Thai officials to rein in illegal van after numerous crashes

[maximillian]

Sorry friends, don't mean to be a Thai basher. Infact, generally I like Thais much better than my fellow German countrymen. But when it comes to driving my impressions are changing. In Thailand I am riding motorbikes and cars, never had an accident in 46 years of international driving. Yet, sometimes I am afraid of crazy drivers of all kind of vehicles here. Seems like Thais hardly care about their own safety, far less they care of the safety of others.

Don't want to complain too much, though. Compared to traffic in India, Pakistan, Indonesia, the Philippines, the Arab countries, African countries and Latin America, Thai traffic is kind of "civilized". Buh...

[farangbanok]

........ Is there a Thai word for "proactive"?

Yes - errm, well 3 words actually - ****Thai language removed**** - mai penh rai

Edited August 29, 2013 by metisdead
This is an English language forum, English is the only acceptable language, except in the Thai language forum where Thai language is allowed.

[tingtongteesood]

Vans should be done away with completely and the busses improved.

[Torrens54]

How would we know if a van is illegal before we climb onboard?

If the number plate is white with black letters it's registered as a private vehicle, so illegal.

Ah, thanks AyG for that info.

[Torrens54]

Speaking of Van Drivers, legal or otherwise, is there a willingness amongst the constabulary to do anything about the lunatics who drive the Grey "Tour Vans" and indeed the Red Mini Bus Drivers in Chiang Mai?

These drivers seem to have the impression that they own the entire road.

They pull out in front of traffic (more often than not, without indicating their intentions) they hit the breaks at a moments notice if they even think there may be a potential passenger on the curb.

If you take a look at their "vacant" faces, there appears to be no life and you have to wonder what drug/s they are using, their eyes never seem to move and they just have a dazed stare as they weave in and out of traffic with not a care for anyone else on the roads.

[tingtongteesood]

Sorry friends, don't mean to be a Thai basher. Infact, generally I like Thais much better than my fellow German countrymen. But when it comes to driving my impressions are changing. In Thailand I am riding motorbikes and cars, never had an accident in 46 years of international driving. Yet, sometimes I am afraid of crazy drivers of all kind of vehicles here. Seems like Thais hardly care about their own safety, far less they care of the safety of others.

Don't want to complain too much, though. Compared to traffic in India, Pakistan, Indonesia, the Philippines, the Arab countries, African countries and Latin America, Thai traffic is kind of "civilized". Buh...

This is not a Thai bashing post, this is fact. Please do not confuse them.

It's a mix of superstition and dumb assedness. Buddhists believe in 'fate', they don't care in the least about personal responsibility. They drive really badly and believe that the amulet round their neck will protect them from all harm, if someone else gets killed in the process then that's their fault for not paying for adequaate magic to protect them. They believe that their death is fated and if it happens then it was supposed to happen. So Thai's never think about safety because the magic will save them and if it doesn't then they were supposed to die at that moment anyway. Retarded yes, but centuries of being spoonfed superstitious bullshit creates bad habits that are hard to break.

[spermwhale]

And how bout teaching them not to drive on the shoulders of the road -- just exactly what happened when this scumbag crashed into the truck parked there.

[robertson468]

All drivers of passenger vehicles should first have to attend a special driving course, which they need to pass at the end. They should then be issued with a Passenger Service Vehicle Licence (PSV). In addition, the vehicles they use should be tested annually for roadworthyness and should also display a large Vehicle PSV licence in the windscreen. It's not exactly rocket science folks and would be of greater benefit than some of the Government's questionable schemes. Oh, forgot it won't win any votes, silly me .

[AyG]

This is not a Thai bashing post, this is fact. Please do not confuse them.

