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Thai Baht slides further against US$


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The baht's not really down THAT much.........yet..... I mean it's an improvement over 27B/$ and I'll take it, but it'd have to break 35, or maybe even 40, and fairly quickly, before I'd be impressed enough to assess the Thai economy "in ruins" with social disorder just around the corner. Yeah, completely subjective... Vis-à-vis the USD and European currencies, I can't get past the thought that this may be a race to the bottom.

The shifting of an economies currency value by 12% + in only 3-4 days is a move that you should be impressed with!

doesn't it have something to do with FOMC meeting earlier? about tapering on QE? no one mentioned about FOMC except the TH gov.

anyways am I right about this, they gonna end QE slowly so in the next month to a year or however long they totally end the QE, THB gonna really depreciate, so wire some USD over to TH bank and leave it there, exchange to THB when you need to. Like someone said earlier baht vs pound went down so their pension went up by 14.x%.

Outside of business accounts, is it possible to have a non-baht account in a Thai bank? I have a savings account with one, but wasn't aware that I could have anything but baht in it. I can transfer another currency, and the bank will do the currency exchange. Or I can set up a forex account somewhere to do the currency exchange there and deposit that. And I think businesses engaged in import/export can set up foreign currency accounts (probably with some sort of certificate or approval I'm guessing). But can a private person just for his own use do that?

You can but it is very expensive, are you wanting to make money on currency exchange? what is the purpose of you having multi-currency accounts in Thailand? The banks charge a lot of money. You are better off having multi-currency accounts off-shore. For convenience, I looked at multi-currency accounts with the Bangkok bank. They charged 1% fee for transferring money across the world! So for 100K GBP that costs a 1000 in fees. The Swiss bank charge me 25 pounds!

Well I SAID, "impressed" enough to assess the economy "in ruins"... Over the past few months, I've been watching the charts pretty carefully. And FWIW, the current run-up (of the $ vs the B) may not be over, but it seems to have slowed, having bounced off about 32.12 a couple of times & backed off. It looks like it's taken out a year-old resistance level at around 31.8 though and might be good now all the way to 35 or beyond, so I'm preparing to be more impressed... biggrin.png

Nah, no real interest really in a multi-currency account in Thailand. Someone else suggested it, and I was wondering if it were even possible. My brokerage & Kasikorn Bank seem to work quite well (& quickly) together when it comes to transferring funds and buying baht, so no real need. I guess the advantage of a multi-currency account if I had one would be to actually exchange money in a forex-like trade, and if that's an expensive service, then it wouldn't really be worthwhile for me.

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The stock market investors fleeing, is always only the first sign of trouble! Believe me - Any international company´s in Thailand are definitely seriously considering, if they should move out, and some of them definitely will. Cambodia seems a lot more attractive at the moment. Thailand has an unstable ecomony, unlimited corruption, unstable various governments, unstable population (Red shirts, Yellow shirts, Multicoilored shirts, White masks etc.) and currently an amnesty law on the way, which could possibly ignite the peoples anger, and make the Red shirts riot´s in 2010 look like a boy scout´s camp.

attachicon.gift30_23468987.jpgattachicon.gift17_23466815.jpgattachicon.gift39_23468729.jpg

If a company is going to go through the painful process of moving from Thailand due to risks, they are as such as hell not going to go to Cambodia. Cambodia has little to no road infrastructure, corruption is rife there, and if recent elections are anything to go by, it is a short distance from some of their own political strife. When Hun Sen is finally removed I am sure they will go through a painful period of politics as the various parties, families, armies fight for a piece of the pie.

I doubt very much Cambodia has or is planing on the infrastructure it would need for major manufactures.

I don't see companies rushing into Thailand recently.

Wary of China, Companies Head to Cambodia

By KEITH BRADSHER

Published: April 8, 2013

New York Times

PHNOM PENH, Cambodia — Tiffany & Company is quietly building a diamond-polishing factory in Cambodia, a country popularly associated more with killing fields and land mines than baubles.

Some of Japan’s biggest manufacturers are also rushing to set up operations in Phnom Penh to make wiring harnesses for cars and touch screens and vibration motors for cellphones. European companies are not far behind, making dance shoes and microfiber sleeves for sunglasses.

Foreign companies are flocking to Cambodia for a simple reason. They want to limit their overwhelming reliance on factories in China.

