Stop stealing the 18-20 percent of the countries G.D.P.!

What..!!!!..This is the standard "fee" for Polies during their tenure in Government......cannot stop, and will not stop in our lifetime!

Due to inflation the fee is 25-30% nowadays.

I thought these trains were going to be built by the Chinese and be outside the control of the SRT?

The Chinese have expressed varied interests from financing (high interest sof loans), to aiding in construction, to providing rolling stock and other associated systems. Regardless of the operational model chosen if HSR gets built, Thailand will own at least 51% (if a PPP or JV of sorts)... no foreign country / entity, be it Chinese, Japanese, or otherwise will have a majority stake. I believe the off-budget bill working its way through parliament will also mean that most of funding will be from domestic sources, likely some combination of the Ministry of Finance and commercial lenders.

I thought everything was going to come from China. Now, a system completely built and installed by the Chinese is one thing. A system bought by the Thais and partly installed by Thais is completely something else.

I wouldn't expect them to have a majority, but I would expect them to at least be heavily involved in construction and ongoing maintenance. If not, it could be no better in terms of safety than what they have now.

What is indefensible about wanting to build a decent railway system (even at the cost of billions of the national currency, as in France, Switzerland and Germany, where the trains are magnificent, but totally unprofitable)? (/Also, as I recall, for those worried about "mountains" near Chiang Mai, the TGV goes through the mountains to get from Paris to Turin.)

I notice you quote that idiot Reagan in your contribution....surely you have no idea about the immense amount of debt that Reagan accumulated during his presidency, setting the tone for later spendthrifts like Dubya Bush and the present incumbent.

So are you in favour of accumulating huge debt or not? The current proposal is to borrow the money to improve the rail system while wasting resources on populism.

What would you think about using state resources to improve railways, while borrowing for populism? What is the difference except semantics?

I am leaving alone the argument that the HSR proposal is "decent", but there is no intention to build it to Chiang Mai; the current proposal stops at P'lock and let private industry continue the line - or not, which seems much more likely.

Edited August 11, 201312 yr by OzMick

Shouldn't be too hard to ' uplift the living standards for Thais ' because it can't go any lower for many tens of thousands. I wonder if any of the government have tried to live on 500 baht a month which is what they expect pensioners to do. Thailand, the country that never ceases to amaze.....

Perhaps they should bring in the real experts on railways -- Triang and Hornby 00

There's been no substantial investment in the rail system for decades. Now someone comes along and says we're going to invest and you all put the boot in. I hope you're feeling better now.

I've said it before, they should start with BKK and get that area working first, that's the choke point for the entire country. A decent double track out to Don Muang and Ayyutayah would be magic, a decent line from Swampy to Patts even better. Isaan should be regarded as a project in of it's self, it should be relatively easy to double track and improve the town to town carriage there.

Right now we in the North would be content with rails that actually stayed on the track so re laying and stabilizing the track would be great. We don't need high speed trains, just double tacks where possible and modern rolling stock. If people can get out out BKK quickly that would be highly appreciated by everyone, if they need to change trains at an outer terminus people would do it if it saved hours of travel.

BKK is the key, grow out from there and get on with it

There's been no substantial investment in the rail system for decades. Now someone comes along and says we're going to invest and you all put the boot in. I hope you're feeling better now.

I've said it before, they should start with BKK and get that area working first, that's the choke point for the entire country. A decent double track out to Don Muang and Ayyutayah would be magic, a decent line from Swampy to Patts even better. Isaan should be regarded as a project in of it's self, it should be relatively easy to double track and improve the town to town carriage there.

Right now we in the North would be content with rails that actually stayed on the track so re laying and stabilizing the track would be great. We don't need high speed trains, just double tacks where possible and modern rolling stock. If people can get out out BKK quickly that would be highly appreciated by everyone, if they need to change trains at an outer terminus people would do it if it saved hours of travel.

BKK is the key, grow out from there and get on with it

Put the boot in? Only in regards to the financing, and the need for HSR. Wasting money on populism when there are badly needed infrastructure projects is simply economic stupidity, but may pass the test of political rationalism (who cares about the country as long as we re-elected).

Saying there is a NEED to borrow when wasting resources is deceit.

There's been no substantial investment in the rail system for decades. Now someone comes along and says we're going to invest and you all put the boot in. I hope you're feeling better now.

I've said it before, they should start with BKK and get that area working first, that's the choke point for the entire country. A decent double track out to Don Muang and Ayyutayah would be magic, a decent line from Swampy to Patts even better. Isaan should be regarded as a project in of it's self, it should be relatively easy to double track and improve the town to town carriage there.

Right now we in the North would be content with rails that actually stayed on the track so re laying and stabilizing the track would be great. We don't need high speed trains, just double tacks where possible and modern rolling stock. If people can get out out BKK quickly that would be highly appreciated by everyone, if they need to change trains at an outer terminus people would do it if it saved hours of travel.

