Thailand and the Vietnam War

[theblether]

The Communist Party of Thailand, 1960's and 1970's resistance......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_in_Thailand

As mentioned by member Chiang Mai earlier, the Phetchabun Mountains were a Communist stronghold, I was down that way the other week and it's quite spectacular. It would have been a nightmare to attack by land......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phetchabun_mountains

I'm led to believe that the insurgency started in 1965 and lasted through until 1984, long after the Vietnam War ended. When you look at the terrain you can see why, I'll look further into this but again if anyone has any more details please post them.

Edited August 4, 2013 by theblether

[theblether]

Here's a 1965 video that was filmed by Thais for the domestic market, it was then translated and re-released in English. This is important in that we get an insight into the thoughts and concerns of the Thai government at that time. I suppose you could call it propaganda in it's own way, but stick with it, there's some compelling images and thoughts in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9hQFtGsKzM

[theblether]

This is an interesting link where a Chinese soldier talks about leaving China for Burma, eventually settling in Thailand and assisting the Thai government in fighting the Hill Tribe communists. The interview is entirely in Chinese but it's scripted in English on the link.

This shows the extent to which the Thai government was being challenged by Communism within its borders. The soldier, Zhan Dening, explains that he started fighting for Thailand in 1972.

http://shanghaiist.com/2012/06/22/china-forgotten-army.php

[theblether]

This is an interesting video about the Hmong people's effort to assist the US. Now this clip refers to the Laos Hmong but we all know the Hmong are transnational. Many had to escape and pour into Thai refugee camps......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8YFiEXxi7M

[TPI]

Thanyaburimac, I have friends fathers here in Australia who served in Vietnam. 1 in particular has real trouble with Asians in general since the war particularly the Vietnamese here in Australia, let alone living in SE Asia. Now I assume you live in Thailand mac?I'm curious, What made you come to the decision to live there? I know Thailand isn't Vietnam and war affects everyone differently, but I would of thought living far away as possible from the place that would seem to remind you of the war and I know Thailand was an r and r location, to me it seems like the last place I would want to live besides Vietnam itself. Doesn't it remind you of the war?

In fact this question I'd like to put out there to anyone that is in the same situation...

Everyone was affected in different ways, I thought that it was the greatest thing to have happened to me...ever! I don't know how anyone could have come out of VN with a negative attitude about the Vietnamese people? They must be the toughest people on earth, they have fought and beaten the Chinese, the french and the Americans, they are cultured and friendly, if your friend had a bad experience then I'm sorry for him.

Many ex-servicemen have gone to live in Vietnam because of the positive feeling about the place, most, I think, went back initially to give something back and then realised that they were the only ones with a feeling of guilt! Who could reasonably live in the West after spending any time in Asia?

[Cobalt60]

I wonder, did anyone consider that there must have been many many thousands of innocent Vietnamese that didn't want the will of the West imposed upon them nor communism and were just wishing for a peaceful existence.

Not carpet bombing, chemical attacks and napalm etc.

Governments start wars, the winners write the history.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JDGRUEN]

"We should remember that US operations were only allowed in Thailand on the basis that returning planes carried no live munitions. It is for this reason that Laos and in particular, the Plain of Jars, is the most heavily bombed areas on the planet as returning US planes offloaded their bombs before landing."

I didn't know that.

Thanks chiang mai.

Were planes leaving Thailand able to carry live munitions? I presume not. I'm struggling with the logistics.

Oddly yes they were, presumably the munitions were either brought into the country in the first place by ship or were purchased in Thailand, dunno.

The U.S. Navy had a Deep Water Port at Sattahip where heavy ordinance arrived by ship. Nearby U.S. Army Engineer and Transportation units offloaded the bombs, rockets, ammunition and trucked it to nearby Utapao (U.S. Air Force Base), northwest to Takhli AFB, up to Don Mueang AFB, north to Korat AFB, Ubon AFB, Udon AFB and Nakhon Phanon AFB.

[JDGRUEN]

Coming back to the Thai involvement in the war, it's recognized that Thailand got an infrastructure and economic boost from the US involvement. Money flowed throughout many regions of the country, however the great unknown is did the fact that Thailand became an ally encourage enemy forces to raise communist sympathies in the country? Or was it going to happen anyway?

These insurgencies went on for years and effectively made parts of Thailand ungovernable. If any member would like to add they're knowledge to this aspect of the impact on Thailand that would be great. I don't know enough about it.

From my readings, the Chinese communist sponsored efforts to subvert the Thai political and governmental systems beginning long before the American Buildup in Thailand. The North Vietnamese were enlisted in this effort at one point. There is quite a bit of published documentation available on the Web on this subject. I recently read one very long document going all the way back to Chinese Communist Revolution as it relates to activities in Thailand.

