'Trayvon Martin could have been me' - Barack Obama

[gl555]

We can't always have what we want.

Having an open mind and hoping desperately something happens are 2 different things altogether.

Its too late for what I had hoped for, a conviction of Zimmerman for manslaughter which he well deserved.

[Jingthing]

So, the Justice Department is going to investigate this case further, to find something, anything, that they could use to convict Zimmerman after a jury found him "not guilty"? I would be nice if they would put this much effort into the many real scandals going on such as the IRS targeting scandal. The American people should be flooding the streets in protest. The gov't gets caught red-handed in all these scandals and heads should roll, but they successfully distract the people by going after Zimmerman? We Americans have many serious issues to be concerned with. It is embarrassing that we - as a nation - can get distracted by such tripe. There was a trial, there was a verdict. Move on. Move on to the real problems facing the nation.

That's naive. This trial has become a national concern and opened up wounds about racial tensions. I wouldn't want the justice department to make a case if they don't have one, but there is nothing wrong with a fresh investigation. It is a SEPARATE matter from the Florida trial. Zimmerman will likely face other trials, such as a civil case, and all of those if they happen will based on the law.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[JLCrab]

From President Obama's White House Briefing Room remarks 19 JUL 2013:

I know that (Attorney General) Eric Holder is reviewing what happened down there, but I think it’s important for people to have some clear expectations here. Traditionally, these are issues of state and local government, the criminal code. And law enforcement is traditionally done at the state and local levels, not at the federal levels.

[Steely Dan]

So, the Justice Department is going to investigate this case further, to find something, anything, that they could use to convict Zimmerman after a jury found him "not guilty"? I would be nice if they would put this much effort into the many real scandals going on such as the IRS targeting scandal. The American people should be flooding the streets in protest. The gov't gets caught red-handed in all these scandals and heads should roll, but they successfully distract the people by going after Zimmerman? We Americans have many serious issues to be concerned with. It is embarrassing that we - as a nation - can get distracted by such tripe. There was a trial, there was a verdict. Move on. Move on to the real problems facing the nation.

That's naive. This trial has become a national concern and opened up wounds about racial tensions. I wouldn't want the justice department to make a case if they don't have one, but there is nothing wrong with a fresh investigation. It is a SEPARATE matter from the Florida trial. Zimmerman will likely face other trials, such as a civil case, and all of those if they happen will based on the law.

The wounds were opened from the outset due to the presidents original ill advised comments that Trayvon Martin could have been his son, all before charges were even brought I might add. Had it not been for the ensuing media s#$t storm the case might have become just another statistic, one of thousands, with no reinforcing of divisions by announcing them, regardless of whether the facts warranted it.

[kikoman]

The story surrounding Trayvon's murder, and the court system of Jim Crow Florida where a great miscarriage of Justice was witnessed by the world. But considering the profiling of Trayvon that ended in his death.

A recommendation that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter, the transfer of Serino to patrol duty, which ended in a 180 degree change from what he wrote on his signed affidavit "There is sufficient evidence to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter." and enter Juror B37 with her agents statement that Juror B37 have already formed an opinion on the case, from evidence not allowed to be presented during the trial.

The Keystone Cops, and Juror B37 make the job a lot easier.

Cheers:

[JLCrab]

From the above comment #221: "The wounds were opened from the outset due to the presidents original ill advised comments that Trayvon Martin could have been his son, all before charges were even brought I might add."

Due to I would say is a bit of a stretch -- the case had already become a media circus well before BHO said anything. The President cautioned his remarks prior to the 'my son' comment by saying that he had:

"to be careful about my statements to make sure that we're not impairing any investigation that's taking place right now."

And as the running gag headline they used to say at the end of the Saturday Night Live Weekend Update in the 1970s: "Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead"

Edited July 21, 2013 by JLCrab

[Jingthing]

From President Obama's White House Briefing Room remarks 19 JUL 2013:

I know that (Attorney General) Eric Holder is reviewing what happened down there, but I think it’s important for people to have some clear expectations here. Traditionally, these are issues of state and local government, the criminal code. And law enforcement is traditionally done at the state and local levels, not at the federal levels.

Of course. Like I have said and Obama knows, they probably will not find grounds to make a civil rights case. But I see no problem in the current charged environment to go through with a fresh investigation. People who don't like ANYTHING with what Obama ever does won't like this either. So what?

There is some potential good stuff to come out of this incident. Hopefully, at least some states will make some changes to the stand your ground laws. Not guaranteed, but possible. To those who say that has nothing to do with this case, that's wrong, as the law behind it was read during the jury instructions.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[kikoman]

Detective Serino in his recommendation to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter, brought up in that report that the latest series of Zimmerman's 911 calls targeted Black males. Its in the report, for those that posted no one have said that racism was involved in the profiling of Trayvon..

