Gay Heroes/icons

[ToddWeston]

I'm quickly learning about the diverse folks on this thread and want to pick your brains/

I was asked today who I respected taking our agenda to the forefront and making it happen, I could only think of the recent comments by Archbiship Tutu and I was stuck without naming pop stars. A name was mentioned Harry Milk from the USA who'd I never heard about before today, after a little research I think he'd qualify.

Yes I get movies and tv shows have made our agenda mainstream but actual people who fought the fight internationally ?

Who would you add to the list ? I've thought about a few MP's but nothing that kids will remember in 5 years time, after all policticians come and go.

[LeCharivari]

Do you mean "gay heroes" or heroes who are gay?

Very different thing.

If you mean "gay heroes" as in famous gay activists who are also gay and who are recognised at an international level the list's pretty short - Gene Robinson's the only one who springs to mind, and even he's only recognised in the US and Australia. The rest are all straight, rather disappointingly.

If you mean gays who have done heroic or outstanding things and have also been openly gay at the time, who have probably done a lot more for gay acceptance, the list's pretty extensive - particularly amongst sportsmen.

[transam]

Alan Turing.

[ToddWeston]

Do you mean "gay heroes" or heroes who are gay?

Very different thing.

If you mean "gay heroes" as in famous gay activists who are also gay and who are recognised at an international level the list's pretty short - Gene Robinson's the only one who springs to mind, and even he's only recognised in the US and Australia. The rest are all straight, rather disappointingly.

If you mean gays who have done heroic or outstanding things and have also been openly gay at the time, who have probably done a lot more for gay acceptance, the list's pretty extensive - particularly amongst sportsmen.

Very valid point, straight or gay - would love to learn some names and read up on them. I was at a loss and Was ashamed I could only think of pop stars.

Just drop the name in and perhaps at the end will create a list for those of us who aren't as up to date as we should be regional or international.

As I mentioned I'd never heard of Mr. Milk until today and there was even a movie about his story, though I can't stand Sean Penn and his politics I probably would have seen it.

Drop names and I'll sort, thanks LC for your comment.

[Jingthing]

It's Harvey Milk, not Harry.

Yes he was quite the lefty as well.

I was privileged to meet him during the peak of his powers.

He's the most iconic from America and I assume known internationally to some degree.

Getting assassinated always helps with that.

About the movie. You should see it. I lived in SF through all those times in the movie and the movie was largely historically accurate and conveyed the feel of that time and place remarkably well. Sean Pean is a FANTASTIC actor. What does it matter if you don't like his politics?

Likely not known outside the USA but very important:

Franklin Kameny, died not long ago.

The most moderate/mainstream of the bunch.

I was privileged to spend a day with him when I was a youth (journalism project)

http://www.washingtonblade.com/2011/10/11/longtime-gay-activist-frank-kameny-passes-on/

The Stonewall riots, triggered by a police raid of the Stonewall gay bar, are considered by most activist leaders as the starting point of the modern LGBT rights movement. But movement leaders credit Kameny and his collaborators in the Mattachine Society of Washington with laying the groundwork that enabled the post-Stonewall LGBT organizing to flourish.

“Frank was a revolutionary who lived to see the world change, and I’m comforted by that,” said Francis. “He was the first gay American to root the argument for gay civil equality in the words of Thomas Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence and Constitution.”

Gay historian David K. Johnson, who wrote about Kameny in two books on the gay rights movement, said Kameny broke from the early American “homophile” movement’s tactics of accommodation with the prevailing views that homosexuality was a disorder.

“Kameny’s style and tactics differed markedly from those of earlier homosexual leaders,” Johnson wrote in a 2002 article posted on the website of D.C.’s Rainbow History Project. “By unabashedly proclaiming that homosexuality was neither sick nor immoral, Kameny helped move gays and lesbians out of the shadows of 1950s apologetic, self-help groups and into the sunlight of the civil rights movement, setting the tone for a movement that continues today.

...

“Frank Kameny was the Rosa Parks and the Martin Luther King and the Thurgood Marshall of the gay rights movement,” Yale Law Professor William Eskridge told the Associated Press earlier this year.

Also:

Larry Kramer, alive but old.

Politics quite radical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tragedy_of_Today%27s_Gays

All gay and Jewish, BTW, and not a coincidence.

