Australian arrested in Pattaya for threatening Australian embassy

[Rosco911]

I sympathize with him. He's already very upset over his child custody problem and to deal with sociopathic government drones on top of that cannot be easy.

Could not agree more.

[dunque]

What is he being charged with?

I have had very mixed experiences with both the Australian embassy and visa process centre. The biggest problem is obviously that when you go to either of these places you are dealing with someone that is in uniform as such. They carry the typical I'm in uniform so I'm important Thai attitude.

Our culture is just far too different for Thai people to have any position at the embassy regardless of their training.

My wife also mentioned to me that they spoke very bad to Thai people. Did not explain procedures clearly and generally made you feel an idiot. So much so my wife now refuses to go to the visa processing centre.

I have now happily relocated back to Oz after spending 4 years in Thailand. All I miss is cheap liquor and cheap women as to be honest I feel Thailand offers little else compared to Oz.

They are probably better at cricket.

[moe666]

I guess they figure you had the ability to get to Thailand wwithout any assistance why do you need help now. Know the laws of the country you are visiting and please do not go sowing some wild oats around and then want help later when it goes tits up.

[Alwyn]

Somebody needs to sit and help this chap - all the name calling going on here is irrelevant. If it was my child we're talking about I'd probably be as frustrated but lucky for me i know how to go about this process. I have two friends who have got legal custody of their children by Thai women. One in koh Samui has got both of his children living with him and the mother gets visitation rights and another chap in Bangkok has legal cusstody of his son; That was a bit harder as the ex-wife kidnapped the son and went to her province so the chap had to go there and more or less start again - which he did successfully. The Thai courts are sympathetic towards the well being of the child although in both these cases the mums were hard core drug abusers so that helped. Mate, get a lawyer and do it through the courts properly, it will cost you but so what?

[harrry]

I hope he makes use of the Australian Embassies service

• visit or contact Australians who are arrested and arrange for their family to be informed (if they wish)

this is part of their role.

[simple1]

As he did not have sole custody awarded by a Thai court, requires Thai mothers written permission for the child to depart Thailand

That is incorrect, I brought by 11 month old son back to Australia (December 2012) to live when I split up with my wife. All I had was his passport and birth certificate (we had already contacted the Australian and Thai embassies and they both said that I didn't require anything other than his passport) and we left Thailand and entered Australia with no problems. As long as there are no court restrictions children can leave Thailand freely with their father or a relative.

A Thai embassy has nothing to do with a child visa for entry to Australia, so do not understand your comment. I assume you had to comply to the requirements for a child visa under the age of 18 as documented at:

http://www.thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/DIAC_Visa_children.html

I don't understand your comment, MY SON HAS BOTH AUSTRALIAN AND THAI PASSPORTS HE DOESN'T REQUIRE A VISA TO ENTER AUSTRALIA

No need to shout, do you have an anger management problem like the guy in the OP?

You did not make clear in your first post that your son is a dual national. So you are saying that your son was able to obtain Australian citizenship & depart Thailand, on a Thai passport then enter Australia on his Oz passport. I assume this must have been with the mothers permission as you state there was not any Thai court involvement or have I misunderstood your situation?

A Thai passport is not granted to a child under the age of 15 without both parents consent. A quote from the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs below.

"If both parents cannot appear at the same time, one parent must accompany the applicant on the date of the application and as well bring a notarized parental consent form signed by the non- appearing parent. (parental consent form)"

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21483-Frequently-Asked-Questions-%28FAQs%29.html

[cpofc]

An extremely emotive subject. Both in and outside Australia. One that drives desperate people to do desperate things and commit extreme acts. Just this week there was an article in the Australian Press about 'Why Fathers Kill Their Children'. Also last week. A bloke in Melbourne just had his appeal against his sentence overturned for murdering his 3 children by deliberately driving his car into a dam - with his kids in it. Custody battles. Have you ever been to an Australian Family Court. The one and only time I attended was in 1983. I had to pass through scanners and metal detectors because someone was planting explosive devices trying to blown them, and the Judges up. It was a scene of misery and despair.

