Abhisit’s opposition against Thai amnesty bill relentless

[billd766]

After the coup they would not let Thaksin return, why? They were afraid. After he was sentenced to gaol time they wanted him back, why? They were afraid of him being free, even outside Thailand. Why do they oppose the amnesty bill? They are afraid of his return. If Thaksin does not have widespread support as the opposition claim, then let him back and the sooner the better. Then hopefully this matter can be laid to rest, it is time to move on. Too much time is being wasted over Thaksin and it is getting silly. In the end the people will decide and every dog has his day, perhaps his day has already been had. Pass the bill, waste no more time, is Thaksin any worse than the others in Thailand or internationally, I doubt it. Let the people speak at the next election and dont do any electioneering for him by keeping his name at the forefront of Thai politics.

Thaksin came back.

He agreed to abide by the verdict of the courts and then ran away, skipped his bail and didn't even appeal against his sentence.

He has ALWAYS been able to come back.

However IF he comes back without an amnesty clearing him of all past and current charges and spends even one day in jail he cannot ever legally be an MP or PM again as the law and constitution of Thailand forbids it.

If he does come back whitewashed and pure Thailand can forget reconciliation at look at many years of retribution from Thaksin.

[hellodolly]

Abhisit's fixation on the Bill belies his party's lack of policy. The legislation will pass amd time and resources will have been squandered on navel gazing.

The Democrats have a duty to constructively criticize legislation, this Bill included. However, while all the attention is focused on this one Bill, other legislation goes unchallenged. An opposition party should function as the nation's watchdog, raising legitimate concerns about government policy. Unfortunately, the Democrats just can't manage the process or put forward viable, workable alternatives.

There is an issue of corruption in Thailand. The Democrats could have staked out an unassailable position as the party of integrity and the leaders in the fight against corruption. It failed to do so. It's southern power center is now under investigation and being exposed layer by layer. I have the impression that Abhisit seeks to distract the attention away from the serious issues in Phuket regarding some very highly placed Democrat supporters and allies. The DSI just named names in Phuket and it has serious ramifications for Abhisit's party.

Now you are being silly. Do you think opposing white washing Thaksin and letting him come back to Thailand is not fighting corruption. to not do so would be acting with out integrity. Thaksin is the biggest problem facing Thailand now. It must be faced now. Do you really honestly and truly believe the PTP is willing to wait?

If the Dems are successful in stopping the white wash of Thaksin it will mean the end for the PTP. How can you not say that is truly putting an end to the current corruption in the government. Even larger than when Thaksin was PM

the big question is why do you want it ignored?

The Thaksin issue is to Thailand what the manifestation of an oozing rash is to an infection. Thaksin isn't the problem. Rather the socio-economic conditions of Thailand created Thaksin. Tomorrow, if Thaksin vaporized, a new "rebel" would fill his designer boutique shoes. As long as a handful of families and their allies and assorted minions control the country, the country cannot progress. There will always be an opportunity for some demagogue to take the opportunity to claim the mantle as spokesman for the majority of Thailand's population, who are have nots.

Thailand needs a leader who will advance a progressive agenda. It might require the upending of several social conventions and even long held Thai traditions. As long as Thailand denies itself an effective multi party political system, there won't be progress. You are labouring under the misconception that the return of Thaksin would result in his anointing as the leader of Thailand. It won't happen anytime soon. The man would have to win an election and if he was running as the PM candidate for the PTP, he would be resoundingly defeated.

The Democrats are the party of the oligarchy. Try as they might, they do not have the human touch and Abhisit will never be able to connect with the tens of millions of Thais who have been left out of the nation's drive to prosperity. Thaksin, for all of his faults, understood the regular Somchai. He got it, the same way a Reagan, Putin, Blair, Thatcher did. The aforementioned were hardly friends of the working man, but they could speak to them in terms people understood. They could create an emotional bond, and give their respective electorates hope. Abhisit can't do this. Instead, he obsesses on Thaksin. If Abhisit and his puppet masters really wanted to show that they were different and could make a positive difference they would come out full force against corruption. Unfortunately, while the Phuket corruption crisis worsened, he hasn't said one word that might upset his southern power base. Abhisit hangs on to the Thaksin issue, because it is all he has. He couldn't even take a boat to an oil damaged island zone without stirring up ridicule of his silly photo op.