More

Edited by NeverSure
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The stock market investors fleeing, is always only the first sign of trouble! Believe me - Any international company´s in Thailand are definitely seriously considering, if they should move out, and some of them definitely will. Cambodia seems a lot more attractive at the moment. Thailand has an unstable ecomony, unlimited corruption, unstable various governments, unstable population (Red shirts, Yellow shirts, Multicoilored shirts, White masks etc.) and currently an amnesty law on the way, which could possibly ignite the peoples anger, and make the Red shirts riot´s in 2010 look like a boy scout´s camp.

attachicon.gift30_23468987.jpgattachicon.gift17_23466815.jpgattachicon.gift39_23468729.jpg

If a company is going to go through the painful process of moving from Thailand due to risks, they are as such as hell not going to go to Cambodia. Cambodia has little to no road infrastructure, corruption is rife there, and if recent elections are anything to go by, it is a short distance from some of their own political strife. When Hun Sen is finally removed I am sure they will go through a painful period of politics as the various parties, families, armies fight for a piece of the pie.

I doubt very much Cambodia has or is planing on the infrastructure it would need for major manufactures.

I don't see companies rushing into Thailand recently.

Wary of China, Companies Head to Cambodia

By KEITH BRADSHER

Published: April 8, 2013

New York Times

PHNOM PENH, Cambodia — Tiffany & Company is quietly building a diamond-polishing factory in Cambodia, a country popularly associated more with killing fields and land mines than baubles.

Some of Japan’s biggest manufacturers are also rushing to set up operations in Phnom Penh to make wiring harnesses for cars and touch screens and vibration motors for cellphones. European companies are not far behind, making dance shoes and microfiber sleeves for sunglasses.

Foreign companies are flocking to Cambodia for a simple reason. They want to limit their overwhelming reliance on factories in China.

More

It does go on to say "Foreign investment also jumped last year in Vietnam, Thailand, Myanmar and the Philippines." - its the hedging of bets, and supplemental production areas to China based operations - this is to offset the large pay rises that is occurring in China with the lowest of the low in Cambodia. They simply do not have the infrastructure yet to compete with Thailand (let alone China) - give them time ($1.5Bn rise in foreign investment if used wisely could make it more of a reality - we all know it would probably do diddly squat here - and be squandered). Give it a decade and many of us will probably be living there instead- and probably with businesses and jobs hassle free!

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of course, with all the issues going on and mismanagement of Pheau Thai. Xenophobic policies that contradict ASEAN.

What are the xenophobic policies?

Xenophobic Policies? that's Easy! "we sell everything in Thailand,but don't think you ever really own it"!

Edited by MAJIC
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4th year in BKK. and NOT an expert in currency

Assuming you are sending money back to the U.S.A- isn't better for the baht to decline.

Every month I send $1,000 USD home or app. 32,000 baht . minus bank fees.

If the Baht falls to 20 to 1 then my $1,000 USD would only cost me 20,000 Baht. A savings of 12,000 baht

Does a falling baht hurt those "in-country"?

Comments?

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4th year in BKK. and NOT an expert in currency

Assuming you are sending money back to the U.S.A- isn't better for the baht to decline.

Every month I send $1,000 USD home or app. 32,000 baht . minus bank fees.

If the Baht falls to 20 to 1 then my $1,000 USD would only cost me 20,000 Baht. A savings of 12,000 baht

Does a falling baht hurt those "in-country"?

Comments?

Sorry, you've got it back-to-front.

If the baht strengthens, you get your dollars for fewer baht, if it declines against the dollar then you need more baht to buy your thousand dollars.

Assuming you're being paid in baht, then the current weaker baht will increase the cost (in baht) of your monthly transfer, or reduce the number of dollars you get for a fixed number of baht.

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4th year in BKK. and NOT an expert in currency

Assuming you are sending money back to the U.S.A- isn't better for the baht to decline.

Every month I send $1,000 USD home or app. 32,000 baht . minus bank fees.

If the Baht falls to 20 to 1 then my $1,000 USD would only cost me 20,000 Baht. A savings of 12,000 baht

Does a falling baht hurt those "in-country"?

Comments?

Sorry, you've got it back-to-front.

If the baht strengthens, you get your dollars for fewer baht, if it declines against the dollar then you need more baht to buy your thousand dollars.

Assuming you're being paid in baht, then the current weaker baht will increase the cost (in baht) of your monthly transfer, or reduce the number of dollars you get for a fixed number of baht.

Again, not business minded.

But could give me an example?

Right now 32 to 1 Baht to USD 32000 baht = 1,000USD

Therefor, would 20 to 1 not translate to 20,000 baht= 1,000USD

Thanks for the help!

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OK - you've got 32,000THB, and the current xchg rate is 32:1 ('takes 32 baht to buy a dollar). When you go to send money back to US, you get 32000/32 = $1000.

