Question for CTH satellite subscribers

[paul1970]

What is your signal strength and quality like ?

to check signal strength and quality

press "menu"

scroll the options at the bottom of the screen with left/right arrow keys until "setting" is under the blue arrow

use up/down arrow keys to highlight "dish setting"

press "OK"

when asked for password, enter 0000

you should then get a screen that has "strength" and "Quality" shown near the bottom.

It would be good if you could put your figures up here to get a feel of what's good or bad.

I have 3 box's and figures are as below so far with the lower strength number daytime and increasing slightly at night (hot clear day). This is on the darkside of Pattaya but it would be interesting to see all areas as a comparison.

Box 1

Strength 74-77%

Quality 54%

Box 2

Strength 87-89%

Quality 56%

Box 3

Strength 72-74%

Quality 54%

Now idiot who installed it was saying 54% quality, velly good, this was after he was going to mount the dish behind some trees until I forced him to mount it at a part of the house with a clear view east. Now in my mind 54% sounds mediocre so be interesting to see what other are getting ?

I've heard that CTH suffers a lot from "rain fade", makes sense as they are using the Ku band which is more effected by rain/clouds than the C band that True uses. If I get any issues with rain fade then I will try a bigger dish. Right now I'm going to coat the dish and LNB with Rain X, the stuff used on car windscreens, so any rain will run off the dish instead of sticking to it. Don't know if it helps but some AV forums seem to say that it helps slightly with rain fade.

[stoneyboy]

It must be raining,I have no picture.

No only joking,I will have a butchers and report back later.

[JakeBKK]

Generally speaking: go bigger. if you increase the size of your dish from 80 cm to 160 cm you gain around 6 dBi. This may only show as one bar on your set-top box, but you will have a better picture when it is raining.

Edited August 11, 2013 by JakeBKK

[angryfarang]

I'm down here on Samui. I have a 1.5m Ku band dish with unobstructed line of sight to the satellite (no trees, etc)

My signal is 85% and quality is 54%.

At the moment I have no picture on any channel, so I guess it's raining in Vietnam.

By the way, True uses Ku band as well.

[monty]

Signal quality is what counts, not strength.

Unfortunately every receiver has a different way reporting strength, so you need to know the box to know what percentage is good and what becomes borderline.

Vinasat actually has pretty strong transponders, but as the elevation is lower then for example Thaicom, the distance to the satellite is bigger.

No problem for strength/quality, apart from the fact you have a higher percentage chance of somewhere having a downpour going through the line of sight between your dish and the satellite.

It is actually the raindrops creating rain fade, not a wet dish. Very often signal will drop out due to rainfade while it's not even raining where you are but somewhere far away.

The lower the elevation, the further away a rainstorm can be to influence your reception. With a very high elevation, the rainstorm virtually has to be on top of you to cut out signal.

Only one thing which helps, is a bigger dish. Every extra dB gain doubles your reception!

A 90 cm solid dish will already see a big improvement, with a 120 cm dish I doubt you'll see much rainfade at all.

We're talking solid offset dishes just like you have now, only bigger. The big black mesh ones are not much good for Ku band, I guess you need almost 2 sizes bigger to get the same gain compared to offset solid!

[angryfarang]

Monty - what about high gain LNB's?

[paul1970]

 

I'm down here on Samui. I have a 1.5m Ku band dish with unobstructed line of sight to the satellite (no trees, etc)

My signal is 85% and quality is 54%.

At the moment I have no picture on any channel, so I guess it's raining in Vietnam.

By the way, True uses Ku band as well.

 

Just checked, have a picture here in Pattaya. I have the standard CTH dish currently wich I think is 75cm. Didn't realise True was Ku as well.

[monty]

Btw, i have two systems at home , one on Thaicom and one on vinasat. Using 60cm dishes.

I have had many times with a local rainstorm that thaicom drops out while vinasat remains strong.

Actualle less so the other way, but using the same dishes vinasat always comes in with much better quality.

Vinasat going just fine as we write.

[paul1970]

Signal quality is what counts, not strength.

Unfortunately every receiver has a different way reporting strength, so you need to know the box to know what percentage is good and what becomes borderline.