You say

"The Thaksin issue is to Thailand what the manifestation of an oozing rash is to an infection. Thaksin isn't the problem. Rather the socio-economic conditions of Thailand created Thaksin. Tomorrow, if Thaksin vaporized, a new "rebel" would fill his designer boutique shoes. As long as a handful of families and their allies and assorted minions control the country, the country cannot progress. There will always be an opportunity for some demagogue to take the opportunity to claim the mantle as spokesman for the majority of Thailand's population, who are have nots."

Thaksin was and is not the creator of the sociology-economic problems of Thailand. He is how ever an opportunist who saw a way to use them to seize power and put it completely under his control. He has had a few set backs but in the end he has complete control. With his removal there is no one with enough clout to step into his shoes. Thailand would be in a position to take a step closer to Democracy.

Thaksin has power over so many people with his money and favors. These people will not allow some one to come along and hold them under there boots again. They will all want more than what Thaksin offered them.

You went on to say

"Thailand needs a leader who will advance a progressive agenda"

True and in Abhist they have such a man. But as you say he has not been able to connect with the poor people. The people who really don't care about Thailand's future. Give them 500 baht today for their vote and they will eat for a week and nothing else matters to them. Unlike Thaksin Abhist is offering them a possibility for a future not a pipe dream (give me six months and I will make you all rich) so the fact is even though they would be better off with Abhist that is reality and they choose the dreams offered and not delivered by Thaksin.

Ask yourself if you had the same education as them would you vote for some one trying to build a better future for you or some one making promises that are nothing more than pipe dreams .

[kirk0233]

Just get on with it. Let the idiot thug back so other topics will be available in the news. His return would have little to no effect on the majority of thais or expats. Stealing is occuring in absentia from the Thais under his direction without dissent from the locals. I serously wonder who cares if he returns. It would merely allow him the opportunity to provide local supervison of his ongoing plundering of Thailand's treasure.

[Billmont]

After the coup they would not let Thaksin return, why? They were afraid. After he was sentenced to gaol time they wanted him back, why? They were afraid of him being free, even outside Thailand. Why do they oppose the amnesty bill? They are afraid of his return. If Thaksin does not have widespread support as the opposition claim, then let him back and the sooner the better. Then hopefully this matter can be laid to rest, it is time to move on. Too much time is being wasted over Thaksin and it is getting silly. In the end the people will decide and every dog has his day, perhaps his day has already been had. Pass the bill, waste no more time, is Thaksin any worse than the others in Thailand or internationally, I doubt it. Let the people speak at the next election and dont do any electioneering for him by keeping his name at the forefront of Thai politics.

Thaksin came back.

He agreed to abide by the verdict of the courts and then ran away, skipped his bail and didn't even appeal against his sentence.

He has ALWAYS been able to come back.

However IF he comes back without an amnesty clearing him of all past and current charges and spends even one day in jail he cannot ever legally be an MP or PM again as the law and constitution of Thailand forbids it.

If he does come back whitewashed and pure Thailand can forget reconciliation at look at many years of retribution from Thaksin.

.......many years of retribution from Thaksin??? So as I said... they are still afraid of him. Why? Still too much support from the population? I would like to see this 'support' tested, let him return a free man and move on. Many other convicted persons have returned in this way, even murderers, so why not Thaksin. This saga must stop for the good of Thailand, let the people decide or are they afraid of them as well???

[billd766]

After the coup they would not let Thaksin return, why? They were afraid. After he was sentenced to gaol time they wanted him back, why? They were afraid of him being free, even outside Thailand. Why do they oppose the amnesty bill? They are afraid of his return. If Thaksin does not have widespread support as the opposition claim, then let him back and the sooner the better. Then hopefully this matter can be laid to rest, it is time to move on. Too much time is being wasted over Thaksin and it is getting silly. In the end the people will decide and every dog has his day, perhaps his day has already been had. Pass the bill, waste no more time, is Thaksin any worse than the others in Thailand or internationally, I doubt it. Let the people speak at the next election and dont do any electioneering for him by keeping his name at the forefront of Thai politics.

Thaksin came back.

He agreed to abide by the verdict of the courts and then ran away, skipped his bail and didn't even appeal against his sentence.

He has ALWAYS been able to come back.