For the Hang Em High Brigade I say, walk a mile in my shoes. You must have such a good life, you have never lost the plot over an issue? Said things or done things you later regretted. One at least must applaud the bloke for not being a 'deadbeat dad'.

Then again, today, Australians have mostly become a nation of whingers. Welfare dependent, living in an age of 'Entitlement'. The article on Phuket hospitals recently is indicative of Australians attitude to the world owes me a living concept.

"The growing incidence of Australians overseas demanding that government intervene in their cases no matter how trivial, foolhardy or avoidable their predicament, would seem at odds with the national culture that prides itself on resilience and resourcefulness.”

A recent paper from the Lowy Institute for International Policy

As more and more Australians travel and live overseas, the Australian

Government finds itself under increasing pressure to provide consular help

and support, especially in emergencies. Providing these consular services is a

traditional role for government representatives abroad, but both the scale and

the nature of the demand have grown significantly in recent years. The

demand from Australians for evacuation from South Lebanon during the

conflict there last year demonstrated how far community expectations of the

nature and scale of consular help have increased. This raises two problems.

First, there is an issue of expectation management; community expectations

are starting to run ahead of what can practicably be provided. Second, there

is a problem of resources and priorities. While the consular workload has

grown, the resources of Australia’s Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

have not, and the result has inevitably been a diversion of resources away

from other diplomatic tasks. That is something Australia can ill afford.

http://www.worldreach.com/Resource%20Document/Looking%20After%20Australians%20Overseas%20-%20Lowy%20Institute.pdf


After reading pages of opinion, alot of it ilinformed I would say to everyone - When in doubt RTFM.

Australian Embassies - Our role

We provide consular assistance to Australian citizens and permanent residents travelling or living abroad through our offices in Australia and diplomatic missions (embassies, high commissions, consulates) overseas. Our capacity to assist you is influenced by local laws and conditions, international rules governing consular work, and by the cooperation offered by persons and organisations outside the Australian Government.

Our role includes:

• providing you with prompt, effective and courteous consular service
• ensuring we have trained and dedicated staff to assist you
• advising you of the services we can and cannot provide and the fees and charges that apply
• protecting your privacy in accordance with Australian law
• maintaining collaborative working relations with other government and non-government agencies to facilitate effective consular and crisis-related assistance.

Our services
We can:

• in medical emergencies, provide lists of local doctors and hospitals and assistance in arranging a medical evacuation (at your expense) if required
• in the event of war, civil unrest or natural disaster, provide current information and assistance in arranging an evacuation if appropriate and subject to the state of disruption of communications and transport on the ground
• provide advice and support in the case of an accident, serious illness or death. We will also ensure next of kin are informed (if you give your consent, except in the case of a death where consent is not required)
• assist victims of serious crimes, including by arranging for next of kin to be informed (if you give your consent)
• assist if you are arrested overseas, by visiting or contacting you and by arranging for your family to be informed (if you give your consent). We also seek to ensure that you are treated fairly under the laws of the country in which you have been arrested
• provide lists of local lawyers
• assist in cases of missing persons
• assist with arranging a replacement passport if yours has expired or been lost, stolen or damaged (fees apply)
• assist you to contact relatives or friends for help with money or tickets
• provide small emergency loans in genuine emergency situations. (Note: Any financial assistance we may provide will generally be in the form of a loan, which is made on the basis of a signed, legal undertaking to repay in full. You may also be required to surrender your passport and you may not be issued with a replacement until the debt is repaid.)
• provide notarial services including witnessing and authenticating documents and administering oaths and affirmations (fees apply)
• provide travel advisories as one source of input to inform your travel plans
• provide the opportunity for you to register your travel details with us so that we can try to make contact in case of emergency
• provide voting facilities for federal and some state and territory elections
• assist with contact details of government authorities in Australia in the event of pension or social security payment difficulties.

