Condo management not applying my bill payments

[smutcakes]

I would say its incompetence more than anything else. If you have a management team looking to make a bit of cash there are far easier and more profitbale avenues to pursue, with little realistic chance of being caught.

It could also be a genuine case where they try to wait until a specific date to go and pay everything together, so it is not necessary for one staff member to being constantly going to pay the bills.- perhaps the date they go is around your monthly bill cut off date.

As someone mentioned, just pay the bills yourself.

I don't buy the incompetence angle. We're talking about a total of four bills paid by me, and none of them applied to two different service providers over a period of two months. Also, the bills should be paid by the condo association within a reasonable amount of time following my payment to them. Two months is ridiculous by anyone's standards. I suppose there is an outside chance of abject laziness, but I think they are up to no good and trying to take advantage of me. I couldn't say if it is because I'm non Thai or not. The large majority of the condo residents are Japanese.

I'm going to speak with the owner of the apartment later today to see what his take on this is. He is Thai and speaks fluent English. Among other questions for him, I'm going to find out who the owner of the building is, and if possible contact him/her.

As for naming the condo building in question, I'll wait on that until I gather more info. If I'm not satisfied with answers and explanations, I'll post the name of the building. No sense in harming the innocent, assuming there are any.

Your post is very confusing, do you live in a condominium or an apartment? If a condominium, how can you find the owner of the building? there is no owner. If you have an owner you live in an apartment building where the management company is employed directly by the owner- in this type of set up I would say corruption would be more prevalent.

Do you have a condo association? (if you live in a condominium) I presume you mean management? By the sounds of things you seem a little confused yourself, and perhaps are mixing up whose responsibility it is to do what, this may be one of the issues here.

I'm not confused about the essentials of the situation.

As usual, this thread has been semi hijacked by posters with one agenda or another.

Knock yourselves out.

People have given you a multitude of potential reasons, but you seemingly just one to disregard them- perhaps you already have a preconceived notion and if so what do you want people to respond. Of your 3 ideas, only number 1 is conceivable. As if a few hundred baht for you is going to assist cash flow to any noticeable amount, and your other that they want to cause a problem for a farang. The only reason i presume they may do this, is that you are a complete pain in the ass/rude, or like this thread are not listening to what they are telling you.

[tolsti]

I think this just underlines the necessity to employ a professional company as your Juristic person and building management company. Yes, their fees may be higher but you have full accountability. Monthly budgetary expenditure displayed on your notice board and circulated to all owners by email, regular Owners committee meetings with the agenda and minutes recorded at the Land Dept to ensure that the Law is being followed and a realistic CAM fee.

They do however need to be strong on non-payers or you end up with the OPs situation. A multi-national management company will have no qualms in cutting off unpaid electric/water/ CAM fee owners and are within the law to do so.

The latter is so important. As an original off plan owner you might have been attracted by a low CAM fee. But in reality in the beginning it is the developer who sets it...... as a sales tool. One year in or more and you get a more realistic CAM fee. One that actually reflects the cost of maintaining your building.

Individual 3rd party insurance is also very important.... if your appt floods and damages the one below. A decent CJP will ensure that individual unit owners pay this insurance. They have great bargaining powers when presenting a whole buildings worth of units for contents and 3rd party insurance while still allowing individual owners to insure to whatever level required for contents.

If you are an owner of an appt in building which is registered as a condominium you are entitled to attend every AGM that is held and to also put yourself forward as a member of the owners committee and if selected to attend their regular meetings. (all owners receive the meeting minutes anyway). The CJP cannot be a member and has to follow the decisions of the committee (as long as they are lawful).

If you don't participate then you can't complain!!!!!

[Delight]

The elements of the process at your condo are all wrong.

The management have a brief to take care of the common area.

Dealing with the private business affairs of a co –owner or a leaseholder is strictly off territory.

It gets worse when your private monies are mixed up with condo money

The process fails there.

[jimbeam1]

Pay the bills yourself and avoid the worry about if they are being paid or not, simple answer but I would not trust a condo association, if you are being cut off then the bills are not being paid.

+1 Stay in control yourself for peace of mind.

jb1

[Postmaster]

Domestic house/condo Bull Payments are YOUR responsibility irrespective of any formal or informal arrangements you may have made with the condo managers or office people. If they assist you it is by grace and favour only. Still it is up to you to ensure these are paid.

