Thai wife with Dual citizenship. Her status now in Thailand?

[7by7]

naiharn,

When my daughter, who is now 22 and a dual Thai/British national, reached 20 my wife was concerned about the rule you seem to think is still extant.

So we asked the Thai embassy in London, who said that the law had changed some time ago and these days it was up to her. They explained that she could not renounce her Thai nationality until she was 20, but now that she was she could do so if she wished but she didn't have to.

When we bought out house in Bangkok my wife was concerned about owning land as she is a Thai/British dual national (Thai by birth, British by naturalisation) so we checked with the local ampur. Not surprisingly no one there knew; so they checked further up the line and the answer came back that it was no problem, as long as we both signed a declaration to the effect (can't remember the exact words) that the money used to purchase the land was hers alone and that I had no claim to ownership of the land.

We know many other Thai/British families in the same situation and like us they have never had a problem with Thai officialdom knowing they are dual nationals.

If for some reason you want to stop your Thai partner, if you have one, from acquiring your nationality by quoting out dated laws to him/her, that is your affair. But please don't peddle that line here because there are too many of us who have been there and bought the T shirt who know that you are wrong.

[TheChiefJustice]

I'm surprised our Arkady hasn't made an appearance in this thread!

[Arkady]

Just arrived, CJ.

Section 22 of the current 1965 Act (as amended in 1992 twice, 2008 and 2012) is as follows:

Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien, or who has renounced
Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

Suitably vague and open to interpretation as is much of the corpus of Thai statutory law. However, It is worth noting that this level of ambiguity was introduced into the 1965 Act for the first time. Prior to that the law provided unequivocably for revocation of Thai nationality in the case of naturalisation as an alien. Since 1965 I don't believe that any revocations under Section 22 have ever been announced in the Royal Gazette. A letter was sent to the Foreign Ministry by the Interior Ministry in 1970 asking Thai embassies abroad to supply details of Thais who had naturalised as aliens, so the Interior MInistry could initiate revocation proceedings against them but there appears to be no evidence that any revocations ever resulted from this. There is no evidence available of any further attempts by the MoI in the intervening 43 years to obtain this sort of information from Thai missions overseas. The MoF in fact advises on its website that dual nationality is neither specifically permitted nor prohibited under Thai law and advises dual citizens to use their Thai passports to travel to Thailand and foreign passports to enter that foreign country.

Section 13 of the act is as follows:

Section 13. A woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of her husband according to the nationality law of her husband, shall, if she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration of her intention before the competent official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

This section seems err more on the side of making renunciation of Thai nationality purely voluntary for Thai women married to foreigners. However, be careful here because hardly any countries except for Thailand now provide for foreign women to adopt the nationality of their husbands, as Thailand does under Section 9 of the Act which is deemed a different process from naturalisation under Thai law. The UK dropped this provision in the 1981 UK Nationality Act, before which foreign wives (but not husbands) of UK citizens could drop into their local British embassy to pick up a passport on the way from the registry office without ever going to the UK. Most farang countries have also dropped this sexist type of legislation in favour of making everyone apply for naturalisation with slightly easier residence qualifications for spouses. Therefore it is arguable that nearly all Thai wives of foreigners who obtain foreign nationality as a result of residence overseas have been naturalised as aliens and therefore that Section 22 applies to them, not Section 13.

The Interior Ministry advice which is published online in the form of a magazine interview of an official from the Nationality Department is that dual citizenship is illegal and that wives of foreigners should renounce their Thai citizenship and re-apply for it in the event they get divorced. The ministry also advises Thai women married to foreigners that they must ensure that their children either renounce their Thai nationality under Section 14 or renounce their foreign nationality when they get to age 20. Apart from this disingenuous informal advice there are no known ministerial regulations relating to involuntary loss of Thai nationality in these circumstances nor any evidence of this ever happening to any one who was born Thai with the notable exception of those who were born in Thailand to alien parents. Before December 1971 they were automatically Thai and quite a number (nearly all Chinese) have involuntarily lost their Thai nationality even in relatively recent times, either for residing overseas for more than 5 years or "using or taking an interest in the nationality of their fathers".

Those are the ins and outs of the legal position as I see it. Personally I would say that anyone born Thai to at least one Thai parent should not have any fear of maintaining dual nationality as far as Thai law and its application is concerned. You have a constitutional right to enter Thailand as a Thai and unless it has been announced in the Royal Gazette that you are no longer Thai, you still are. Of course, the bureaucrats hate this situation and would have it otherwise. One day they might be successful but their problem is that there are too many influential Thais that want to retain dual nationality for themselves or their kids.

[jrtmedic]

This thread is becoming extremely tedious with two protagonists each seemingly being determined to be "right"

In the big scheme of of things does it matter if the sky is blue or pale pink ?

[Arkady]

Can some people kindly clarify the dual citizenship/land ownership facts? This has been a very big concern of my wife and I. She is Thai, I am American. After 10 years here she really wants US Citizenship but we have feared she would loose some nice pieces of land she owns in Thailand, (and a very nice house there). Thanks in advance for any information (and links for official information).

She will remain Thai unless she voluntarily renounces her Thai citizenship (not required by US or Thai law) and continues to enjoy all rights as a Thai citizen, including the right to own land.

The confusion over land ownership arises from the fact that the Interior Ministry regulations pursuant to the Land Code formerly prohibited transfers of Land to Thai wives, whether legally married or just cohabiting (but not Thai husbands) of foreigners. This gender discrimination was clearly illegal under the 1997 Constitution and the ministry was obliged to back down from its reprehensible position. Thus in 1999 a ministerial letter was published advising Land Dept officials to treat Thai spouses of foreigners equally regardless of gender and to allow transfers of land to them without further investigation of sources of funds, provided that both parties signed a standard declaration to the effect that the funds used to purchase the land were the Thai partner's personal property and the land would be excluded from the conjugal property (that can be divided in the event of divorce).

Even prior to the 1999 change of regulations, the prohibition only applied to new transfers and didn't affect the Thai wives' existing land holdings before marriage or cohabitation with a foreign man. However, neither her foreign husband, nor her foreign children (Thai nationality didn't pass through a Thai mother prior to 1992) were entitled to inherit the land, although they were entitled to the proceeds of the sale of it by her estate.

[Arkady]

This thread is becoming extremely tedious with two protagonists each seemingly being determined to be "right"

In the big scheme of of things does it matter if the sky is blue or pale pink ?

There is plenty of information available, if you can read Thai and have the inclination to do a little research. Read the nationality act, the ministerial regulations and guidelines and all relevant announcements in the Royal Gazette and I think you will also be in no doubt.

I think it is an important topic for many people who have Thai wives and are unsure what they should do about their wives' nationality. There is a lot of misinformation around. So why not let people discuss and learn more from this thread, as long as it is not abusive?

[jrtmedic]

To be honest I really do not care.

My wife enjoys dual nationality and has experienced absolutely no problems with the Thai authorities.