Does Face Make Creative Thought Impossible?

[jamman]

"Even a single taboo can have an all-round crippling effect upon the mind, because there is always the danger that any thought which is freely followed up may lead to the forbidden thought... If (the writer) is to switch his allegiance at exactly the right moment, he must either tell lies about his subjective feelings, or else suppress them altogether. In either case he has destroyed his dynamo... the prose writer cannot narrow the range of his thoughts without killing his inventiveness... Unless spontaneity enters at some point or another, literary creation is impossible, and language itself becomes something totally different from what it is now, we may learn to separate literary creation from intellectual honesty. At present we know only that the imagination, like certain wild animals, will not breed in captivity" - George Orwell.

Ask a SE Asian to tell you a fictional story - to on the spot invent a tale. All that I have asked can not. Ok, maybe that skill is too complicated. Ask one to narrate any interesting instance of their life. Most not only will not, they CAN not. There are simply too many mental blocks - there is too much dangerous territory - will they reveal something about themselves? Must they take some sort of stand, betray an opinion? They will panick at the thought of free flowing yet structured thought, freeze, and claim that they "have no stories to tell". A Thai has no story - no history - no personal identity that can be shared. Because of the blocks to thinking imposed by face.

Sometimes someone is capable of narrating some personal events, but I've never heard a story told that included commentary. It will be a strict chronological telling of events that happened. Nothing will be mentioned of the meanings of events, their import to the person, their feelings about them, how they were affected or changed by them, how they see the world now because of the events. Strict narrative with no editorial. Meaningless, or at least, the meanings in the story must remain unconscious and unspoken, like meanings in a passing dream. Vaguely felt but not fully known, ephemeral, and relating to no real thing. The Thai remains semi-conscious, not articulating his history to himself, not making mental maps of meaning, not gathering and garnering potions of wisdom from his events. He just wades from moment to moment, semi literate, semi conscious. May pen rai. "You think too mutch", he will say, when you catch him in inconsistencies. He prefers his mental blocks and illogical catch22 paradoxes and blind spots to too much thinking or other painful clarities.

[cooL_guY_corY]

"Even a single taboo can have an all-round crippling effect upon the mind, because there is always the danger that any thought which is freely followed up may lead to the forbidden thought... If (the writer) is to switch his allegiance at exactly the right moment, he must either tell lies about his subjective feelings, or else suppress them altogether. In either case he has destroyed his dynamo... the prose writer cannot narrow the range of his thoughts without killing his inventiveness... Unless spontaneity enters at some point or another, literary creation is impossible, and language itself becomes something totally different from what it is now, we may learn to separate literary creation from intellectual honesty. At present we know only that the imagination, like certain wild animals, will not breed in captivity" - George Orwell.

Ask a SE Asian to tell you a fictional story - to on the spot invent a tale. All that I have asked can not. Ok, maybe that skill is too complicated. Ask one to narrate any interesting instance of their life. Most not only will not, they CAN not. There are simply too many mental blocks - there is too much dangerous territory - will they reveal something about themselves? Must they take some sort of stand, betray an opinion? They will panick at the thought of free flowing yet structured thought, freeze, and claim that they "have no stories to tell". A Thai has no story - no history - no personal identity that can be shared. Because of the blocks to thinking imposed by face.

Sometimes someone is capable of narrating some personal events, but I've never heard a story told that included commentary. It will be a strict chronological telling of events that happened. Nothing will be mentioned of the meanings of events, their import to the person, their feelings about them, how they were affected or changed by them, how they see the world now because of the events. Strict narrative with no editorial. Meaningless, or at least, the meanings in the story must remain unconscious and unspoken, like meanings in a passing dream. Vaguely felt but not fully known, ephemeral, and relating to no real thing. The Thai remains semi-conscious, not articulating his history to himself, not making mental maps of meaning, not gathering and garnering potions of wisdom from his events. He just wades from moment to moment, semi literate, semi conscious. May pen rai. "You think too mutch", he will say, when you catch him in inconsistencies. He prefers his mental blocks and illogical catch22 paradoxes and blind spots to too much thinking or other painful clarities.

thats how it is and thats how i like it

Edited April 17, 2006 by cooL_guY_corY

[Donz]

who is George Orwell? This article is probaly based on his ex-wife who took his house

[think_too_mut]

You might be rising some good questions that may help the westerners in their race after their own tail.

