Fiber transceiver for CAT?

[angryfarang]

After spending a week with CAT engineers trying to get them to put their modem in bridge mode, I give up.

I'll just buy a transceiver. Does anyone know what type I need? I believe there are two types, single and multi mode.

[muratremix]

Why you desperately need bridge mode?

Just set a DMZ IP to your wireless router, such as 192.168.1.2.

WAN of your router: 192.168.1.2 (STATIC IP), DHCP range 192.168.0.X

You can do whatever you want with this setup. No need to change modem whatsoever.

[angryfarang]

I want my equipment to make the PPPoE connection.

[muratremix]

I want my equipment to make the PPPoE connection.

I don't think you can simply buy a new fiber modem and expect it to work with PPPoE.

Just stick to STATIC IP / DMZ method. It will save you the trouble and money. You can use your own modem without double NAT problem this way and set up port forwarding / everything on your wireless router.

I'm using my True Ultra 20Mbit cable internet this way and never had a problem.

[angryfarang]

Thanks for you reply. I understand your method, but this isn't what I'm looking to do, or the question I am asking. I am asking if anyone knows if CAT telecom use multi or single mode fiber.

Yes, you can use a fiber transceiver and router (running PPPoE) - this is how CAT originally made their fiber installs, the installed a transceiver and a WRT54GL running PPPoE.

I have set up a lot of these systems for my clients. We always use the modem (either 3BB ADSL or TOT FIber in pure bridge mode) then we use a Mikrotik RB1100 to do the main processing. I want to take advantage of its dual core CPU and and 2Gb of RAM.

Now, with a normal 3BB modem you can do this in the GUI. But with a CAT or TOT fiber modem, you need to request the engineer does this from their control panel on their server. I have a contact within TOT that does this for me no problem, however CAT are scratching their heads when we ask them, so I will just buy a transceiver.

[JakeBKK]

Thanks for you reply. I understand your method, but this isn't what I'm looking to do, or the question I am asking. I am asking if anyone knows if CAT telecom use multi or single mode fiber.

Yes, you can use a fiber transceiver and router (running PPPoE) - this is how CAT originally made their fiber installs, the installed a transceiver and a WRT54GL running PPPoE.

I have set up a lot of these systems for my clients. We always use the modem (either 3BB ADSL or TOT FIber in pure bridge mode) then we use a Mikrotik RB1100 to do the main processing. I want to take advantage of its dual core CPU and and 2Gb of RAM.

Now, with a normal 3BB modem you can do this in the GUI. But with a CAT or TOT fiber modem, you need to request the engineer does this from their control panel on their server. I have a contact within TOT that does this for me no problem, however CAT are scratching their heads when we ask them, so I will just buy a transceiver.

yeah, i have a sound idea where you are going there. i don't understand why you are running fibre and the router on PPPoE. One instance should be sufficient to handle the link management. The stock firmware on those GL is a medicore disaster.

Help me out here: WTH of routing information you have to process inside the RB? I am afraid your setup does not really make sense.

You are hooking up a high end router to a straw. Enlighten me ! If you let me know where you're located at i gladly hook you up with some engineers at cat. I found them actually quite able and competent.

[angryfarang]

Jake,

I own and run an IT & Wireless business here on Samui.

This setup is for a hotspot for a large hotel. We are using a 100Mb fiber from CAT.

We ask to put the modem in bridge mode so it is just making the physical connection, the RB1100 does all the rest. I have setup literally hundreds of systems this way. It's my way of doing things.

We use such a high end router because it will run a variety of services and we want to be able to support at least 200 concurrent connections (for busy periods) with Level 7 traffic shaping. This requires a high end unit.

So basically the RB1100 will...

Make PPPoE connection to ISP

Level 7 Traffic Shaping

DNS Proxy

Hotspot

VPN

Cheers.

[JakeBKK]

Jake,

I own and run an IT & Wireless business here on Samui.

This setup is for a hotspot for a large hotel. We are using a 100Mb fiber from CAT.

We ask to put the modem in bridge mode so it is just making the physical connection, the RB1100 does all the rest. I have setup literally hundreds of systems this way. It's my way of doing things.

We use such a high end router because it will run a variety of services and we want to be able to support at least 200 concurrent connections (for busy periods) with Level 7 traffic shaping. This requires a high end unit.

So basically the RB1100 will...

Make PPPoE connection to ISP

Level 7 Traffic Shaping

DNS Proxy

Hotspot

VPN

Cheers.

Yup, i do understand that you have to put the focus on your experience. Still the dual PPPoE does not make sense. Never mind. Let's play around with your set-up here for a moment.

1) you fibre link connection is persistent - no PPPoE inside your RB needed.

2) 200 connections on a 100MB/s link and you do shaping on L7 , good for you. I assume you know how many concurrent connections your link can handle? It is slightly more then 200 , just as a hint.

