Singapore urged to scrap caning after graffiti sentencing

[webfact]

Singapore urged to scrap caning after graffiti sentencing

NEW YORK: -- Singapore was Thursday urged to scrap corporal punishment after a security guard was sentenced to three months in jail and three strokes of the cane for spray-painting the word "Democracy" on a war memorial.

Mohamad Khalid Mohamad Yusop, 33, was sentenced on Monday after pleading to guilty to vandalism in a rare case of public dissent in the tightly controlled city-state.

He sprayed "Democracy" and a large "X" on the Cenotaph memorial, which commemorates Singapore's dead in the two world wars.

"Mohamad Yusop exercised his right to free speech and expressed his political views about the failings of Singapore democracy, but writing on a public monument was the wrong place to share those opinions," said Phil Robertson, deputy director of Human Rights Watch's Asia division.

Full story: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_08_29/Singapore-urged-to-scrap-caning-after-graffiti-sentencing-9992/

-- THE VOICE OF RUSSIA 2013-08-29

[uty6543]

I am not concerned about his desire for "Democracy" but for defacing a war memorial i think only 3 strokes is a light sentence,

[laurentbkk]

Corporal punishment is barbaric , Singapore which want to show to the world how modern they are is making a stupid mistake . I disagree of course with this guy and his Democracy but I think there are other kind of punishment . this is not middle age anymore.

[uty6543]

Corporal punishment is barbaric , Singapore which want to show to the world how modern they are is making a stupid mistake . I disagree of course with this guy and his Democracy but I think there are other kind of punishment . this is not middle age anymore.

I agree corporal punishment is a severe punishment but justified in this case. Respect for those who have given their life is more important in my book.

Do I understand you correctly you disagree with Democracy

[gl555]

They cane people when they vandalise anything, not just the war memorials. I think corporal punishment for a non violent crime like vandalism is over the top. But then, that's Singapore for you.

Corporal punishment is barbaric , Singapore which want to show to the world how modern they are is making a stupid mistake . I disagree of course with this guy and his Democracy but I think there are other kind of punishment . this is not middle age anymore.

I agree corporal punishment is a severe punishment but justified in this case. Respect for those who have given their life is more important in my book.

Do I understand you correctly you disagree with Democracy

[Pdaz]

Having lived in Singapore for 10 years I can only say their methods work. Pretty sure a lot of the anti-social troubles in Western countries could be solved with more corporal punishment.

Their country, their rules. Their citizens seem happy with it.. That is democracy in action.

[beenhere2long]

well done Singapore,,The UK should bring back the birch....ASBO'S now they do not work..but a few smacks across a bear bottom in public..few would re offend..

[somdej]

well done Singapore,,The UK should bring back the birch....ASBO'S now they do not work..but a few smacks across a bear bottom in public..few would re offend..

Couldn't agree with you more !! Well said !!!

[Torrens54]

I suggest that Phil Robertson from whatever self proclaimed "Human Rights" rag-tag bag of clowns he belongs, should mind his own business.

Who is he to try and tell Singapore what to do with Graffiti-spraying Scum? The guy in question defaced a War Memorial and as far as I'm concerned, he got off light.

Some years ago in Singapore they caned a Teenage Vandal, an American who was the son of some reasonably high profile ex-pat. The kid had plastered his Graffiti crap over a car, maybe a couple of cars. There was much screaming from the likes of this Phil Robertson character at the time, but do you know what?

As far as I'm aware, the Culprit never offended again. Yes, bring it on in Australia, New Zealand, America, the UK or any other place where these Scum Bags are defacing people's property and getting away with it at the moment.

Top Marks to Singapore and I hope this clown will also be left with a few Cane Marks on his backside to help him remember to behave in future.

Perhaps the so-called "Human Rights" Gentleman should be calling for the Rights of people to NOT have to put up with this sort of behavior.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Torrens54

[Kananga]

Having lived in Singapore for 10 years I can only say their methods work. Pretty sure a lot of the anti-social troubles in Western countries could be solved with more corporal punishment.

Their country, their rules. Their citizens seem happy with it.. That is democracy in action.

Well they may agree with it, but its hardly democracy. Citizens turn out in force in Saudi to watch poor people getting their hands cut off after stealing some food to feed their starving kids. Hardly democracy in action.

