A Rainbow Over Catholic Colleges

[LeCharivari]

Interesting news at Georgetown University, where " “every month is a good month to be gay at Georgetown,” said Thomas Lloyd, president of the campus pride group."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/education/edlife/how-georgetown-became-a-gay-friendly-campus.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&ref=romancatholicchurch

The openly gay student president's column referred to in the link is well worth reading by anyone interested in the dichotomy of being gay and Catholic, particularly those in a long-term relationship:

I am so much more than “gay.” I grow every day in friendships, experiences and my Catholic faith. ....

....members of Georgetown Pride stepped up to this task by joining 12 peer Jesuit universities in a letter-writing campaign urging the Church to reinterpret its stance on marriage and promote the integration of LGBTQ students at Catholic institutions. This effort is rooted in faith, not politics, and its objective is rooted in love, not a zero-sum game of progress for the sake of progress.

.... We read in the New Testament, “If our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God.” If heterosexual love is a calling, homosexual love can be no different. As GU Pride’s recent letter concludes, “We can’t now be told that our hearts are somehow faulty measures of His will.”

.... Let me be clear: I do not support marriage equality for the egotistic reason that a New York courtroom fails to meet my stylistic threshold for a future marriage. My “coming out” did not mean I immediately became an activist for equality in that right or rite. .... When I reflect on love I do not hear or feel or see God say, “Oops. You’re a unit of one.”

.... it is the status quo element in the Church hierarchy that has lost its faith in the living God, not the majority of lapsed Catholics. Traditionalists are so confident in their moral authority that they fail to acknowledge the hand of God working social change through those on the margins of society.

This world and this university need the Church, now and a hundred years from now. Society is changing, and God is in that change — do not reject it.

[isanbirder]

I like the positive spin in this article. It emphasises the central theme of Christ's teaching.... love.... and looks forward to continual growth and development in faith as well as love of one's partner.

Not "No, you can't", but "Yes, we can."

[Jingthing]

Human beings are amazingly skilled at rationalization.

[LeCharivari]

I like the positive spin in this article. It emphasises the central theme of Christ's teaching.... love.... and looks forward to continual growth and development in faith as well as love of one's partner.

Not "No, you can't", but "Yes, we can."

That 12 Jesuit Universities supported this article/gay marriage/LGBTQ issues is something that I am particularly impressed by - and it makes it clear that current progress is not just "as good as it gets" but that it is a "living Church" and dogma is not governing the Church's direction.

(IB, I should point out that I became a Buddhist for a number of reasons - dissatisfaction with the Jesuits or the Catholic church was not one of them)

[Jingthing]

The way I read it was that GAY GROUPS at 12 Jesuit schools joined together for some good old fashioned gay activism.

Good for them!

Georgetown PRIDE. Got it? Pride? As in Gay Pride parades and celebrations which are so unfairly demonized here. Oh, but this is different ??? No, it isn't. The PRIDE is still POLITICAL. GU is about as POLITICAL a campus as you can possibly imagine.

I have known many a gay Georgetown student in my day and it was indeed a horrible DEEP CLOSET place for gay students in the past.

They lived in constant fear and psychological misery back then in the bad old days before the great political successes of American GAY LIBERATION.

Its good to know it's getting better for them there.

(So why did they go there back then? Because it's one of the best schools in the world, that's why.)

Another win for the continued power and progress of GAY ACTIVISTS.

Keep in mind you don't have to be Catholic to attend Georgetown.

However, it's not like the administration of those schools joined together with support for the gays.

Don't go overboard and suggest the Catholic church is going to change their core religious DOGMA on those issues except for the tone part as Pope Frank recently demonstrated.

You can't have sex or adult love but you are welcome to church with us! Thanks a bunch.

Clever spin though.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

The way I read it was that GAY GROUPS at 12 Jesuit schools joined together for some good old fashioned gay activism.

Good for them!

I have known many a gay Georgetown student in my day and it was indeed a horrible place for gay students in the past.

Its good to know it's getting better for them there.

Another win for the continued power and progress of GAY ACTIVISTS.

