'No doubt' Syria used chemical arms, says US Vice-President Joe Biden

[webfact]

'No doubt' Syria used chemical arms, says US Vice-President Joe Biden

WASHINGTON: -- US Vice-President Joe Biden has said there is "no doubt" that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons and that it must be held accountable.

The US has said its military is ready to launch strikes should President Barack Obama order an attack, and allies say they too are ready to act.

The Syrian government has strongly denied claims it used chemical weapons.

UN weapons inspectors are set to return to the site of last week's suspected attack near Damascus on Wednesday.

Their evidence-gathering visit was delayed by a day after they were fired on.

The US says it will release its own intelligence report into the incident at Ghouta, a suburb of the capital, in the coming days.

More than 300 people reportedly died there.

Full story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23859892


-- BBC 2013-08-28

[gerry1011]

The world's populace believed the "little drawings" that Donald Rumsfeld showed on TV to convince them that there were weapons of mass destruction in the hands of Saddam...

Here we go again with a new pretext to remove Bashar al Assad.

The Islamists must laugh at westerners who come to help them in one more country...

[webfact]

Syrian doctors smuggle samples from chemical attack victims to Jordan - media

Syrian doctors secretly sent biological samples from victims of the alleged chemical attack near Damascus to Jordan for tests, reported on Monday by French radio station, Europe 1.

According to the radio station’s website, the samples of blood, urine and hair will be studied at a French laboratory.

Last week, British newspaper The Guardian, quoting sources inside rebel-held districts, reported that at least three victims of the alleged chemical weapons attack have been smuggled to Jordan where samples of their biological material will help to determine which agent was used to during the gas attack. The samples being sourced are biopsies of livers and spleens from fatalities, as well as blood and urine from survivors.

According to the Guardian, an active network of defectors, some of whom had fled the Syrian military's chemical warfare division, were helping to smuggle the samples.

Several media outlets reported that Syrian forces unleashed toxic gas on two neighbourhoods on the outskirts of Damascus on August 21.

The Syrian opposition stated that regime forces killed hundreds of civilians with chemical agents.
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad denied accusations his government was behind the attacks, calling the charges an "insult to common sense".

On Monday UN inspectors arrived in the area near Damascus, where the alleged chemical weapons attack took place and started to collect samples from the site.

Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_08_27/Syrian-doctors-smuggle-to-Jordan-biomaterials-of-chemical-attack-s-victims-media-3449/

-- THE VOICE OF RUSSIA 2013-08-28

[lee b]

And the US could run out of money by October, No wonder...

[midas]

Syrian doctors smuggle samples from chemical attack victims to Jordan - media

Syrian doctors secretly sent biological samples from victims of the alleged chemical attack near Damascus to Jordan for tests, reported on Monday by French radio station, Europe 1.

According to the radio station’s website, the samples of blood, urine and hair will be studied at a French laboratory.

Last week, British newspaper The Guardian, quoting sources inside rebel-held districts, reported that at least three victims of the alleged chemical weapons attack have been smuggled to Jordan where samples of their biological material will help to determine which agent was used to during the gas attack. The samples being sourced are biopsies of livers and spleens from fatalities, as well as blood and urine from survivors.

According to the Guardian, an active network of defectors, some of whom had fled the Syrian military's chemical warfare division, were helping to smuggle the samples.

Several media outlets reported that Syrian forces unleashed toxic gas on two neighbourhoods on the outskirts of Damascus on August 21.

The Syrian opposition stated that regime forces killed hundreds of civilians with chemical agents.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad denied accusations his government was behind the attacks, calling the charges an "insult to common sense".

On Monday UN inspectors arrived in the area near Damascus, where the alleged chemical weapons attack took place and started to collect samples from the site.

Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_08_27/Syrian-doctors-smuggle-to-Jordan-biomaterials-of-chemical-attack-s-victims-media-3449/

-- THE VOICE OF RUSSIA 2013-08-28

So World War 3 could be launched based upon the findings of “Syrian doctors “ who “secretly sent biological samples " as opposed to United Nations weapons inspectors because “The UN mission is aimed at determining if a chemical weapons attack actually took place, but will not investigate who was responsible for any attack.”

“ Curiouser and curiouser “ said Alice

[hanno]

Indeed. WMD's anyone?

[zydeco]

All I see are American aircraft carriers (what are there, four, there, now?), American aircraft from European bases, and some promises by the French and English to back them up. Sounds like an American operation in all essentials. Must be careful about how I say this, however, as I wouldn't want to be accused of an anti-American "rant" by some people. Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now let's add another to the list of American misadventures in the Middle East.

[phil2]

Only a fool will believe whatever comes out from the mouth of leaders of the us and britain. The initial report some months ago accused the western sponsored rebels of using Chen weapons, but that was quickly swept under the carpet following pressure from those looking for excuses to invade Syria and do what they did to Qadaffi to him.

[Scott]

All I see are American aircraft carriers (what are there, four, there, now?), American aircraft from European bases, and some promises by the French and English to back them up. Sounds like an American operation in all essentials. Must be careful about how I say this, however, as I wouldn't want to be accused of an anti-American "rant" by some people. Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now let's add another to the list of American misadventures in the Middle East.