Vinasat actually has pretty strong transponders, but as the elevation is lower then for example Thaicom, the distance to the satellite is bigger.

No problem for strength/quality, apart from the fact you have a higher percentage chance of somewhere having a downpour going through the line of sight between your dish and the satellite.

It is actually the raindrops creating rain fade, not a wet dish. Very often signal will drop out due to rainfade while it's not even raining where you are but somewhere far away.

The lower the elevation, the further away a rainstorm can be to influence your reception. With a very high elevation, the rainstorm virtually has to be on top of you to cut out signal.

Only one thing which helps, is a bigger dish. Every extra dB gain doubles your reception!

A 90 cm solid dish will already see a big improvement, with a 120 cm dish I doubt you'll see much rainfade at all.

We're talking solid offset dishes just like you have now, only bigger. The big black mesh ones are not much good for Ku band, I guess you need almost 2 sizes bigger to get the same gain compared to offset solid!

Thanks Monty, I asked the installer about putting a larger dish but typically it was another thai with no clue, first wanting to install the dish behind some trees and when I asked about a larger dish he replied "big dish make no difference mister" I just gave up at that point and let him complete the install.

I will wait to see how much effect rain fade will have but will probably up the dish size, BTW any recommendations of a shop to buy a larger dish ?

Would an in-line signal booster help minimise effects of rain fade or are these only to minimize losses from long cable runs ?

Good to know the mesh ones are not much good as I was actually looking at these yesterday, that bit of advice has probably saved me from a bad purchase.

[monty]

Monty - what about high gain LNB's?

 

In my experience, not much difference.

Proper equipment meaning offset dish mated with offset lnb, prime focus mated with prime focus lnb. In Pattaya I've seen many prime focus dishes (the black mesh ones) with a plain jane offset lnb. Does not work properly, your 7ft dish will perform as a 75cm offset dish! Simply bigger is not always better!

Then, careful alignment of the dish, in azimuth , elevation AND skew of the lnb. Using a decent satellite finder, NOT using the regular receiver with someone shouting strength and quality to the bloke moving the dish!

A 160 cm offset dish properly aligned should have virtually no rainfade! Not on Vinasat anyway.

[monty]

Signal quality is what counts, not strength.

Unfortunately every receiver has a different way reporting strength, so you need to know the box to know what percentage is good and what becomes borderline.

Vinasat actually has pretty strong transponders, but as the elevation is lower then for example Thaicom, the distance to the satellite is bigger.

No problem for strength/quality, apart from the fact you have a higher percentage chance of somewhere having a downpour going through the line of sight between your dish and the satellite.

It is actually the raindrops creating rain fade, not a wet dish. Very often signal will drop out due to rainfade while it's not even raining where you are but somewhere far away.

The lower the elevation, the further away a rainstorm can be to influence your reception. With a very high elevation, the rainstorm virtually has to be on top of you to cut out signal.

Only one thing which helps, is a bigger dish. Every extra dB gain doubles your reception!

A 90 cm solid dish will already see a big improvement, with a 120 cm dish I doubt you'll see much rainfade at all.

We're talking solid offset dishes just like you have now, only bigger. The big black mesh ones are not much good for Ku band, I guess you need almost 2 sizes bigger to get the same gain compared to offset solid!

Thanks Monty, I asked the installer about putting a larger dish but typically it was another thai with no clue, first wanting to install the dish behind some trees and when I asked about a larger dish he replied "big dish make no difference mister" I just gave up at that point and let him complete the install.

I will wait to see how much effect rain fade will have but will probably up the dish size, BTW any recommendations of a shop to buy a larger dish ?

Would an in-line signal booster help minimise effects of rain fade or are these only to minimize losses from long cable runs ?

Good to know the mesh ones are not much good as I was actually looking at these yesterday, that bit of advice has probably saved me from a bad purchase.

Inline boosters do not help at all with rainfade. If your lnb doesn't see signal, then there is nothing to boost!

They are usefull with long cable runs (50 m and more), or when you plan to split the signal 3 or more ways using passive splitters.