Those that feel a moral outrage of my linking Trayvon death, with Emmett Till's murder!

In the words of a great country song "Here's a quarter call someone who cares".

Cheers:

Edited July 21, 2013 by kikoman

[SteeleJoe]

So, the Justice Department is going to investigate this case further, to find something, anything, that they could use to convict Zimmerman after a jury found him "not guilty"? I would be nice if they would put this much effort into the many real scandals going on such as the IRS targeting scandal. The American people should be flooding the streets in protest. The gov't gets caught red-handed in all these scandals and heads should roll, but they successfully distract the people by going after Zimmerman? We Americans have many serious issues to be concerned with. It is embarrassing that we - as a nation - can get distracted by such tripe. There was a trial, there was a verdict. Move on. Move on to the real problems facing the nation.

That's naive. This trial has become a national concern and opened up wounds about racial tensions. I wouldn't want the justice department to make a case if they don't have one, but there is nothing wrong with a fresh investigation. It is a SEPARATE matter from the Florida trial. Zimmerman will likely face other trials, such as a civil case, and all of those if they happen will based on the law.

The wounds were opened from the outset due to the presidents original ill advised comments that Trayvon Martin could have been his son, all before charges were even brought I might add. Had it not been for the ensuing media s#$t storm the case might have become just another statistic, one of thousands, with no reinforcing of divisions by announcing them, regardless of whether the facts warranted it.

My memory is fairly clear on this: Pres. Obama made his comment when it was already a hot issue - hence the statement. National news was already reporting on it and the case had been gathering steam for a month by then; rightly or wrongly, race is the reason. It's ridiculous to claim that race became an issue because of the POTUS.

[JLCrab]

Seminole County is 'Jim Crow Florida' -- that's a good one. Maybe you've never been up to the Florida Panhandle counties near Pensacola.

[kikoman]

Serino also stated in his report, that Zimmerman's action's were not consistent with a person in fear of another.

That Zimmerman's injuries were marginal for a person in fear of his life, adding that Trayvon did not have a physical advantage over Zimmerman (Trayvon's autopsy stated he was 5'11" tall and weight 158 lbs} the police report stated Zimmerman was 5'8'' tall and weight 200 lbs) also a point that did not reflect the ultimate truths that neither combatant had specialized training in hand to hand combat. In light also that Trayvon was unarmed and did not use a weapon,. basicilly he stated it was a fair fight until Zimmerman pulled out his gun.

A That the Truth!

Cheers:

[JLCrab]

So if Detective Serino knew all this stuff why wasn't he called as a prosecution witness at the trial?

[gl555]

That's nice. And why did Serino say in public they didn't have enough evidence to prosecute? This has been brought up various times but you always conveniently ignore it.

Serino also stated in his report, that Zimmerman's action's were not consistent with a person in fear of another.

That Zimmerman's injuries were marginal for a person in fear of his life, adding that Trayvon did not have a physical advantage over Zimmerman (Trayvon's autopsy stated he was 5'11" tall and weight 158 lbs} the police report stated Zimmerman was 5'8'' tall and weight 200 lbs) also a point that did not reflect the ultimate truths that neither combatant had specialized training in hand to hand combat. In light also that Trayvon was unarmed and did not use a weapon,. basicilly he stated it was a fair fight until Zimmerman pulled out his gun.

A That the Truth!

Cheers:

[kikoman]

in reference to the Florida Justice system, in the Trayvon Martin killing, a sad analysis of the system is that of the 307 convicts freed from prison (13) convict freed by the Innocence Project were from the state of Florida.

Cheers:

[kikoman]

DNA experts stated that Trayvon's DNA was not found on the grips of Zimmerman's gun and was not found under the unarmed teen's fingernails. Which was not consistent with Zimmerman's version of what happened he said there was a fight over the possession of the gun, yet no DNA evidence was found on Trayvon that even remotely suggested his version was true,.

Cheers:

[JLCrab]

in reference to the Florida Justice system, in the Trayvon Martin killing, a sad analysis of the system is that of the 307 convicts freed from prison (13) convict freed by the Innocence Project were from the state of Florida.

Cheers:

Well Florida has a population of about 20 million and the USA now is about 320 million -- so that's about 4% of the total of those freed Innocence Project from Florida versus the 6% of the total US population from Florida so you could say Florida is ahead of the game.

¡Cheers!

Well GEE if those DNA experts had a chance to testify I guess GZ would have been bound & shackled and sent off to the hoosgao.

