English-language course a hit

[willyumiii]

I taught English on a voluntary basis, 10 hours or so a week, at a local school for 5 years. I gather now it was probably illegal, but no one said anything at the time. Just to give a personal perspective on a number of points raised.

a). All, but all the children from P4 to M3 wanted to learn English, they were keen and well motivated.

. The Thai teacher for English was also keen for me to help him, he would check with me on a number of points. In 5 years he improved a lot, went to another school eventually as deputy head.

c), I tried, with some success, to make learning English as fun, joking a lot - they loved it. Over time, I had most of the teachers at the school just come and watch me in action; my teaching practice was totally different from the Thai 'talk-n-chalk; approach. I gather my different approach had some impact throughout the school, much closer interaction with teacher/pupil participation.

d) Although unpaid, one of the best moves I have ever made - I am socially accepted throughout the Tambon as the Farang that helped the children.

e) I have now great joy in having ex-pupils now at University coming up to me and chatting in English about how they are getting on, delightful.

So, I am not pessimistic like some previous posters on Thais learning English - they'll get there eventually,

Ditto!

That's my story to the letter, except with me it was 8 hours per week..

Same reaction from the students, teachers and the public.

My nick name became " Teacher Jai Dee" and still is in the local Tambon.

Like you, I have great hopes.

Make it fun and interesting and the Thais love to learn.

[Scott]

A post containing foreign language has been deleted. Please stick to English. It is the only language allowed outside the Thai language forum.

[willyumiii]

When Thais call me Farang, I reply that I am not a farang, I am a pineapple.

They usually laugh!

o.k.?

lol

[pookiki]

For those of you who have made posts on this topic, the biggest problem I see in Thai textbooks for the English language is 'transliteration' - usually, the representation of a foreign language in one's native alphabet. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. For instance, In Thai, the sounds 'v', 'th' and 'z' do not exist. If these texts continue to use the Thai alphabet to represent these English sounds, students start off on the wrong foot in pronunciation. Thai linguists need to develop a sound system of transliteration for students to learn English pronunciation properly. Try to get a Thai to say the word 'van' or 'this'. Invariably they will say 'wan' or 'dis'. When I learned Thai, Burmese, and Cambodian the written lessons were based on transliteration that included symbols not contained in the English alphabet. This is rudimentary linguistics. I am just dumbfounded as to why it has yet to occur.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Completely disagree with your assessment, having been in many cities/towns etc in Thailand, not only BKK, and in my opinion English conversational skills generally are exeptionally poor, if one say compares similar situations in Cambodia, were people seem quite comfortable working between 2, 3,4 languages...ie English,French, Khmer and even Thai.

I'd certainly agree about that in regards to Cambodia... Spent some vacation time in Phnom Penh last year, and was amazed at the English fluency of all kinds of folks there...not just the tourist oriented ones.

From everything I could see there, the English fluency rate at least in PP puts Thailand, and Bangkok, to shame.

In Thailand and even BKK, on the other hand, I'm usually pretty surprised when I meet any Thai who can speak passable English...because I meet so few of them compared to the portion who can't. And none of that interaction is hanging out in bars.

Edited August 25, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lee b]

English is a very difficult language to learn, this is why half the English can't speak it correctly.

[robblok]

I am Dutch we are known to speak our languages, I can tell you single biggest reason why we spoke better English as most Germans. Our movies and TV series that came from the USA were not dubbed we had subtitles and that was it. The Germans up until recent dubbed it all.

Computer games and TV have helped me a lot, then of course there was school and that helped me to establish a good vocabulary in the end if you don't hear a language often enough you will never learn it properly. My Thai is not as good as it should be because I work alone and don't come into contact enough with Thais. Now on days that i go out with the GF and her friends and they speak Thai i learn a lot again (because i have enough of a basis now after studying it) But using a language and hearing it a lot is the most important thing (in my experience).

Now how much English do you see in Thailand.. not much so they just don't need the language and forget it. Bring in more English or American Tv put in subtitles and don't dub it. If the programs are interesting enough they will learn English.

[Thunder26]

TV, always so negative!

