Friend fined for littering

[harrry]

Simple Dont flick a fag butt in the street and voila no fine

Yes but he tossed it down a storm drain so they have no proof and it is not littering the street which is what the law should be concerned about. So shake down indeed. 2000 Baht is the standard fine for this.

Yes.

I remember reading a letter to the editor in the BKK Post in which a farang related that he was nabbed immediately after dropping his cigarette butt in a sewer drain. Asked to pay the "fine" he asked "What for ?", "For throwing a cigarette butt", What cigarette butt ?".

He said it went on like that for a considerable amount of time but he was patient and finally the Butt Police relented and let him go.

Personally I fail to see how throwing a cigarette butt in a street sewer drain is considered littering.

http://www.fairlawn.org/filestorage/355/357/438/452/CC_StormDrain-full.pdf

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/NEWS/10308719.Smoker_who_threw_cigarette_butt_down_drain_ordered_to_pay___100_fine/

[tingtongteesood]

It annoys me that they only try to screw tourists whilst Thai people dump all kind of horrid crap wherever they want and nobody cares. They even approach tourists at random and say 'we saw you drop that cigarette' to people who don't even smoke. They told your friend the fine was 10,000 when by law it is 2,000 - DISGRACEFUL !! If the police ever try to approach you, whip your camera / phone out and start filming and make sure you get their faces and numbers. If it is legal then ok, if they are trying to screw you then they will insist you stop filming - REFUSE TO STOP. They will leave you alone OR you will have evidence of their illegal harrassment of you.

[slipperylobster]

He should be thanking the police for accepting his meager payout. My hometown charges 500 USD for the same thing...and it cannot be negotiated. The payment is sent in with the issued ticket. Otherwise, its a court appearance (and the same penalty). He was very fortunate for his inconsiderate disposal of his filthy cigarette.

[yourauntbob]

You should see the bus parking area at the bus station in Surin... most of the time it looks like a rubbish-tip and other times it's actually worse. When the buses park there the sweep out the rubbish from their buses straight out the bus door... no litter police here... if there was they would be the next billionaire in Surin!

Surin Bus station on a good day!

The best part of this picture is the empty trash bin in the background, priceless!

[newermonkey]

Perhaps after that shocking experience he will now realize cigarettes are bad for you.

[sumfool]

Shame they don't harass their own kind as they discharge filth on to the sides of just about every road, in every field and even their own gardens.

not to mention every klong, stream, and river in putrid liquid form. wont even start on the atmosphere,

[GAZZPA]

Assuming the location is Bangkok?

There have been many, many, many, many threads on this subject.

The police are "sidewalk" police, so part of the BMA rather than the RTP.

The fine for littering is 2,000 baht, although some, including Thais, negotiate this down to 200 baht.

The obvious solution is to not litter.

When I advised a girth-challenged Brit on Sukhumvit, in a nice, friendly tone, that he was being observed by the sidewalk police smoking, and that they would approach him as soon as he discarded his cigarette, he told me to "go <deleted> myself". He got hooked. Now I refrain from warning people.

Just for the record I smoke, I am a Brit and I am a little "girth challenged" but had you have warned me in the manner you did I would have thanked you and avoided the hassle,,, most would so don't stop being a decent guy, most would be happy you warned them.

[SOTIRIOS]

FYI Don't litter in Thailand.

Yes, it was a shakedown, but throwing cigarette butts is nasty, lucky wasn't in Singapore.

...but it's okay to dump tons or refuse on other peoples land....???......more selective justice....I'd like to see where it is written 10,000 baht...

...they were planning their weekend...

[WitawatWatawit]

Please stop referring to these city employees as police. They are not. They are called tesakij and do not have the authority to arrest or fine - only the police can arrest you. What they are doing is illegal - and criminal, as it is extortion. But no sympathy for you if you get hassled for littering, regardless of whether the locals do it or not.

[pgrahmm]

Simple Dont flick a fag butt in the street and voila no fine

Yes but he tossed it down a storm drain so they have no proof and it is not littering the street which is what the law should be concerned about. So shake down indeed. 2000 Baht is the standard fine for this.

Don't necessarily agree with that logic - the filters stay intact and if done by a great many people could glog the drainage system somewhere down the line - especially with BKK's drainage problems & really no different than tossing it in a canal - just an enclosed one ----- or the river would look like a floating ashtray (it's already bad enough).....it was a thoughtful thoughtless act.....disrespectful (to me) but a lot of smokers are a disrespectful lot/breed......

Pack it in - pack it out......

Edited August 16, 2013 by pgrahmm

[salapau]

Another story of police corruption agaist the foreigners. A ridiculous scenario when the police and goverment take no notice of slash and burn, even when it happens at the side of main roads. The Thais are the worst at littering that I've come across. Watch outside a 7/11 empty packets are flung everywhere. See the junk that drivers toss out into the road. Empty cups, ciggie packets, banana skins and much more. A cigarette but dropped into a drainage hole is not littering, I would have just walked off.