Edited July 21, 2013 by JLCrab

[Loptr]

Seminole County is 'Jim Crow Florida' -- that's a good one. Maybe you've never been up to the Florida Panhandle counties near Pensacola.

I just love when people make sweeping statements and draw points of contention over things they know absolutely, f'all about. I know I should not be surprised though, this is Thai Visa after all. The home of every expert on every topic on the planet.

[FDog]

DNA experts stated that Trayvon's DNA was not found on the grips of Zimmerman's gun and was not found under the unarmed teen's fingernails. Which was not consistent with Zimmerman's version of what happened he said there was a fight over the possession of the gun, yet no DNA evidence was found on Trayvon that even remotely suggested his version was true,.

Cheers:

You do realise that this case has already been to court and a verdict rendered don't you?

No point trying to act the prosecutor, it's done and dusted.

[Jingthing]

DNA experts stated that Trayvon's DNA was not found on the grips of Zimmerman's gun and was not found under the unarmed teen's fingernails. Which was not consistent with Zimmerman's version of what happened he said there was a fight over the possession of the gun, yet no DNA evidence was found on Trayvon that even remotely suggested his version was true,.

Cheers:

You do realise that this case has already been to court and a verdict rendered don't you?

No point trying to act the prosecutor, it's done and dusted.

Not really.

This case will be discussed and analyzed far into the future.

[Loptr]

"Trayvon Martin could have been me".

When I read this quote made by Obama, the first thought through my mind was, that was big of him. Admitting that he assaulted unknown people in his youth. He is lucky that he is still alive today if that were his MO as a teenager. He admitted in his own book that he smoked a little dope and did a little blow as a kid, so the similarity to Trayvon Martin is there. Now we know he assaulted others too.

The black community is trying to make Martin into some kind of martyr, when in fact he is nothing but a dead thug.

How about this attention getting headline this past week. Why is no one morally outraged over this crime?

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2013/07/14/black-teens-murder-white-baby-for-the-fun-of-it/

Black Teens Murder White Baby For The Fun Of It

Brunswick, GA has been rocked by the unprovoked hate crime murder of a 13 month old baby. The baby was shot right in front of it’s mother by two black teenage thugs. The shooter is believed to be between the ages of 13 and 15. His accomplice was even younger. The mother was also shot in the leg.

Skin color made victims a target…

Hypocrites make me want to puke. So drag your bleeding hearts back to the ghetto where they belong.

The race-baiters should have a field day with this post. And to those that did not grow up with this in their back yard, you have no concept of what you are talking about.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Loptr

[HeijoshinCool]

News from the States wasn't of much interest to me when I lived there, and still isn't. In other words, I'm not taking sides because I don't have sufficient information.

But I have read a few articles on this case, including Obama's comments, and I have yet to find any reliable source that provides any insight as to what Zimmerman did or said that indicates he picked on Martin because of his race.

So I'm wondering, is there a shred of reasonable evidence of any kind that race was involved? Was it introduced at trial?

[Jingthing]

News from the States wasn't of much interest to me when I lived there, and still isn't. In other words, I'm not taking sides because I don't have sufficient information.

But I have read a few articles on this case, including Obama's comments, and I have yet to find any reliable source that provides any insight as to what Zimmerman did or said that indicates he picked on Martin because of his race.

So I'm wondering, is there a shred of reasonable evidence of any kind that race was involved? Was it introduced at trial?

The killer had a long history of repeated calls to 911 about young black men and boys. Generally, false alarms.

There had been a string of burglaries in his neighborhood and my understanding is the perps were generally young black males.

The killer saw another black boy "stranger" and jumped to conclusions.

It's profiling. Some may say justified. Is that racism? Who knows. Profiling is not a crime at least from a civilian. Racist thought is not a crime. MURDER is. The reason Zimmerman will be despised for the rest of his life, and rightly so, is the inconvenient corpse that he created, and so many people don't believe he HAD to create.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[gl555]

If there were a string of burglaries in Zimmerman's neighborhood and it were committed by young Asian males, Zimmerman would have been looking out for Asian males behaving suspiciously.

Yes to people like you and most blacks, he will be despised. To others, probably not.

News from the States wasn't of much interest to me when I lived there, and still isn't. In other words, I'm not taking sides because I don't have sufficient information.

But I have read a few articles on this case, including Obama's comments, and I have yet to find any reliable source that provides any insight as to what Zimmerman did or said that indicates he picked on Martin because of his race.

So I'm wondering, is there a shred of reasonable evidence of any kind that race was involved? Was it introduced at trial?