Your diplomatic skills are noted, however, this topic is a little more American-centric than the one on the UN. It even references US Vice-President, Joe Biden.

[theblether]

No one ever believes these reports any more.

Thanks to Bush and Blair many of us lost faith in our governments.

The tragedy is that these reports may well be true, but we are still skeptical about them.

For the Brits in particular, Blair cannot be forgiven for lying to us with that Dossier downloaded from the Internet.

If they move this time, they had better, and I mean better, be right.

[hanno]

They also better had a strategy, in particular an exit strategy, this time round.

[chooka]

Geez, can't the U.S take a break from bombing people. Take a holiday America, put your feet up for a couple of months and chill out. You lost in Afganistan and the Taliban are still active and in control. When Australia takes over the presidency of the U.N Security in a couple of days I hope they have the balls to tell the U.S to back off and chill out and not let them bully Australia to get their way.

[Credo]

I don't have a problem with involvement in this little conflict if it has a goal. The goal should be to find and take out or neutralize those chemical weapons. Once done, they should be out of there. If the goal is punishment, then drop a few strategically placed bombs and be out of there.

Syria is not going to become a democracy and it is too fractured to be easily repaired by anyone.

[Publicus]

They also better had a strategy, in particular an exit strategy, this time round.

Agreed.

Obama's a prudent commander in chief of the military who is much more careful and considerate of U.S. military personnel and assets than Bush or Bush ever were, Reagan too.

The U.S. barely set foot on the ground in Libya and then was gone like the wind. I think that was a good exit strategy and the model to follow, although no U.S. ground forces will be used in Syria.

The U.S. population doesn't want another war and Obama knows that. Obama campaigned in 2008 to get out of Iraq etc. The U.S. isn't going to be participating in this for very long, that's for sure.

V.P Biden is no warhawk either.

[midas]

They also better had a strategy, in particular an exit strategy, this time round.

Agreed.

Obama's a prudent commander in chief of the military who is much more careful and considerate of U.S. military personnel and assets than Bush or Bush ever were, Reagan too.

The U.S. barely set foot on the ground in Libya and then was gone like the wind. I think that was a good exit strategy and the model to follow, although no U.S. ground forces will be used in Syria.

The U.S. population doesn't want another war and Obama knows that. Obama campaigned in 2008 to get out of Iraq etc. The U.S. isn't going to be participating in this for very long, that's for sure.

V.P Biden is no warhawk either.

And if Syria or Iran starts pounding away at Israel, what then for the USA?

[Rob8891]

Here we go again, throwing our boys into wars that aren't ours. But this time the XXXXwits in charge are going to tell our boys to go into Syria to protect the rebels who in this case include Hezbollah.

Duh.

[Jingthing]

And if Syria or Iran starts pounding away at Israel, what then for the USA?

Then there is a bigger war. What's different?

Anyway, Obama isn't W. Bush.

Bush wanted a war with Iraq even before 911. 911 was an excuse.

Obama has been doing all he can to avoid a new war. If anything, he is to be faulted for not taking action EARLIER in Syria.

I believe Biden.

[zydeco]

And if Syria or Iran starts pounding away at Israel, what then for the USA?

Then there is a bigger war. What's different?

Anyway, Obama isn't W. Bush.

Bush wanted a war with Iraq even before 911. 911 was an excuse.

Obama has been doing all he can to avoid a new war. If anything, he is to be faulted for not taking action EARLIER in Syria.

I believe Biden.

The only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn anything from history.

[Publicus]

They also better had a strategy, in particular an exit strategy, this time round.

Agreed.

Obama's a prudent commander in chief of the military who is much more careful and considerate of U.S. military personnel and assets than Bush or Bush ever were, Reagan too.

The U.S. barely set foot on the ground in Libya and then was gone like the wind. I think that was a good exit strategy and the model to follow, although no U.S. ground forces will be used in Syria.

The U.S. population doesn't want another war and Obama knows that. Obama campaigned in 2008 to get out of Iraq etc. The U.S. isn't going to be participating in this for very long, that's for sure.

V.P Biden is no warhawk either.

And if Syria or Iran starts pounding away at Israel, what then for the USA?

Here, that's a hypothetical.

For an actual analysis based on excellent intelligence and the judgement of the responsible professionals, you'd have to ask the National Security Council to include the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the State Department, the Department of Defense and of course the Israeli government.

I'd think if Western intelligence, military and government leaders thought your thought were a realistic possibility, we'd be looking at a completely different situation right now.

The modest size and strength of the force assembled in the eastern Mediterranean indicates that a wider ME war or bombardment is not expected. It is not a force large enough to deal with such a possibility occurring.

[Jingthing]

And if Syria or Iran starts pounding away at Israel, what then for the USA?

Then there is a bigger war. What's different?

Anyway, Obama isn't W. Bush.

Bush wanted a war with Iraq even before 911. 911 was an excuse.

Obama has been doing all he can to avoid a new war. If anything, he is to be faulted for not taking action EARLIER in Syria.