We cannot:

• provide legal advice
• intervene in private court proceedings or legal matters including employment disputes, commercial disputes and family law matters
• investigate crimes or deaths overseas
• provide or pay for search and rescue services (although we can help you arrange these services)
• get you out of prison or seek special treatment for you
• post bail or pay your fines or legal expenses
• enforce an Australian or any other custody agreement overseas or compel a country to decide a custody case
• provide or pay for medical or psychiatric services or medications
• act as a travel agent, bank or post office, or store luggage
• provide translation, interpreter, telephone or internet services
• issue emergency loans, unless you have first exhausted other sources of support including insurance and family members
• pay your pension or social security benefits
• pay or guarantee payment of your hotel, medical or other bills
• arrange visas, licences, work or residency permits for other countries or help you to obtain them
• intervene in relation to customs or quarantine requirements and regulations of other countries
• provide physical protection or security advice
• accept responsibility for the custody or safe return of lost property.

[JulesMad]

Utter BS: How can you threaten an embassy?!? It is a building.....

Did he threaten Australia?!?

If so, Australia, please take action!!! It is one of your own... Sort it out!

If not, what is the problem?

Clearly this guy is mentally challenged, so threat him that way....

End of Story

[bruceky]

A child born overseas to an Australian national and registered with the Australian embassy is automatically an Australian citizen, he should have stayed cool, taken the daughter on a holiday to Grandma in oz and stayed there, chances would have been slightly better and the payoff,more affordable......anyway..

As he did not have sole custody awarded by a Thai court, requires Thai mothers written permission for the child to depart Thailand

That is incorrect, I brought by 11 month old son back to Australia (December 2012) to live when I split up with my wife. All I had was his passport and birth certificate (we had already contacted the Australian and Thai embassies and they both said that I didn't require anything other than his passport) and we left Thailand and entered Australia with no problems. As long as there are no court restrictions children can leave Thailand freely with their father or a relative.

i'm guessing that's where the difference is... you already had the passport... which consent would need to have been given by both parties to obtain... i'm not as familiar with the thai side of things, but even in australia, if both parents are australian, and one party doesn't sign, the other can't take their child overseas, not even for a holiday.

[harrry]

A child born overseas to an Australian national and registered with the Australian embassy is automatically an Australian citizen, he should have stayed cool, taken the daughter on a holiday to Grandma in oz and stayed there, chances would have been slightly better and the payoff,more affordable......anyway..

As he did not have sole custody awarded by a Thai court, requires Thai mothers written permission for the child to depart Thailand

That is incorrect, I brought by 11 month old son back to Australia (December 2012) to live when I split up with my wife. All I had was his passport and birth certificate (we had already contacted the Australian and Thai embassies and they both said that I didn't require anything other than his passport) and we left Thailand and entered Australia with no problems. As long as there are no court restrictions children can leave Thailand freely with their father or a relative.

i'm guessing that's where the difference is... you already had the passport... which consent would need to have been given by both parties to obtain... i'm not as familiar with the thai side of things, but even in australia, if both parents are australian, and one party doesn't sign, the other can't take their child overseas, not even for a holiday.

but there is a procedure where one may be issued. Not that hard either.

[Kommiekat]

He's got a tattoo. They should have ignored him and let him go. People with Tatts are cool, aren't they?

[harrry]

He's got a tattoo. They should have ignored him and let him go. People with Tatts are cool, aren't they?

Well aparently he did serve in the military...and get wounded and this is the help his country offers him.

[dudu]

He's got a tattoo. They should have ignored him and let him go. People with Tatts are cool, aren't they?

Well aparently he did serve in the military...and get wounded and this is the help his country offers him.

Your only important when you go, not when you come back!

[pgrahmm]

he does not look like a PhD...

It was his PHD that got him in this situation ..... LOL

Edited August 17, 2013 by pgrahmm

[Considered Opinion]

I think people are nuts spending their hard earned folding on lawyers when they just need to ask for help on Thai Visa

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Bazt]

I challenge any one to go to the Australian Embassy in Bangkok and play, "Spot The Aussie" and speak to an Australian accent in under two hours.