[Crossy]

OK people, let's keep it civil and within the rules.

A number of off topic posts removed.

[Maestro]

...At my condo, they have been incapable of collecting the HOA fees for many years...

What is HOA? www.acronymfinder.com does not give me a definition that would make sense in the context of your post.

[Maestro]

...to ensure that the Law is being followed and a realistic CAM fee...

What is CAM. acronymfinder.com does not give a definition that would make sense in the context of your post.

[Maestro]

...The CJP cannot be a member and has to follow the decisions of the committee...

For the benefit of the readers, with CJP the poster probably means Condominium Juristic Person.

[OxfordWill]

Obviously it is deplorable that no English is available and I suggest you write a strongly worded letter

[dighambara]

Never trust a Thai to do anything for you that involves money or your passport / ID.

Many Thais are honest, kind, generous and lovely people and many are the opposite - it is not always easy to tell the difference and foreigners most often come across the latter kind.

Added to which as a foreigner you will seen as stupid in the eyes of many Thai people because they are indoctrinated from birth that Thailand is the best country in the world and the centre of it and everything Thai is wonderful - you are not Thai therefore you are stupid.

Plenty of other countries do the same thing but many of those in the west have educated populations who can by and large see through at least some of the BS as they grow into adults. Thais unfortunately do not have the benefit of education to a large extent and as a result are unable to think for themselves therefore behaving as children throughout their lives.

What an awful post- i think you are mixing with the wrong elements of Thai society, or your attitude towards them is bringing the worst out of them.

I've been in and out of Thailand since the 60's. I love this country and of course, all of my children are Thai, but 'slipper' was very much on the mark. My wife's entire family are mostly just big children. Give my M-I-L 1000 Baht and the next day she will ask for more and not know where the other went.

[tomyummer]

"An employee noted my receipts, called True, and service restored within a half hour."

That would suggest that the problem had to do with True. If True actually had not received the payments they would not have restored the service immediately just because someone phoned them. They'd want some cash and probably charge for restoring service.

What happened was that the condo admin person probably paid one month dues to keep the account open. TRUE then turned the service back on, but there is still two payments owed.

What the condo management (juristic) is doing is holding all his cash up until they get the 3rd warning and then paying one month to keep the account open. They are basically sitting on two months of paid up utility fees perpetually. The tenant should pay for his utilities directly after first getting records from the electricity company and TRUE to see what's been paid up so far. Get the owner of the condo involved too. Deduct the amount owed from the rent and let the owner deal with the condo management in getting a refund of utilities already paid.

The 20-baht service fee is definitely not earned.

[belg]

get a thai gf or wife...she will handle ALL of your money

[jellydog]

"An employee noted my receipts, called True, and service restored within a half hour."

That would suggest that the problem had to do with True. If True actually had not received the payments they would not have restored the service immediately just because someone phoned them. They'd want some cash and probably charge for restoring service.

What happened was that the condo admin person probably paid one month dues to keep the account open. TRUE then turned the service back on, but there is still two payments owed.

What the condo management (juristic) is doing is holding all his cash up until they get the 3rd warning and then paying one month to keep the account open. They are basically sitting on two months of paid up utility fees perpetually. The tenant should pay for his utilities directly after first getting records from the electricity company and TRUE to see what's been paid up so far. Get the owner of the condo involved too. Deduct the amount owed from the rent and let the owner deal with the condo management in getting a refund of utilities already paid.

The 20-baht service fee is definitely not earned.

Dead on. The owner got involved at my request and in my opinion they gave him the runaround. I think your explanation is exactly on the money.

I'll take care of the bills without the middle man condo management involvement. That should solve the issue.

[tolsti]

...to ensure that the Law is being followed and a realistic CAM fee...

What is CAM. acronymfinder.com does not give a definition that would make sense in the context of your post.

Common Area Management fee

Edited July 29, 2013 by tolsti

[Minnehaha]

whose name is on the electric bill?

whose name is on your receipt for paying electric bill?

If the owners name is on the electric and the True contracts the bills will be issued in their names, not yours.

