Eastern <---> Western Hybrid Children

[backflip]

greenwanderer,

Children are precious, and they hear every word you say - whether you're "joking" or not. Hearing their father referring to them as "mutts" is an indication that you should have never had children. I feel sorry for them.

[jing jing]

In the States, where almost everyone's ancestors came from somewhere else, you'll hear a lot of people refer to themselves as mutts.... no big deal.

[srisatch]

The wonderful 60s appellation was 'Rainbow Children' was it not?

There is an unending nurture/nature debate

We just love our kids and try to help them become who they can be. We'll try and massage the bits we (and they) don't like and nurture the bits we all think are special to them; we talk to them about the way they look and feel and how other people treat them; we talk about how we all came to be where they are...families, grannies, peoples, travellers across cultures and times etc.

The only 'odd thing' we have noticed is that in LOS people are VERY anxious to try and categorise looks and personality on a 'family' or 'genetc' basis..not just luk khreungs. If, like me, you come from a rainbow country this seems amusing, but pointless, and possibly unpleasant.

My great x10 grandpa was maybe a Scythian archer stationed in Gaul. Who cares? Fortunately, in spite of the prejudices of various academics, it appears that all human beings have much the same intelligence and potential, though arising from different sets of factors, which they chose to deploy in different ways towards some slightly different ends.

[think_too_mut]

Have never heard of "mutt". Is it that someone is introducing things that Thais do not care about?

Though, I have heard "farang noi" reffering to my child.

Or "nong farang" from children in a playground, even from their parents. The distincion is there but not negative or I could not catch the meaning.

[BKK Traveler]

In the States, where almost everyone's ancestors came from somewhere else, you'll hear a lot of people refer to themselves as mutts.... no big deal.

I'm from the States originally and I've have never ever heard anyone there refer to themselves as mutts. Never! I've heard them refer themselves as part of the great melting pot, or other descriptions, but never a mutt. A mutt is reserved strictly for a dog in the circle of people I grew up with. It is extremely offensive to call someone a mutt in my book.

[BKK Traveler]

But I am a Mod...and a Luuk Krung.

Lets leave it at this shall we. If greeny feels as if he wants to refer to himself and his new child as a mut, then that is for him. Having said that, I think the meant in jest, albeit badly!

And and the risk of being too PC, lest we continue to offend anyone, lets keep this discussion along the straight and narrow avoid any language which may appear disparaging to others.

Samran, I never even read Green's post fully, but just briefly skimmed over it and it seemed to be on par with his normal posts, which IMHO are nothing more than drivel of a troll trying to get a response. Look again at the title of his post, " Eastern <---> Western Hybrid Children, Super Chimeras or ordinary muts? " It makes no mention of HIS children, but speaks of mixed children in general. Someone of a mixed background or with mixed children who just read the title on the list of posts without even clicking on the post would be offended by it if they took the meaning of "mutts" to be the same as what I do. I find that someone is allowed to post such a thing and it remains on the board to be extremely offensive and only serves to degrade the standards of this board. But being that you and I presume several other moderators have read this and not taken any action, even to the point of editing out the offending word, I will assume that I'm in the minority and simply ignore anything the OP posts in the future and keep my mouth shut.

Edited to add one final comment - If someone made a post along the same lines but asked if black people were the "N" word, or asked if Chinese people were the "C" word, etc. in the title, would that be allowed to stay even if it was obvious from the post that the OP was just joking? IMHO, you never joke about calling people such offensive words. At least not in a civilized forum.

Edited April 16, 2006 by BKK Traveler

[samran]

In the States, where almost everyone's ancestors came from somewhere else, you'll hear a lot of people refer to themselves as mutts.... no big deal.

I'm from the States originally and I've have never ever heard anyone there refer to themselves as mutts. Never! I've heard them refer themselves as part of the great melting pot, or other descriptions, but never a mutt. A mutt is reserved strictly for a dog in the circle of people I grew up with. It is extremely offensive to call someone a mutt in my book.

right, discussions on the "m" word are over, OK. Lessons learnt. Go back to your corners and be good boys now.

The OP was badly worded and verbose, which is affliction most posters have at one stage or another. But it is apotenially interesting topic. Probably the only thread in Thaivisa history where greek letters α-β- have been used and combined with the words "Thalassemia". Let the discussion continue without all the tut-tutting please.

[skylar]

oooh, the Pattaya Water Park. I had so much fun on that big concete white thing and on the water slides as a kid!

[Nawtilus]

I have 2 luek kruengs, boy and girl. Mum is golden skinned as opposed to the darker brown. I am white skinned, but olive skinned which tans very easily and dark.

Both kids look western, not asian at all, possibly only a little in their eyes if you have any inclination to think they are different. They are both very white but have features of both mine and mums, ie they both have her cute little button nose.