But now the baht "weakens" (against the dollar), let's say to 35:1 (now takes 35 baht to buy a dollar). Now, your baht buy fewer dollars and when you send money back to US, you only get 32000/35 = $914.29.

Suppose instead the baht "strengthened", to let's say 30:1 (only takes 30 baht to buy a dollar). NOW your baht are buying more dollars and when you send money back to US, you get 32000/30 = $1066.67.

If you're getting paid in THB and living off of it, or sending it back to the US, you want the baht to get stronger, so fewer baht will buy more dollars.

If you're getting paid in USD and living off of it in Thailand, as so many expats here are, you want the dollar to get stronger, so fewer dollars will buy more baht.

If you're using dollars to import Thai goods, and the baht strengthens, those Thai goods have suddenly become more expensive in dollar terms (and you'll probably import fewer of them). The Thai seller probably won't be happy because of the loss of business. (Remember - he gets the same number of baht per unit no matter what.)

If you're using dollars to import Thai goods, and the dollar strengthens/baht weakens, those Thai goods get LESS expensive in dollar terms, you'll probably import more or them, and the Thai seller will be happy (again, he gets the same number of baht per unit, but increased sales).

'Think I've got it right... smile.png

Edited by hawker9000
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4th year in BKK. and NOT an expert in currency

Assuming you are sending money back to the U.S.A- isn't better for the baht to decline.

Every month I send $1,000 USD home or app. 32,000 baht . minus bank fees.

If the Baht falls to 20 to 1 then my $1,000 USD would only cost me 20,000 Baht. A savings of 12,000 baht

Does a falling baht hurt those "in-country"?

Comments?

Sorry, you've got it back-to-front.

If the baht strengthens, you get your dollars for fewer baht, if it declines against the dollar then you need more baht to buy your thousand dollars.

Assuming you're being paid in baht, then the current weaker baht will increase the cost (in baht) of your monthly transfer, or reduce the number of dollars you get for a fixed number of baht.

Again, not business minded.

But could give me an example?

Right now 32 to 1 Baht to USD 32000 baht = 1,000USD

Therefor, would 20 to 1 not translate to 20,000 baht= 1,000USD

Thanks for the help!

Yes, if the Baht strengthened to 20:1, you would get your $1,000 for B20,000, but your problem is that the Baht isn't strengthening, it's weakening/declining currently, from B30:$1 towards B32:$1

I think your misunderstanding may be, that when you say "isn't it better for the baht to decline", you mean 'isn't it better for the baht to strengthen', your problem is the terminology, not your understanding of what you want the exchange-rate to be.

Are you paid in Baht (as you imply ... by using to change baht to buy dollars) or US$ ?

If you were paid in dollars, then a weakening/declining Baht would mean you got more Baht for your dollars, but if you're paid in Baht (as I deduce) then you need to pay more Baht to get your $1,000, you're worse off at 32 than at 30.

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4th year in BKK. and NOT an expert in currency

Assuming you are sending money back to the U.S.A- isn't better for the baht to decline.

Every month I send $1,000 USD home or app. 32,000 baht . minus bank fees.

If the Baht falls to 20 to 1 then my $1,000 USD would only cost me 20,000 Baht. A savings of 12,000 baht

Does a falling baht hurt those "in-country"?

Comments?

Sorry, you've got it back-to-front.

If the baht strengthens, you get your dollars for fewer baht, if it declines against the dollar then you need more baht to buy your thousand dollars.

Assuming you're being paid in baht, then the current weaker baht will increase the cost (in baht) of your monthly transfer, or reduce the number of dollars you get for a fixed number of baht.

Again, not business minded.

But could give me an example?

Right now 32 to 1 Baht to USD 32000 baht = 1,000USD

Therefor, would 20 to 1 not translate to 20,000 baht= 1,000USD

Thanks for the help!

Yes, if the Baht strengthened to 20:1, you would get your $1,000 for B20,000, but your problem is that the Baht isn't strengthening, it's weakening/declining currently, from B30:$1 towards B32:$1

I think your misunderstanding may be, that when you say "isn't it better for the baht to decline", you mean 'isn't it better for the baht to strengthen', your problem is the terminology, not your understanding of what you want the exchange-rate to be.

Are you paid in Baht (as you imply ... by using to change baht to buy dollars) or US$ ?

If you were paid in dollars, then a weakening/declining Baht would mean you got more Baht for your dollars, but if you're paid in Baht (as I deduce) then you need to pay more Baht to get your $1,000, you're worse off at 32 than at 30.

Paid in Baht.

"Light dawns on marble head"

Now, I understand.

In other words, if the Thai economy booms the baht will strengthened?

