Popular Post mascarakatze Posted August 5, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2013 I have 5 condominiums on the 15th floor of an older condominium near the kad suan kaew shopping mall. About a year and a half ago at an owners meeting a Juristic person manager was elected along with a mix of Thai and foreign owners. The first month the juristic manager filed a police report charging committee with trespassing in the office (of the committee) on the ground floor of the building. They were brought to the police station and after a 50,000 baht bail, were able to return home. For one year the building was hijacked , there was no transparency, no bills were sent out for condominium fees, CCTV equipment went missing and more, much more. A few months ago this manager called an emergency owners meeting to get rid of the committee (which continued to be a thorn in her side). The committee in turn called another emergency meeting ONE hour before her meeting. The result was that with reason, intellect and documentation the manager was voted out. After almost 20 years of neglect, indifference and apathy, The building is being resurrected by the new committee and newly appointed temporary manager, the management company, and the legal team . The results of our emergency meeting were brought to the land office and scrutinised under microscopes for any discrepancy (which there was none of). They accepted the results and the hard work started. The water systems were in disrepair as was the entire electrical system. Money to run the building was low, bank accounts were frozen and morale was low. it was like running up a down escalator. Threats, hired thugs, law suits and personal attacks came at this new committee and manager and then things changed. WE hired an outside condominium management company. The office looks professional and is staffed with young bright secretaries and accounting people. The mood changed. Most of the 15 police reports filed by the former manager have been dismissed. We now have a superb legal team about to launch both criminal and civil law suits against former persons. Our legal team have identified over 6 million Baht of unpaid condominium fees owed by various owners some of which own commercials space, have collected rents for years and years and are 100's of thousands Baht in arrears. Letters are being drawn up to send to the owners who have NOT paid while the building fell apart. Our legal team now guides us step by step to make sure that we are on legal grounds on all of our endeavours Things can change with incredibly hard work and persistence and the desire to just do the right thing. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMKiwi Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Good to hear and I hope it all works out for you> Bureaucracy often takes the form of bribes, I just hope the new organisation doesnt stoop to that level and every thing is kept on the up and up. As is Thailand, its not necessarly what you know but who you know that sometimes leads to mismanagement. All the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Not attempting to challenge you in any way, can you please share some details of why the manager (now removed) believed she had some right to run it all her way. Just interested, maybe something to learn from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mascarakatze Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 Not attempting to challenge you in any way, can you please share some details of why the manager (now removed) believed she had some right to run it all her way. Just interested, maybe something to learn from this. we ponder that question daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mascarakatze Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 this committee seeks guidance and or advice from other concerned condominium committees trying to accomplish a much needed revolution for transparency and structure for the future waves of condo buildings coming to Chiang mai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Not attempting to challenge you in any way, can you please share some details of why the manager (now removed) believed she had some right to run it all her way. Just interested, maybe something to learn from this. Not a serious question just curious. At one point we had a new manager in my old condo in Bangkok, she lasted perhaps 10 days and was sacked. At the interview she was fairly pleasant and appeared to be professional, but instantly changed to be a storm trooper. Instantly told several owners who came to the office with small requests that they had to make a request for appointment to see her 7 days in advance, request to see her had to be submitted in writing for her to consider. And she told her outside friends they could use our lobby for a storage area, instantly meaning that perhaps 70% of our pretty nice lobby area was taken up with cardboard boxes, many in disrepair and with lots of contents of the boxes (wholesale clothing business) just left all over the floor, and the outside people also tried to install two commercial sewing machines in our lobby. A group of owners stood their ground on this one and prevented the machines from being moved in, which invoked severe abuse from the new manager, she telling the owners that she made all decisions and they had to do as she instructed. And more. She had been recommended by a friend of a committee member and the committee had therefore agreed there was no need to do any check on her past experience, etc. This invoked discussing / starting a new procedure in terms of employment making it compulsory in all circumstances for other committee members to do a check. In any event, mascarakatze, nice to hear your on the right path. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naroge Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Very interesting story, and possibly something for others to learn from this. I have always believed that the Manager acts on behalf of the Committee. So if the Manager make some "strange" moves the Committee can meet and draw up new regulations (or clarifications) that the Manager has to follow. If the Manager doesn't follow these new regulations the Manager can be fired (without compensation). Why didn't your Committee step in earlier to correct the situation? And how could the Manager sue for trespassing? I thought that the whole office was owned by the juristic person, which in turn is managed by the Committee, and not the private space of the Manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Very interesting story, and possibly something for others to learn from this. I have always believed that the Manager acts on behalf of the Committee. So if the Manager make some "strange" moves the Committee can meet and draw up new regulations (or clarifications) that the Manager has to follow. If the Manager doesn't follow these new regulations the Manager can be fired (without compensation). Why didn't your Committee step in earlier to correct the situation? And how could the Manager sue for trespassing? I thought that the whole office was owned by the juristic person, which in turn is managed by the Committee, and not the private space of the Manager. Well she was gone within 10 days. It took several days to be able to get enough committee members together to discuss the matter and most of the committee were quite concerned about the legal ramifications of dismissing her and pushed to get a legal opinion, again a few days. All done 10 days. 