MBAs, great universities but still - bankrupt 80% of airlines, bankrupt world's biggest car manufacturers.

Contrary to your post, the people portraid as inferior (SE Asians) are prosperring. Best airlines, best cars, growth everywhere.

Have you thought the other way - SE Asians asking you and expecting answers to their liking? You might be choking and hessitating to answer.

Singapore is also SE Asia. They can teach the world a thing or two.

Japan is Asia too. China even more, due to it's economic growth.

That might make obsolete any of your worries. Or, if you insist, may form western sections equivalent to today's islamist bitter fractions.

[jamman]

Contrary to your post, the people portraid as inferior (SE Asians) are prosperring. Best airlines, best cars, growth everywhere.

Have you thought the other way - SE Asians asking you and expecting answers to their liking? You might be choking and hessitating to answer.

Singapore is also SE Asia. They can teach the world a thing or two.

Japan is Asia too. China even more, due to it's economic growth.

That might make obsolete any of your worries. Or, if you insist, may form western sections equivalent to today's islamist bitter fractions.

SE Asia makes the best cars? <deleted>? The decent cars are made in Japan and Korea, right? That's not SE Asia. I was talking about Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia - that region.

And Singapore stands out because it incorporated and kept the strong British governmental systems that the west imposed, and because it imported brains from outside the region. Many smart Chinese and Indians. It is hardly a SE Asian country, in anything but location.

NE Asia has an average IQ the highest in the world, if you dont' count the Ashkenazi Jews. Korea is measuring the highest in the world, with Japan a very close second. Japan has strong issues of face, but in their businesses they seem to have found some ways to promote innovation none the less, and Japan can no longer be thought of as merely a copy cat country. And as another poster mentioned before, the way Japan handles face is very different from how it is handled in Thailand.

In any case, my question was whether face in Thailand makes people boring and less capable of original spontaneous thinking, as one would expect it would, because any thing that you aren't supposed to mention will block free thinking as well, as George Orwell articulated so well.

[think_too_mut]

as George Orwell articulated so well.

Don't know who that geezer is.

Did he do much good for the western world? I would have heard if he had.

[jamman]

as George Orwell articulated so well.

Don't know who that geezer is.

Did he do much good for the western world? I would have heard if he had.

You wear irreverent ignorance as a badge of pride. Fred on Everything writes about you. www.fredoneverything.net/Peasantariat.shtml

[Donz]

Contrary to your post, the people portraid as inferior (SE Asians) are prosperring. Best airlines, best cars, growth everywhere.

Have you thought the other way - SE Asians asking you and expecting answers to their liking? You might be choking and hessitating to answer.

Singapore is also SE Asia. They can teach the world a thing or two.

Japan is Asia too. China even more, due to it's economic growth.

That might make obsolete any of your worries. Or, if you insist, may form western sections equivalent to today's islamist bitter fractions.

SE Asia makes the best cars? <deleted>? The decent cars are made in Japan and Korea, right? That's not SE Asia. I was talking about Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia - that region.

And Singapore stands out because it incorporated and kept the strong British governmental systems that the west imposed, and because it imported brains from outside the region. Many smart Chinese and Indians. It is hardly a SE Asian country, in anything but location.

NE Asia has an average IQ the highest in the world, if you dont' count the Ashkenazi Jews. Korea is measuring the highest in the world, with Japan a very close second. Japan has strong issues of face, but in their businesses they seem to have found some ways to promote innovation none the less, and Japan can no longer be thought of as merely a copy cat country. And as another poster mentioned before, the way Japan handles face is very different from how it is handled in Thailand.