The killer had a long history of repeated calls to 911 about young black men and boys. Generally, false alarms.

There had been a string of burglaries in his neighborhood and my understanding is the perps were generally young black males.

The killer saw another black boy "stranger" and jumped to conclusions.

It's profiling. Some may say justified. Is that racism? Who knows. Profiling is not a crime at least from a civilian. Racist thought is not a crime. MURDER is. The reason Zimmerman will be despised for the rest of his life, and rightly so, is the inconvenient corpse that he created, and so many people don't believe he HAD to create.

[kikoman]

Those who repeatedly try to minimize the value of the intensive year of MMA combat training Zimmerman had are either lying or know nothing about self protection, Real street fighting is completely different then trained combat fighting, you not only learn combat Techniques of kicking and striking, but you learn the weak points of the human body and how to disable an opponent with attacking certain parts of the body, you learn the specialized fighting skill, which many street fighters do not know.

An all female jury was advantages to the defense as female at less exposed to violence and most have never been involve in a fight and it would be easier to lead them in the direction the defense want them to go.

Also that is where Juror B37 enters the picture she has been referred to as the acquittal juror because she had all ready formed an opinion that Zimmerman should not have been arrested. In that position she would try to influence the (3) jurors that favor conviction,.

Cheers:

Edited July 21, 2013 by Scott

[JLCrab]

I would say this is a more accurate (AP) account of the 'unprovoked' shooting of a baby in Brunswick Georgia.

3 JULY 2013 Police say Elkins (the mother of one of the accused) and another family member tried to get rid of the gun that her son, 18-year-old De’Marquise Elkins, used to shoot 13-month-old Antonio Santiago in the face. Police say the boy was shot after the teenager and an accomplice tried to rob the child’s mother.

Edited July 21, 2013 by JLCrab

[mopar71]

I've watched Obama's remarks and read it (link below). I'd like to say that it's not bad at all. The headlines with "Trayvon Martin could have been me" does it a disservice. It's a 17 minute number and trying to sum it up in those 6 words is misleading.

I think both sides of this debate should listen & watch the whole thing. He makes a lot of good points and observations.

Maybe there could be a thread dedicated to his remarks where members can discuss the points he brought up? Oh, wait, never mind.

- http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/07/19/obama_trayvon_martin_could_have_been_me_35_years_ago.html

[chuckd]

News from the States wasn't of much interest to me when I lived there, and still isn't. In other words, I'm not taking sides because I don't have sufficient information.

But I have read a few articles on this case, including Obama's comments, and I have yet to find any reliable source that provides any insight as to what Zimmerman did or said that indicates he picked on Martin because of his race.

So I'm wondering, is there a shred of reasonable evidence of any kind that race was involved? Was it introduced at trial?

The short answer to your question is...No!

[SteeleJoe]

I've watched Obama's remarks and read it (link below). I'd like to say that it's not bad at all. The headlines with "Trayvon Martin could have been me" does it a disservice. It's a 17 minute number and trying to sum it up in those 6 words is misleading.

I think both sides of this debate should listen & watch the whole thing. He makes a lot of good points and observations.

Maybe there could be a thread dedicated to his remarks where members can discuss the points he brought up? Oh, wait, never mind.

- http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/07/19/obama_trayvon_martin_could_have_been_me_35_years_ago.html

Wow. At last, the all too rare attempt at objectivity.

And a great point very well made, in the closing.

Good post.

[chuckd]

Those who repeatedly try to minimize the value of the intensive year of MMA combat training Zimmerman had are either lying or know nothing about self protection, Real street fighting is completely different then trained combat fighting, you not only learn combat Techniques of kicking and striking, but you learn the weak points of the human body and how to disable an opponent with attacking certain parts of the body, you learn the specialized fighting skill, which many street fighters do not know.

An all female jury was advantages to the defense as female at less exposed to violence and most have never been involve in a fight and it would be easier to lead them in the direction the defense want them to go.

Also that is where Juror B37 enters the picture she has been referred to as the acquittal juror because she had all ready formed an opinion that Zimmerman should not have been arrested. In that position she would try to influence the (3) jurors that favor conviction,.

Cheers:

The testimony given by his MMA trainer was that Zimmerman was not very athletic and not a good student of fighting.

In other words, he couldn't defend himself very well...according to his testimony.

[JLCrab]

Since it seems there are persons on this and other topics with a plethora of information on this case, they might better spend their efforts in informing the US Department of Justice with these nuggets. USDOJ has set-up an email address for those who have 'tips' on the case:

//e-mail removed as per forum rules//

Since this is in Florida I'm sure a bunch of psychics and para-normals will be those most likely to respond.