[JDGRUEN]

"We should remember that US operations were only allowed in Thailand on the basis that returning planes carried no live munitions. It is for this reason that Laos and in particular, the Plain of Jars, is the most heavily bombed areas on the planet as returning US planes offloaded their bombs before landing."

I didn't know that.

Thanks chiang mai.

Were planes leaving Thailand able to carry live munitions? I presume not. I'm struggling with the logistics.

A heavy munitions and ordinance logistics system existed in Thailand during the Vietnam. And yes the aircraft left Thailand on the way to Vietnam and Laos fully loaded with bombs - hundreds and hundreds of sorties daily .. from at least six large scale U.S. Air Force Bases.

I posted some of the information already ---

[SinglePot]

"We should remember that US operations were only allowed in Thailand on the basis that returning planes carried no live munitions. It is for this reason that Laos and in particular, the Plain of Jars, is the most heavily bombed areas on the planet as returning US planes offloaded their bombs before landing."

I didn't know that.

Thanks chiang mai.

Were planes leaving Thailand able to carry live munitions? I presume not. I'm struggling with the logistics.

A heavy munitions and ordinance logistics system existed in Thailand during the Vietnam. And yes the aircraft left Thailand on the way to Vietnam and Laos fully loaded with bombs - hundreds and hundreds of sorties daily .. from at least six large scale U.S. Air Force Bases.

I posted some of the information already ---

Thanks. Sounds like I asked a very naive question.

[JDGRUEN]

By 1969 Thailand had 12,000 soldiers in Vietnam.......

http://www.vietnamwar.net/Thailand.htm

Part of my duty with the 46th. Special Forces Company (Airborne) for the year I was in Thailand in 1967-1968 was a temporary deployment (two months or so ) to Hua Hin to help in the premission training program of the Thai Troops who had volunteered to go to serve in Vietnam.

Edited August 4, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[JDGRUEN]

Coming back to the Thai involvement in the war, it's recognized that Thailand got an infrastructure and economic boost from the US involvement. Money flowed throughout many regions of the country, however the great unknown is did the fact that Thailand became an ally encourage enemy forces to raise communist sympathies in the country? Or was it going to happen anyway?

These insurgencies went on for years and effectively made parts of Thailand ungovernable. If any member would like to add they're knowledge to this aspect of the impact on Thailand that would be great. I don't know enough about it.

From my readings, the Chinese communist sponsored efforts to subvert the Thai political and governmental systems beginning long before the American Buildup in Thailand. The North Vietnamese were enlisted in this effort at one point. There is quite a bit of published documentation available on the Web on this subject. I recently read one very long document going all the way back to Chinese Communist Revolution as it relates to activities in Thailand.

Here is the link I was referring ... the story of communist influence in Thailand predates the American presence and buildup in the Vietnam War by many many years ...

http://links.org.au/node/1247

"During the 1920s when Chinese influence on Thai communists was taking hold..."

[JDGRUEN]

U.S. Army Special Forces presence in Thailand 1966-1971

46th. Special Forces Company (Airborne) 1966--1971

Oct. 1966- Mar. 1967 Company D (Augmented) 1st. Special Forces Group (Airborne)
(Predecessor to 46th. SFCA)

- Headquarters - Camp Pawai, Lopburi, Thailand

- "B" Team Level Training Camps: B410 (4610) Camp Nam Phung Dam (originally
designated Camp 'Honky' or 'Hunky') in Phu Phan area near Sakon Nakhon,

-B-420 (4620) Pak Chang/Nong Takoo -Remote A-Det

-B-430 (4630) Camp Ban Kachong (Trang).

(Company D, 1st. Special Forces redesignated 46th. Special Forces Company (Airborne) Apr. 1967)

Apr. 1967 - Mar. 1970 46th. Special Forces Company (Airborne) 1st. Special Forces
Headquarters: The Royal Thai Army Special Warfare Center, Fort Narai, Lopburi, Thailand. APO 96261

Detachments and TDY Locations for elements of the 46th. SFCA, Thailand (APOs TBD)

- Camp Nam Phung Dam B-4610, A-4611, A-4612, A-4613 (Phun Phan area somewhat near Sakon Nakhon, Thailand)

- Camp Nong Takoo B-4620, A-4621, A-4622, A-4623 (Near Pak Chang, Thailand)

- Camp Ban Kachong B-4630, A-4631, A4633 (Trang, Thailand)

- Det. C-4602, B-4640, B-4650 Kanchanaburi, Thailand

- Det. C-4601 Sattahip, Thailand

- Camp Chaw Haw B-4640, A-4614, A4624, A-4634 (exact location TBD)

- Extended TDY operation - temporary camp - B-4650, A-46x3, A4632 Nan, Thailand

- Other 46th. SFCA TDY Personnel Assignments, Chiang Klang, Khao Yoi, Hua Hin, Khon Kaen, Lomsak, Klong Nga, Thailand

- Other Special Forces: In Thailand - SF Training Team Camp Nam Phong District, N.N.E. of Khon Kaen, Thailand about 25K

- U.S. Marine Air Base (10, 000 ft. Runway) - Marine Aircraft Group 15, 1st. Marine Aircraft Wing.
Location: Royal Thai Airbase, Nam Phong District, N.N.E. of Khon Kaen, Thailand about 25K

April 1970. The 46th. SFCA was inactivated - then reactivated as United States Army Special Forces, Thailand.