 

I know I will win a carton of beer in that bet.

 

This guy threatening is just stupid, there is no doubt about that, I mean what does he seriously expect that to get him ????

 

However, some of the local staff involved are very inconstant.

Seen and spoken to Aussie staff there 3 out of the 3 times I've had to go to the Embassy.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jackspratt]

I have no opinion on the rights or wrongs of this guy's situation, as like everyone else on this forum, I have very little knowledge of what has occurred, and believe that ill or uninformed speculation adds very little to the discussion.

As far as Oz Embassies are concerned, I have never received less than prompt, courteous and efficient service - generally dealing with those apparently non-existent Australian officials. Likewise when dealing with local officers, both at the Bangkok and Vientiane Embassies, and in earlier times, Beijing.

For the (only to be expected) whingers, I am reminded of this excellent piece from 2009 by the former Oz Foreign Affairs Minister, Alexander "Fishnets" Downer:

....................After about 10 minutes as foreign minister I was a little surprised to learn I was "responsible" for miscreant Australians who got into trouble in foreign countries.

No, no, no, don't get it wrong - drug traffickers, drunks, kleptomaniacs and fraudsters weren't responsible for their own stupidity - I was.

It's about time that great nanny in Canberra, the Federal Government, turned around and told people they are responsible for their own decisions.............

The rest can be found here:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/archive/news/idiot-aussies-grow-up-and-take-responsibility/story-e6freacl-1225715581105

Edited August 17, 2013 by jackspratt

[monkey4u]

I sympathize with him. He's already very upset over his child custody problem and to deal with sociopathic government drones on top of that cannot be easy.

The Australian Department of foreign Affairs (DFAT) have already announce that the are making cuts and scaling back assistance to Australians overseas. Aussies are being told that they are now virtually on their own when abroad.

"Australians who get into trouble overseas in future should not expect the level of consular service offered now, Foreign Affairs Minister Bob Carr says"

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1797559/Help-for-Aussies-busted-overseas-to-be-cut:-Carr

I do not think they can do that. The level could not get much lower.

First off the person getting charged is a KNUCKLE HEAD Be polite to the Embassy it will help you more

Secondly with Bob Carr as our Foreign Affairs Minister we are all screwed, just look at what he did as Premier of NSW

[harrry]

I sympathize with him. He's already very upset over his child custody problem and to deal with sociopathic government drones on top of that cannot be easy.

The Australian Department of foreign Affairs (DFAT) have already announce that the are making cuts and scaling back assistance to Australians overseas. Aussies are being told that they are now virtually on their own when abroad.

"Australians who get into trouble overseas in future should not expect the level of consular service offered now, Foreign Affairs Minister Bob Carr says"

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1797559/Help-for-Aussies-busted-overseas-to-be-cut:-Carr

I do not think they can do that. The level could not get much lower.

First off the person getting charged is a KNUCKLE HEAD Be polite to the Embassy it will help you more

Secondly with Bob Carr as our Foreign Affairs Minister we are all screwed, just look at what he did as Premier of NSW

Even ex prime ministers can get into trouble....remember when Frazer lost his trousers.

[richard_smith237]

I haven't read all the posts in this topic, but I did read a few 'hang-him' posts...

I feel a little differently. While I understand its not the Aussie Embassies Job to help this guy get his child back they appear to have acted carelessly and without compassion.

A guy is in a foreign country, without knowledge of the law, he's on the edge, he's lost his child and doesn't know where to turn. He turns to his Embassy who have given him nothing... If they had any compassion they could have provided him with some information.

Embassies do not need to be baby sitting their citizens, but the could operate with far more compassion and at least offer some advice to their citizens and point them in the right direction.