In any case, my question was whether face in Thailand makes people boring and less capable of original spontaneous thinking, as one would expect it would, because any thing that you aren't supposed to mention will block free thinking as well, as George Orwell articulated so well.

tell us what you think of the thai people in your words??

Face has nothing to do with original spontaneous thinking.

[think_too_mut]

as George Orwell articulated so well.

Don't know who that geezer is.

Did he do much good for the western world? I would have heard if he had.

You wear irreverent ignorance as a badge of pride. Fred on Everything writes about you. www.fredoneverything.net/Peasantariat.shtml

What Fred? Ahh, Fred! Him?

****unessesary comment deleted - log off and grow up before coming back****

Good bye.

Edited April 17, 2006 by cdnvic

[jamman]

tell us what you think of the thai people in your words??

Face has nothing to do with original spontaneous thinking.

Why does face have nothing to do with original spontaneous thinking? Do you agree, or disagree with Orwell, that if there are some things we are not supposed to think or say, it will in generall hamper our overall ability to think creatively? Do you think that Face makes it harder to discuss some things publicly? If yes to #1 and yes to #2, shouldn't the conclusion be that Face hampers free thinking and free expression?

And why must you reduce this discussion to what I think of the Thai people? What difference does it make? The question still stands - does face hamper free thought and free expression?

Let's look at a different culture, if you can't stand any criticism of Thais. What about those who think that seeing the female body will arouse lust, and so females should be covered up? They are not supposed to think sex or surf porn, but their countries have high incest rates and high rates of rape. They limit their free expression of taboo subjects, and so can't think clearly about them, and wind up causing all sorts of nuiscance and trouble. Anything you are not supposed to think about will come back at you and bite you in the ass. Face causes mental blockages. That's a fact, regardless what I think of Thais.

[elkangorito]

"Even a single taboo can have an all-round crippling effect upon the mind, because there is always the danger that any thought which is freely followed up may lead to the forbidden thought... If (the writer) is to switch his allegiance at exactly the right moment, he must either tell lies about his subjective feelings, or else suppress them altogether. In either case he has destroyed his dynamo... the prose writer cannot narrow the range of his thoughts without killing his inventiveness... Unless spontaneity enters at some point or another, literary creation is impossible, and language itself becomes something totally different from what it is now, we may learn to separate literary creation from intellectual honesty. At present we know only that the imagination, like certain wild animals, will not breed in captivity" - George Orwell.

Ask a SE Asian to tell you a fictional story - to on the spot invent a tale. All that I have asked can not. Ok, maybe that skill is too complicated. Ask one to narrate any interesting instance of their life. Most not only will not, they CAN not. There are simply too many mental blocks - there is too much dangerous territory - will they reveal something about themselves? Must they take some sort of stand, betray an opinion? They will panick at the thought of free flowing yet structured thought, freeze, and claim that they "have no stories to tell". A Thai has no story - no history - no personal identity that can be shared. Because of the blocks to thinking imposed by face.

Sometimes someone is capable of narrating some personal events, but I've never heard a story told that included commentary. It will be a strict chronological telling of events that happened. Nothing will be mentioned of the meanings of events, their import to the person, their feelings about them, how they were affected or changed by them, how they see the world now because of the events. Strict narrative with no editorial. Meaningless, or at least, the meanings in the story must remain unconscious and unspoken, like meanings in a passing dream. Vaguely felt but not fully known, ephemeral, and relating to no real thing. The Thai remains semi-conscious, not articulating his history to himself, not making mental maps of meaning, not gathering and garnering potions of wisdom from his events. He just wades from moment to moment, semi literate, semi conscious. May pen rai. "You think too mutch", he will say, when you catch him in inconsistencies. He prefers his mental blocks and illogical catch22 paradoxes and blind spots to too much thinking or other painful clarities.