Bigger dishes in Pattaya will be a hard find. Bangkok suppliers usually stock them.

Example:

http://www.9sat.com/product/product.detail.php?&cat=50.52&id=156

[monty]

I'm down here on Samui. I have a 1.5m Ku band dish with unobstructed line of sight to the satellite (no trees, etc)

My signal is 85% and quality is 54%.

At the moment I have no picture on any channel, so I guess it's raining in Vietnam.

By the way, True uses Ku band as well.

Looking at your numbers, compared to the ones from Paul1970, if your dish is a proper offset Ku band dish (solid, lnb not sitting in the center of the dish but lower), then either your dish/lnb is not aligned properly, or there is some issue with the signal getting from the lnb to your receiver.

Your signal strength/quality should be much higher then what Paul's receiver indicate.

[angryfarang]

Monty - yes, after seeing Paul's I definitely agree.

Sorry, mine is actually a 1.2m dish. These same as this one:

http://www.9sat.com/product/product.detail.php?&cat=50.52&id=156

When I have some time I'll re-align it myself, it's on the wall so easy to access.

I was thinking about trying some high gain LNB's as well.

[pattayadingo]

Signal quality is what counts, not strength.

Unfortunately every receiver has a different way reporting strength, so you need to know the box to know what percentage is good and what becomes borderline.

Vinasat actually has pretty strong transponders, but as the elevation is lower then for example Thaicom, the distance to the satellite is bigger.

No problem for strength/quality, apart from the fact you have a higher percentage chance of somewhere having a downpour going through the line of sight between your dish and the satellite.

It is actually the raindrops creating rain fade, not a wet dish. Very often signal will drop out due to rainfade while it's not even raining where you are but somewhere far away.

The lower the elevation, the further away a rainstorm can be to influence your reception. With a very high elevation, the rainstorm virtually has to be on top of you to cut out signal.

Only one thing which helps, is a bigger dish. Every extra dB gain doubles your reception!

A 90 cm solid dish will already see a big improvement, with a 120 cm dish I doubt you'll see much rainfade at all.

We're talking solid offset dishes just like you have now, only bigger. The big black mesh ones are not much good for Ku band, I guess you need almost 2 sizes bigger to get the same gain compared to offset solid!

Thanks Monty, I asked the installer about putting a larger dish but typically it was another thai with no clue, first wanting to install the dish behind some trees and when I asked about a larger dish he replied "big dish make no difference mister" I just gave up at that point and let him complete the install.

I will wait to see how much effect rain fade will have but will probably up the dish size, BTW any recommendations of a shop to buy a larger dish ?

Would an in-line signal booster help minimise effects of rain fade or are these only to minimize losses from long cable runs ?

Good to know the mesh ones are not much good as I was actually looking at these yesterday, that bit of advice has probably saved me from a bad purchase.

Sukhumvit Road heading between Klang & Thai on the left. Nearer to Thai than Klang.

Slow down near the new big bike shop and you will see some sat dishes on a low wall. They have a variety of dish sizes.

95% sure their phone number is 038427869 - 70

The guy in reception speaks some English but he does have a contact who speaks very good English on the phone.

Edited August 11, 2013 by pattayadingo

[angryfarang]

Would any of these LNB's work for Vinasat 2?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNOMATE-TM-2-HIGH-GAIN-GOLD-0-1dB-TWIN-LNB-/221095864591?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_LNBs&hash=item337a57290f

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INVERTO-BLACK-ULTRA-HIGH-GAIN-TWIN-LNB-/221055358579?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_LNBs&hash=item3377ed1673

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TWIN-LNB-LMB-DUAL-DOUBLE-SATELLITE-SIGNAL-RECEIVER-LOW-NOISE-HIGH-GAIN-INVERTO-2-/350503836343?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_LNBs&hash=item519ba81ab7

[monty]

Would any of these LNB's work for Vinasat 2?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNOMATE-TM-2-HIGH-GAIN-GOLD-0-1dB-TWIN-LNB-/221095864591?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_LNBs&hash=item337a57290f

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INVERTO-BLACK-ULTRA-HIGH-GAIN-TWIN-LNB-/221055358579?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_LNBs&hash=item3377ed1673

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TWIN-LNB-LMB-DUAL-DOUBLE-SATELLITE-SIGNAL-RECEIVER-LOW-NOISE-HIGH-GAIN-INVERTO-2-/350503836343?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_LNBs&hash=item519ba81ab7

The Inverto Black Ultra and the Technomate will definitely work, the other one most likely but they don't specify it's a universal (dual band). Assume it is as they state it works with all European satellites.