[clarkeman]

Funny thing is that my friend thought he was being careful and flicked it down a storm drain so he wouldn't be littering. I can understand the reasons for fining litterers though.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

How exactly is flicking it in the storm drain not littering? Your friend has that shared mentality that allows Thai's to treat storm drains as their own personal garbage disposal. Storm drains are for storm water, they lead to canals, rivers and oceans.

In my youth I was a smoker and didn't think twice flicking a cigarette anywhere. Now it drives me nuts to see how brazen and unconcerned people are with their cigarette butts. There isn't a beach anywhere in the world that isn't compromised by some D-Bag treating the beach like his private ash tray.

Smokers, every time you flick your butt anywhere outside, it's the equivalent of saying, "<deleted> You, somebody pick that up for me, I don't give a shit."

[loxley99]

Smoking is a filthy habit to start with ...so deleighted he was fined, even storm water drains end somewhere..in BKK poluting canals ..no sympathy here ...but sad it doesn't work across the board with general littering ..Thailand a beautifull country ..shame about the peoples lack of concern for their enviorment ...

[jimmiejackson]

Did the same thing shortly after I arrived the first time, flicked a butt into a storm drain.

Got stopped by the "Police" but saw they didn't have a gun so knew it was some kind of shakedown. After about 5 minutes of pointing at an English translation about how I owed them 2000 Baht I put down 100 Baht and said "I have to go, I'm busy". They smiled and I walked off and that was it.

[xenophon]

Saw a Japanese tourist a couple of years ago being followed by the street (cigarette) police. He placed the butt into a tiny, closed portable ashtray he took from his pocket. The cops, to my surprise, actually laughed. Didn't expect that.

[Speros]

Good, he should be fined 10,000 baht. Smokers use the rest of the world as their personal ash tray and they should understand this is not acceptable to decent people.

Yes because no smoker is decent.....

What a numbty

Littering should be fined, yes farang are the targets, but the 10,000tb was a shakedown and happening too often

[Fullstop]

How would I recognise sidewalk police?

I believe they walk sideways ... like a crab. Due to all the cash stuffed down their underpants.

[regfrancis]

Braveo!!! Please fine them all they have and throw them in the drain too (organic trash is ok)

[maapaa]

Don't try to look for them. Don't smoke - or don't leave your waste. That's you're supposed to do.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited August 16, 2013 by maapaa

[peecee]

Assuming the location is Bangkok?

There have been many, many, many, many threads on this subject.

The police are "sidewalk" police, so part of the BMA rather than the RTP.

The fine for littering is 2,000 baht, although some, including Thais, negotiate this down to 200 baht.

The obvious solution is to not litter.

When I advised a girth-challenged Brit on Sukhumvit, in a nice, friendly tone, that he was being observed by the sidewalk police smoking, and that they would approach him as soon as he discarded his cigarette, he told me to "go <deleted> myself". He got hooked. Now I refrain from warning people.

Probably to pissed to care; smokers are the worst sort of litterers!

[cocopops]

Funny thing is that my friend thought he was being careful and flicked it down a storm drain so he wouldn't be littering. I can understand the reasons for fining litterers though.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

What evidence did they have? If they had video footage how could they justify the THB 10k? If they didn't have any why did the victim cough?

Something doesn't add up.

Eyewitnesses.

[Fullstop]

Is it too late to change it from ciggie butt to chewing gum wrapper? Just to avoid all the pious predictable anti smoking blah blah instead of the actual issue. i.e Farangs being targeted by corrupt cops for something all Thais, including themselves do. "Litter" And how well they do it too!

Edited August 16, 2013 by Fullstop

[jackr]

Just another way for the natives to fleece their visitors I'm afraid... a non-litter policy tweaked by those on the take. All this twaddle of protecting the tourists, blah blah.. yep, fag ends are gross, and most smokers need to unself themselves a bit--and I'm all for cleaning up the world--but the real littering that is going on wholesale is nothing to do with the humble farang and they know it. I'd wager Thai people are rarely targetted and not a one has been fined 2,000 baht. Way to go, guys!

[marell]

These guys generally work in teams and communicate via two way radios. They wear kind of olive brown police-ish looking uniforms, and as mentioned, do not carry sidearms. But they are not police! Once a pedestrian smoker is spotted the team will follow/stalk him or her until the cigarette butt gets tossed. Then the closest one will pounce and bring the 'offender' back to their kiosk or sidewalk desk to pay the fine.