Maybe this is why Thais don't have alarming rates of Diabetes, Cancer, Obesity, ADS, OCD, Coronary Disease as Westerners do have? I'll stick with their "don't worry, be happy" attitude...it's healthier. I'm beginning to appreciate the "you think too much" phrase.

Also, I do know many Thais who are more than capable of being interesting participants in topics of discussion. These wonderful people are mostly my students & some of my friends.

[Sing_Sling]

What Fred? Ahh, Fred! Him?

[silly comment edited]

Good bye.

Ah, what style and class . . .

Just a note about Singapore importing Indians and Chinese to further the cause of advancement, there are many more Caucasian expats in Singapore in local government and non-government positions than Indian or China nationas.

The good thing about Singaporaens is that they are not too upset at the income and status disparity craeted by this. I can guarantee that if this were the case with Indian or Chinese nationals, however, the locals here would be peeved. After all, like compared to like.

[Donz]

I dont see how face causes mental blockages like you say, Japan have face too and they dont have "mental blockage" like you have said.

And how does face hamper free thought??

[jamman]

.

Maybe this is why Thais don't have alarming rates of Diabetes, Cancer, Obesity, ADS, OCD, Coronary Disease as Westerners do have? I'll stick with their "don't worry, be happy" attitude...it's healthier. I'm beginning to appreciate the "you think too much" phrase.

Also, I do know many Thais who are more than capable of being interesting participants in topics of discussion. These wonderful people are mostly my students & some of my friends.

I'm not following you here. At first you seem to imply that because Thais don't think too much, they are healthier, and you appreciate the attitude. Then you imply that many Thais are perfectly capable of thinking clearly and participating in discussions.

I'm sorry, but which is it? They can think? They can't? They can but choose not to?

[jamman]

I dont see how face causes mental blockages like you say, Japan have face too and they dont have "mental blockage" like you have said.

And how does face hamper free thought??

"Face" is where you are supposed to be ultra tactful to the point of not being critical of someone or something. Face is where you find it very difficult to be publicly criticised. Both are examples of not being allowed to express things - you are not allowed to be critical or be critisized. If there is some taboo subject, some subject that is not supposed to be mentioned or talked about, that causes mental blockages because you have to be careful not to talk about something that might allude to, or bring up that subject. So generally you can't think honestly and straightforwardly and directly. You have to pussy foot and dance diplomatically around subjects and blind yourself to harsh realities that might cause someone - yourself or others - to lose face.

[jdinasia]

"Even a single taboo can have an all-round crippling effect upon the mind, because there is always the danger that any thought which is freely followed up may lead to the forbidden thought... If (the writer) is to switch his allegiance at exactly the right moment, he must either tell lies about his subjective feelings, or else suppress them altogether. In either case he has destroyed his dynamo... the prose writer cannot narrow the range of his thoughts without killing his inventiveness... Unless spontaneity enters at some point or another, literary creation is impossible, and language itself becomes something totally different from what it is now, we may learn to separate literary creation from intellectual honesty. At present we know only that the imagination, like certain wild animals, will not breed in captivity" - George Orwell.

Ask a SE Asian to tell you a fictional story - to on the spot invent a tale. All that I have asked can not. Ok, maybe that skill is too complicated. Ask one to narrate any interesting instance of their life. Most not only will not, they CAN not. There are simply too many mental blocks - there is too much dangerous territory - will they reveal something about themselves? Must they take some sort of stand, betray an opinion? They will panick at the thought of free flowing yet structured thought, freeze, and claim that they "have no stories to tell". A Thai has no story - no history - no personal identity that can be shared. Because of the blocks to thinking imposed by face.