My personal opinion which the quote above supports is that not so well known FRANKLIN KAMENY will be seen by historians as the most important SUBSTANTIVE figure of the American gay civil rights movement, not Harvey Milk. But Milk is indeed the ICON.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Another dead guy but since the OP mentioned Harvey Milk, I reckon they qualify.

Dr. Magnus Hirschfeld

http://www.stonewallsociety.com/famouspeople/magnus.htm

Hirschfeld believed that sexual orientation was a naturally occurring trait worthy of scientific inquiry and political emancipation rather than social hostility.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

It matters to each new generation that there are folks who are active, participating, contributing members of our society - who happen to be gay. This knowledge helps young people understand that accepting who you are, and living the life you were meant to lead, does not condemn you to live on the margins, shunned by family or friends. Kids who might be of a different sexual orientation or gender identity know from a very early age that they are different from their peers. Giving them even one example where this is just fine, and where it's no big deal in the end, eases their path to their own acceptance.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/29/george-takei-star-trek-gay_n_3512332.html

George Takei, Star Trek star, gay activist, currently leading a drive to deny Russia the winter Olympics.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[sustento]

My two gay heroes (neither of whom was gay) are Sir John Wolfenden and Leo Abse. Both of them did more for me than all the others put together.

Edited August 8, 2013 by sustento

[Jingthing]

My two gay heroes (neither of whom was gay) are Sir John Wolfenden and Leo Abse. Both of them did more for me than all the others put together.

In the U.S., Wolfenden is known by many educated people. Abse, not so much.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

Do you mean "gay heroes" or heroes who are gay?

Very different thing.

If you mean "gay heroes" as in famous gay activists who are also gay and who are recognised at an international level the list's pretty short - Gene Robinson's the only one who springs to mind, and even he's only recognised in the US and Australia. The rest are all straight, rather disappointingly.

If you mean gays who have done heroic or outstanding things and have also been openly gay at the time, who have probably done a lot more for gay acceptance, the list's pretty extensive - particularly amongst sportsmen.

Very valid point, straight or gay - would love to learn some names and read up on them. I was at a loss and Was ashamed I could only think of pop stars.

Just drop the name in and perhaps at the end will create a list for those of us who aren't as up to date as we should be regional or international.

As I mentioned I'd never heard of Mr. Milk until today and there was even a movie about his story, though I can't stand Sean Penn and his politics I probably would have seen it.

Drop names and I'll sort, thanks LC for your comment.

Still not sure if you mean "gay activists ... straight or gay", or if you mean "gay heroes" - while many of those already mentioned are noted gay activists (at least as much as they are noted), I don't really think some of them deserve to be called "heroes" and some of the most noted have really been "politicians who happen to be gay" and who have played the gay card rather than "gay activists". Some, such as Harry Milk who's the best known in the USA, are really "just" activists (and I don't mean that to be insulting) and both their public and private lives leave rather a lot to be desired as far as being "heroes" is concerned.

One you could add to your list in the gay activist icon category is Peter Tatchell who is rather better known in the west (UK, Australia, etc) - while he is recognised as a "gay activist" as he has been very active on gay issues he is really a human rights activist who happens to be gay as he has been active across the whole spectrum of human rights issues, from apartheid to freedom of speech.

Bishop Gene Robinson, as I've previously mentioned, is well known in both the US and Australia and also fits in that category.

Nikolay Alexeyev is officially a gay "hero" according to Los Angeles and Vancouver Pride awards, but as he claims to be personally responsible for bringing homosexuality into Russian politics and to Vladimir Putin's attention, and consequently directly responsible for provoking the recent Russian anti-gay laws, many Russian gays probably just wish he'd kept his mouth shut and heeded the warnings of his fellow Russian gay activists.

Ben Cohen is not actually gay but after playing Rugby for the British Lions he founded Stand Up to combat bullying and homophobia and many consider him a "gay icon" - so much so that some, mistakenly, think he's gay. http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/26/john-bercow-accidently-outs-rugby-star-ben-cohen-in-gay-gaff/

Oscar Wilde is an obvious choice - incredibly witty and openly gay, he sadly brought about his own demise by reacting to a taunt from the Marquess of Queensberry, his beloved "Bosie" (Lord Alfred Douglas)'s father. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/o/oscar_wilde.html

On the "gay hero" side I think you should look at sports personalities rather than pop stars, otherwise you're down to Elton John, Boy George and anything in between such as Adam Lambert, none of whom really fit my idea of a "hero" no matter how entertaining they are as singers.