I believe Biden.

The only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn anything from history.

How true.

Vietnam isn't Syria.

Iraq isn't Syria.

Libya isn't Syria.

Syria is Syria.

[Chicog]

Here we go again, throwing our boys into wars that aren't ours. But this time the XXXXwits in charge are going to tell our boys to go into Syria to protect the rebels who in this case include Hezbollah.

Duh.

Hizbollah work WITH the regime, not against it.

[Chicog]

And if Syria or Iran starts pounding away at Israel, what then for the USA?

Then have a party in the street, because it will all be over very quickly.

[coma]

" No Doubt " ? I doubt that.

Assad would not use gas in such close proximity to UN inspection teams that were operating near where the alleged incident occurred. To think otherwise would be unwise. If it did happen then it would be more plausable that opposition groups seized the opportunity to conduct a cunning propaganda campaign. Either by stagging the attack or actually releasing gas themselves to discredit the government.

The US and its allies have form [ poor] with regards to presenting evidence [ false ] like this to the world community. For that reason I find it hard to believe thier version of events as to what is happening in Syria. Any foriegn aggression in Syria would be a terrible mistake. I would need alot more information and solid evidence from "neutra"l governments that Assad is responsible before ordering military action. Which is sure to meet strong resistance meaning more death and destruction.

[jmccarty]

Getting gassed sucks! Even mild gasses like CS Gas used in Basic Training in many armies totally disables you. If Sarin was used, all effected would have asphyxiated.

And if Sarin was used, production and stockpiling of sarin was outlawed by the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1993 where it is classified as a Schedule 1 substance.

Of interest, Syria is one of the 7 countries that was not party to this convention. Russia ratified this convention in 1997, so no Schedule 1 substance could have come from them.

Russia does however sell more weapons to Putin's old friend Assad, than any other country and Assad gives Russia access and control to Tartus Naval Base in Syria, there is also around 30,000 Russians married to Syrians and living there, and there is a Russian Orthodox Church interest in the Christian communities in Syria. And Assad supported Putin in the 10 year Chechnyan conflict.

Not pointing a finger, but Putin may have a lot to lose if Assad is ousted.

[lannarebirth]

And if Syria or Iran starts pounding away at Israel, what then for the USA?

Then there is a bigger war. What's different?

Anyway, Obama isn't W. Bush.

Bush wanted a war with Iraq even before 911. 911 was an excuse.

Obama has been doing all he can to avoid a new war. If anything, he is to be faulted for not taking action EARLIER in Syria.

I believe Biden.

The only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn anything from history.

How true.

Vietnam isn't Syria.

Iraq isn't Syria.

Libya isn't Syria.

Syria is Syria.

Although there IS a common thread. Massive loss of life and failure to achieve "stated" objectives. I put "stated" in quotes because the most plausible explanation for this string of failures is that failure was the objective. That, and spending a whole lot of money.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[chuckd]

"the President has no constitutional authority...to take this nation to war against a country of 70 million people unless we're attacked or unless there is proof we are about to be attacked. And if he does, if he does, I would move to impeach him. The House obviously has to do that but I would lead an effort to impeach him."

J. Biden, 2007

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/08/27/Video-Biden-Will-Impeach-Bush-if-He-Attacks-Iran-Without-Congressional-Authority

[Commander Tamson]

I don't have a problem with involvement in this little conflict if it has a goal. The goal should be to find and take out or neutralize those chemical weapons. Once done, they should be out of there. If the goal is punishment, then drop a few strategically placed bombs and be out of there.

Syria is not going to become a democracy and it is too fractured to be easily repaired by anyone.

No Islamic state is ever going to become a democracy!! Have we in the west not learnt that simple fact yet? Any intervention by the West simply opens a route for the radicals to exploit. The Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns have almost bankrupted the USA & the UK and caused the death and/or maiming of so many of their young soldiers. Chem weapons or not, the West has to stay out of this one!

[Credo]

"the President has no constitutional authority...to take this nation to war against a country of 70 million people unless we're attacked or unless there is proof we are about to be attacked. And if he does, if he does, I would move to impeach him. The House obviously has to do that but I would lead an effort to impeach him."

J. Biden, 2007

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/08/27/Video-Biden-Will-Impeach-Bush-if-He-Attacks-Iran-Without-Congressional-Authority

Ah, but he did attack and he wasn't impeached, so the precedent has been set.

[jmccarty]

I don't have a problem with involvement in this little conflict if it has a goal. The goal should be to find and take out or neutralize those chemical weapons. Once done, they should be out of there. If the goal is punishment, then drop a few strategically placed bombs and be out of there.

Syria is not going to become a democracy and it is too fractured to be easily repaired by anyone.

No Islamic state is ever going to become a democracy!! Have we in the west not learnt that simple fact yet? Any intervention by the West simply opens a route for the radicals to exploit. The Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns have almost bankrupted the USA & the UK and caused the death and/or maiming of so many of their young soldiers. Chem weapons or not, the West has to stay out of this one!

What about Indonesia and Malaysia? Technically they are democratic and Indonesia is the world's most populous muslim country.