On occasion, I assist the Thai English teacher at my local school.

His English is very good, better than most Thais I know who live in the USA, and I know quite a few there.

He often asks me to proof read his lesson plans and comes to me often with questions about correct pronunciation. It is rare that I find errors in what he has me review.

It seems most TV members are full of criticism for just about anything Thais do or attempt to do. I wonder how much actual hands on knowledge they have about what they criticize.

Also, I know that many students do pretty darn good with conversational English if you make the effort to teach them and make it interesting for them. I see this in the school and also with the children in my village.

If they are interested, and want to learn, they work very hard at it and do well.

I have hands on experience with Thais and the English language...I know!

Please post about what you know...like your Chang Classic vs Import and refrain from the beer soaked rants about what you don't know!

Agreed to your point of view, but generally speaking Thailand, when it comes to English skills is at the bottom of ASEAN! What can you say about that? Yes, there are Thai individuals who speak very good English. Yes , there are very bright students who speak very good English! So do the other countries in ASEAN! But unfortunately the proportion surpasses well beyond what Thailand can offer!

Edited August 25, 2013 by Thunder26

[rametindallas]

TV, always so negative!

On occasion, I assist the Thai English teacher at my local school.

His English is very good, better than most Thais I know who live in the USA, and I know quite a few there.

He often asks me to proof read his lesson plans and comes to me often with questions about correct pronunciation. It is rare that I find errors in what he has me review.

It seems most TV members are full of criticism for just about anything Thais do or attempt to do. I wonder how much actual hands on knowledge they have about what they criticize.

Also, I know that many students do pretty darn good with conversational English if you make the effort to teach them and make it interesting for them. I see this in the school and also with the children in my village.

If they are interested, and want to learn, they work very hard at it and do well.

I have hands on experience with Thais and the English language...I know!

Please post about what you know...like your Chang Classic vs Import and refrain from the beer soaked rants about what you don't know!

Nice trolling! Can't you make your point without insulting other members of TV? You seem to believe your experience is universal and others are making up untruths to bash Thais. I have seen examples in Thailand of nearly every poster's experience. No one is denying there are some excellent English teachers in the Kingdom and other Thais who speak English well. Are you arguing that more than 5% of Thais are proficient in English?

I believe the reason Thais don't speak English is they are not exposed to situations where English is required and/or the Thai education system has beaten/numbed the students into apathy about learning in general. Thais are above average in intellect but some of the most incurious people I have ever met. My Thai GF reads English language newspapers to me, phonetically, and asks when she comes to a word she doesn't know. She has a sixth grade formal education but has educated herself to a much higher level because she dropped out of school before the brainwashing to be a slave to the system set in. My best Thai friend lived in the U.S. for twenty five years and his accent is stronger than my GF's who has never been out of Thailand. My bank, on Suk 10 has dozens of employees but only two are proficient in English. Until English skills are valued and aspired to, there will be no momentum for greater usage and Thailand will lag behind.

If you think my post is 'bashing' Thailand, you are hopeless.

[Torrens54]

Not at all impressed with some of the so called "English Language" text books, let alone some of the Thai teachers who claim the are teaching English at their schools.

[Torrens54]

Here's the solution:

How many NES retirees without degrees living in Thailand?

How many of those would like to teach English to Thais?

How many of these are capable of teaching, or have the ability to teach?

I was thinking at least hundreds, perhaps thousands.

Formulate an "English Teaching Entrance Test" to determine their suitability/aptitude for teaching. Those that pass the test get a special "Retirement Teaching Visa" and work permit, and are able to commence teaching subject to a successful interview.

Alternatively, simply scrap the degree requirement and make the TEFL qualification mandatory. Keep the entrance test which would cover things like aptitude and behavioural qualities relevant to the job description. Having a Degree in Economics simply does not suddenly make you a good English teacher.

If you think my ideas are self-serving, yes they probably are to some degree. However, I think this is an opportunity to utilise an existing resource in Thailand, at a low cost for the government (except for the face-factor, I guess!)