Try people like Lee Pearson, the Paralympian who has won 10 Paralympic gold medals, a silver and a bronze and six paralympic world championships and who has competed against some of the best riders in the world on their terms and won, becoming British National Dressage Champion. He's my personal choice, as he's a genuine "hero" and role model for anyone. A really incredible and inspiring man - "The best of it is I change people's thoughts and perceptions just by getting on with life, not by campaigning." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/lee-pearson-i-prepare-with-curry-malibu-and-coke-8060070.html.

Gareth Thomas, ex-Captain of the Welsh Rugby team with over 100 appearances for Wales internationally, certainly breaks the mould of what a gay man is expected to be like. "I don't want to be known as a gay rugby player. I am a rugby player, first and foremost I am a man". He didn't come out while still playing for Wales, but since coming out he has been an active supporter of ChildLine - "I don't know if my life is going to be easier because I'm out, but if it helps someone else, if it makes one young lad pick up the phone to ChildLine, then it will have been worth it". http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1168953/index.htm

Orlando Cruz, who's also hardly your stereotype gay as one of the top boxers at his weight in the world - http://www.policymic.com/articles/16119/orlando-cruz-gay-first-openly-gay-boxer-could-change-contact-sports-forever

Greg Louganis, Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova fit the gay stereotype rather more, but all have advanced gay acceptance and been role models, as well as being active in gay rights..

Renee Richards, who competed in the US Open in both men's and women's tennis after GRS.

Glenn Burke, the first openly gay baseball player in the American major League, as far back as 1977.

Parinya Charoenphol, better known as Nong Thoom or Beautiful Boxer, the Muay Thai champion.

I'd certainly support transam's nomination of Alan Turing - a genius, a patriot, and most definitely an icon because of the appalling way he was treated. The Bill to pardon him, 60 years after his death, passed its second reading in the House of Lords last month and is due to be given its third reading in October, then to go to the Commons. .http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/jul/19/enigma-codebreaker-alan-turing-posthumous-pardon

.

Edited August 8, 2013 by LeCharivari

[Jingthing]

Nikolay Alexeyev is officially a gay "hero" according to Los Angeles and Vancouver Pride awards, but as he claims to be personally responsible for bringing homosexuality into Russian politics and to Vladimir Putin's attention, and consequently directly responsible for provoking the recent Russian anti-gay laws, many Russian gays probably just wish he'd kept his mouth shut and heeded the warnings of his fellow Russian gay activists.

I don't agree. That was presented in a tone as if it was a factoid (that consequently directly responsible language) when it is actually very biased speculative opinion. I am disgusted to hear continued blame placed on any gay Russian activists for dictator Putin's scapegoating of Russian gays. You don't blame the persecuted for their persecution. That is just morally evil at the most basic level. That is my opinion. Not presented as a fact.

No, I am not saying gay activists always have done the right thing, or the smart thing, or been lucky enough to choose the perfect timing of what they do.

I AM saying there is NO excuse, NO rationalization to shift the blame when you have a situation like this, a small hated minority group being scapegoated and persecuted. Yes, that consciousness comes as much from being a JEW as being gay.

Also note, didn't the OP ask for gay heroes? If that's the case, why suggest someone who you consider a VILLAIN?

BTW: yes, TURING, what a hero!

Edited August 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[transam]

There are times when sexual stuff, man or lady, means nothing to THEIR job in hand. Turing drove himself to his limits to try and solve something to save our freedom and lives. He did that and saved many lives, but a few years later, after his achievement was achieved, was persecuted for his own desires. I am not happy with that.

[Jingthing]

There are times when sexual stuff, man or lady, means nothing to THEIR job in hand. Turing drove himself to his limits to try and solve something to save our freedom and lives. He did that and saved many lives, but a few years later, after his achievement was achieved, was persecuted for his own desires. I am not happy with that.

Yes, my admiration, gratitude, and sympathy to that man is enormous.

[sustento]

How about Achilles and Alexander?