My son was born back home and he was not picked as being asian by anyone when we were out alone, except one lady who was chinese and happened to ask if he had any asian in him.

The advertising industry still loves these kids, I will not say more so, but they seem to have an affliction with the white and western looking kids. Both my kids have done tv commercials here and were picked soley for their western and white looks, plus a little because of their perhaps outgoingness or smiles.

While doing these commercials were fun and it gives them something to look back onto when they are old and for me to play at their 21st birthdays, I would not be to fussed if they do not do anymore.

[think_too_mut]

I have 2 luek kruengs, boy and girl. Mum is golden skinned as opposed to the darker brown. I am white skinned, but olive skinned which tans very easily and dark.

Both kids look western, not asian at all, possibly only a little in their eyes if you have any inclination to think they are different. They are both very white but have features of both mine and mums, ie they both have her cute little button nose.

My son was born back home and he was not picked as being asian by anyone when we were out alone, except one lady who was chinese and happened to ask if he had any asian in him.

The advertising industry still loves these kids, I will not say more so, but they seem to have an affliction with the white and western looking kids. Both my kids have done tv commercials here and were picked soley for their western and white looks, plus a little because of their perhaps outgoingness or smiles.

While doing these commercials were fun and it gives them something to look back onto when they are old and for me to play at their 21st birthdays, I would not be to fussed if they do not do anymore.

Great. Would you have any pics to show?

[greenwanderer108]

Ya, I'm farang - all 4 grandparents were Russian - wife is Thai but kinda light skinned, our son looks much more farang than Thai. He's got really white skin and huge eyes. His appearance did change a lot from the first week or so, before his eyes opened up. Dark hair and eyes, but I've got those too.

The interesting thing is that even though his mom and I are both quite thin, he's a real chunky boy... not fat at all, just kinda beefy and square. He's not quite 6 months old yet so there's plenty of time for him to thin out, but for the time being he's in the top 75 percentile of weight for his age, and the same goes for his height.

BTW congratulations on your first kid!! Quite an experience...

Thanks...and a belated congrats to you too!

About the weight thing, I've been curious about this too. The charts in the baby book they get from the hospital...I assume they're standarized international right? Our son was born 3,550 grams which is right in the middle of the chart...

However, it wouldn't surprise me if the average Thai average chart looked different. I noticed all of the other 5-6 babies in the nursery were all smaller than my son avg. 2.4-2.8 kg...I'm not sure what the average for Thai full-breds (can I say that? ) weight at birth is, but the general scoop I get from other Thai parents is 2++ kgs. My girlfriend was a big one...4 kg.. She didn't turn out fat at all.. 42 kg before the pregnancy and 53 into labor.

I can't remember exactly...but I was about 7.5 pounds..avg. weight. And I'm turning to be a big bugger now at 93 kg! The Thais have always seemed to hold the luuk kreungs as special/powerful in the literature too. There was the luuk kreung Sin Samut, who grew big quickly and had special powers. Then again, he was half monster...half human... Ofcourse there were no real monsters at the time of the writing, so it could be symbolic for some other monster...

And so back to the topic title 'Super Chimeras or ordinary [insert PC term here for ordinary mixed child]' These new generations of luuk kreungs and luuk siaws....are we breeding a new elite for Thailand of larger/stronger than average boys and girls?

How about all your kids? Are they larger/stronger than average their full-Thai peers or is it just some cases?

BTW...Think Too Mut,

She's lovely! From this angle, however, she shows her Thai traits moreso...Looks like she's growing out of her stroller. We bought a larger one, that can hold up to 30 kg (aparently) and suffices now for a mini bed-side bed...When he's walking and running, plant to hook up the DC motor and batteries, add steel wheels, and perhaps a solar panel for his first science lesson---electric car....getting ahead of myself... we'll post some pictures in a little while of my own luuk siaws..

cheers

[Nawtilus]

TTM, can show you privately by email if you like, I just personaly do not like to put my kids pics up on internet. Silly i know as they are already in the public eye to some degree, but just my preferance.

I meant to say in last post that your little girl looks very cute. It is simply amazing what hybrid vigour does in nature.

[think_too_mut]

TTM, can show you privately by email if you like, I just personaly do not like to put my kids pics up on internet. Silly i know as they are already in the public eye to some degree, but just my preferance.

I meant to say in last post that your little girl looks very cute. It is simply amazing what hybrid vigour does in nature.

Thanks.

Let's keep in the open board.

If you don't want to show your kids, then don't. No private posts, sorry.

[thaibebop]

In the States, where almost everyone's ancestors came from somewhere else, you'll hear a lot of people refer to themselves as mutts.... no big deal.