Sometimes someone is capable of narrating some personal events, but I've never heard a story told that included commentary. It will be a strict chronological telling of events that happened. Nothing will be mentioned of the meanings of events, their import to the person, their feelings about them, how they were affected or changed by them, how they see the world now because of the events. Strict narrative with no editorial. Meaningless, or at least, the meanings in the story must remain unconscious and unspoken, like meanings in a passing dream. Vaguely felt but not fully known, ephemeral, and relating to no real thing. The Thai remains semi-conscious, not articulating his history to himself, not making mental maps of meaning, not gathering and garnering potions of wisdom from his events. He just wades from moment to moment, semi literate, semi conscious. May pen rai. "You think too mutch", he will say, when you catch him in inconsistencies. He prefers his mental blocks and illogical catch22 paradoxes and blind spots to too much thinking or other painful clarities.

Start with a guy with a narrowly misquoted out of context piece of Drivel .... and then watch his jump ACROSS topics to make the drivel stick to an unassociated topic .....

You might be rising some good questions that may help the westerners in their race after their own tail.

MBAs, great universities but still - bankrupt 80% of airlines, bankrupt world's biggest car manufacturers.

Contrary to your post, the people portraid as inferior (SE Asians) are prosperring. Best airlines, best cars, growth everywhere.

Have you thought the other way - SE Asians asking you and expecting answers to their liking? You might be choking and hessitating to answer.

Singapore is also SE Asia. They can teach the world a thing or two.

Japan is Asia too. China even more, due to it's economic growth.

That might make obsolete any of your worries. Or, if you insist, may form western sections equivalent to today's islamist bitter fractions.

Then Mix in a guy that can't read the topic and just call it a silly fabrication ..... ... and watch the chaos that ensues!

wheee ! Fun!

[Donz]

I dont see how face causes mental blockages like you say, Japan have face too and they dont have "mental blockage" like you have said.

And how does face hamper free thought??

"Face" is where you are supposed to be ultra tactful to the point of not being critical of someone or something. Face is where you find it very difficult to be publicly criticised. Both are examples of not being allowed to express things - you are not allowed to be critical or be critisized. If there is some taboo subject, some subject that is not supposed to be mentioned or talked about, that causes mental blockages because you have to be careful not to talk about something that might allude to, or bring up that subject. So generally you can't think honestly and straightforwardly and directly. You have to pussy foot and dance diplomatically around subjects and blind yourself to harsh realities that might cause someone - yourself or others - to lose face.

How does face affect you in business?

Finding it difficult being criticised publicly does not just affect people in SE asia.

In business theyh are critical and do get critisized.

I still dont get how this gives mental blockages?

what other "blockages" does it cause?

[jamman]

".

Start with a guy with a narrowly misquoted out of context piece of Drivel .... and then watch his jump ACROSS topics to make the drivel stick to an unassociated topic .....

.

Then Mix in a guy that can't read the topic and just call it a silly fabrication ..... ... and watch the chaos that ensues!

wheee ! Fun!

> Start with a guy with a narrowly misquoted out of context piece of Drivel

Did you actually mean to mean anything by that? Are you trying to make any sort of sense?

What do you mean by "misquoted"?

What do you mean by "out of context"

I have no idea - honestly - I'm not just trying to win argument points - I have no idea what, if anything, you are trying to convey. Orwell was not misquoted. And his thoughts are way too specific to ever be "out of context". He very specifically states that if any subject is taboo, it will cause mental blockages.

I then "jumped" wildly about to bring in the subject of face. I asked the question - is face something that is similar to taboo subjects? Would it therefore also cause mental blocks?

It isn't difficult to either appreciate Orwells sentiments or follow from them to my question.

Edited April 17, 2006 by jamman

[Ollie]

Isn't this all a bit psuedo-intellectual?

A quote from George Orwell - not sure if taken out of context as we don't have the whole - being used to ask a question to define or interpret attitudes in SE Asia?

Thats a big leap!

Great writer, though.

[Donz]

I thought Orwell was semi retarded

[jdinasia]

Taking a piece of writing ABOUT writing ... and trying to make it about "Face" is plain silliness .....