[transam]

The late Jeremy Brett. For me at times there have been acting icons, David Suchet IS Hercule Poirot and for sure Jeremy Brett is the absolute, no question, Sherlock Holmes. Though the Tv series have long gone, please do a google and watch a master at his work.

PS. As far as I am aware David Suchet is not gay, just making a comparison of great acting talent for a particular role.

Edited August 9, 2013 by transam

[LeCharivari]

Nikolay Alexeyev is officially a gay "hero" according to Los Angeles and Vancouver Pride awards, but as he claims to be personally responsible for bringing homosexuality into Russian politics and to Vladimir Putin's attention, and consequently directly responsible for provoking the recent Russian anti-gay laws, many Russian gays probably just wish he'd kept his mouth shut and heeded the warnings of his fellow Russian gay activists.

I don't agree. That was presented in a tone as if it was a factoid (that consequently directly responsible language) when it is actually very biased speculative opinion. I am disgusted to hear continued blame placed on any gay Russian activists for dictator Putin's scapegoating of Russian gays. You don't blame the persecuted for their persecution. That is just morally evil at the most basic level. That is my opinion. Not presented as a fact.

No, I am not saying gay activists always have done the right thing, or the smart thing, or been lucky enough to choose the perfect timing of what they do.

I AM saying there is NO excuse, NO rationalization to shift the blame when you have a situation like this, a small hated minority group being scapegoated and persecuted. Yes, that consciousness comes as much from being a JEW as being gay.

Also note, didn't the OP ask for gay heroes? If that's the case, why suggest someone who you consider a VILLAIN?

BTW: yes, TURING, what a hero!

I'll answer your questions, as that is what I have been previously admonished for not doing, but at the same time I'll try to stay on topic and to respond to the rest of your mis-representation of what I have said in the relevant thread.

You are fully entitled to disagree - that is what a "discussion" on "gay issues" is all about.

I, also, am entitled to disagree.

This thread is about "Gay Heroes/Icons". According to the Los Angeles and Vancouver Gay Prides Nikolay Alexeyev is a "GAY HERO". I DISAGREE. I think he is a GAY IDIOT because of what he did. HE said that "From 1993 to 2005, the topic was mostly out of the political sphere" (homosexuality was decriminalised in Russia in 1993); HE said that "Not until 2005, when our organization Gay Russia appeared, did it start to come back on the political agenda.....We have managed to bring the issue of rights for homosexual people on the political agenda, which was not the case in 2005.....So in two years we really managed to bring this issue into the political agenda. The Russian President Vladimir Putin for the first time said something on gay issues. This is the biggest achievement." That is HIS opinion of HIS actions. That, to me, makes him a GAY IDIOT, NOT A GAY ICON.

Any further discussion of who is to blame for what, etc, is off-topic and should be confined to the relevant thread without de-railing this one.

This thread is about "Gay Heroes/Icons". If anyone had nominated Norman Beresford Tebbitt as a "Gay Hero/Icon" I would have disagreed (and like to think I would have been entitled to do so). Los Angeles and Vancouver Gay Prides have previously named Nikolay Alexeyev a "Gay Hero". I disagree. I don't think that just being gay should give anyone some sort of immunity from criticism - that is simply my opinion.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, sure, Alexeyev could have predicted that LATER Putin would turn into the human rights abusing monster that he has become. Maybe you think he SHOULD have been able to predict that, fine, that's your opinion. Timing is tricky. It is open for debate (its easy to say in RETROSPECT about the timing) but when a dictator persecutes a disliked small minority, the BLAME on who does that is crystal clear. Dude, you don't get to order other people what they can or can't comment on, so don't even bother. You brought up Alexeyev and then you DEMONIZED him ... on this thread. It's not a one way street. Not only your comment and someone else isn't allowed to rebut it. Discussion forums don't work that way. Cheers.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

How about Achilles and Alexander?

The fixation with "pigeonholing" everyone and the introduction of the term "homosexual" in the 1870's / 1880's means that some people dismiss anything before then as not being "gay", which I find rather absurd, but I think their achievements and their humanity make them both gay heroes and gay icons.

They get my vote (even though both could have been a bit "bi"!)

[sustento]

This thread is about "Gay Heroes/Icons". If anyone had nominated Norman Beresford Tebbitt as a "Gay Hero/Icon" I would have disagreed (and like to think I would have been entitled to do so).