However IF he comes back without an amnesty clearing him of all past and current charges and spends even one day in jail he cannot ever legally be an MP or PM again as the law and constitution of Thailand forbids it.

If he does come back whitewashed and pure Thailand can forget reconciliation at look at many years of retribution from Thaksin.

.......many years of retribution from Thaksin??? So as I said... they are still afraid of him. Why? Still too much support from the population? I would like to see this 'support' tested, let him return a free man and move on. Many other convicted persons have returned in this way, even murderers, so why not Thaksin. This saga must stop for the good of Thailand, let the people decide or are they afraid of them as well???

Why SHOULD he return a free man? He IS still a convicted fugitive and he should come back to complete his sentence but if he does he CANNOT EVER be in any government in any position legally. THAT is the reason why he wants amnesty and a whitewash.

AFAIR an amnesty is granted by the King and on the condition that the person has served part of his sentence AND shown genuine remorse. Thaksin has done neither.

[Billmont]

Why SHOULD he return a free man? He IS still a convicted fugitive and he should come back to complete his sentence but if he does he CANNOT EVER be in any government in any position legally. THAT is the reason why he wants amnesty and a whitewash.

AFAIR an amnesty is granted by the King and on the condition that the person has served part of his sentence AND shown genuine remorse. Thaksin has done neither.

If you want to quote me then please have the courtesy to answer the question I raised. Why are they so afraid of Thaksin? If you want to harp on about why he should not serve his sentence please do so in separate posts, the forum is all yours! Even you mention about retribution and serving again as an MP or even PM but he has to be elected first. Will he be reelected, I am not so sure as you seem to be? All this bitterness is not going to be resolved by this continuing bickering inside and outside of parliament. I am neither for or against, I am not Thai and cannot vote so open it up and let the people decide is my opinion and hopefully the situation will be resolved one way or the other. One thing for sure the way it is at the moment is not good for the country and continually trying to keep him isolated will gain him more support. Clear thinking is needed by those in power and in opposition and personal animosities should be forgotten for the sake and benefit of Thailand.

[h90]

After the coup they would not let Thaksin return, why? They were afraid. After he was sentenced to gaol time they wanted him back, why? They were afraid of him being free, even outside Thailand. Why do they oppose the amnesty bill? They are afraid of his return. If Thaksin does not have widespread support as the opposition claim, then let him back and the sooner the better. Then hopefully this matter can be laid to rest, it is time to move on. Too much time is being wasted over Thaksin and it is getting silly. In the end the people will decide and every dog has his day, perhaps his day has already been had. Pass the bill, waste no more time, is Thaksin any worse than the others in Thailand or internationally, I doubt it. Let the people speak at the next election and dont do any electioneering for him by keeping his name at the forefront of Thai politics.

To get the facts right.

Thaksin was in Thailand during the court case and free. He was free on bail he fly outside Thailand with the permission of the court (but never came back). He found guilty, but could have appeal (even from outside Thailand) than as courts are slow in Thailand he would be free on bail another 1-2 years.

And during this time Samak (who called himself Thaksins nominee) and Somchai (Thaksins brother in law) where in power not the army.

[hellodolly]

Why SHOULD he return a free man? He IS still a convicted fugitive and he should come back to complete his sentence but if he does he CANNOT EVER be in any government in any position legally. THAT is the reason why he wants amnesty and a whitewash.

AFAIR an amnesty is granted by the King and on the condition that the person has served part of his sentence AND shown genuine remorse. Thaksin has done neither.

If you want to quote me then please have the courtesy to answer the question I raised. Why are they so afraid of Thaksin? If you want to harp on about why he should not serve his sentence please do so in separate posts, the forum is all yours! Even you mention about retribution and serving again as an MP or even PM but he has to be elected first. Will he be reelected, I am not so sure as you seem to be? All this bitterness is not going to be resolved by this continuing bickering inside and outside of parliament. I am neither for or against, I am not Thai and cannot vote so open it up and let the people decide is my opinion and hopefully the situation will be resolved one way or the other. One thing for sure the way it is at the moment is not good for the country and continually trying to keep him isolated will gain him more support. Clear thinking is needed by those in power and in opposition and personal animosities should be forgotten for the sake and benefit of Thailand.