Of course, the Aussie chap was stupid to make threats, but his mental state was probably highly volatile after getting pushed to the edge. I'm sure the Australian Embassy could have explained how they can't' be responsible or accountable and can't help in such circumstances but they can provide details of some companies / lawyers who may at least be able to offer some advice. If handled with a little consideration this guy may have been able to step back peacefully from the edge.

By simply saying we can't help you, they may as well say we don't care. Now, I know my embassy doesn't care, I expect nothing of them. But others are not as well informed as to the precise roll of the Embassies.

Edited August 17, 2013 by richard_smith237

[Halion]

Threatening the Australian Embassy and it didn't even get a single mention in the Australian media. Not even news worthy down under.

Not at all suprising as regardless of this blokes verbal nuances,it comes over as highhanded and uncaring behaviour on behalf of the Embasy staff who over the years have become rather indifferent and aloof.

As this is a low level issue it would be perceived as significant overkill by the Embassy staff.

[Basil B]

I have no opinion on the rights or wrongs of this guy's situation, as like everyone else on this forum, I have very little knowledge of what has occurred, and believe that ill or uninformed speculation adds very little to the discussion.

As far as Oz Embassies are concerned, I have never received less than prompt, courteous and efficient service - generally dealing with those apparently non-existent Australian officials. Likewise when dealing with local officers, both at the Bangkok and Vientiane Embassies, and in earlier times, Beijing.

For the (only to be expected) whingers, I am reminded of this excellent piece from 2009 by the former Oz Foreign Affairs Minister, Alexander "Fishnets" Downer:

....................After about 10 minutes as foreign minister I was a little surprised to learn I was "responsible" for miscreant Australians who got into trouble in foreign countries.

No, no, no, don't get it wrong - drug traffickers, drunks, kleptomaniacs and fraudsters weren't responsible for their own stupidity - I was.

It's about time that great nanny in Canberra, the Federal Government, turned around and told people they are responsible for their own decisions.............

The rest can be found here:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/archive/news/idiot-aussies-grow-up-and-take-responsibility/story-e6freacl-1225715581105

I like your quote, It must be quite a shock for any person appointed Foreign Minister whatever country they serve.

What must be apparent here is that I suspect many of the western embassies receive requests for help which is outside their remit and receive abusive response every day, there must be more to this story or they would not have reported him to the Thai Police

[YeaBiGgiEs]

I must agree in some cases your home Embassy is less than helpful is certain situations. When you are met with resistance or illogical reasoning in any situation that is already heated it can cause even the most level-headed, mild-tempered person to voice their frustration. Especially when a child is involved. I mean we are humans not robots. We have emotions yet in countries like Thailand it is looked down upon to show those emotions.

My example: I went to my embassy for an emergency ticket back to my home country for medical reasons, I filled out the application, I was approved but it was already a Friday and was told that the 3rd party travel agency they use won't be open until Monday. I was also informed that upon arrival in my home country, my passport would be confiscated until I paid back that cost.

Well we all know how Governments around the world are overcharged for practically everything. Stories of $25 a doughnut at a brunch, so I could imagine how much a travel agency would charge my embassy for a 1-way ticket . Having to pay it back anyways, I opted to book myself a round-trip ticket on KAL

[ppmacready]

I sympathize with him. He's already very upset over his child custody problem and to deal with sociopathic government drones on top of that cannot be easy.

I would say that embassy consular staff must deal with abusive calls on a regular basis when citizens are informed on what consular staff can and cannot do for them, yet no action is taken. As a complete assumption I would say that he went too far when threatening consular staff that lead them - AFP? - to decide to get the RTP involved.

I would guess that people he met in Thailand had misinformed him of his "rights" compounding his frustration and anger.

My guess is the person he spoke to may have been a Thai. Possibly an Australian citizen or someone who had studied in Australia but not someone who had lived there their whole life. When someone is upset and talking to the Australian Embassy they probably expect people to react and think in the same way as a person in an australian office does. Local staff however competant cannot give the same cultural context.

If we are going to start guessing.

I'd guess it was one of those relationships that started with a ''special girl''.