Anyway, with a little critical thought applied to this situation instead of immediately screeching for botty blood you may draw the conclusion that the war memorial was chosen as the people who died for Singapore did so for its freedom against dictatorship and forced rule, which the current and only government since its independence pisses all over with its flagrant abuse of power when it comes to allowing a level political playing field. For many people that is a massive insult to the sacrifices of those who died for their country fighting for freedom from oppression.

Stifling opposition by using the judiciary to bankrupt political opponents on account of trumped up defamation suits, the mainstream media being little more than a state controlled mouthpiece and high level nepotism is hardly democracy in action.

I also lived in Singapore for many years and the discontent among the population towards the government was very common. When the old man finally snuffs it you will see a lot of changes there.

[lee b]

I agree with them well done !

[jpduggan]

Why don't they just mind their own business!

[Kananga]

I suggest that Phil Robertson from whatever self proclaimed "Human Rights" rag-tag bag of clowns he belongs, should mind his own business.

Who is he to try and tell Singapore what to do with Graffiti-spraying Scum? The guy in question defaced a War Memorial and as far as I'm concerned, he got off light.

Some years ago in Singapore they caned a Teenage Vandal, an American who was the son of some reasonably high profile ex-pat. The kid had plastered his Graffiti crap over a car, maybe a couple of cars. There was much screaming from the likes of this Phil Robertson character at the time, but do you know what?

As far as I'm aware, the Culprit never offended again. Yes, bring it on in Australia, New Zealand, America, the UK or any other place where these Scum Bags are defacing people's property and getting away with it at the moment.

Top Marks to Singapore and I hope this clown will also be left with a few Cane Marks on his backside to help him remember to behave in future.

Perhaps the so-called "Human Rights" Gentleman should be calling for the Rights of people to NOT have to put up with this sort of behavior.

This is the trouble when you hear half stories and then make a bit up yourself to sensationalise it. Let me explain what actually happened.

The boy in question was Michael Fay. His father worked for Fed Ex.

There was another kid Michael knew called Shiu Chi Ho, a Hong Kong National. Shiu Chi got caught driving his parents car around town and was taken to the police station as a result. When he was there the police started asking him questions about the recent spates of vandalism that had been happening. So to get himself off the hook he wrote down a list of peoples names. 5 names in total including Michaels.

The police then went to the Singapore American school and arrested the five boys.

Michael had stolen a few construction signs which the police found, which he immediately admitted to.

Michael was then interrogated for 9 days without bail before finally signing a forced confession that he was responsible for the vandalism.

He spent over 80 days in jail in total and received four strokes of the cane.

So lets sum up the FACTS.

Firstly he was never caught vandalising anything. Secondly the only witness to put him in the frame was a kid who had been caught driving his parents car around Singapore at 3am and was looking for leverage to get out of the current trouble he was in. The police found no evidence of Michael causing vandalism. The police kept him in jail for 9 days before forcing a confession out of him as he could not take any more and according him him they were threatening physical violence if he didnt confess.

Now I'm not saying stealing a few road signs doesnt deserve to go unpunished (even when you are just a teenager), but to lock a boy up for over a week without charge or evidence to the crime they forced him to confess to on the sole account of a juvenile that was being held for another charge and then be sentenced to physical punishment and another 4 months in jail is barbaric. Its the very reason that we have democracy so the state can be held accountable when they overstep the boundaries of acceptable moral behaviour, policing methods, judicial boundaries and over the top punishment.

Everyone who has actually researched this case properly has automatically drawn the only logical conclusion that as they had not caught the real culprit they used Michael as a warning to them what would happen if they continued and got caught.

[Suradit69]

well done Singapore,,The UK should bring back the birch....ASBO'S now they do not work..but a few smacks across a bear bottom in public..few would re offend..

"across a bear bottom"

Speaking of bears' bottoms, it's interesting the report comes from The Voice of Russia, a country so well known for its selective freedoms.

[AlexDorneles]

How ironic a muslin advocating for "democracy". They should have this law in every country. Great about Singapore is that anyone can go and watch it.

[Kananga]

How ironic a muslin advocating for "democracy". They should have this law in every country. Great about Singapore is that anyone can go and watch it.

Can go watch what?

[lifeincnx]

He got off easy. There a more than a few Muslim countries that would cut off his right hand for this offense.

[cacruden]

He knew (or should have known) the punishment for his actions.... If you can't do the punishment, don't do the crime. Think they should do that with litterers in my home country as well as those that vandalize.... it might get through to them quicker than a small fine.....