3 + 4) Don't know what fancy radius solution u r using for your hotspot, but even if i look inside your router that is the wrong place for a ticket printer. you can cache dozens of dns servers and requests in 512 kB of memory.

5) VPN? really? initiated by the router? why? uhm, bull......? Let's assume you do this for a big hotel chain. It still would be a VPN from the terminal to the server. NO, not from the hotel Intranet to the server.

Sorry, than there is you asking here on a public board ? With " I have setup literally hundreds of systems this way." of experience? Dude, this job could be done with a RaspberryPi.

[rakman]

Usually people use multi-mode fiber for up to 2 km from the source.

Also, you may find on the cable in small black print what size the core is.

Multi-mode is 62.5/125 micron or 50/125 micron. Single mode is typically 8 or 10.5/125 micron.

Cables can sometimes be distinguished by jacket color: for 62.5/125 µm (OM1) and 50/125 µm (OM2), orange jackets are recommended, while Aqua is recommended for 50/125 µm "laser optimized" OM3 and OM4 fiber.

Single mode fiber jacket is usually yellow.

The connector type isn't necessarily an indicator of cable type. But color may give it away. Blue is typical for single mode, grey for multi-mode.

You may also find the specs of the CAT modem on the web, or possibly look at the manufacturer tag on the unit.

[innerspace]

Recently had a cat and tot fibre installed and planning similar.

Not done yet but my cat router looked simple to accomplish bridge mode....sure i saw the option.

My tot fibre didnt even have upnp, no chance of dmz and no bridge option....possibly remote by techs though.

[JakeBKK]

Usually people use multi-mode fiber for up to 2 km from the source.

Also, you may find on the cable in small black print what size the core is.

Multi-mode is 62.5/125 micron or 50/125 micron. Single mode is typically 8 or 10.5/125 micron.

Cables can sometimes be distinguished by jacket color: for 62.5/125 µm (OM1) and 50/125 µm (OM2), orange jackets are recommended, while Aqua is recommended for 50/125 µm "laser optimized" OM3 and OM4 fiber.

Single mode fiber jacket is usually yellow.

The connector type isn't necessarily an indicator of cable type. But color may give it away. Blue is typical for single mode, grey for multi-mode.

You may also find the specs of the CAT modem on the web, or possibly look at the manufacturer tag on the unit.

Good one. Saw the techs in bangkok and pattaya. In bkk nothing is going without a logic analyser and cable plan. In pattaya you only encounter this

[montereyjp]

It is most surely Single mode if the cable comes from the street and terminates in the LIU (the little white box the cable terminates into).. If a large multi-tenant bullding it could be multi-mode riser cables coming from BDF and in turn patched to the LIU.... To be certain as JakeBKK said you need to spec the cable, the LIU or the patch cable.. Did they leave the the patch cable?The one they used to connect their bridge? Now it so happens I have a CAT media converter in my hands having just shutdown I service I had to support some activities out on a beach... Model CTC Frm 220-ch01... You can look it up.. the problem is there are multiple line cards available. The one I have uses Single uni-port type of receptor that uses a single connector..ie both transmit and receive happens on what looks like it is a single piece of fiber..

In closing.. if they did not leave the patch cord you will need the appropriate one that match the mode and the type of receptors in the LIU and converter.. hopes this help..

[angryfarang]

Jake,

I own and run an IT & Wireless business here on Samui.

This setup is for a hotspot for a large hotel. We are using a 100Mb fiber from CAT.

We ask to put the modem in bridge mode so it is just making the physical connection, the RB1100 does all the rest. I have setup literally hundreds of systems this way. It's my way of doing things.

We use such a high end router because it will run a variety of services and we want to be able to support at least 200 concurrent connections (for busy periods) with Level 7 traffic shaping. This requires a high end unit.

So basically the RB1100 will...

Make PPPoE connection to ISP

Level 7 Traffic Shaping

DNS Proxy

Hotspot

VPN

Cheers.

Yup, i do understand that you have to put the focus on your experience. Still the dual PPPoE does not make sense. Never mind. Let's play around with your set-up here for a moment.

Where are you getting this dual PPPoE from? I want to make a single PPPoE connection made from the Routerboard to the ISP?

2) 200 connections on a 100MB/s link and you do shaping on L7 , good for you. I assume you know how many concurrent connections your link can handle? It is slightly more then 200 , just as a hint.

I'm sorry, am I not allowed to set up a system with plenty of overhead?...

5) VPN? really? initiated by the router? why? uhm, bull......? Let's assume you do this for a big hotel chain. It still would be a VPN from the terminal to the server. NO, not from the hotel Intranet to the server.