- 46th SFCA Aviation Section - Helicopter Detachment - 1971 - Camp Phung Dam (Phun Phan area somewhat near Sakon Nakhon,

Edited August 4, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[JDGRUEN]

USAF units in Thailand during the Vietnam (American) War - A History Lesson

http://thailandaviation.blogspot.com/2010/05/usaf-units-in-thailand-during-vietnam.html


This is very good documentation on the U.S. Air Force Presence in Thailand during the Vietnam War

[Tywais]

USAF units in Thailand during the Vietnam (American) War - A History Lesson

http://thailandaviation.blogspot.com/2010/05/usaf-units-in-thailand-during-vietnam.html

This is very good documentation on the U.S. Air Force Presence in Thailand during the Vietnam War

I thought when I got assigned to SEA I was finally getting out of SAC - no such luck ended up in the 4285th Strategic Wing (SAC). Still, better than the missile silos on the plains of North Dakota, the main reason I volunteered for Vietnam/Thailand.

Operation Arc Light

Operation Arc Light was the 1965 deployment of B-52 heavy bombers to Guam. The B-52 bombers were directed at:

• Targets in South Vietnam not requiring deep penetration of Laos, Cambodia or North Vietnam.

• Targets in North Vietnam that were approved by Washington 24 hours in advance.

• Targets in eastern Laos with the approval of CINCPAC, CINCSAC and the U.S. Ambassador to Laos.

• Targets in the remainder of Laos that were approved by Washington 24 hours in advance.

By 1969, about 65 percent of all Arc Light sorties would originate from U-Tapao. In 1972 there were 54 B-52 aircraft stationed in Thailand, with missions commonly flown in three-plane formations known as "cells". B-52's were also employed in a tactical role when ground units in Vietnam in heavy combat requested fire support.

...

Other missions of USAF at the U-Tapao included supplying other U.S. occupied Thai installations with equipment and materiel; support of the U.S. Army, Navy and Coast Guard units in the area; and jurisdiction for what has become known as the Sattahip complex. This complex included a nine-berth deep water port, a Coast Guard LORAN station, three U.S. transportation units, and approximately 10,000 American servicemen and Thai nationals.

More in this pdf article on Utapao's history and involvement - Historical Brief

[JDGRUEN]

Coming back to the Thai involvement in the war, it's recognized that Thailand got an infrastructure and economic boost from the US involvement. Money flowed throughout many regions of the country, however the great unknown is did the fact that Thailand became an ally encourage enemy forces to raise communist sympathies in the country? Or was it going to happen anyway?

These insurgencies went on for years and effectively made parts of Thailand ungovernable. If any member would like to add they're knowledge to this aspect of the impact on Thailand that would be great. I don't know enough about it.

From my readings, the Chinese communist sponsored efforts to subvert the Thai political and governmental systems beginning long before the American Buildup in Thailand. The North Vietnamese were enlisted in this effort at one point. There is quite a bit of published documentation available on the Web on this subject. I recently read one very long document going all the way back to Chinese Communist Revolution as it relates to activities in Thailand.

Here is the link I was referring ... the story of communist influence in Thailand predates the American presence and buildup in the Vietnam War by many many years ...

http://links.org.au/node/1247

"During the 1920s when Chinese influence on Thai communists was taking hold..."

Another link with essentially the same information - but perhaps better written ...

http://www.history.army.mil/books/Vietnam/allied/ch02.htm

[Thanyaburi Mac]

This video includes the Thai "volunteers" who went to Laos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdROxwo_2NM

Mac

[chiang mai]

Phew, some remarkable stuff comming out here.

[JDGRUEN]

This video includes the Thai "volunteers" who went to Laos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdROxwo_2NM

Mac

The Thai Soldiers were volunteers - I have a link that speaks to that ... I will find it and post very soon ....

[simple1]

By 1969 Thailand had 12,000 soldiers in Vietnam.......

http://www.vietnamwar.net/Thailand.htm

Part of my duty with the 46th. Special Forces Company (Airborne) for the year I was in Thailand in 1967-1968 was a temporary deployment (two months or so ) to Hua Hin to help in the premission training program of the Thai Troops who had volunteered to go to serve in Vietnam.