It's a mix of superstition and dumb assedness. Buddhists believe in 'fate', they don't care in the least about personal responsibility. They drive really badly and believe that the amulet round their neck will protect them from all harm, if someone else gets killed in the process then that's their fault for not paying for adequaate magic to protect them. They believe that their death is fated and if it happens then it was supposed to happen. So Thai's never think about safety because the magic will save them and if it doesn't then they were supposed to die at that moment anyway. Retarded yes, but centuries of being spoonfed superstitious bullshit creates bad habits that are hard to break.

It may not be a Thai-bashing post, but it is wildly inaccurate.

Buddhists do not believe in "fate". They believe in kam (or "karma" as it's better known in the west). The believe is that future lives will be shaped by the actions we do in this life. That's not the same as believing in fate. Each person is inherently responsible for their actions in this life and should strive to live a good life, and the Buddhist definition of "good" includes abstaining from taking life.

The belief in the power of amulets is nothing to do with Buddhist teaching. And only a very small proportion of Thai people wears them anyway.

There's no belief that death is fated, or that it was supposed to happen. There's a traditional Buddhist teaching parable about a monk who accidentally sat on a baby and killed it. The moral is that the monk lacked mindfulness (i.e. acute awareness of what he was doing). In no way was the baby's death "fated" - it was the monk's fault.

And as for being "spoonfed", Buddhism teaches that one should question everything that one is taught, and only accept that which one believes is true.

Edited August 29, 2013 by AyG

[chiang mai]

All drivers of passenger vehicles should first have to attend a special driving course, which they need to pass at the end. They should then be issued with a Passenger Service Vehicle Licence (PSV). In addition, the vehicles they use should be tested annually for roadworthyness and should also display a large Vehicle PSV licence in the windscreen. It's not exactly rocket science folks and would be of greater benefit than some of the Government's questionable schemes. Oh, forgot it won't win any votes, silly me .

All the things you mention already happen, a test is required for drivers license and vehicles over 5 years old are required to be tested. The problem is that none of the testing is stringent enough and there is no enforcement.

[RogueLeader]

How would we know if a van is illegal before we climb onboard?

My problem is the legal ones are just as bad as the illegal ones, I do not understand why they only concentrate on the illegal ones.

Exactly

I for the life of me can not figure out how a license is going to prevent an accident. Where I come from they had a mandatory vehicular check also the drivers had to pass a certain test to drive a public vehicle.

Why people think that just getting a license will solve the problem is beyond my scope of comprehension. The vehicles should be subject to minimum standards and checked every year and the drivers should be made to pass more stringent tests.

Then and only then you will see a reduction in the accidents. just licensing them does nothing except provide more money to the government.

I would not be one bit surprised if an investigation showed some not all unlicensed vans and drivers to be the safer choice. The reason we here so much about the unlicensed ones is because these are English based sources of information we get it from and to them a license has a different meaning than in Thailand.

When the Government or one of its ministries comment that they are looking into the policies of licensing of mini busses. I think the majority will agree with me on the following;

1. Minibuses should be limited in public service to a particular, route, distance and speed. It's no point investing in 10 more air bags or if the driver should have a circus license or even speaks the good ingalisch!

2. Comfort is good, but priority is safety and instead of making some lame circus loop to increase fares on this licenses. It should increase the insurance on each passenger and the compensation to families in the case of death.

3. Public transport should be properly defined. Size of bus, routes, stops, securities in weight, storage, and maintainence!,,

4. Personalized vehicles such as ferraris and those who think they are land pilots should be grounded, jailed or license confiscated.

5.install in all public transport busses speed records and driving meters to control the drivers rest periods. Alcohol tests prior to long journeys and spot tests on the way. A second driver and route reporting of time,

Thailand, wake up you are no longer ignorant to common sense.

Money can not substitute stupidity, even though it probably paid off in the past on compassion or religious grounds!

And the price of a 3-hour minibus ride will rocket from 130 baht to about 500 baht. Thailand is not Switzerland. If all of these safety initiatives are implemented, the cost of living and visiting will rise dramatically and people will go to Indonesia or Cambodia instead.