Although you wouldn't need a dual output LNB, all the CTH channels are on vertical transponders so if you have more then one receivers, you could just use splitters to feed them all.

But as I said before, it's a waste of money!

Those LNB's might be useful if hunting for marginal signals, i.e. when trying to receive satellite signals outside their intended footprint (for example Astro on Measat), but the vinasat transponders are so strong those LNB's will absolutely make no difference at all.

If your signal drops away using a 120 cm dish, while at the same time over here it's still working on a 60 cm and 75 cm dish, there is something else wrong!

[ignis]

Question........

Have not got much knowledge of these things..........

10 years ago had fitted a black mesh 7ft -MOVE- dish, it is high up on the roof at the back of the house, had a new upgraded LBN fitted a couple of years ago, mostly the dish is pointing at 'Vinasat ' very good picture,,,,,,, No do not get HD picture in the bedrooms as still use the old Dreambox 500 [have 3], but have Full HD on my SKYBOX HD downstairs

Strength 87-99%

Quality 65%

Have a small TRUE dish pointing at ASTRO also pickup TRUE [ fee ones] on this dish have 2 LBN on the one dish, on the front of house, looks like rain and picture is gone or full of pixels...

So wanted CTH, they can only install as a set......!!!! with the little blue dish, As I have NO problems with the big mesh dish cannot see the point of having yet another dish ?

yet more cables ? another hole in the wall ?

Just feel sure the big dish I already have is better.. or is it ? advise please

If it is better then maybe just pay the fee to the engineer to install but not install keep as spare in junk room..........

[angryfarang]

Would any of these LNB's work for Vinasat 2?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNOMATE-TM-2-HIGH-GAIN-GOLD-0-1dB-TWIN-LNB-/221095864591?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_LNBs&hash=item337a57290f

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INVERTO-BLACK-ULTRA-HIGH-GAIN-TWIN-LNB-/221055358579?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_LNBs&hash=item3377ed1673

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TWIN-LNB-LMB-DUAL-DOUBLE-SATELLITE-SIGNAL-RECEIVER-LOW-NOISE-HIGH-GAIN-INVERTO-2-/350503836343?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_LNBs&hash=item519ba81ab7

The Inverto Black Ultra and the Technomate will definitely work, the other one most likely but they don't specify it's a universal (dual band). Assume it is as they state it works with all European satellites.

Although you wouldn't need a dual output LNB, all the CTH channels are on vertical transponders so if you have more then one receivers, you could just use splitters to feed them all.

But as I said before, it's a waste of money!

Those LNB's might be useful if hunting for marginal signals, i.e. when trying to receive satellite signals outside their intended footprint (for example Astro on Measat), but the vinasat transponders are so strong those LNB's will absolutely make no difference at all.

If your signal drops away using a 120 cm dish, while at the same time over here it's still working on a 60 cm and 75 cm dish, there is something else wrong!

Thanks Monty. In the past when using a splitter with true I noticed it halved the signal as well. I tested by removing it. I tried another splitter to confirm it wasn't faulty and had the same issue.

I have two CTH boxes, so will probably buy the dual LNB

[monty]

Question........

Have not got much knowledge of these things..........

10 years ago had fitted a black mesh 7ft -MOVE- dish, it is high up on the roof at the back of the house, had a new upgraded LBN fitted a couple of years ago, mostly the dish is pointing at 'Vinasat ' very good picture,,,,,,, No do not get HD picture in the bedrooms as still use the old Dreambox 500 [have 3], but have Full HD on my SKYBOX HD downstairs

Strength 87-99%

Quality 65%

Have a small TRUE dish pointing at ASTRO also pickup TRUE [ fee ones] on this dish have 2 LBN on the one dish, on the front of house, looks like rain and picture is gone or full of pixels...