I'm from the States originally and I've have never ever heard anyone there refer to themselves as mutts. Never! I've heard them refer themselves as part of the great melting pot, or other descriptions, but never a mutt. A mutt is reserved strictly for a dog in the circle of people I grew up with. It is extremely offensive to call someone a mutt in my book.

From where in the States do you hail?

[greenwanderer108]

Despite all the perverts, psychos, and not to mention people who hate me on Thaivisa, I couldn't resist posting my pics...so you don't feel left out Think too mut

luuk kreung father bottle feeding luuk siaw son

His face is changing everyday...today his white-peach fuzz eyebrows are starting to show...not to mention his widows peak!

Don't be shy to post your pictures...I love looking at the all the beautiful breeds of culture and race.

Edited April 16, 2006 by greenwanderer108

[Jasmine]

He's georgous Enjoy being a dad

[seonai]

What about some pics of the person who gave birth to him????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[seonai]

Also what happened to breast feeding ???????

[thaibebop]

Also what happened to breast feeding ???????

You want to see pictures of the child being breast fed?!

Edited April 16, 2006 by thaibebop

[Youbloodybeauty]

In Southeast Asia your primary genetic concern is Thalassemia which occurs as it does throughout Europe and Asia (sickle cell in Africa) wherever there is warm temps, mosquitos, and of course malaria. There is a decent chance a Southeast Asian will carry the gene for α-Thalassemia or β-Thalassemia. It will show itself to the pediatrician of your child with a slightly irregular iron reading in the blood work. Fortunately, being a carrier has absolutely no ill effect upon the person other than perhaps eliminating them from winning a marathon race in Denver. On the plus side, and the raison d'être for the existence of all Thalassemias, is that it provides protection from malaria, saving the lives of more people then it kills where malaria occurs.

Wow, this post was really interesting. Especially "Thalassemias provides protection from malaria".

My Thai wife went to a GP and mentioned a strange bruise she had on her hand after a slight accident. She went for a blood count which showed an "irregular iron reading".

Following a couple of months of worry (as my wifes sister died from a blood disorder) waiting to see a specialist and then to get further results back, we found out that she has Thalassemia.

The speciallist basically said goodbye, have a nice life! Great news!

Here is some further info on thalassemia:

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/...thalassemia.jsp

Cheers YBB

[greenwanderer108]

He's georgous Enjoy being a dad

Thanks...so far it's great, minus the daily 3 am wake up calls

What about some pics of the person who gave birth to him????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I'll show mine if you show yours... Before we get to the milk producing mommies, let's see your pokemon first

[Nawtilus]

Are you old enough to have a child greenboy, you look 16

[think_too_mut]

His face is changing everyday...today his white-peach fuzz eyebrows are starting to show...not to mention his widows peak!

Don't be shy to post your pictures...I love looking at the all the beautiful breeds of culture and race.

Their faces change daily, weekly pictures show even bigger difference. For those who wanted to see breast feeding, this is as close as I can show.

When she was 2 weeks old.

This is last year, 1 year old:

[greenwanderer108]

Are you old enough to have a child greenboy, you look 16

Thanks for the compliment...Actually, I'm 23 and at times still wish I was 16...must be these superior genes working on my side

Am I old enough? Well, last I checked, my baby boy was healthy with all fingers, toes, eyes, and ears there. I must be old enough by Darwin's book.

My father had my sister when he was 20, and me at my age. My mother had her first child at 22...and her last (me) at 39.

My grandfather, grandmother, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Some decide to wait till they are 30-40-50-and 60 so I've heard before they reproduce. Before I'm 60, I like the idea of being on top of three generations. and when I'm in my 70s, a fourth generation sounds nice.

My grandpa is 75, healthy, and has had great grandchildren for 10 years now. All are healthy and looks a good chance he can make the fifth generation when his health holds up the next decade or two.

For some, two generations is satifactory. Everyone to their own

[autonomous_unit]

Sorry for the delay... I tried not to spend too much time on the computer over the long weekend...

Greenwanderer, you asked one question I am not sure was answered in all those posts I just reviewed. Any genetic traits (wheter "dominant", "recessive", or otherwise) that can be passed to the next generation can theoretically be passed through any number of generations. The only thing that changes is the statistical chance. For example, if a trait is encoded in a single gene from one of your parents (and not the other), you have equal 50/50 odds of passing that trait to each child (or passing your other parent's version which is the "non-trait" gene, let's say). Assume your spouse and the children's eventual spouses do not have the trait. If the child gets it from you, they have the same 50/50 chance as you did to pass it on. If not, they have zero chance.