I'm not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing, just that this is the reason that I can go to Chiang Mai on a first class train for a price that wouldn't get me a taxi home from the train station in the UK. Thais know this. If transport, food and accommodation get significantly more expensive, people will go elsewhere.

Edited August 29, 2013 by RogueLeader

[sirchai]

The license will come with stringent safety measures, such as a course on public safety for the vans′ staff and a bi-annual vehicle check-up, according to Mr. Jiruth

And we'll continue to take 200 baht from people who haven't got a drivers' license.

I'm just wondering why people in more developed countries who want to drive a cab, or a van with many people in have to do various psychological and physical tests?

Isn't there a similarity to the educational system? People are acting like they would do something they can't do.-

[sirchai]

In all honesty it's not having or not having a "licence" that has any effect, the Thai driving licence tests parking and driving slowly around a parking lot. It is the amount of time that a van driver is spending behind the wheel in a sleep deprived state doped to the eyeballs of Red-Bull etc.

Having insurance and a licence will NOT STOP these crashes where poor driver judgement is the cause.

A driver might only drive for a few hours but if he was on the piss the night before or taking recreational dope then an accident can happen at any time. The drivers should be taught and threatened with grief if they cause an accident related to stuff they have been warned about.

Or hire "real drivers" like us.-

[YeaBiGgiEs]

I just don't see the logic. "Complying" with any laws is what these "ghost" minivan owners are doing in the first place. So you can sit down and create all the new policies and courses all you want and waste more taxpayer money. You are acting "REACTIVELY" instead of being pro-active. How about initiate a "1 STOP" law which allows the Thai Government to confiscate ANY vehicle operating as a business, serving the public without proper credentials and fines. Selling the vehicles at auction, depositing all proceeds to a fund for disbursement and aid to families and victims. Fear of a vehicle being immediately confiscated without proper permits will decrease these "ghost" vans from operating substantially.

[cup-O-coffee]

Shouldn't all drivers already be receiving training and regular vehicle inspections anyway? How about having a licence number displayed on the vehicle and drivers display an identification card proving that they are licenced to operate. The public only have the word of the driver.

Because like everything else the Thais do, no one would qualify, and eventually the process would be overwhelmed by feeble minded, corrupt imbeciles; who, in turn, would make this heretofore good suggestion into a mockery.

And even if someone did manage to qualify, they would more than likely not be guaranteed a job as they would not be qualified to pass the FBI (Friends, brothers and in-Laws) test.

So, as good as your suggestion is, I cannot think of anything whereby logic such as this could possibly have a snowball's chance to exist in this Kingdom.

In short, mate... you can't fix stupid!

[peecee]

Shouldn't all drivers already be receiving training and regular vehicle inspections anyway? How about having a licence number displayed on the vehicle and drivers display an identification card proving that they are licenced to operate. The public only have the word of the driver.

Starting with a real driving test would be a big plus. I went to a test centre; drive once around without going on a public road and reverse into a bay. Result 1 driving licence to a totally experienced motorist in a lethal weapon. Unbelievable!

[Jim walker]

Officials To Rein In Illegal Van After Numerous Crashes and pigs might fly to catch the speeding reckless van drivers and give them a hefty 200 Baht fine.

[bumpkin]

Presumably, "passengers" use these vehicles because they are cheaper than the alternative. I would guess, the majority of "passengers" are fully aware they are not licenced, but accept the risk. The Laws of Economics often trump the Laws of Discretion and Better Judgement. The Laws of the Road feature nowhere in this decision, either by driver or passenger.

[lee b]

So the legal vans are safe are they?

[BigC]

Shouldn't all drivers already be receiving training and regular vehicle inspections anyway? How about having a licence number displayed on the vehicle and drivers display an identification card proving that they are licenced to operate. The public only have the word of the driver.

They would need a driving licence first lol

[Udox]

There are perfectly adequate laws and rules in effect in this country which could almost completely eradicate bad driving, stupid drivers and unsafe vehicles.