An excellent idea and in Singapore, Malaysia maybe even in Indonesia it would probably work but sadly, not in Thailand. Why you ask?

Because only Thais know what is best for Thailand.

[rametindallas]

I taught English on a voluntary basis, 10 hours or so a week, at a local school for 5 years. I gather now it was probably illegal, but no one said anything at the time. Just to give a personal perspective on a number of points raised.

a). All, but all the children from P4 to M3 wanted to learn English, they were keen and well motivated.

. The Thai teacher for English was also keen for me to help him, he would check with me on a number of points. In 5 years he improved a lot, went to another school eventually as deputy head.

c), I tried, with some success, to make learning English as fun, joking a lot - they loved it. Over time, I had most of the teachers at the school just come and watch me in action; my teaching practice was totally different from the Thai 'talk-n-chalk; approach. I gather my different approach had some impact throughout the school, much closer interaction with teacher/pupil participation.

d) Although unpaid, one of the best moves I have ever made - I am socially accepted throughout the Tambon as the Farang that helped the children.

e) I have now great joy in having ex-pupils now at University coming up to me and chatting in English about how they are getting on, delightful.

So, I am not pessimistic like some previous posters on Thais learning English - they'll get there eventually,

Only if they are lucky enough to be exposed to teachers like yourself. Kudos to you for making a change in those student's lives.

[rametindallas]

Here's the solution:

How many NES retirees without degrees living in Thailand?

How many of those would like to teach English to Thais?

How many of these are capable of teaching, or have the ability to teach?

I was thinking at least hundreds, perhaps thousands.

Formulate an "English Teaching Entrance Test" to determine their suitability/aptitude for teaching. Those that pass the test get a special "Retirement Teaching Visa" and work permit, and are able to commence teaching subject to a successful interview.

Alternatively, simply scrap the degree requirement and make the TEFL qualification mandatory. Keep the entrance test which would cover things like aptitude and behavioural qualities relevant to the job description. Having a Degree in Economics simply does not suddenly make you a good English teacher.

If you think my ideas are self-serving, yes they probably are to some degree. However, I think this is an opportunity to utilise an existing resource in Thailand, at a low cost for the government (except for the face-factor, I guess!)

Ah, you are using logic in the Orient. Government would have to approve of this plan and no government in the World does something because it is the right thing. IF Thailand were to implement this scheme, it would surpass it neighbors in short order.

[therealjride]

I teach conversational English as a volunteer at the Migrant Worker Rights Network School in Mahachai and at the Dear Burma school in Bangkok. I have been teaching in Mahachai for nearly a year now. I teach 2 and a half hours every Sunday. I have also attempted to teach English to Thai students as well. The biggest stumbling block I have encountered is correct pronunciation. I agree with several of the posts that Thais and Burmese need to learn from a native speaker. Otherwise, they will not learn to speak English correctly. Luckily, I have studied Thai, Burmese, and Cambodian at the University of Hawaii years ago along with quite a few linguistic courses. Therefore, I know the pitfalls of pronunciation that exist.

Unfortunately, a person's ability to learn a foreign language is directly proportional to the amount of time the student is able to use the language outside the classroom. The Thai government, if they are really interested in their students learning conversational English, will rely exclusively on native speakers who have a good grasp of teaching English. As long as they are more concerned with credentials than competence, it will never happen.

Interesting perspective. IMO, it isn't necessary for anyone to learn English from a native English speaker. I recall in high school learning French, beit French I've forgotten and was never very good at, from a non-French person who, as you would expect, was fluent and a professional, well-trained teacher. I imagine many other westerners learned a foreign language from a similar non-native speaker. Fluency plus professionalism and good training are the elements that are missing from many Thai-ESL classrooms. In terms of pronunciation, it's is a beast when trying to communicate only one or two words (as many on the board may recall when learning their first few Thai words), but pronunciation becomes less of a barrier for communication when mistakes are made within context or within a sentence where the receiver can derive the meaning from circumstance or inference.