Keep in mind you don't have to be Catholic to attend Georgetown.

However, it's not like the administration of those schools joined together with support for the gays.

Don't go overboard and suggest the Catholic church is going to change on these issues except for the tone as Pope Frank recently demonstrated.

Clever spin though.

"The way I read it was that GAY GROUPS at 12 Jesuit schools joined together for some good old fashioned gay activism."

Incorrect. According to The Hoya (the student newspaper) this was organised by the respective Student's Unions, NOT "GAY GROUPS".

"However, it's not like the administration of those schools joined together with support for the gays."

Incorrect - that is EXACTLY what happened. At Georgetown, for example, it was the administration that opened a fully staffed LGBTQ resource center and other universities such as De Paul and Our Lady of the Lake have followed suit.

Looking down on any gay progress that is not down to "GAY ACTIVISTS" and ascribing any and all progress solely to "GAY ACTIVISTS" is an insult not only to all gays but to all those others who have simply respected human rights.

[Jingthing]

The letter was about student groups from 12 schools, yes? You cited the letter and implied it was something it was not, avoiding saying what it was, an action from student GAY ACTIVISTS. The way you worded it the implication was the letter was a unified voice of PRO GAY from the administrations of 12 schools. But it wasn't, was it? Is it so horrible to openly give credit to gay activists, from an organization called PRIDE, after GAY PRIDE, and I can assure you that group is very visible at the annual Capital Pride event. You're talking about GU. A cesspoll of politics. As indeed some Jesuit schools are less horrible to their gay students in these times; who do you think deserves credit? What I think is almost all the credit goes to the GAY ACTIVISTS who pushed them! Yeah sure they magically decided to be decent. Fat chance.

The OP curiously failed to cite a link to his large block of pasted text, so here it is:

http://www.thehoya.com/opinion/tisa-faith-sexuality-in-harmony-1.2926148#.Uf0GuKwjRbQ

On Thursday, members of Georgetown Pride stepped up to this task by joining 12 peer Jesuit universities in a letter-writing campaign urging the Church to reinterpret its stance on marriage and promote the integration of LGBTQ students at Catholic institutions.

OP, please cite a LINK to the other Hoya item you cited. Thank you. Evidence is best.

I thought we were talking about the letter. The GU letter came from GU Pride, a gay activist group. Are you talking about something else regarding student unions?

Edited August 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I was referring before to the letter writing campaign. GU it came from GU Pride, gay activists. The OP cites the other places it came from student unions. Hard to believe non-gay activist students would bother writing such letters but even if they did, that would be gay activism coming from students. Not a statement of school administrations.

You do not have to be gay to be a gay activist.

Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and Desmond Tutu are gay activists.

It is well known politically that in the U.S. the Catholic people are fairly liberal compared to their LEADERSHIP in the church. In the U.S. and in Rome.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

I have given links until I am sick of them when those asking for them either never read them or say that I am cherry-picking them.

I said that my "large block of pasted text" was from "the openly gay student president's column referred to in the link", as are the other references.

I did not "cite ... the letter" or "imply" anything about "it"- THERE IS NO "IT".

I never suggested in any way that there was one letter which was "a unified voice of PRO GAY from the administrations of 12 schools" - this is simply nonsense. There was NO "GU letter" which came from "GU Pride, a gay activist group". There is NO such reference to such a letter anywhere in my posts or links and I have no idea where this idea came from.

I quoted the piece you subsequently quote in my opening post which makes all the above clear to anyone bothering to read it - that you have read something else into it and come up with some non-existent "letter" is your problem, not mine.

[LeCharivari]

You can't have sex or adult love but you are welcome to church with us! Thanks a bunch.

Clever spin though.

That is NOT the view of the Catholic Church - not its members, nor its leaders in Rome.

Everyone who goes into a Catholic church is a sinner and is seen and accepted as one - without exception.

If you can't understand ""If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge? The catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalised because of this but that they must be integrated into society. .... sins can be forgiven and forgotten by God unlike crimes" " and you want to continue to post your distorted and ill-informed view of the Catholic Church here that, apparently, is your privilege, but there is little point in my attempting to explain it to you further.