As has been mentioned the fine is 2000 Baht. I've been told that if you don't demand a receipt (they apparently have receipts but surprise, surprise, don't like writing them) the fine will quickly drop to 1000. I think this depends on the circumstances, the offender's attitude and maybe what's for lunch. From there, negotiating down to 500 is supposedly not too difficult. Less is possible. Personally, I believe they work purely on intimidation and if someone pleads poverty there's not much they can really do. Not sure about that. But I've seen them run this routine dozens of times and have never seen a no-kidding police officer involved. Never.

Not surprisingly, this anti littering campaign appears restricted to foreigners. I've seen Farangs, Japanese, Arabs and lately a number of Chinese targeted. Thais I mean other Asians, seem free to toss butts and all sorts of other junk around with impunity. Interestingly enough, this 'Beautify Bangkok' campaign apparently only applies to cigarette butts. I've never seen a foreigner collared for anything else.

Rules of engagement for visitors or the uninitiated include...Don't throw cigarette butts on the ground! Simple. Is it a scam? Sure, but it's an easy one to avoid.

Edited August 16, 2013 by marell

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

tell your friend to quit using the world as an ashtray. Consider this early karma for dropping a cigartte but into the water table.

FYI i smoke.

[Neeranam]

Years ago I told them I wasn't paying and walked away - they did nothing.

Once they see you're not a tourist, they're not interested.

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

These guys generally work in teams and communicate via two way radios. They wear kind of olive brown police-ish looking uniforms, and as mentioned, do not carry sidearms. But they are not police! Once a pedestrian smoker is spotted they will stalk him or her until the cigarette butt gets tossed. Then the closest one will pounce and bring the 'offender' back to their kiosk or sidewalk desk to pay the fine.

As has been mentioned the fine is 2000 Baht. I've been told that if you don't demand a receipt (they apparently have receipts but surprise, surprise, don't like writing them) the fine will quickly drop to 1000. I think this depends on the circumstances and the offender's attitude. From there, negotiating down to 500 is supposedly not too difficult. Less is possible. Personally, I believe they work purely on intimidation and if someone pleads poverty there's not much they can really do. Not sure about that. But I've seen them run this routine dozens of times and have never seen a no-kidding police officer involved. Never.

Not surprisingly, this anti littering campaign appears restricted to foreigners. I've seen Farangs, Japanese, Arabs and lately a number of Chinese targeted. Thais I mean other Asians, seem free to toss butts around with impunity. Interestingly enough, this 'Beautify Bangkok' campaign apparently only applies to cigarette butts. I've never seen a foreigner collared for anything else.

Rules of engagement for visitors or the uninitiated include...Don't throw cigarette butts on the ground! Simple. Is it a scam? Sure, but it's an easy one to avoid.

i got done at khao san about 10 years ago. I had stripped the paper and tobacco off and dropped it on the road, but still bad the butt in my hand and was waiting for a garbage can to present itself.

I refused to pay 2000 on the street, was taken on a motorcycle to the station where i met a superior officer who had children studying in the city i am from. I showed him the butt i was still holding. we amicably agreed on 100 baht and the officer who grabbed me was told to take me back to khao san.

The officer gave me his card to call if i ever needed help in the area. I suspect times have changed.

[harrry]

A woman has been prosecuted and fined after dropping a cigarette butt down a drain in Watford town centre.

Georgie Stanley, from Hillingdon, was issued with a fine for littering after throwing the spent cigarette end down into a drain, but did not pay it.

Because she ignored reminders about the fine, she was summoned to appear at Watford Magistrates Court on Monday, March 11.

After failing to appear in court, and with the case heard in her absence, Ms Stanley was fined £100 with costs of £250 and a victim surcharge of £15.

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/NEWS/10308719.Smoker_who_threw_cigarette_butt_down_drain_ordered_to_pay___100_fine/

365 British Pound Sterling equals

17848.51 Thai Baht

[Dap]

Putting something down a storm drain is considered littering?

yes,

and while you have every right to smoke in private and away from me this site may explain about cigarette buts in storm drains.

http://www.preventcigarettelitter.org/why_it_matters/environment.html

You will get fined in many countries for it if caught and it has consequences.

Thank you for the information.

I do not smoke, but I thought storm drains were fine to dispose of light items. paper tissues and things like that. There are so few right places to dispose of things that it very much invites to get rid of them in any way you can.

Just where do you think storm drains empty? Into trash cans?

[KuhnPaen]

Yeah, it's a "legal shakedown.". I got grabbed for throwing out a ciggy butt and they asked for 3,000 baht. My Isaan GF was about 20 yards away and I yelled "Tilac, ma nii!"

The cops dropped their heads when she came over.

Since that wasn't MY money (It's hers, I just don't know it), she haggled with them. I heard "song roi" from the cops (200) and whipped out my wallet too soon.

My GF was pissed all day that I puled out my money too quickly, as she was in the process of name dropping every cop friend, relative, etc. and would have had it dropped.

Bottom line..if I was by myself, I would have been screwed. Just one of the many ways having a Thai GF offsets (ever so slightly) the cost of having one.