So, the chances of your grandchild having the trait or not are roughly 25% (50% squared). If you have lots and lots of children and they have lots and lots of children, this statistical figure should demonstrate itself across the population of grandchildren with roughly 25% of the kids having it. However, any one kid either has it or not. There is no having one quarter of it etc. It gets more interesting when both parents have the trait from one grandparent but not from both. There is a 25% chance of the child getting any of these permutations: the trait only from the father, the trait only from the mother, the trait from both, or the trait from neither. If we do not distinguish the two parents' traits as being different variants, this gives the 25%-50%-25%/none-one-both split you might remember from biology class (just adding the two 25% trait-from-one-parent choices together).

The issue here, as raised by others, is that some traits are benign or even beneficial when you have them passed by one parent, but they become pathological if you get them from both parents. The risks of this happening go up when mates are selected from a population with a higher incidence of this kind of genetic trait.

I am not sure why people are focusing on this mixed heritage thing... clearly there is no more risk here than if two people from the "source" population of the trait were to mate, as clearly often occurs. The only thing I can imagine here as a risk is that the people of mixed heritage may have the genetic legacy without the cultural legacy to inform of them of the risks, e.g. if half-asians reproduce in some primarily caucasian culture with medical systems not familiar with asian health issues. In today's global medical system, I am not sure how much of an issue that really is.

p.s. I am 32 yo from California and have also heard the M-word used affectionately and proudly by many of mixed genetic history. Even us caucasians will say it about ourselves if asked and we know where our immigrant roots are, including a few of the 1/8ths and 1/16ths. I've only heard "rainbow children" from left-over hippies in Berkeley. Funny how easy it is to offend by accident on the Internet... our words are closer but our minds can still be world's apart.

[greenwanderer108]

While I do get the jist of 'all or nothing'...i.e. you either get the gene or you don't....theory is theory and statistics talk...however, it raises even more questions about the inconsistencies in practice...

For example... Almost every luuk krueng I've seen/met will have brown hair and brown eyes. I always assumed it was the mix of blande/brown hair and black hair..

So when you have a farang father with blande hair blue eyes, and a Thai mother with black hair, dark brown eyes....the logic of all or nothing (as I comprehend A-units explanation) is that the kid will either inherit blande hair and/or blue eyes (which I've never seen among luuk kreungs) or will be born with black hair and dark brown eyes (which is not unheard of)

So, are you suggesting that all the luuk kreungs who have one parent who has bland hair/blue eyes and the other black hair/brown eyes inherited his/her brown hair from a grandparent?

And while we're at it...can anyone name a luuk kreung who actually naturally inherited blande hair (not golden brown) and/or green/blue eyes from a parent...cause I can't say that I've ever seen/heard of such cases.

Cheers

[bina]

green,

u have to look up the allelles for the blue/green eyes and blond hair etc...

among russian jews from galicia, we have green/hazel eyes with black hair, or red hair, or gold blond... but very white skin...

among circassian arabs: blond/red hair and light eyes

among jewish morrocans from casablanca only (french throwbacks) black hair, dark skin but green eyes...

so u have to check out which genes do what : and work out a complex punnett square for the inheritance of which traits....

and there is a problem with mixed genes and disorders if the doctors are not knowlegable: in israel there is a gene that causes an allergy/disorder to some enzyme in fava beans (also appears in some anesthetics that can cause death).... a regualr new york doctor might not know about this, whereas here i israel any baby of kurdish iraq etc decent, or mixed with some kurdish etc blood will be tested at birth for this disorder, to avoid problems in the future....

so it is helpful to know your genetic background although not always possible...

as my mother put it, my kids dont look jewish (she means they dont look russian/galica/jewish) as they have a hungarian/romanian jewish father so they all have blue eyes and blond hair and small noses (not the woody allen steryotype jew); and a friend's kids look 'arabic' as they are morrocan /polish (no blond at all, just polish jewish personality from father!)... the kids are all dark haired dark eyed dark skinned....but if they marry a blond/blue eyed mate, then there is a possibility for hazel eyes or light hair....etc etc etc..... and if i were to choose a mate based on genetics, i would choose someone w/o allergies and asthma since my kids got 200% bad genes and are all asthmatic/allergic

[Donz]

im a halfy,

I was born with blonde hair then as i got older its gotten darker.

Its dark brown ATM.

I got a cousin who is a halfy too and she is the same

Also i can do tricks

[greenwanderer108]

Thanks Bina for the colorful picture of Isreal...

That said, there still hasn't been an account with a half Thai having blue-green eyes...

BTW Donz...I was born with light dirty blande hair too, but I as you got darker with the age...

Never the less, can you ever recall seeing/meeting a luuk kreung or any half Asian for that matter

who had blue-green eyes and/or blande hair as an adult

???

Is it just not genetically possible?

Edited April 17, 2006 by greenwanderer108

[Donz]

my eyes sometimes turns green when I get pissed.

And yes ive seen a few with blue and green eyes.