[LeCharivari]

I was referring before to the letter writing campaign. GU it came from GU Pride, gay activists. The OP cites the other places it came from student unions. Hard to believe non-gay activist students would bother writing such letters but even if they did, that would be gay activism coming from students. Not a statement of school administrations.

You do not have to be gay to be a gay activist.

Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and Desmond Tutu are gay activists.

It is well known politically that in the U.S. the Catholic people are fairly liberal compared to their LEADERSHIP in the church. In the U.S. and in Rome.

Nobody has suggested anywhere in this thread that you have to be gay to be a gay activist.

CAN SOMETHING PLEASE BE DONE ABOUT THIS CONTINUED INTRODUCTION OF AMERICAN POLITICIANS INTO THREADS WHERE THEY ARE TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.

[ToddWeston]

I was referring before to the letter writing campaign. GU it came from GU Pride, gay activists. The OP cites the other places it came from student unions. Hard to believe non-gay activist students would bother writing such letters but even if they did, that would be gay activism coming from students. Not a statement of school administrations.

You do not have to be gay to be a gay activist.

Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and Desmond Tutu are gay activists.

It is well known politically that in the U.S. the Catholic people are fairly liberal compared to their LEADERSHIP in the church. In the U.S. and in Rome.

Nobody has suggested anywhere in this thread that you have to be gay to be a gay activist.

CAN SOMETHING PLEASE BE DONE ABOUT THIS CONTINUED INTRODUCTION OF AMERICAN POLITICIANS INTO THREADS WHERE THEY ARE TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.

You're right it's very tiring the USA spin on every issue. I don't have the time to search who they are nor do I really care what some politician in the USA is saying as they are so far behind the tide IMHO, just as I'm sure not many would care what PM Harper says.

On topic it was a very good read I liked the message.

Edited August 3, 2013 by ToddWeston

[Jingthing]

I was merely providing high profile examples that not all gay activists are gay. As the geographical focus of the topic is in Washington D.C. in the USA I found the mentions of great American leaders Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama particularly apt.

I felt this necessary because we were getting to the nitty gritty of who exactly behind the gay activist letter writing campaign from the 12 schools. I still don't exactly know because evidence hasn't really been provided, but surely they were all gay activists of some kind, gay or not. Again, who would write such politically pro gay letters except gay activists?

There is no need to go apoplectic over mention of USA politicians especially in a thread about perhaps the most politically obsessed university in the USA -- GU. Also, we all know about Jesuits and politics, no need to pretend to be naive.

In my view the topic mentioned was largely about the happy results of gay activists at GU and other schools. Thanks for sharing this positive story about the great social benefits gay activists can bestow upon humanity.

Screaming with all caps to try to intimidate other posters from having their say on topics is not going to cut it.

Cheers.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

CAN SOMETHING PLEASE BE DONE ABOUT THIS CONTINUED INTRODUCTION OF AMERICAN POLITICIANS INTO THREADS WHERE THEY ARE TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.

You're right it's very tiring the USA spin on every issue. I don't have the time to search who they are nor do I really care what some politician in the USA is saying as they are so far behind the tide IMHO, just as I'm sure not many would care what PM Harper says.

On topic it was a very good read I liked the message.

Thank you.

Confession time: I had to look up who PM Harper was. Sorry.

[ToddWeston]

CAN SOMETHING PLEASE BE DONE ABOUT THIS CONTINUED INTRODUCTION OF AMERICAN POLITICIANS INTO THREADS WHERE THEY ARE TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.

You're right it's very tiring the USA spin on every issue. I don't have the time to search who they are nor do I really care what some politician in the USA is saying as they are so far behind the tide IMHO, just as I'm sure not many would care what PM Harper says.

On topic it was a very good read I liked the message.

Thank you.

Confession time: I had to look up who PM Harper was. Sorry.

heheheh now you feel my pain the initiism is what kills me Potus I know because i heard it in a movie.