I has read that the Thai armed forces were very tough & effective combat troops, do you have comments. Were Thai troops involved in any war crimes, as the South Koreans were alledged to have done so?

[ESDinBKK]

I'm 70 now, and remember the Thailand of the mid 60's. I came here first time around late 65, as a young army lt. On tdy. They were just starting to build the various installations to support the war.i came back in 67 and was stationed at Camp Vayama just north and west of Sattahip. I was s3 for US Army SpecialTroops there at that time. About aklick away was a large ASP storing the big bombs needed by the b-52's out of Utapao. A mile from the ASP was a DeLong pier that the ammo ships tied up and off loaded the 500-200 lb bombs onto the Old Thai teak trucks with all the silver and stainless steel decorations to bring them good luck. They sure needed it, as you know how Thais like to load trucks. Every day the roads were loaded with these trucks delivering their loads from Sattahip to Utapao. There was also New Port in that near area for delivery of the other classes of supplies and delivered to the 9 Log warehouses located between Sattahip and Utapao. Outside the base of Utapao there wasn't much. I remember a bowling alley and the Swan Hotel. East a few kicks was Kilo Sip, a bunch of natty bars, with girls.

We spent a lot of after hours time with the Thai Navy. Seems they had a party at least three times a week, with plenty of singing, booze, and food. I remember the CO was special Capt Damrong, who loved to sing. We got along great along with his friend special Capt Siri, commander of the recruit training base just north of Sattahip. NiAmphur Porn of Sattahip liked to get us young officers accustomed to a strong vile Chinese whiskey he loved. Will talk of Pattaya later feel a nap coming on.

[ESDinBKK]

During the 67-68 time Pattaya was a sleepy little town. One road, the beach road. The Nipa lodge was the place to stay, a two story, I think hotel with a nice bar and dining room. There was another hotel around the recalled the Pattaya Beach hotel, I think a 3 story affair, but not very nice. The beaches and water was very clean and diving was great. There was a place called Barbarose , I think just past the huge tree that was smack in the middle of beach road. Good seafood and you could fill your tanks there. The US had a small px and snack bar not far from the Nipa Lodge, JUSMAG had a few bungalows and dispensary next to the snack bar. Not many crowds then. The best place to eat was Charlie's Hidaway, off one of the skis. He was an American married to a Thai. Had the walls filled with these black velvet paintings of nude Thai women. Maybe 50 paintings. Banglamuung was a small one street town also. You could drive through the town without ever stopping. Baht busses was the way to travel and they actually charged one baht, foreigner or Thai. Beg the question of " how many can you get on a baht bus?" Ans. " one more". In the next few years when foreign contract airlines were used to ferry Vietnam troops here for R&R, they put the flight crews at the Nipa Lodge. A hundred or so Swedish, German, Italian, Japanese and Korean, made the place to be. The young Army Capt doctor at the JUSMG dispensary was in heaven. Got down there as much as I could. The islands off Pattaya were pristine and only had a few fisherman who would share their catch for a few Budweisers. Bought a 19 foot trimaran for I think about $400, and sailed all around there. Life was good then. Most of the action was up at Nan deterring the CT. NKP and Takli had an assortment of various groups doing nefarious things across the border. One character u met there was an AF ltcol. named Heine. Flew Jolly Greens like no one I ever saw before. Eventually became a BGen and headed JUSMAG. Later became a VP of Air Siam. Remember them? Later when RVN was falling, Heine was up there buying up flown out AC by the South Vietnamese and getting them to another character, named Secord. By this time I got married to a Thai lady from ChonBuri. Her dad wasn't thrilled about that, but she was strong willed. The only way I got approval was for my two navy capt friends and the NiAmphurs of Sattahip and Banglamuung went with me to present the bowl and convince the dad I was an honorable guy. Reluctantly he agreed. She was the oldest of six kids. Two oldest brothers were Thai Army captains ,one at Camp Bearcat, the others up country. Throughout their careers they were on different political sides thus were able to help each other out when needed. They're both retired 4 stars, and still ones on one side and the other on the other. Makes for some interesting family gatherings.

The thing I see most that changed, and it did I the US also was that politicians could disagree on positions sometimes violently, but at the end of the day went out for a drink together, and did what was best for the country. Today it's I'm right and you're wrong, no compromise. No concern about people or country. Too bad.

[Tywais]

East a few kicks was Kilo Sip, a bunch of natty bars, with girls.

Like this? Well, the back side of one the bar area. All taken in 1968 around Kilosip.

[Tywais]

And more.

[Tywais]

[Tywais]

Mamasan. Very tough lady.

[Tywais]

And Sattihip 1968.

Down town.

[Tywais]

Sattihip port.

Near Sattihip

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[SinglePot]

Well, I don't know about anybody else but I sure hav run outta likes.

Admin Tywais' photos fantastic.

Thanks.