Wow. You really don't have a clue, or know anything about RouterOS. You are making comments on a system set up you have never seen. Sigh... My hotspot set up is completely separate from any of the hotels systems.

My routerboard is set up with OpenVPN client to make secure connections to my primary and secondary radius servers which are hosted on Amazon EC2. It also runs PPTP server so that I can make a secure connection from outside. Is this OK with you?

Sorry, than there is you asking here on a public board ? With " I have setup literally hundreds of systems this way." of experience?

Yes, I am asking on a public board if anyone knows if CAT fiber is single or multimode, I am not asking for advise on my hotspot set up.

Dude, this job could be done with a RaspberryPi.

Yeah right. I'm sure a RaspberryPi could copy with L7 traffic shaping.

[angryfarang]

It is most surely Single mode if the cable comes from the street and terminates in the LIU (the little white box the cable terminates into).. If a large multi-tenant bullding it could be multi-mode riser cables coming from BDF and in turn patched to the LIU.... To be certain as JakeBKK said you need to spec the cable, the LIU or the patch cable.. Did they leave the the patch cable?The one they used to connect their bridge? Now it so happens I have a CAT media converter in my hands having just shutdown I service I had to support some activities out on a beach... Model CTC Frm 220-ch01... You can look it up.. the problem is there are multiple line cards available. The one I have uses Single uni-port type of receptor that uses a single connector..ie both transmit and receive happens on what looks like it is a single piece of fiber..

In closing.. if they did not leave the patch cord you will need the appropriate one that match the mode and the type of receptors in the LIU and converter.. hopes this help..

Thanks for info. I'm out and about today, so will go check on a few of their media converters.

[JakeBKK]

Yup, i do understand that you have to put the focus on your experience. Still the dual PPPoE does not make sense. Never mind. Let's play around with your set-up here for a moment.

Where are you getting this dual PPPoE from? I want to make a single PPPoE connection made from the Routerboard to the ISP?

Even if you go for single auth , there are timing issues which prevent you from what you like to archive there. This is a general issue in-between signal timing and not related to the hardware you are using.

2) 200 connections on a 100MB/s link and you do shaping on L7 , good for you. I assume you know how many concurrent connections your link can handle? It is slightly more then 200 , just as a hint.

I'm sorry, am I not allowed to set up a system with plenty of overhead?...

No, hell no! Nothing wrong with quite a bit of spare bandwidth ! IMHO overhead is something else, but if it works for you, it will work for me. Yeah well, you mind telling me why you shape there?

5) VPN? really? initiated by the router? why? uhm, bull......? Let's assume you do this for a big hotel chain. It still would be a VPN from the terminal to the server. NO, not from the hotel Intranet to the server.

Wow. You really don't have a clue, or know anything about RouterOS. You are making comments on a system set up you have never seen. Sigh... My hotspot set up is completely separate from any of the hotels systems.

It's not upon me to be right here. There are several guiding principles how to run *nix systems. And frankly, I don't have to see your ctg files to understand why you have an issue with your uplink, while your radius requests are running fine.

I may be a moron here, but why don't you have a look into /var/log/ or wherever you'd put it - and you will see that there is a timing issue.

My routerboard is set up with OpenVPN client to make secure connections to my primary and secondary radius servers which are hosted on Amazon EC2. It also runs PPTP server so that I can make a secure connection from outside. Is this OK with you?

Don't be so posh! i mean OpenVPN or OpenSwan are a proper solutions. I'm not sure if i would hang it into a cloud, while it would run nicely on a virtual machine on my own hardware. Okay, you tunnel from your windows box, i prefer to have a hardened ssh connection and do my shit command line.. It will work anyway. Never mind.

Sorry, than there is you asking here on a public board ? With " I have setup literally hundreds of systems this way." of experience?

Yes, I am asking on a public board if anyone knows if CAT fiber is single or multimode, I am not asking for advise on my hotspot set up.

As lovely as Thailand is - are you hooked up with a direct cat contract ? The reason is - they actually do both

Dude, this job could be done with a RaspberryPi.

Yeah right. I'm sure a RaspberryPi could copy with L7 traffic shaping.

Credit where is credit due.You are probably right. Well, but then you could use ipfilter or tables to block a couple of sites or trackers without shaping your traffic all the time. Ergo: ?

[angryfarang]

Yup, i do understand that you have to put the focus on your experience. Still the dual PPPoE does not make sense. Never mind. Let's play around with your set-up here for a moment.

Where are you getting this dual PPPoE from? I want to make a single PPPoE connection made from the Routerboard to the ISP?

Even if you go for single auth , there are timing issues which prevent you from what you like to archive there. This is a general issue in-between signal timing and not related to the hardware you are using.

I don't understand? What sort of timing issue? We never have an issue running our modems (either fiber or adsl) in pure bridge mode and pppoe on our routers. As long as the MTU and MRU are correct it works fine.