'Trespassing', not sure why you mention this word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mascarakatze Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Very interesting story, and possibly something for others to learn from this. I have always believed that the Manager acts on behalf of the Committee. So if the Manager make some "strange" moves the Committee can meet and draw up new regulations (or clarifications) that the Manager has to follow. If the Manager doesn't follow these new regulations the Manager can be fired (without compensation). Why didn't your Committee step in earlier to correct the situation? And how could the Manager sue for trespassing? I thought that the whole office was owned by the juristic person, which in turn is managed by the Committee, and not the private space of the Manager. Well she was gone within 10 days. It took several days to be able to get enough committee members together to discuss the matter and most of the committee were quite concerned about the legal ramifications of dismissing her and pushed to get a legal opinion, again a few days. All done 10 days. 'Trespassing', not sure why you mention this word. because SHE called the police they came down and took everybody to the station house. the committee was charged with tresspassing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARISTIDE Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 charging committee with trespassing in the office (of the committee) on the ground floor of the building. They were brought to the police station and after a 50,000 baht bail, Sounded like Thai politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atyclb Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 In one of a series of new condos being built in Rachada by a local hotel the so called "common areas" turned out to be owned by the developer and are essentially hijacked to the detriment of everyone that bought units. Buyer beware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondKing Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 All common areas and the management should be turned over to the homeowners association upon the project selling out anything other than that and your asking for trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropic1000 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 mascarakatze: How many units are in your building? It sounds large. That's great that you found [1] an outside condominium management company and [2] a legal team that you are happy with. Its hard to find good operators and ones that can take charge so quickly. How did you find these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naroge Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Very interesting story, and possibly something for others to learn from this. I have always believed that the Manager acts on behalf of the Committee. So if the Manager make some "strange" moves the Committee can meet and draw up new regulations (or clarifications) that the Manager has to follow. If the Manager doesn't follow these new regulations the Manager can be fired (without compensation). Why didn't your Committee step in earlier to correct the situation? And how could the Manager sue for trespassing? I thought that the whole office was owned by the juristic person, which in turn is managed by the Committee, and not the private space of the Manager. Well she was gone within 10 days. It took several days to be able to get enough committee members together to discuss the matter and most of the committee were quite concerned about the legal ramifications of dismissing her and pushed to get a legal opinion, again a few days. All done 10 days. 'Trespassing', not sure why you mention this word. The reason I mentioned "trespassing" was that OP wrote "The first month the juristic manager filed a police report charging committee with trespassing in the office (of the committee)". I'm not sure you got the "10 days" correct. OP wrote that "For one year the building was hijacked". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naroge Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 In one of a series of new condos being built in Rachada by a local hotel the so called "common areas" turned out to be owned by the developer and are essentially hijacked to the detriment of everyone that bought units. Buyer beware I doubt this is legally possible. If true, then the owner of the common areas could charge any amount he wants for letting the condo owners use this are for getting to and from their units. He could otherwise threaten with not giving access at all! Not even in Thailand I believe such a setup is possible. I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy The Kid Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) Our Condo committee had just increased the annual maintenance fee to 20% this year . They are taking the piss. Well done to the OP. Edited August 6, 2013 by Billy The Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naroge Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Our Condo committee had just increased the annual maintenance fee to 20% this year . They are taking the piss. Well done to the OP. The Committee can not change the maintenance fee on their own. It needs the AGM to do it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoodMaiDai Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Jesus, sounds like a nightmare. How large is this condo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naroge Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Our Condo committee had just increased the annual maintenance fee to 20% this year . They are taking the piss. Well done to the OP. You find an increase of 20% excessive? It depends of course on from where you are coming, but a friend of mine had his fee increased by 50% recently. This was agreed at a AGM and there was 100% support for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mascarakatze Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Jesus, sounds like a nightmare. How large is this condo? 