So wanted CTH, they can only install as a set......!!!! with the little blue dish, As I have NO problems with the big mesh dish cannot see the point of having yet another dish ?

yet more cables ? another hole in the wall ?

Just feel sure the big dish I already have is better.. or is it ? advise please

If it is better then maybe just pay the fee to the engineer to install but not install keep as spare in junk room..........

The small dish with two LNB's is not a very good solution, the dish is actually aimed at Astro (the weakest signal which will drop out anyway when it rains, normally need at least a 90 cm dish), and then they use an LNB out of the center of the focus point of the dish to receive True, which is also not perfect as with the LNB out of the center it does not perform as well. Hence that one will also go down more quickly then usual when it rains.

Regarding the big dish, do you plan on keeping the Vietnamese channels? If so, it might be better to let them install the small dish, as you will not be able to watch CTH and Vietnamese channels simultaneously (one sits on horizontal polarization, the other vertical).

As long as your Skybox (or dreambox) is active, you will not be able to receive CTH, you would have to power down your dreamboxes and skybox to allow the CTH box to work!

If you do not intend to keep the Vietnamese stuff, do as said, let them hook up the big dish and store the small dish!

[monty]

Would any of these LNB's work for Vinasat 2?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNOMATE-TM-2-HIGH-GAIN-GOLD-0-1dB-TWIN-LNB-/221095864591?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_LNBs&hash=item337a57290f

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INVERTO-BLACK-ULTRA-HIGH-GAIN-TWIN-LNB-/221055358579?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_LNBs&hash=item3377ed1673

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TWIN-LNB-LMB-DUAL-DOUBLE-SATELLITE-SIGNAL-RECEIVER-LOW-NOISE-HIGH-GAIN-INVERTO-2-/350503836343?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_LNBs&hash=item519ba81ab7

The Inverto Black Ultra and the Technomate will definitely work, the other one most likely but they don't specify it's a universal (dual band). Assume it is as they state it works with all European satellites.

Although you wouldn't need a dual output LNB, all the CTH channels are on vertical transponders so if you have more then one receivers, you could just use splitters to feed them all.

But as I said before, it's a waste of money!

Those LNB's might be useful if hunting for marginal signals, i.e. when trying to receive satellite signals outside their intended footprint (for example Astro on Measat), but the vinasat transponders are so strong those LNB's will absolutely make no difference at all.

If your signal drops away using a 120 cm dish, while at the same time over here it's still working on a 60 cm and 75 cm dish, there is something else wrong!

Thanks Monty. In the past when using a splitter with true I noticed it halved the signal as well. I tested by removing it. I tried another splitter to confirm it wasn't faulty and had the same issue.

I have two CTH boxes, so will probably buy the dual LNB

Lower signal strength is usually not much of a problem, your receiver will compensate, and if needed easily rectified with a 120 Baht line amp.

As long as the signal quality doesn't go down too much (normally shouldn't) , it should be no issue using a splitter.

[crazykopite]

You would think in this day and age that all dishes could work in harmony I have now a CTH Dish and True Dish mounted on the same wall pointing in opposite directions however having had wall socket ariels built into the property I only have one coax line which then leads to all rooms ny body got any ideas would like to keep True as the wife likes the Life style channels ( Silver package )

[taotoo]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but if my True box has 100% strength but only 18% quality, does that mean that my LNB has somehow got rotated?

[monty]

You would think in this day and age that all dishes could work in harmony I have now a CTH Dish and True Dish mounted on the same wall pointing in opposite directions however having had wall socket ariels built into the property I only have one coax line which then leads to all rooms ny body got any ideas would like to keep True as the wife likes the Life style channels ( Silver package )

Basically because the wiring to all your outlets was likely done wrong!

They often just "loop" the television cable around the house using splitters (or Taps) to every room. This way, every room gets the exact same signal, be it satellite dish or cable TV.

Instead, if each and every room would have one cable running to a central place, then what you want is easily done.

Simply feed any and all dishes/LNB's you might have to that central point, into a satellite multi-switch, and presto, in every room you have reception from all your satellite dishes through the one cable going to that room.

