Can my US wife become a Thai Citizen? I am a male Thai citizen.

[Arkady]

Samran, I trust you. I read something a while back at immigration and thought it said giving birth to a Thai national was one of the criteria and it exempted from having to show tax papers. Perhaps I just misread. Sorry to give mis-information.

For a male with a Thai wife, having a child together allows you to apply for citizenship one year after marriage instead of three but it doesn't exempt you from having to have a job or 3 years' salary tax receipts. Immigration has nothing to do with Thai citizenship application.

[Arkady]

Congratulations on the new arrival Samran

I wish you all the best

Congrats again, Samran.

[Time Traveller]

It is not a level playing field yet but it is a lot more level than it was before 2008. The original bill of the 2008 Act drafted by a female MP would have introduced complete parity for foreign males with Thai wives but it was amended by the Interior Ministry's legal committee on the somewhat spurious grounds of "national security", presumably the palpable threat to "Thainness" of thousands of foreign male retirees queuing up for citizenship.

Hahaha....Is that really the reason, Arkady? It's like it implies a few thousand foreign male retirees could subjugate the millions of Thais in their prime years. Are the thais and their culture that weak?

[samran]

@timetraveller - to be honest, if the law went ahead as planned it would have created a perverse incentive for thousands of sham marriages simply to get citizenship. Unfortunately the fear of this, has made it harder for everyone else.

[Time Traveller]

@timetraveller - to be honest, if the law went ahead as planned it would have created a perverse incentive for thousands of sham marriages simply to get citizenship. Unfortunately the fear of this, has made it harder for everyone else.

Understood, but usually the marriages get investigated quite thoroughly by immigration. And the "retirees" would qualify for retirement visa extensions anyway, so really no need for them get citizenship. I guess a valid concern would be them owning assets that are limited to citizens. Not necessarily a bad thing if they bring additional capital into the country.

Anyway, that be the laws.

[Arkady]

It is not a level playing field yet but it is a lot more level than it was before 2008. The original bill of the 2008 Act drafted by a female MP would have introduced complete parity for foreign males with Thai wives but it was amended by the Interior Ministry's legal committee on the somewhat spurious grounds of "national security", presumably the palpable threat to "Thainness" of thousands of foreign male retirees queuing up for citizenship.

Hahaha....Is that really the reason, Arkady? It's like it implies a few thousand foreign male retirees could subjugate the millions of Thais in their prime years. Are the thais and their culture that weak?

The minutes of the meeting of the Interior Ministry's legal committee that took place a couple of months before the 2008 Nationality Act was promulgated are actually posted openly online by the MoI (in Thai of course) here www.law.moi.go.th/2550/22550082435c.doc.

They didn't actually say anything about foreign male retirees but they did mention that the state should not compromise Thainness or national security in order to achieve parity between genders. This was consistent with an earlier Council of State ruling that the government had the right to discriminate against Thai women who wanted their foreign husbands to be able to apply for citizenship at parity with their Thai male counterparts' foreign wives. I assume their thinking was that there are many more foreign men married to Thais than the reverse and this number has increased very significantly in recent years by the number of retirees. Their suggestion to amend the bill to deny foreign men the right to apply under Section 9, just like foreign wives of Thai men, was incorporated into the final version and only affects foreign men with Thai wives who are not legally working in Thailand, the vast majority of whom are retirees. However, they were probably not only thinking of retirees but also any foreigners who hang around permanently in Thailand without working legally. No doubt they were more frightened of foreign criminals below retirement age but the sheer numbers of retirees must have also scared them.

So the law remains discriminatory but the amendment was a highly deserved benefit to working foreigners with Thai wives. To be fair it is hard to see how foreigners who migrate to Thailand late in life to retire are really going to assimilate into Thai society. It is a lot easier for those who come to work and get a greater understanding of Thai society through the work place and learn the language to a decent level, not that that justifies the discrimination.

In my opinion they should have gone for a more radical reform. It would make a lot more sense and be in line with their objectives to set the following standards for spouses of Thai citizens of either gender:

1. 5 years' residence in Thailand after marriage without PR regardless of children with maximum of 90 days out of the country per year.

2. Minimum of Bt 80k monthly income for at least 3 years for either the applicant or the spouse.

3. Knowledge of Thai language and life in Thailand on the same basis as all other applicants which should also include basic reading and writing skills.

I see no reason why spouses of Thai citizens should be exempt from Thai language requirements or knowledge of life in Thailand. How can they assimilate without knowing the language or anything about the country. The 15k a month requirement for Thai men with foreign wives is a joke and the 40k for foreign men with Thai wives is extremely modest. But whatever the standard is should anyway be the same for both.