Teachers who want to teach English should all take a TESOL and score at least 900, including native English speakers. And, I don't assign any value to those coming from a country who's first langauge is English because most Thais won't use authentic communication with native English speakers anyway. They're much more likely to be speaking with others that learned English as a second language as well like Malaysians, Burmese, Chinese, Russians and so on. And, so far as ascent goes, I don't think it matters if they learn their English with an American accent or an Indian accent. The point it to have enough command of the language to communicate effectively to whatever degree is needed.

Edited August 25, 2013 by therealjride

[Soutpeel]

If you think my post is 'bashing' Thailand, you are hopeless.

I am sure someone will be along shortly to suggest that you are either a sexpat or an alcoholic, or both, you should learn Thai or if you dont like it you should leave..

Edited August 26, 2013 by Soutpeel

[sawadee1947]

It's really a crap shoot when it comes to English Language Skills. I stopped to get gas in the middle of nowhere in a place two provinces away from Bangkok. The young man, with shaggy hair, filthy clothes and yellow teeth said, "May I help you?" I told him to fill it up with 95. When he was done he told me the amount owed in English and I asked for a receipt in English and got it.

In the same province, I stopped at a local shopping mall to ask for directions and no one would speak English and were running away like the place was on fire! I did manage to get someone 'cornered' and asked for the directions of where I wanted to go. The person did grunt out a few words in English and did some pointing. Obviously they understood, but were very shy to actually try and speak English.

...would be a good idea to buy a navi for your car......

[pookiki]

I teach conversational English as a volunteer at the Migrant Worker Rights Network School in Mahachai and at the Dear Burma school in Bangkok. I have been teaching in Mahachai for nearly a year now. I teach 2 and a half hours every Sunday. I have also attempted to teach English to Thai students as well. The biggest stumbling block I have encountered is correct pronunciation. I agree with several of the posts that Thais and Burmese need to learn from a native speaker. Otherwise, they will not learn to speak English correctly. Luckily, I have studied Thai, Burmese, and Cambodian at the University of Hawaii years ago along with quite a few linguistic courses. Therefore, I know the pitfalls of pronunciation that exist.

Unfortunately, a person's ability to learn a foreign language is directly proportional to the amount of time the student is able to use the language outside the classroom. The Thai government, if they are really interested in their students learning conversational English, will rely exclusively on native speakers who have a good grasp of teaching English. As long as they are more concerned with credentials than competence, it will never happen.

Interesting perspective. IMO, it isn't necessary for anyone to learn English from a native English speaker. I recall in high school learning French, beit French I've forgotten and was never very good at, from a non-French person who, as you would expect, was fluent and a professional, well-trained teacher. I imagine many other westerners learned a foreign language from a similar non-native speaker. Fluency plus professionalism and good training are the elements that are missing from many Thai-ESL classrooms. In terms of pronunciation, it's is a beast when trying to communicate only one or two words (as many on the board may recall when learning their first few Thai words), but pronunciation becomes less of a barrier for communication when mistakes are made within context or within a sentence where the receiver can derive the meaning from circumstance or inference.

Teachers who want to teach English should all take a TESOL and score at least 900, including native English speakers. And, I don't assign any value to those coming from a country who's first langauge is English because most Thais won't use authentic communication with native English speakers anyway. They're much more likely to be speaking with others that learned English as a second language as well like Malaysians, Burmese, Chinese, Russians and so on. And, so far as ascent goes, I don't think it matters if they learn their English with an American accent or an Indian accent. The point it to have enough command of the language to communicate effectively to whatever degree is needed.

Sorry, but I find your post to be somewhat schizophrenic. And before I get to explaining my opinion, can you please define "authentic communication". I have no idea what that means. On one hand, you say that 'professionalism and good training' are the elements missing from many Thai-ESL classrooms. Despite this assertion, you say that it is ok to do a sloppy job with pronunciation because the likelihood of a Thai communicating with another person who is a native English speaker is very limited. I also vehemently disagree with your assertion that it doesn't make that much difference if a native speaker teaches a language or not. I would always rely on learning a language from a native speaker given the opportunity. There are just too many subtle nuances in a language that a non-native speaker does not know or cannot explain. I spent a good chunk of my life in Hawaii where 'pidgin' English is used as the 'lingua franca' among local people. It is colorful and understandable after a while. But to use 'pidgin' outside the confines of Hawaii would make a person appear to be very uneducated even if he could communicate. What you advocate is for the use of 'pidgin' English by Thais. As long as they can communicate or grunt and point, they will be fine. Truly professional!!

