Question about Condo Parking

[mania]

We were curious about condo parking & rights

It seems the committee has decided to sell half of the parking as a means to raise money to rent some land

for additional parking nearby. Meaning you can buy an existing space for a yearly fee.

Our question is this, When we bought, we bought what we thought was this condo with use of the common areas.

Which included parking, albeit not much of it.

Is it allowed they now half the included parking & change it to a for fee parking to finance the additional parking

Not a very big deal but just something we were curious about.

Edited August 24, 2013 by mania

[yankee99]

I am not a expert but i think this would need a vote at a agm meeting. I know a condo that wanted to use some of its property for a playground and they needed a agm vote. In regards to parking we issue free stickers for owners to have prefered parking.

I would ask in writing by certified mail to your management company and or committee...if they need a vote at the agm?

[mania]

I am not a expert but i think this would need a vote at a agm meeting. I know a condo that wanted to use some of its property for a playground and they needed a agm vote. In regards to parking we issue free stickers for owners to have prefered parking.

I would ask in writing by certified mail to your management company and or committee...if they need a vote at the agm?

Thanks yankee

What is the agm?

The notice we got was from the Juristic & it just said our committee had decided?

But we had no notice of any such meeting

[ripley]

You need to get a copy of Thai condo Law or google it up (on the "samui for sale" site). You can't afford to be so naive.

The quick answer to your question is that your parking area is part of the "Common Property" - that property which you own and pay maintenance on with the other residents. Any act which affects the Common Property has to be proposed at a General meeting - either your AGM or an EGM (extraordinary general meeting). That is the Law. Half of the voting units must vote in favour of your committee's plan or it's a no-go.

[yankee99]

^^^I agree with ripley although i am not sure about needing 50%. The agm is required annualy and needs a specific % for a quram (spelling). If not met a second meeting is held within a specific time frame where majority votes.

Now a major change to common areas may only be allowed with 50%. So if the agm never achieves 50% then it can never pass.

[mania]

You need to get a copy of Thai condo Law or google it up (on the "samui for sale" site). You can't afford to be so naive.

The quick answer to your question is that your parking area is part of the "Common Property" - that property which you own and pay maintenance on with the other residents. Any act which affects the Common Property has to be proposed at a General meeting - either your AGM or an EGM (extraordinary general meeting). That is the Law. Half of the voting units must vote in favour of your committee's plan or it's a no-go.

Thanks that is good to know

also now that you describe EGM I can assume AGM is annual general meeting

I will look for that Thai Condo Law you spoke of

I do have the Condo Act but have only skimmed it.

Thanks again for the info

[yankee99]

egm is either emergency/extrodinary general meeting and held if a vote is needed. Lets say your condo needs more money for a repair. Thus a meeting and a vote approving collection of extra funds.

[Basil B]

Sorry I can not just lay my hands on my copy of "Condo Law" but as I seem to recall there are many things a committee can not do without a certain percentage of owners voting in favour.

This is not a percentage at a AGM/EGM but is all owners, as I recall for some things the vote needs to be 75% this is why many condos are unable to increase the maintenance fees, and clearly with ever increasing costs they need too.

The book on condo law is a must for any condo owner.

[smutcakes]

Mania,to do this they need to have a General Meeting. As per Section 48 of the condo act reads "The following resolutions shall require not less than one-half of the total number of votes of all joint owners"

The parts of this section which would fall under this necessity and require this General Meeting would be:

(1) A buying of immovable property or an acceptance of immovable property with liens as common property.

(7) A seeking of benefits in the common property

You could make an argument that this type of issue falls under some of the other parts of section 48 as well.

Please note that it requires 50% of the total number of Co-owners, not just the 50% of those in the room. Also remember that if there is insufficient quorum to vote at the first meeting, then a second meeting should be held within 15 days, where there will be no quorum to form the meeting, and to pass the section 48 issues, it requires not less than one third of the total votes, rather than 50%.

Basil B, all 75% issues were removed when the act was amended, and they are not 50%.

[PattayaPhom]

Sell parking space so they can then rent parking space?. Are they selling land that is only parking for maybe 10 cars but renting land that would accomodate 30 cars?

As stated above a vote is required. It seems to be a common occurance now that managements are finding ways to raise funds that amounts to no more than common theft/blackmail from residents. The past few weeks have come accross 50% increase in maintenace fees at Beach Mountain and a 2,000 Baht charge for debt free letter at Condochain.

[mania]

Sell parking space so they can then rent parking space?. Are they selling land that is only parking for maybe 10 cars but renting land that would accomodate 30 cars?

I guess I worded that poorly

They would be in fact taking half the common area parking & turning it into a rent each space per year parking.

(To existing owners )

Their thinking being they will then use that money to rent more land nearby & create more parking.