The problem is - nobody chooses to enforce these rules - especially those who are paid to do just that.

While sgt-major somchai and his superiors are more concerned in their private bank balances than the safety and welfare of Joe Public - there is no hope.

Neither you, or I or anyone who has the power/ability to do so, is going to change anything whilst the baht is more important than life.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Udox

[BwindiBoy]

Thailand has the ability to enforce road safety, especially on public service vehicles. I can't think of anywhere with more police check points. They have the way to do it, but I fear this is hot air and bluster.

No one really cares enough to make a difference, and that's a tragic reflection on the government and Thai society.

For once, I actually have to agree with the Blethered One. You could extend his words and get the police to pull in all minivans at the numerous weighbridges all over the country to check out legitimacy. However, I fear the governments words are purely lip service to appease the traveling masses. Trouble is, no-one believes them after so many unfulfilled previous promises.

For once? He consistently makes more sense than any other poster, presenting a logic, perceptive view.

[monkey4u]

PLEASE !!

How many times will we hear there is to be a crack down on mini buses before something is done

Seeing is believing

On another transport note

What has happened up north

ONE whole week and the train hasnt fallen off the tracks Its a miracle

[Tchooptip]

How would we know if a van is illegal before we climb onboard?

If the number plate is white with black letters it's registered as a private vehicle, so illegal.

Vans legally licensed to carry fare paying passengers carry a yellow plate. The van in the news story here is registered as a private van, hence, blue plate, thus illegal..

Too many of these types are running around picking up passengers. They need to crack down on more of these vans before more of these vans crack up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Thailand

Thank you for the link I am a little less ignorant than yesterday

[gemini81]

PLEASE !!

How many times will we hear there is to be a crack down on mini buses before something is done

Seeing is believing

On another transport note

What has happened up north

ONE whole week and the train hasnt fallen off the tracks Its a miracle

But really, the more you hear about it the less you believe it.

The hub of Big talkers-little do'ers

[robblok]

Thing is not to long ago they said something about speed limiters in vans and really checking them on speeding.. it never happened.

[Sheryl]

Presumably, "passengers" use these vehicles because they are cheaper than the alternative. I would guess, the majority of "passengers" are fully aware they are not licenced, but accept the risk. The Laws of Economics often trump the Laws of Discretion and Better Judgement. The Laws of the Road feature nowhere in this decision, either by driver or passenger.

I don't think that is at all it. Rather, they run more convenient routes. In fact, take away the minvans (most of which I would guess to be unlicensed) and inter-provincial public transport in Thailand becomes quite limited and cumbersome to use indeed.

In this instance, the van runs from Prachinburi town through back roads to near the airport (passing the Lat Krabang air-rail link station) onto the motorway to Victory Monument. The only alternatives are a very infrequent slow 3rd class train that gets you into Makkasan, or a bus that goes to Mor Chit, which means most people would then have to take a a combo of taxi+ BTS or multiple buses to then get on to their destination.

Most of the inter-provincial minivans go to the Victory Monument area where one can easily connect to just about anywhere.

I take this van from time to time and my niece takes it regularly, since she needs to connect at Victory Monument. Would gladly pay considerably more for vans with seat belts..but there aren't any. And I think all passengers would rather drivers were careful.

[chiang mai]

Thing is not to long ago they said something about speed limiters in vans and really checking them on speeding.. it never happened.

They thought they said judgement limiters and upon checking, found there was no need!

[Ulic]

I don't think it makes much difference whether the van is legal or not. They all tend to be poorly maintained and the

drivers poorly trained. In the west we tend to start driving at 16. Take lessons to qualify for insurance discounts (Canada)

and licence upgrades for commercial transportation. Here is a bike culture not car culture. It seams like most drivers get

there license a couple of weeks before they start driving commercially. At least for the van drivers. They seem to never

to drive for the conditions. Slow down when is is wet going around corners or down hills. Heaven forbid they were ever

to drive on snow or ice.