It was misquoted through ommission (thankfully ... it was a dry paragraph to begin with)

Forbidden thought in Thailand? I don't know ANY forbidden thought ... there are some forbidden (taboo) topics of discussions .. either across age boundaries or other boundaries ... in polite company. These boundaries are set aside often.

But oi .... the madness that ensues

[robitusson]

"Even a single taboo can have an all-round crippling effect upon the mind, because there is always the danger that any thought which is freely followed up may lead to the forbidden thought... If (the writer) is to switch his allegiance at exactly the right moment, he must either tell lies about his subjective feelings, or else suppress them altogether. In either case he has destroyed his dynamo... the prose writer cannot narrow the range of his thoughts without killing his inventiveness... Unless spontaneity enters at some point or another, literary creation is impossible, and language itself becomes something totally different from what it is now, we may learn to separate literary creation from intellectual honesty. At present we know only that the imagination, like certain wild animals, will not breed in captivity" - George Orwell.

Ask a SE Asian to tell you a fictional story - to on the spot invent a tale. All that I have asked can not. Ok, maybe that skill is too complicated. Ask one to narrate any interesting instance of their life. Most not only will not, they CAN not. There are simply too many mental blocks - there is too much dangerous territory - will they reveal something about themselves? Must they take some sort of stand, betray an opinion? They will panick at the thought of free flowing yet structured thought, freeze, and claim that they "have no stories to tell". A Thai has no story - no history - no personal identity that can be shared. Because of the blocks to thinking imposed by face.

Sometimes someone is capable of narrating some personal events, but I've never heard a story told that included commentary. It will be a strict chronological telling of events that happened. Nothing will be mentioned of the meanings of events, their import to the person, their feelings about them, how they were affected or changed by them, how they see the world now because of the events. Strict narrative with no editorial. Meaningless, or at least, the meanings in the story must remain unconscious and unspoken, like meanings in a passing dream. Vaguely felt but not fully known, ephemeral, and relating to no real thing. The Thai remains semi-conscious, not articulating his history to himself, not making mental maps of meaning, not gathering and garnering potions of wisdom from his events. He just wades from moment to moment, semi literate, semi conscious. May pen rai. "You think too mutch", he will say, when you catch him in inconsistencies. He prefers his mental blocks and illogical catch22 paradoxes and blind spots to too much thinking or other painful clarities.

Maybe their egos aren't big enough to fill their heads with constant judgements and catagorisations about evrything that goes on in life? Maybe they aren't obsessed with the cult of personality as much as Westerners are?...yet. Maybe they see themselves as part of a whole and are more concerned with the well-being and prosperity of that whole rather than the whims and demands of a single skin-encapsulated ego that thinks it's the centre of the universe only concerned with itself?

Edited April 17, 2006 by robitusson

[ourmanflint]

Don't fret Jamman.....

You're not going mad, you cannot express any opinion on these boards that so much as hints at an attack on "thai " culture, without people jumping on their own silly little soapboxes and shouting as loud as possible, that there must be something wrong with you for even thinking such a thing.. I cannot for the life of me work put why though. Usually only ignorant and uneducated people think and behave like that, and I know for a fact there are some very clever people on these forums, so go figure!!

I think it is a very interesting question the OP has brought up, and that's all it was... a question.

[meemiathai]

I dont see how face causes mental blockages like you say, Japan have face too and they dont have "mental blockage" like you have said.

And how does face hamper free thought??

"Face" is where you are supposed to be ultra tactful to the point of not being critical of someone or something. Face is where you find it very difficult to be publicly criticised. Both are examples of not being allowed to express things - you are not allowed to be critical or be critisized. If there is some taboo subject, some subject that is not supposed to be mentioned or talked about, that causes mental blockages because you have to be careful not to talk about something that might allude to, or bring up that subject. So generally you can't think honestly and straightforwardly and directly. You have to pussy foot and dance diplomatically around subjects and blind yourself to harsh realities that might cause someone - yourself or others - to lose face.