You do need a satellite installer who knows a bit more then average, as the receivers will have to be properly set up so that they can request the proper signal from the multi-switch.

So perfectly "doable" in this day and age as long as the wiring in your house is laid out properly.

[monty]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but if my True box has 100% strength but only 18% quality, does that mean that my LNB has somehow got rotated?

Possible. Also possible is that the cable is compromised and picks up loads of noise. Also possible the LNB got fried. Or your receiver

Not sure on the True boxes, but is it normal they show 100% strength?

[paul1970]

 

Sorry to hijack this thread, but if my True box has 100% strength but only 18% quality, does that mean that my LNB has somehow got rotated?

 

My True box's all show a quality of 100% and the quality bargraph is near the bottom and underneath the bargraph a value of about 70e-07, the quality is being shown as BER or bit error rate so the lower the better. Mine box doesn't show quality as a %age so maybe we have different boxes.

[taotoo]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but if my True box has 100% strength but only 18% quality, does that mean that my LNB has somehow got rotated?

Possible. Also possible is that the cable is compromised and picks up loads of noise. Also possible the LNB got fried. Or your receiver

Not sure on the True boxes, but is it normal they show 100% strength?

Thanks - seems like it could be anything then. Was hoping for a quick fix, though it holds up when it's raining okay so maybe's there's no problem. Not sure if it's normal or not - have nothing to compare it to.

[taotoo]

 

Sorry to hijack this thread, but if my True box has 100% strength but only 18% quality, does that mean that my LNB has somehow got rotated?

 

My True box's all show a quality of 100% and the quality bargraph is near the bottom and underneath the bargraph a value of about 70e-07, the quality is being shown as BER or bit error rate so the lower the better. Mine box doesn't show quality as a %age so maybe we have different boxes.

Ah - I think I have the same box as you and therefore the low reading on the bargraph is a good thing... I must have just assumed it was labelled as % - the 70e-07 thing feels familiar.

[ignis]

The small dish with two LNB's is not a very good solution, the dish is actually aimed at Astro (the weakest signal which will drop out anyway when it rains, normally need at least a 90 cm dish), and then they use an LNB out of the center of the focus point of the dish to receive True, which is also not perfect as with the LNB out of the center it does not perform as well. Hence that one will also go down more quickly then usual when it rains.

Regarding the big dish, do you plan on keeping the Vietnamese channels? If so, it might be better to let them install the small dish, as you will not be able to watch CTH and Vietnamese channels simultaneously (one sits on horizontal polarization, the other vertical).

As long as your Skybox (or dreambox) is active, you will not be able to receive CTH, you would have to power down your dreamboxes and skybox to allow the CTH box to work!

If you do not intend to keep the Vietnamese stuff, do as said, let them hook up the big dish and store the small dish!

Many thanks, No Vietnamese channels in English or in HD, only appear Free to view on public holidays, rest of the time all are in Vietnamese...

.If I do a scan it shows both H and V channels searching on the scan, few months ago there was some CTH channels showing some cartoons and some talk channels never looked to see if they were on H or V. just let the box do it search then save.

Just looked there are 640 channels on Vinsat,,,,,,,,,, Most are scrambled, but guess that is VTC, VTV, HTVC and K+ and thought the others were maybe CTH ?

but maybe not

So get them to plug in the cable from the big dish and see, if not good then use there dish

Edit: Another Question, can you on there Box edit the channels ? [also have done on the dreambox for years and on the newer Skybox = 1st channels are all what I watch. it is so much easier]

Edited August 11, 2013 by ignis

[ignis]

AS a PS.......... just looked can find 72 CTH channels.......... All are Scrambled ............. maybe more free to air ones ? cannot see off hand.

[monty]

CTH will not have any FTA channels.

Did you do the scan with your skybox? Notmally it should be over 100 Channels, but I guess not all transponders are programmed in your box.

---edit----

must be with the skybox, as CTH is all DVD-S2 which a dreambox cannot receive...

Here you can see all the transponder frequencies used by CTH:

http://www.lyngsat.com/Vinasat-2.html