[harrry]

to put the Cultural context into perspective. If a Thai was faced with negativity in an Australian office their first thought may be that tea money was required. I think Chooka would probably say that in that case they would probably told to put their money back in their pocket it does not work. At least at first the official would not insist on charges.

Local thai staff often think that their word is law....(even that of Australian Embassy officials is not either as one once found out.) Their reaction would not be the same as that of a person who had grown up in the australian culture.

[Mudcrab]

A child born overseas to an Australian national and registered with the Australian embassy is automatically an Australian citizen, he should have stayed cool, taken the daughter on a holiday to Grandma in oz and stayed there, chances would have been slightly better and the payoff,more affordable......anyway..

Might be a bit hard if the kid doesn't have an aussie passport. And yes ALL children in Oz are required to have a passport for international travel irrespective of age.

[SOTIRIOS]

He should have known that very strong reasons for taking custody away from the birth mother are needed in most countries and Thailand is no different. Also it is not the Embassy that can arrange for that anyway. It is the Thai courts.

.........by now....our home counties are very well aware of the marriage scams going on in Thaland...

We and our families have paid taxes all our lives back home....

....sorry for them not wanting to disturb their cushy situations....with astronomical salaries (by local standards)

...but we pay those salaries, actually....

It's about time that they, our lifelines, our eyes and ears in this often hostile land relay the message back....

....and push for MORE RIGHTS for us through diplomatic channels and our governments....

...not just hold social events a dozen times a year or more......

.....there is a big difference between....'holding a job'.and 'doing your job'...representing your people....responsibly.....

[SOTIRIOS]

Again:

.........by now....our home counties are very well aware of the marriage scams going on in Thaland...

We and our families have paid taxes all our lives back home....

....sorry for them not wanting to disturb their cushy situations....with astronomical salaries (by local standards)

...but we pay those salaries, actually....

It's about time that they, our lifelines, our eyes and ears in this often hostile land relay the message back....

....and push for MORE RIGHTS for us through diplomatic channels and our governments....

...not just hold social events a dozen times a year or more......

.....there is a big difference between....'holding a job'.and 'doing your job'...representing your people....responsibly.....

[TPI]

What a Clown!!

Makes me almost ashamed to be Australian when creatures such as this make idiots of themselves in Thailand. However, it must be said that he "looks" like a good upstanding, clean-cut example of a young Aussie and our Embassy should fall over backwards to race to his assistance and staff at the Embassy should be more than willing to take on-board whatever foul utterances he wishes to make. Yeh, and "Pigs can fly!"

Pack him up, send him back where he came from and toss him in jail to learn a lesson in good manners.

Ah, the hang em high brigade leader?

Thanks for your insight - JOBSWORTH.

Compassion is the understanding or empathy for the suffering of others.

Compassion is often regarded as having an emotional aspect to it, though when based on cerebral notions such as fairness, justice and interdependence, it may be considered rational in nature and its application understood as a activity based on sound judgment. There is also an aspect of compassion which regards a quantitative dimension, such that individual's compassion is often given a property of "depth," "vigour," or "passion." The etymology of "compassion" is Latin, meaning "co-suffering." More involved than simple empathy, compassion commonly gives rise to an active desire to alleviate another's suffering. It is often, though not inevitably, the key component in what manifests in the social context as altruism. In ethical terms, the various expressions down the ages of the so-called Golden Rule often embodies by implication the principle of compassion: Do to others what you would have them do to you.

Well well Torrens 54, be careful, your "milk of human kindness" is starting to show...In my dealing with the Oz embassy over the years I've found that the Thai staff are arrogant beyond belief. The Oz staff are just time servers, you only get any respect if you an alumni of ANU, a big business man or a politician...2 booths, a minimum of attention, on your way squire!

[chooka]

Just looking at his facebook page and the guy just seems like your average Aussie bloke, nothing out of the ordinary apart from the pick of Jesus.

https://www.facebook.com/travis.moore.758737