You say

"Clear thinking is needed by those in power and in opposition and personal animosities should be forgotten for the sake and benefit of Thailand."

Exactly making the white washing of Thaksin the main aim of a government is not clear thinking.. It is forcing the clear thinking Democrats into a battle that if won will be a victory for the majority of the population. It will force the existing government into working for The welfare of Thailand a radical change from their policy of fill there pockets full of money no matter what damage it does to the population rice scheme build dams with no consideration for the ecology or the people. Built high speed Rail roads to where they are not needed. Allow the deterioration of the preset rail road system.

All those things are acceptable to the PTP to fight them it takes clear thinking not just roll over and play dead.

[tominbkk]

After the coup they would not let Thaksin return, why? They were afraid. After he was sentenced to gaol time they wanted him back, why? They were afraid of him being free, even outside Thailand. Why do they oppose the amnesty bill? They are afraid of his return. If Thaksin does not have widespread support as the opposition claim, then let him back and the sooner the better. Then hopefully this matter can be laid to rest, it is time to move on. Too much time is being wasted over Thaksin and it is getting silly. In the end the people will decide and every dog has his day, perhaps his day has already been had. Pass the bill, waste no more time, is Thaksin any worse than the others in Thailand or internationally, I doubt it. Let the people speak at the next election and dont do any electioneering for him by keeping his name at the forefront of Thai politics.

Thaksin came back.

He agreed to abide by the verdict of the courts and then ran away, skipped his bail and didn't even appeal against his sentence.

He has ALWAYS been able to come back.

However IF he comes back without an amnesty clearing him of all past and current charges and spends even one day in jail he cannot ever legally be an MP or PM again as the law and constitution of Thailand forbids it.

If he does come back whitewashed and pure Thailand can forget reconciliation at look at many years of retribution from Thaksin.

.......many years of retribution from Thaksin??? So as I said... they are still afraid of him. Why? Still too much support from the population? I would like to see this 'support' tested, let him return a free man and move on. Many other convicted persons have returned in this way, even murderers, so why not Thaksin. This saga must stop for the good of Thailand, let the people decide or are they afraid of them as well???

Why SHOULD he return a free man? He IS still a convicted fugitive and he should come back to complete his sentence but if he does he CANNOT EVER be in any government in any position legally. THAT is the reason why he wants amnesty and a whitewash.

AFAIR an amnesty is granted by the King and on the condition that the person has served part of his sentence AND shown genuine remorse. Thaksin has done neither.

Exactly. He has done quite the opposite, commanding his red shirt peasant troops to topple the government.

[Billmont]

After the coup they would not let Thaksin return, why? They were afraid. After he was sentenced to gaol time they wanted him back, why? They were afraid of him being free, even outside Thailand. Why do they oppose the amnesty bill? They are afraid of his return. If Thaksin does not have widespread support as the opposition claim, then let him back and the sooner the better. Then hopefully this matter can be laid to rest, it is time to move on. Too much time is being wasted over Thaksin and it is getting silly. In the end the people will decide and every dog has his day, perhaps his day has already been had. Pass the bill, waste no more time, is Thaksin any worse than the others in Thailand or internationally, I doubt it. Let the people speak at the next election and dont do any electioneering for him by keeping his name at the forefront of Thai politics.

To get the facts right.

Thaksin was in Thailand during the court case and free. He was free on bail he fly outside Thailand with the permission of the court (but never came back). He found guilty, but could have appeal (even from outside Thailand) than as courts are slow in Thailand he would be free on bail another 1-2 years.

And during this time Samak (who called himself Thaksins nominee) and Somchai (Thaksins brother in law) where in power not the army.

Like those who have taken sides you can read the past the way you wish. One thing Thaksin is not and that is stupid. Perhaps he could see the writing on the wall and got out while he could. Both the PM's you mention were removed and not by the people in an election. Even the party they represented was dissolved. This matter can be discussed for another 7 years as it has since the coup and no progress will be made unless concessions are made by both sides. Please remember that even if not a majority then at least a sizable minority feel cheated and all the bickering at the top will not resolve this.