[Noistar]

I teach conversational English as a volunteer at the Migrant Worker Rights Network School in Mahachai and at the Dear Burma school in Bangkok. I have been teaching in Mahachai for nearly a year now. I teach 2 and a half hours every Sunday. I have also attempted to teach English to Thai students as well. The biggest stumbling block I have encountered is correct pronunciation. I agree with several of the posts that Thais and Burmese need to learn from a native speaker. Otherwise, they will not learn to speak English correctly. Luckily, I have studied Thai, Burmese, and Cambodian at the University of Hawaii years ago along with quite a few linguistic courses. Therefore, I know the pitfalls of pronunciation that exist.

Unfortunately, a person's ability to learn a foreign language is directly proportional to the amount of time the student is able to use the language outside the classroom. The Thai government, if they are really interested in their students learning conversational English, will rely exclusively on native speakers who have a good grasp of teaching English. As long as they are more concerned with credentials than competence, it will never happen.

Interesting perspective. IMO, it isn't necessary for anyone to learn English from a native English speaker. I recall in high school learning French, beit French I've forgotten and was never very good at, from a non-French person who, as you would expect, was fluent and a professional, well-trained teacher. I imagine many other westerners learned a foreign language from a similar non-native speaker. Fluency plus professionalism and good training are the elements that are missing from many Thai-ESL classrooms. In terms of pronunciation, it's is a beast when trying to communicate only one or two words (as many on the board may recall when learning their first few Thai words), but pronunciation becomes less of a barrier for communication when mistakes are made within context or within a sentence where the receiver can derive the meaning from circumstance or inference.

Teachers who want to teach English should all take a TESOL and score at least 900, including native English speakers. And, I don't assign any value to those coming from a country who's first langauge is English because most Thais won't use authentic communication with native English speakers anyway. They're much more likely to be speaking with others that learned English as a second language as well like Malaysians, Burmese, Chinese, Russians and so on. And, so far as ascent goes, I don't think it matters if they learn their English with an American accent or an Indian accent. The point it to have enough command of the language to communicate effectively to whatever degree is needed.

Sorry, but I find your post to be somewhat schizophrenic. And before I get to explaining my opinion, can you please define "authentic communication". I have no idea what that means. On one hand, you say that 'professionalism and good training' are the elements missing from many Thai-ESL classrooms. Despite this assertion, you say that it is ok to do a sloppy job with pronunciation because the likelihood of a Thai communicating with another person who is a native English speaker is very limited. I also vehemently disagree with your assertion that it doesn't make that much difference if a native speaker teaches a language or not. I would always rely on learning a language from a native speaker given the opportunity. There are just too many subtle nuances in a language that a non-native speaker does not know or cannot explain. I spent a good chunk of my life in Hawaii where 'pidgin' English is used as the 'lingua franca' among local people. It is colorful and understandable after a while. But to use 'pidgin' outside the confines of Hawaii would make a person appear to be very uneducated even if he could communicate. What you advocate is for the use of 'pidgin' English by Thais. As long as they can communicate or grunt and point, they will be fine. Truly professional!!

I often wonder what ability a graduate from a western university, having a degree in Thai, would have.

In my ignorance I would assume fluency.

I know of somebody working in the British Consulate who had zero knowledge of Thai before their posting. They had an intensive 1 year study and became fluent enough to deal effectively with both Thai and British citizens.

Makes you wonder what Thais do for 14 years at school "good morning teacher etc, etc" and x years at university to end up with no English ability. I gave up on French at school (many, many years ago) but my residual French still outshines the 'nit noi English' graduates.

[Noistar]

English is a very difficult language to learn, this is why half the English can't speak it correctly.

I love sweeping statements. Saves having to think.

My English bad like what yours ain't.