Just wait till he marries his son. He'll be a gay hero then...

[Jingthing]

Gay as an IDENTITY group is a modern western concept.

Gay as in homosex ... isn't.

[Simhne]

Peter Tatchell is definitely a hero of mine. I met him once off a train in Manchester in about 94 to take him to an event but I can't remember what the event was although I do remember he was promoting his book on safer sex at it. Great man who lives by his convictions.

How about Lily Savage? I used to go and see her at the Vauxhall Tavern in London in the early 90's, fantastic although Adrella was better.

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

jingthing gets my vote, but not for poster of the year

[LeCharivari]

Peter Tatchell is definitely a hero of mine. I met him once off a train in Manchester in about 94 to take him to an event but I can't remember what the event was although I do remember he was promoting his book on safer sex at it. Great man who lives by his convictions.

How about Lily Savage? I used to go and see her at the Vauxhall Tavern in London in the early 90's, fantastic although Adrella was better.

"...lives by his convictions" ... Probably why he was a total failure as a politician - he wouldn't have fitted in at all.

Edited August 9, 2013 by LeCharivari

[Jingthing]

jingthing gets my vote, but not for poster of the year

No worries. I reckon I'm blacklisted for life from that horror.

[Thaddeus]

Gay as an IDENTITY group is a modern western concept.

Gay as in homosex ... isn't.

Just stop you there, can you explain that in easy to understand English.

[Jingthing]

Gay as an IDENTITY group is a modern western concept.

Gay as in homosex ... isn't.

Just stop you there, can you explain that in easy to understand English.

Here's a start for you.

http://www.nickyee.com/ponder/social_construction.html

Constructing Homosexuality

Let’s explore a particular socially-constructed category in more depth. Homosexuality is a recent Western concept (Foucault, 1980) unique among the conceptualization of male-male sexual bonds of other cultures in several ways. Where the western concept of homosexuality assumes a life-long predisposition, other cultures have typically construed male-male sexual bonds as temporary phases, as in the initiation rites of tribes in New Guinea or ancient Crete, or age-based relationships – such as in ancient Greece. An even more profound uniqueness of the Western concept of homosexuality is revealed when it is contrasted with how male-male sexual and romantic bonds were treated in Imperial China where several male emperors were known to have had male harems and favorite male concubines, and also where male prostitution (for male clients) was prevalent up to the end of the Qing Dynasty. The reason why there was no word for homosexuality in Chinese was because it was never seen as a defining or integral part of a person’s identity. Male-male sexual and romantic bonds were construed as relationships between two people as opposed to a psychological essence that defined either person. Moreover, these same-sex bonds were seen as a perfectly acceptable and natural way of life in Imperial China (Hinsch, 1992).

Edited August 9, 2013 by Jingthing

[sustento]

Gay as an IDENTITY group is a modern western concept.

Gay as in homosex ... isn't.

Just stop you there, can you explain that in easy to understand English.

Please no. You really don't want to go there Thads.

[Jingthing]

Gay as an IDENTITY group is a modern western concept.

Gay as in homosex ... isn't.

Just stop you there, can you explain that in easy to understand English.

Please no. You really don't want to go there Thads.

He already did. It isn't really a fresh, new idea. It's pretty much universally understood in academic circles.

[Simhne]

Peter Tatchell is definitely a hero of mine. I met him once off a train in Manchester in about 94 to take him to an event but I can't remember what the event was although I do remember he was promoting his book on safer sex at it. Great man who lives by his convictions.

How about Lily Savage? I used to go and see her at the Vauxhall Tavern in London in the early 90's, fantastic although Adrella was better.

 

"...lives by his convictions" ... Probably why he was a total failure as a politician - he wouldn't have fitted in at all.

How do you mean "failure" LeC? When he stood for Bermondsey in the 80s he was the focus of violent homophobic attacks including an orchestrated campaign by the Liberal Party's Simon Hughes. He wasn't elected.

[Jingthing]

Greg Louganis!

Currently involved as a gay ACTIVIST fighting Putin's persecution of gay Russians.

Louganis will marry soon in a U.S. marriage equality state. His marriage will be fully recognized under the federal laws of the United States.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jun/18/entertainment/la-et-mg-greg-louganis-engaged-gay-sports-hall-of-fame-20130617

Edited August 10, 2013 by Jingthing