In the end it has to be resolved to the peoples satisfaction. All over the world entrenched sides had to talk, South Africa, Northern Ireland, the embassy take over in Iran, to give just a few examples, had to be settled by talks and concessions. The USA are now trying to engage the Talaban unthinkable a few years ago, the same will have to happen with Thaksin if Thailand is to move on. Bitterness against Taksin as shown by the many hundreds of TV Forum posts will not solve the problem nor will the same attitude by many senior politicians. I try to remain neutral, neither for or against Thaksin but see little progress by present positions. Something has to change by all and give up the idea of just winning, there are many examples all over the world that clearly show than an outright win is not possible and the people must be given a free chance to vote for their choice, win or lose, for this stalemate to be sensibly resolved.

[billd766]

Why SHOULD he return a free man? He IS still a convicted fugitive and he should come back to complete his sentence but if he does he CANNOT EVER be in any government in any position legally. THAT is the reason why he wants amnesty and a whitewash.

AFAIR an amnesty is granted by the King and on the condition that the person has served part of his sentence AND shown genuine remorse. Thaksin has done neither.

If you want to quote me then please have the courtesy to answer the question I raised. Why are they so afraid of Thaksin? If you want to harp on about why he should not serve his sentence please do so in separate posts, the forum is all yours! Even you mention about retribution and serving again as an MP or even PM but he has to be elected first. Will he be reelected, I am not so sure as you seem to be? All this bitterness is not going to be resolved by this continuing bickering inside and outside of parliament. I am neither for or against, I am not Thai and cannot vote so open it up and let the people decide is my opinion and hopefully the situation will be resolved one way or the other. One thing for sure the way it is at the moment is not good for the country and continually trying to keep him isolated will gain him more support. Clear thinking is needed by those in power and in opposition and personal animosities should be forgotten for the sake and benefit of Thailand.

You say that Thaksin has to be elected.

Actually he does NOT need to be elected in ANY constituency in Thailand.

He WILL be the No1 party candidate as was Yingluck and the PTP party leadership nominated her on the instructions of her brother Thaksin who in effect IS the PTP as he owns and bankrolls it.

Why do you think that Ministers and MPs fly to meet Thaksin outside the country?

HE is the patron who bestows (probably for a percentage) the positions of power and influence or did you think that Yingluck does it all on her own?

The ONLY clear thinking by those in power in the PTP government is to get Thaksin home pure as the driven snow so that he WILL rule the country HIS way and retribution and most probably blood will flow.

[Billmont]

Why SHOULD he return a free man? He IS still a convicted fugitive and he should come back to complete his sentence but if he does he CANNOT EVER be in any government in any position legally. THAT is the reason why he wants amnesty and a whitewash.

AFAIR an amnesty is granted by the King and on the condition that the person has served part of his sentence AND shown genuine remorse. Thaksin has done neither.

If you want to quote me then please have the courtesy to answer the question I raised. Why are they so afraid of Thaksin? If you want to harp on about why he should not serve his sentence please do so in separate posts, the forum is all yours! Even you mention about retribution and serving again as an MP or even PM but he has to be elected first. Will he be reelected, I am not so sure as you seem to be? All this bitterness is not going to be resolved by this continuing bickering inside and outside of parliament. I am neither for or against, I am not Thai and cannot vote so open it up and let the people decide is my opinion and hopefully the situation will be resolved one way or the other. One thing for sure the way it is at the moment is not good for the country and continually trying to keep him isolated will gain him more support. Clear thinking is needed by those in power and in opposition and personal animosities should be forgotten for the sake and benefit of Thailand.

You say that Thaksin has to be elected.

Actually he does NOT need to be elected in ANY constituency in Thailand.

He WILL be the No1 party candidate as was Yingluck and the PTP party leadership nominated her on the instructions of her brother Thaksin who in effect IS the PTP as he owns and bankrolls it.

Why do you think that Ministers and MPs fly to meet Thaksin outside the country?

HE is the patron who bestows (probably for a percentage) the positions of power and influence or did you think that Yingluck does it all on her own?

The ONLY clear thinking by those in power in the PTP government is to get Thaksin home pure as the driven snow so that he WILL rule the country HIS way and retribution and most probably blood will flow.

Why would he need to return to run the country his way? According to you he is doing that already. You forget one small thing, if at the next election his party does not win how will he be PM, in fact or behind the scenes? Are you saying the majority in Thailand want him as PM? If so what is the problem, if not also no problem? it is the people who will decide, its called democracy.