Also yes they are trying to rent out about half the number of spaces that they would then create elsewhere

I just thought it odd that in a sense they take what ( I thought ) we already owned an undivided interest in & basically

now ask us if we want to rent it.

Edited August 25, 2013 by mania

[Crossy]

Condo act is here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/320264-the-condominium-act-and-definition-of-a-condominium-in-thailand/

I doubt they can do what our OP is saying without a full vote at an EGM.

[yankee99]

Sell parking space so they can then rent parking space?. Are they selling land that is only parking for maybe 10 cars but renting land that would accomodate 30 cars?

As stated above a vote is required. It seems to be a common occurance now that managements are finding ways to raise funds that amounts to no more than common theft/blackmail from residents. The past few weeks have come accross 50% increase in maintenace fees at Beach Mountain and a 2,000 Baht charge for debt free letter at Condochain.

You have to understand that the condo act is flawed in regard to common fees. To raise common fees 50% of total owners need to vote otherwise they can not be raised. In large building with owners from around the world sometimes this is impossible to do. .... So if your fees are not enough to take care of your building and you can not raise the common fees this becomes a bad situation. Now if you are lucky and have a creative committee they will find other ways to bill the co-owners to make up the money shortages.

[PattayaPhom]

Sell parking space so they can then rent parking space?. Are they selling land that is only parking for maybe 10 cars but renting land that would accomodate 30 cars?

As stated above a vote is required. It seems to be a common occurance now that managements are finding ways to raise funds that amounts to no more than common theft/blackmail from residents. The past few weeks have come accross 50% increase in maintenace fees at Beach Mountain and a 2,000 Baht charge for debt free letter at Condochain.

You have to understand that the condo act is flawed in regard to common fees. To raise common fees 50% of total owners need to vote otherwise they can not be raised. In large building with owners from around the world sometimes this is impossible to do. .... So if your fees are not enough to take care of your building and you can not raise the common fees this becomes a bad situation. Now if you are lucky and have a creative committee they will find other ways to bill the co-owners to make up the money shortages.

That's all well and good but its only through mismanagement that the need to increase fees will arise. So because an elected jobsworth is useless at their job, everyone has to pay.

[yankee99]

Sell parking space so they can then rent parking space?. Are they selling land that is only parking for maybe 10 cars but renting land that would accomodate 30 cars?

As stated above a vote is required. It seems to be a common occurance now that managements are finding ways to raise funds that amounts to no more than common theft/blackmail from residents. The past few weeks have come accross 50% increase in maintenace fees at Beach Mountain and a 2,000 Baht charge for debt free letter at Condochain.

You have to understand that the condo act is flawed in regard to common fees. To raise common fees 50% of total owners need to vote otherwise they can not be raised. In large building with owners from around the world sometimes this is impossible to do. .... So if your fees are not enough to take care of your building and you can not raise the common fees this becomes a bad situation. Now if you are lucky and have a creative committee they will find other ways to bill the co-owners to make up the money shortages.

That's all well and good but its only through mismanagement that the need to increase fees will arise. So because an elected jobsworth is useless at their job, everyone has to pay.

Really i am glad my co-owners dont have that attitude. We know that cost of living goes up almost every year. Salaries alone went up to 300 baht a day. If your building was collecting 5000 baht a unit 5 years ago and cant get more i guess they should fire the security and turn off the common area power....if no one wants to pay...

Not sure what inflation has to do with mis management.

[smutcakes]

Sell parking space so they can then rent parking space?. Are they selling land that is only parking for maybe 10 cars but renting land that would accomodate 30 cars?

As stated above a vote is required. It seems to be a common occurance now that managements are finding ways to raise funds that amounts to no more than common theft/blackmail from residents. The past few weeks have come accross 50% increase in maintenace fees at Beach Mountain and a 2,000 Baht charge for debt free letter at Condochain.

You have to understand that the condo act is flawed in regard to common fees. To raise common fees 50% of total owners need to vote otherwise they can not be raised. In large building with owners from around the world sometimes this is impossible to do. .... So if your fees are not enough to take care of your building and you can not raise the common fees this becomes a bad situation. Now if you are lucky and have a creative committee they will find other ways to bill the co-owners to make up the money shortages.

That's all well and good but its only through mismanagement that the need to increase fees will arise. So because an elected jobsworth is useless at their job, everyone has to pay.

How clueless are you- should the management of predicted the floods which increased insurance premiums by 300%? Should the management of anticipated the 60% increase in security, cleaning, etc due to the minimum wage increase? I have really no idea how you can make your comment it is so naive not just in this situation, but relative to every day life- costs of things have generally been rising for the past god knows how many decades, how can it be possible to not at some point have to increase the fee?