300+ condos it's easy to outsmart the bad guys because their greedy and careless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropic1000 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 to mascarakatze: That's great that you found an good outside condominium management company. Are there many choices in Chiang Mai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy The Kid Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Our Condo committee had just increased the annual maintenance fee to 20% this year . They are taking the piss. Well done to the OP. The Committee can not change the maintenance fee on their own. It needs the AGM to do it. Yeah you are right.. AGM was cancelled last month to poor turnout. Had to wait for another AGM to agree the increase. Looks likely will be agreed by the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naroge Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Our Condo committee had just increased the annual maintenance fee to 20% this year . They are taking the piss. Well done to the OP. The Committee can not change the maintenance fee on their own. It needs the AGM to do it. Yeah you are right.. AGM was cancelled last month to poor turnout. Had to wait for another AGM to agree the increase. Looks likely will be agreed by the majority. If you have a too low turnout at the ordinary AGM, then you should schedule the next AGM within 15 days, and the requirements for attendance is lower to form a quorum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeryble Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) Our Condo committee had just increased the annual maintenance fee to 20% this year . They are taking the piss. Well done to the OP. Billy with all due respect you are typifying owners in criticizing your committee. I hope your conclusion that they are "taking the piss" is based on more information that what you gave us, ie because fees went up 20% (I presume you mean that by "increased the maintenance fee to 20% this year"). The fact is that whilst i think some new condos are overfunded, a few condos, especially some older ones, are way underfunded and the mindset conditioned to low fees (if they were low) can be difficult to alter. The fact of course is that there is a correct amount for fees which the committee must best estimate, and if that figure is not voted in you are hurting no-one but yourself as the building goes downhill. There's an old saying: "Don't spoil the ship for a ha'penny worth of tar". Out of note rest what are your fees per sqm (and useful to kniw, how many units and what is the age of the building?) Edited August 6, 2013 by cheeryble 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tilac2 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 To my knowledge there have been numerous abuses in condo management in Chiang Mai. Some of the JPs have been very corrupt. Maybe an "Association of Chiang Mai condo committees" could help address the abuses? I live in SkyBreeze condo and we have had a decade of exploitation, litigation and confusion before finally electing an honest and competent committee. But that committee must remain ever vigilant and, in my opinion, should keep lawyers on standby, because the exploiters and problem-causers do not give up. Regarding the 20% increase mentioned by a previous poster, where is the problem? If the neglect by previous managers needs addressing, or if maintenance costs increase year-on-year, then the fees must be increased. The only problem would be if the condo is being run by crooks who are taking these fees + 20% for their own selfish benefit. In that case, my advice, just sue them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binjalin Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Our Condo committee had just increased the annual maintenance fee to 20% this year . They are taking the piss. Well done to the OP. from what to what? there are some buildings paying 12 some 15 some 35 so 20% on a building paying 12 is 2.5 baht which is still a VERY low 14.5 baht as others have pointed out a committee cannot raise anything only ask owners to vote for such a raise at the AGM have you put yourself up for the committee? easy to say 'taking the piss' from the sidelines, maybe the expenditure of your condo exceeds the income from fees? it may well be they are 'taking the piss' or it may well be they are trying to improve your building, balance the books and get stuff maintained? as you say 'well done' to the OP but his story doesn't relate to your comments about raising common area fees it relates to truing out a crooked JP please give us more detail about why you are so against this raise in your building etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesquite Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 All the problems discussed in this thread go away if you rent instead of own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy The Kid Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Our Condo committee had just increased the annual maintenance fee to 20% this year . They are taking the piss. Well done to the OP. Billy with all due respect you are typifying owners in criticizing your committee.I hope your conclusion that they are "taking the piss" is based on more information that what you gave us, ie because fees went up 20% (I presume you mean that by "increased the maintenance fee to 20% this year"). The fact is that whilst i think some new condos are overfunded, a few condos, especially some older ones, are way underfunded and the mindset conditioned to low fees (if they were low) can be difficult to alter. The fact of course is that there is a correct amount for fees which the committee must best estimate, and if that figure is not voted in you are hurting no-one but yourself as the building goes downhill. There's an old saying: "Don't spoil the ship for a ha'penny worth of tar". Out of note rest what are your fees per sqm (and useful to kniw, how many units and what is the age of the building?) I have to agree with what you said. Made me think again and you are correct 100%. Thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeryble Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I have to agree with what you said. Made me think again and you are correct 100%. Thanks. Rarely had such a gentlemanly acceptance of criticism. Thankyou. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy The Kid Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I have to agree with what you said. Made me think again and you are correct 100%. Thanks. Rarely had such a gentlemanly acceptance of criticism. Thankyou. Thanks..Sometimes I speak before I think, lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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