There you go again, Jamman.

I would only half agree with you on "Face Make Creative Thought Impossible". The situation as you mentioned makes people think even more, be more creative and imaginative in order to solve the problems, as they are not allowed to say things out directly. For example, in ancient China, those who live around and serve the emperor have to be really smart in order to survive. There were always situations where neither the truth or a lie can be told.

Edited April 17, 2006 by meemiathai

[tc101]

I agree with Orwell that "Even a single taboo can have an all-round crippling effect upon the mind". However, I see those taboos in every culture, including my own here in the USA. One of the very biggest taboos I am aware of in my culture is talking about how other people's religious ideas don't make any sense. Since these religious ideas are at the very heart of our whole world view it is quite a big taboo and creates major blocks to communication.

I am sure each of us can think of other examples from our own cultures.

Earlier someone asked who George Orwell was. He was a fomous writter. His most famous book was "1984". He thought alot about the nature of mind control in a police state and how changing language could change the way people thought.

[Ollie]

Don't fret Jamman.....

You're not going mad, you cannot express any opinion on these boards that so much as hints at an attack on "thai " culture, without people jumping on their own silly little soapboxes and shouting as loud as possible, that there must be something wrong with you for even thinking such a thing.. I cannot for the life of me work put why though. Usually only ignorant and uneducated people think and behave like that, and I know for a fact there are some very clever people on these forums, so go figure!!

I think it is a very interesting question the OP has brought up, and that's all it was... a question.

With all due respect, I spoke as I found.

By all means ask the question, I just don't get the link to Orwell, thats all.

I don't have enough knowledge to answer, but it seems to me that very big generalisations are being made by the OP?

Its a lot to deduce from simply trying to draw a few people into conversation. If someone I didn't know to well asked me to act in this way, I might be hesitant, its called British reserve.

[jdinasia]

Don't fret Jamman.....

You're not going mad, you cannot express any opinion on these boards that so much as hints at an attack on "thai " culture, without people jumping on their own silly little soapboxes and shouting as loud as possible, that there must be something wrong with you for even thinking such a thing.. I cannot for the life of me work put why though. Usually only ignorant and uneducated people think and behave like that, and I know for a fact there are some very clever people on these forums, so go figure!!

I think it is a very interesting question the OP has brought up, and that's all it was... a question.

I am sorry ... what was the "question"?

[cdnvic]

I thought Orwell was semi retarded

How ironic

cv

[OlRedEyes]

There are more taboos in SEA than you can shake a stick at.

My experience is the minds have been so securely locked away that it is impossible for the person to have free thought. They simply cannot find the key, its gone.

Sad, but after 13 years I'm convinced it is the case. Maybe in another couple of generations...

[jamman]

Isn't this all a bit psuedo-intellectual?

A quote from George Orwell - not sure if taken out of context as we don't have the whole - being used to ask a question to define or interpret attitudes in SE Asia?

Thats a big leap!

Great writer, though.

The words I quoted from Orwell can't be taken out of context, because they are not contextual. If I were to quote him saying that five is a larger number than four, must I also quote the context for that? There is no context for that. It is an abstract statement that applies whenever one talks about the numbers five and four. Orwell said that ANY taboo subject causes blocks to thinking. That is not a context dependent statement.

And if you are unable to see the analogy between a taboo and face, I'm not sure if you really want me to make it clear, of if you want me instead to just be wrong. It seems very straightforward to me, and not a leap at all. A taboo is some subject that is not to be spoken of. Face, the need to save people from embarassment also very often makes is such that one is not supposed to talk about certain subjects. The spedific subjects, the specific taboos, may change. But certainly sometimes face makes some subjects off limits. There is no huge leap between taboo and face, it is a straightforward and logical comparison of like categories. Is face a kind of taboo? Does taboo cause mental block? If yes and yes, isn't there some logical inference to be made?