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The forecasts I'm reading are for the Baht to continue to slide. Especially with the US tapering off it's stimulus programs, and the weakening Asian economy.

What have you guys read?

the problem with all forecasts is that they pertain to the future. that's why i prefer verifiable "aftercasts" tongue.png

as far as currency forecasts are concerned my (long term) experience is that the learned forecast-gurus are wrong 7-8 times out of 10.

an excellent example are the forecasts "the Dollar is doomed!" which started more than 40 years ago and never ended till this very morning.

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The forecasts I'm reading are for the Baht to continue to slide. Especially with the US tapering off it's stimulus programs, and the weakening Asian economy.

What have you guys read?

the problem with all forecasts is that they pertain to the future. that's why i prefer verifiable "aftercasts" tongue.png

as far as currency forecasts are concerned my (long term) experience is that the learned forecast-gurus are wrong 7-8 times out of 10.

an excellent example are the forecasts "the Dollar is doomed!" which started more than 40 years ago and never ended till this very morning.

Agreed! Except for the part where the forecasts of the dollar is doomed ending this morning! 555555555

wai2.gif

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The forecasts I'm reading are for the Baht to continue to slide. Especially with the US tapering off it's stimulus programs, and the weakening Asian economy.

What have you guys read?

the problem with all forecasts is that they pertain to the future. that's why i prefer verifiable "aftercasts" tongue.png

as far as currency forecasts are concerned my (long term) experience is that the learned forecast-gurus are wrong 7-8 times out of 10.

an excellent example are the forecasts "the Dollar is doomed!" which started more than 40 years ago and never ended till this very morning.

Agreed! Except for the part where the forecasts of the dollar is doomed ending this morning! 555555555

wai2.gif

is it my Tcherman English that caused the misunderstanding Craig? what i meant is that "the Dollar is doomed" forecasts did not end and are still plastered by gurus and eggsburts globally across the media.

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is it my Tcherman English that caused the misunderstanding Craig? what i meant is that "the Dollar is doomed" forecasts did not end and are still plastered by gurus and eggsburts globally across the media.

Sorry! It's probably me. Trying to juggle too many things right now. Including dealing with my 88 year old mother, who fell yesterday and sprained her ankle. Luckily that was all that happened. It was scary. Now we have to watch her like a 2 year old as she doesn't think staying off it will help! Watching her limp around yelping in pain is well....what can ya do. Another challenge to deal with!

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4th year in BKK. and NOT an expert in currency

Assuming you are sending money back to the U.S.A- isn't better for the baht to decline.

Every month I send $1,000 USD home or app. 32,000 baht . minus bank fees.

If the Baht falls to 20 to 1 then my $1,000 USD would only cost me 20,000 Baht. A savings of 12,000 baht

Does a falling baht hurt those "in-country"?

Comments?

Sorry, you've got it back-to-front.

If the baht strengthens, you get your dollars for fewer baht, if it declines against the dollar then you need more baht to buy your thousand dollars.

Assuming you're being paid in baht, then the current weaker baht will increase the cost (in baht) of your monthly transfer, or reduce the number of dollars you get for a fixed number of baht.

Again, not business minded.

But could give me an example?

Right now 32 to 1 Baht to USD 32000 baht = 1,000USD

Therefor, would 20 to 1 not translate to 20,000 baht= 1,000USD

Thanks for the help!

The Baht cannot 'fall' to a higher value! The Baht has never been 20 to one Dollar in living memory. Traditionally is was 25-30 to one Dollar for decades and was linked to the value of the U.S. Dollar until 1997 when the real estate bubble burst and the Baht could no longer be tied to the Dollar and was floated. The value got as low 60 Baht to one Dollar. Earlier this year, the value of the Baht got to as strong as 28.6 Baht to the Dollar. Currently the trend is for a weaker Baht and you will need more Baht to buy a dollar now compared to two weeks ago.

Your math above is correct and it the Baht was one Baht to one Dollar, 1000 Baht would buy 1000 Dollars. The falling (declining value of) Baht hurts those who depend on the Baht for their paycheck because fuel is imported and higher costs for fuel translates to higher costs for, transportation and energy which translates to higher costs for production and for everything that is transported. Electricity prices will rise because some of it is generated with imported oil. The price of imported goods will also rise. I don't understand why you are having problems with understanding. Ricardo gave a perfectly understandable answer to your question. Are you a blonde by any chance?

Edited by rametindallas
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Oh noes, the sky is rising. The sky is RISING !! Run for your ATMs/Exchange Booths ! Buy something now, sell something later !!

-----------------------------

Not to be critical but in fact it is the U.S. Dollar that is gaining against other currencies.