BKK is the key, grow out from there and get on with it

Put the boot in? Only in regards to the financing, and the need for HSR. Wasting money on populism when there are badly needed infrastructure projects is simply economic stupidity, but may pass the test of political rationalism (who cares about the country as long as we re-elected).

Saying there is a NEED to borrow when wasting resources is deceit.

Mick, you do know that when people can afford something without borrowing, they sometimes still choose to borrow as it makes long term economic sense?

Perhaps they should bring in the real experts on railways -- Triang and Hornby 00

Which although designed-in-UK, are actually manufactured in China, these days.

There's been no substantial investment in the rail system for decades. Now someone comes along and says we're going to invest and you all put the boot in. I hope you're feeling better now.

I've said it before, they should start with BKK and get that area working first, that's the choke point for the entire country. A decent double track out to Don Muang and Ayyutayah would be magic, a decent line from Swampy to Patts even better. Isaan should be regarded as a project in of it's self, it should be relatively easy to double track and improve the town to town carriage there.

Right now we in the North would be content with rails that actually stayed on the track so re laying and stabilizing the track would be great. We don't need high speed trains, just double tacks where possible and modern rolling stock. If people can get out out BKK quickly that would be highly appreciated by everyone, if they need to change trains at an outer terminus people would do it if it saved hours of travel.

BKK is the key, grow out from there and get on with it

Put the boot in? Only in regards to the financing, and the need for HSR. Wasting money on populism when there are badly needed infrastructure projects is simply economic stupidity, but may pass the test of political rationalism (who cares about the country as long as we re-elected).

Saying there is a NEED to borrow when wasting resources is deceit.

Mick, you do know that when people can afford something without borrowing, they sometimes still choose to borrow as it makes long term economic sense?

Totally correct, the country has to address this serious infrastructure problem now, and if that means borrowing to do so then it has to take the decision as it's an essential economic and strategic initiative.

There's been no substantial investment in the rail system for decades. Now someone comes along and says we're going to invest and you all put the boot in. I hope you're feeling better now.

I've said it before, they should start with BKK and get that area working first, that's the choke point for the entire country. A decent double track out to Don Muang and Ayyutayah would be magic, a decent line from Swampy to Patts even better. Isaan should be regarded as a project in of it's self, it should be relatively easy to double track and improve the town to town carriage there.

Right now we in the North would be content with rails that actually stayed on the track so re laying and stabilizing the track would be great. We don't need high speed trains, just double tacks where possible and modern rolling stock. If people can get out out BKK quickly that would be highly appreciated by everyone, if they need to change trains at an outer terminus people would do it if it saved hours of travel.

BKK is the key, grow out from there and get on with it

Put the boot in? Only in regards to the financing, and the need for HSR. Wasting money on populism when there are badly needed infrastructure projects is simply economic stupidity, but may pass the test of political rationalism (who cares about the country as long as we re-elected).

Saying there is a NEED to borrow when wasting resources is deceit.

Mick, you do know that when people can afford something without borrowing, they sometimes still choose to borrow as it makes long term economic sense?

Are you suggesting that this is the case here and now? What is the economic sense of wasting badly needed resources when there are infrastructure projects needed now?

In fact, if the estimated trillion baht wasted had been applied to railways, who would be complaining?

There's been no substantial investment in the rail system for decades. Now someone comes along and says we're going to invest and you all put the boot in. I hope you're feeling better now.

I've said it before, they should start with BKK and get that area working first, that's the choke point for the entire country. A decent double track out to Don Muang and Ayyutayah would be magic, a decent line from Swampy to Patts even better. Isaan should be regarded as a project in of it's self, it should be relatively easy to double track and improve the town to town carriage there.

Right now we in the North would be content with rails that actually stayed on the track so re laying and stabilizing the track would be great. We don't need high speed trains, just double tacks where possible and modern rolling stock. If people can get out out BKK quickly that would be highly appreciated by everyone, if they need to change trains at an outer terminus people would do it if it saved hours of travel.

BKK is the key, grow out from there and get on with it

Put the boot in? Only in regards to the financing, and the need for HSR. Wasting money on populism when there are badly needed infrastructure projects is simply economic stupidity, but may pass the test of political rationalism (who cares about the country as long as we re-elected).

Saying there is a NEED to borrow when wasting resources is deceit.

Mick, you do know that when people can afford something without borrowing, they sometimes still choose to borrow as it makes long term economic sense?

Totally correct, the country has to address this serious infrastructure problem now, and if that means borrowing to do so then it has to take the decision as it's an essential economic and strategic initiative.

The country had an infrastructure problem 2 years ago, when it was decided to institute the corrupt rice scheme. The only thing that has changed since then is a trillion baht has been wasted and stolen by those in government.

^^ No it hasn't, the government knows exactly where the money is, it's just not where it's meant to be.

We all know the rice scheme is a fiasco. Go bang another drum.

The trains are an entirely different issue. The vast amount of money required to bring them up to standard is a reflection of collective stupidity in the past. The sooner they start the better.