Is it possible there was confusion because the kids accepting your payment gave you a receipt for payment in your name and then it did not get matched later because they did not have an original bill to pay against, which was in the owners name? Or maybe the girl who took the money was quitting in a week and disappeared with cash.

You should ask to see the juristic person and have a conversation. Make small talk and explain you are confused and do not understand something. Bring a Thai speaker, for translation and to run interference. Confronting people directly is never a good idea and should always be avoided in Thailand. Particularly if you do not speak Thai. It always makes things easier to have a 3rd party neutral to diffuse the accusations.

The bills are in my name. Nobody has quit the office. All the same people. And, for what it is worth, they don't on the whole seem a very personable bunch. As if they are doing you a favor by talking with you. Somewhere between haughty and dismissive.

It just occurred to me - is paying peoples personal bills part of their job? In my building, we each pay our own personal bills. However, if we are away or in a bind our juristic person will accept the cash and send a messenger to do it - happily in my case. But it is not standard procedure.

Maybe their surly attitude stems from this kind of context.

Just a thought.

[jellydog]

whose name is on the electric bill?

whose name is on your receipt for paying electric bill?

If the owners name is on the electric and the True contracts the bills will be issued in their names, not yours.

Is it possible there was confusion because the kids accepting your payment gave you a receipt for payment in your name and then it did not get matched later because they did not have an original bill to pay against, which was in the owners name? Or maybe the girl who took the money was quitting in a week and disappeared with cash.

You should ask to see the juristic person and have a conversation. Make small talk and explain you are confused and do not understand something. Bring a Thai speaker, for translation and to run interference. Confronting people directly is never a good idea and should always be avoided in Thailand. Particularly if you do not speak Thai. It always makes things easier to have a 3rd party neutral to diffuse the accusations.

The bills are in my name. Nobody has quit the office. All the same people. And, for what it is worth, they don't on the whole seem a very personable bunch. As if they are doing you a favor by talking with you. Somewhere between haughty and dismissive.

It just occurred to me - is paying peoples personal bills part of their job? In my building, we each pay our own personal bills. However, if we are away or in a bind our juristic person will accept the cash and send a messenger to do it - happily in my case. But it is not standard procedure.

Maybe their surly attitude stems from this kind of context.

Just a thought.

Its part of their job because they charge a $20baht service fee.

[Minnehaha]

whose name is on the electric bill?

whose name is on your receipt for paying electric bill?

If the owners name is on the electric and the True contracts the bills will be issued in their names, not yours.

Is it possible there was confusion because the kids accepting your payment gave you a receipt for payment in your name and then it did not get matched later because they did not have an original bill to pay against, which was in the owners name? Or maybe the girl who took the money was quitting in a week and disappeared with cash.

You should ask to see the juristic person and have a conversation. Make small talk and explain you are confused and do not understand something. Bring a Thai speaker, for translation and to run interference. Confronting people directly is never a good idea and should always be avoided in Thailand. Particularly if you do not speak Thai. It always makes things easier to have a 3rd party neutral to diffuse the accusations.

The bills are in my name. Nobody has quit the office. All the same people. And, for what it is worth, they don't on the whole seem a very personable bunch. As if they are doing you a favor by talking with you. Somewhere between haughty and dismissive.

It just occurred to me - is paying peoples personal bills part of their job? In my building, we each pay our own personal bills. However, if we are away or in a bind our juristic person will accept the cash and send a messenger to do it - happily in my case. But it is not standard procedure.

Maybe their surly attitude stems from this kind of context.

Just a thought.

Its part of their job because they charge a $20baht service fee.

so how did it work out? did you find out what was going on? was it a conspiracy to defraud you or perhaps they just dont like you? has it happened to anyone else in the building? if it is only you, it would be curious wouldn't it.

[samran]

two words:

Internet Banking

[jellydog]

The owner got involved and he received the runaround. See tomyummer's post for what I think has been happening.

I'll arrange to pay the bills directly. I see no sense in furthering the "investigation". The other party in question is not interested in playing ball.

Lesson learned and moving on !

[Billy The Kid]

I am a owner of two condos, Never trust a condo management. Pay the bills yourself. Most important is keep all the old bills just in case the management trying out the scams of non payable bills. Done to me last year but luckily my tenant had kept his bills up to date and showed the old bill to the management, sorry sorry is what he said. So be careful lads.