Basically the economic facts in the U.S. are looking slightly more optimistic than in Thailand at the moment.

It's a relative judgement thing ... but right now the dollar looks to be slightly more favorable than the Baht at least for the short term.

I guess it comes out to the same result anyway.

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There are guys on here -- and elsewhere to be sure -- who are smarter than everybody else when the dollar goes down and those who are smarter than everybody else when the dollar goes up -- and they often the same guys.

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Paid in Baht.

"Light dawns on marble head"

Now, I understand.

In other words, if the Thai economy booms the baht will strengthened?

Yes, you've got it now.

And as the Thai economy weakens, with a technical-recession now & government-mismanagement & long-term borrowing to fund dodgy populist policies, your pay will buy you fewer dollars to send home every month.

But it's good news for those of us, who rely on pensions-from-home or overseas-earnings, and bring money into Thailand to pay for our living-costs here.

Edited by Ricardo
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The Baht cannot 'fall' to a higher value! The Baht has never been 20 to one Dollar in living memory. Traditionally is was 25-30 to one Dollar for decades and was linked to the value of the U.S. Dollar until 1997 when the real estate bubble burst and the Baht could no longer be tied to the Dollar and was floated.

it is correct that the Baht cannot fall to a higher value. incorrect is that the Baht was never 20 to the Dollar.

my first visit to Thailand was in 1973 when one Dollar bought 20 Baht. this pegged rate lasted till 1985 when the new peg 25 Baht to the Dollar was established that lasted till the float in summer 1997.

by the way, in the 70s you could use in most BKK shops Dollars to pay for the items you bought.

Edited by Naam
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The Thai economy is in ruins, thanks to the fiscal mismanagement of the PTP led government. Foreign investor are fleeing like rats from a sinking ship, while the cabinet meander away with bulging pocket, leaving the Thai taxpayer to foot the bill. But its all mai pen rai till the time it takes a days wages to buy a serve of som tam, only by then there will be a wall of security keeping them in check.

Bernanke turned off the tap. Yingluck isn't helping, but this is hardly a fair fight, the FED versus the BOT.

Bernanke hasn't turned off the tap and hasn't even declared when he will turn off the tap. Market participants are assuming that it will be in September, but that is simply speculation. Bernanke continues to declare that he is waiting for the unemployment rate to go below 7% in the U.S. before tapering unless inflation heats up. It is unlikely that either will happen before the next Fed meeting in September. Thailand will get a reprieve when tapering continues, but at some point the tapering will end and when the tap really is turned off there is little the BoT will be able to do. Actually I'm surprised the baht has remained as resilient as it has this year even though tapering talk is just rumors and speculation at this point. Look at currencies of other countries with high current account deficits (Turkey, India, Indonesia, Brazil to name a few).

Interest rates causing carry trade.

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Hopefully Sterling will also rise. Not much as of now, but perhaps there is sunshine and happiness ahead for those of us with UK money.

It's been a long and painful time for those of us that were here in the days of 70 baht to the pound.

Someone always has to piss on your parade. I arrived here for good [?] in May 2007 during those relative halcyon days.

However: Every cloud has a silver lining for those who are willing [able?] to bide their time.

Certainly not in the least wishing ill on our hosts. Wishing ill on those who manipulate our world for their personal gain, when they already have more than enough, is a very different story.

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The Thai economy is in ruins, thanks to the fiscal mismanagement of the PTP led government. Foreign investor are fleeing like rats from a sinking ship, while the cabinet meander away with bulging pocket, leaving the Thai taxpayer to foot the bill. But its all mai pen rai till the time it takes a days wages to buy a serve of som tam, only by then there will be a wall of security keeping them in check.

Bernanke turned off the tap. Yingluck isn't helping, but this is hardly a fair fight, the FED versus the BOT.

Bernanke hasn't turned off the tap and hasn't even declared when he will turn off the tap. Market participants are assuming that it will be in September, but that is simply speculation. Bernanke continues to declare that he is waiting for the unemployment rate to go below 7% in the U.S. before tapering unless inflation heats up. It is unlikely that either will happen before the next Fed meeting in September. Thailand will get a reprieve when tapering continues, but at some point the tapering will end and when the tap really is turned off there is little the BoT will be able to do. Actually I'm surprised the baht has remained as resilient as it has this year even though tapering talk is just rumors and speculation at this point. Look at currencies of other countries with high current account deficits (Turkey, India, Indonesia, Brazil to name a few).

Interest rates causing carry trade.

Interest rates were causing carry trade in some emerging markets, but with U.S. interest rates rising and likely to rise more, those carry trades are unwinding. Maybe soon time for the Japanese carry trade to begin once again?

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