After implementing these tougher standards they should then guarantee the minister's approval or disapproval within 2 years (HMK normally signs within a year or less after that) and the whole process should be subject to judicial review and no longer up to the minister's discretion. What they actually do is unfair to everyone, as they use the minister's discretion to block and delay good and bad applicants alike without setting any meaningful standards to protect their interests. However, this has been a tradition of Thai government and bureaucracy going back to the days of absolute monarchy and things will not change quickly.

[Arkady]

Re questions regarding compulsory voting and showing savings.

Yes voting is compulsory for all Thai citizens with electoral rights. The electoral rights of naturalised Thais start 5 years after announcement of their citizenship in the Royal Gazette. I think the only penalty for not voting is loss of rights to stand for elected office which is not open to naturalised Thais anyway. So nothing.

You need to show savings of at least B80k in Thai bank account on application. No seasoning required and never checked again but work permit, letter of employment and tax receipts can be re-checked during the process - happened to me 2.5 years after application.

[paz]

The minutes of the meeting of the Interior Ministry's legal committee that took place a couple of months before the 2008 Nationality Act was promulgated are actually posted openly online by the MoI (in Thai of course) here www.law.moi.go.th/2550/22550082435c.doc.

<snip>

Informative, practical and balanced posting.

I will never marry a Thai but appreciate that nevertheless.

So nice to see a Mod going beyond 'removed flaming posts.'

[simon43]

Samran and Arkady, could you 2 experts please clarify the citizenship application requirements that would apply in my case. I was previously legally married to a Thai lady and had a son whilst still married. But we amicably divorced a year a couple of years later and remain good friends. I remariied a Thai lady and ...er .. divorced again! Now I'm single, with no plans to remarry. I do not have PR.

Does my martial status make me eligible to apply for citizenship (assuming I meet the tax paid criteria etc)? Many Thais in my local community either assume that I already have Thai citizenship, or ask why I have not applied for it. I was under the impression that my martial status would barr me from applying.

Simon

[beautifulthailand99]

If a Thai male marries a farang woman, she can fast track to Thai citizenship...usually 5 years or so... certainly less than the 10 years they say is required by Thai immigration .

As an example...

A farang lady was married to a Thai man. She got citizenship, and they turned his used car lot into a Toyota dealership...Good for them. The Western world loves a success story.

Years pass & as happens in life, her Thai husband died.

She still owns the dealership, the land the dealership is on & the land her house is on. Not only is she, a farang, European by birth, white skin & blonde hair, owner of all the property & the business, she is also now a Mookdahan municipal court judge....Again, good for her....I'm sure she is a great judge.

Go figure...Thais being judged by a farang. Worlds are colliding...

GOD forbid it was a farang male,...the land & business would have been sold off & the farang male would have been given his walking papers, or told to qualify for a visa if he desired to stay.

But...TIT.

If you think this story is untrue, stop by Toyota in Mukdahan & ask for the owner.

Sure looks so ...

http://www.toyotamukdahan.com/StaffStory.asp

[samran]

Samran and Arkady, could you 2 experts please clarify the citizenship application requirements that would apply in my case. I was previously legally married to a Thai lady and had a son whilst still married. But we amicably divorced a year a couple of years later and remain good friends. I remariied a Thai lady and ...er .. divorced again! Now I'm single, with no plans to remarry. I do not have PR.

Does my martial status make me eligible to apply for citizenship (assuming I meet the tax paid criteria etc)? Many Thais in my local community either assume that I already have Thai citizenship, or ask why I have not applied for it. I was under the impression that my martial status would barr me from applying.

Simon

Not being married, you'd have to go the PR route first it would seem.

[Beachbunny]

From guidelines for application of Thai citizenship....(how many of you are willing to do this..... I believe this has been added in the last few years)

"Applicants should produce a document that they have submitted to their embassy or consulate in Thailand that demonstrates their intention to renounce their existing citizenship when they are approved for Thai citizenship."

Beachbunny

[ubonjoe]

From guidelines for application of Thai citizenship....(how many of you are willing to do this..... I believe this has been added in the last few years)

"Applicants should produce a document that they have submitted to their embassy or consulate in Thailand that demonstrates their intention to renounce their existing citizenship when they are approved for Thai citizenship."

Beachbunny

Many have done it because the statement is non binding becasue it merely states your intent and nobody will force you to do it.

[pvs1]

Your daughter is Thai as she has a Thai father.

You can get her a Thai Passport.

Thanks, she now has her Thai ID card!