2) 200 connections on a 100MB/s link and you do shaping on L7 , good for you. I assume you know how many concurrent connections your link can handle? It is slightly more then 200 , just as a hint.

I'm sorry, am I not allowed to set up a system with plenty of overhead?...

No, hell no! Nothing wrong with quite a bit of spare bandwidth ! IMHO overhead is something else, but if it works for you, it will work for me. Yeah well, you mind telling me why you shape there?

I'm glad we agree. Extra bandwidth is great. - We traffic shape because when we have a hundred or so people using the connection at once they do all sorts of things. For example, we often see people set up their laptops and leave them on downloading bit-torrent 24/7, not only bit-torrent, but other programs for downloading, limeware, edonkey, etc. YouTube is also a huge bandwidth hog along with other streaming programs such as expattv, etc.

We want to make sure users can use the service properly, so for example Skype gets one of the highest priorities, HTTP browsing next. We actually use a QoS script written by Butch Evans that's based on NetEqualizer. It works really well, but is a CPU hog - hence the high end hardware.

5) VPN? really? initiated by the router? why? uhm, bull......? Let's assume you do this for a big hotel chain. It still would be a VPN from the terminal to the server. NO, not from the hotel Intranet to the server.

Wow. You really don't have a clue, or know anything about RouterOS. You are making comments on a system set up you have never seen. Sigh... My hotspot set up is completely separate from any of the hotels systems.

It's not upon me to be right here. There are several guiding principles how to run *nix systems. And frankly, I don't have to see your ctg files to understand why you have an issue with your uplink, while your radius requests are running fine.

I may be a moron here, but why don't you have a look into /var/log/ or wherever you'd put it - and you will see that there is a timing issue. Where did I say I have an issue with my uplink? We have 25Mb of upload bandwidth, which we run QoS on. We set our maximum limit at 23Mb, so we always have 2Mb overhead on the upload - which is plenty.

My routerboard is set up with OpenVPN client to make secure connections to my primary and secondary radius servers which are hosted on Amazon EC2. It also runs PPTP server so that I can make a secure connection from outside. Is this OK with you?

Don't be so posh! i mean OpenVPN or OpenSwan are a proper solutions. I'm not sure if i would hang it into a cloud, while it would run nicely on a virtual machine on my own hardware. Okay, you tunnel from your windows box, i prefer to have a hardened ssh connection and do my shit command line.. It will work anyway. Never mind. We have two main authentication servers hanging in the cloud for good reason - the infrastructure on Samui is terrible. We've tried running the servers locally, but ran in to all sorts of problems. Originally it was the reliability of the adsl lines, this got better when the island moved to fiber. This still didn't help when a drunked Thai idiot crashed in to the electric pole and brought the lines down. The next biggest issue was power. Then there were the "unknowns" - like a burst pipe in the server room (don't ask - it wasn't our server room) or a Gecko getting stuck in the CPU fan... We found it was better all round to run the servers on EC2 in Singapore, where we still have good latency to Thailand (around 60ms)

Sorry, than there is you asking here on a public board ? With " I have setup literally hundreds of systems this way." of experience?

Yes, I am asking on a public board if anyone knows if CAT fiber is single or multimode, I am not asking for advise on my hotspot set up.

As lovely as Thailand is - are you hooked up with a direct cat contract ? The reason is - they actually do both

We normally use TOT Fiber at our sites, this is the first site where we had no option but to use CAT, so we're still in the process of trying to talk to the right technician. In the meant time, I have run the system in DMZ mode like you suggested until I find the correct media converter/transceiver.

Dude, this job could be done with a RaspberryPi.

Yeah right. I'm sure a RaspberryPi could copy with L7 traffic shaping.

Credit where is credit due.You are probably right. Well, but then you could use ipfilter or tables to block a couple of sites or trackers without shaping your traffic all the time. Ergo: ?

No, we really do need proper traffic shaping on our systems. We've built a great system based around the NetEqualizer box and it works well and it's not too expensive. If it ain't broke, why fix it? For smaller sites we use the cheaper Mikrotik RB951G box, which is around 4,000 Baht - so it works out pretty cheap. This box is great because it has USB and RouterOS has built in UPS functionality. So we connect all our systems with this Mikrotik box to APC UPS's. This way we get e-mail notifications of power failure at our sites and it also tells us how many minutes are left and notifies us when it shuts down.

Talking about RaspberryPi - I have a brand new one here for sale if you know anyone that might want it? - I bought it for a media steaming project, but discovered the MAG-250 box in the end, so don't need it.

Cheers Jake.

[angryfarang]

OK. If anyone else is interested, it's single mode fiber and this media converter works great:

http://www.it2inter.com/product/product_detail.php?productid=product-0909030001280589