Edited August 29, 2013 by cacruden

[Kananga]

He knew (or should have known) the punishment for his actions.... If you can't do the punishment, don't do the crime. Think they should do that with litterers in my home country as well as those that vandalize.... it might get through to them quicker than a small fine.....

I don't believe he has said he can't do the punishment.

What the singapore government fail to realise time and time again is that these over the top punishments just end up backfiring on them when it comes to being part of the international community. Alan Shadrake was a prime example of this. The publicity he got after the hilariously over the top reaction to his book made him a best seller on Amazon and highlighted the judicial failings and wrong doings of the government there to a far far wider audience.

[uty6543]

Having lived in Singapore for 10 years I can only say their methods work. Pretty sure a lot of the anti-social troubles in Western countries could be solved with more corporal punishment.

Their country, their rules. Their citizens seem happy with it.. That is democracy in action.

Well they may agree with it, but its hardly democracy. Citizens turn out in force in Saudi to watch poor people getting their hands cut off after stealing some food to feed their starving kids. Hardly democracy in action.

Anyway, with a little critical thought applied to this situation instead of immediately screeching for botty blood you may draw the conclusion that the war memorial was chosen as the people who died for Singapore did so for its freedom against dictatorship and forced rule, which the current and only government since its independence pisses all over with its flagrant abuse of power when it comes to allowing a level political playing field. For many people that is a massive insult to the sacrifices of those who died for their country fighting for freedom from oppression.

Stifling opposition by using the judiciary to bankrupt political opponents on account of trumped up defamation suits, the mainstream media being little more than a state controlled mouthpiece and high level nepotism is hardly democracy in action.

I also lived in Singapore for many years and the discontent among the population towards the government was very common. When the old man finally snuffs it you will see a lot of changes there.

Well you manage to use some nice big words in there but what a load of CR*P. Do you honestly believe you are the only capable of applying a little critical thought.

[harrry]

I wonder what the voice of Russia said about the girls who got caught singing anti government songs in the church there. I do not think they complained about the sentance they got and they did not deface anything.

[ongchart]

This is the trouble when you hear half stories and then make a bit up yourself to sensationalise it. Let me explain what actually happened.

Everyone who has actually researched this case properly has automatically drawn the only logical conclusion that as they had not caught the real culprit they used Michael as a warning to them what would happen if they continued and got caught.

Interesting 'insight' into what 'actually' happened. I guess the 'research' was from what Michael Fay himself told the outside world? How independent is that? Anyway, lets not debate that.

And what happened to Michael after he returned to the US?

He was arrested for beating up his father, for drug abuse, and was in rehab. If he had stayed in an environment like Singapore's, he would have thought very hard before misbehaving like he did shortly after returning to the US.

[Kananga]

This is the trouble when you hear half stories and then make a bit up yourself to sensationalise it. Let me explain what actually happened.

Everyone who has actually researched this case properly has automatically drawn the only logical conclusion that as they had not caught the real culprit they used Michael as a warning to them what would happen if they continued and got caught.

Interesting 'insight' into what 'actually' happened. I guess the 'research' was from what Michael Fay himself told the outside world? How independent is that? Anyway, lets not debate that.

And what happened to Michael after he returned to the US?

He was arrested for beating up his father, for drug abuse, and was in rehab. If he had stayed in an environment like Singapore's, he would have thought very hard before misbehaving like he did shortly after returning to the US.

Yes, lets debate the facts. The fact he wasnt caught in the act of vandalism, that the police only got his name from a crime causing juvenile and there was no evidence to link him to the crimes is not 'research', they are the facts surrounding the case. If you want to believe otherwise thats your right, but arguing with facts just makes you look like someone who can't accept the truth.

If you want to look at 'research' there is plenty of research to suggest that subjecting people, let alone teenagers to cruel, painful physical punishment and incarceration can lead to behavioral issues. If he hadnt been coerced into signing a confession for a crime there was absolutely no evidence to link him to (which is a fact by the way) then he wouldnt have been subjected to the punishment and the potential behavioral issues that came as a result of it.

Therefore it is an entirely plausible explanation that the violence towards his father and drug abuse is a direct result of being subjected to punishment there was no evidence to link him to.

But lets not let those little details get in the way of a good story shall we?

[ongchart]

And now your 'research' has led you to conclude that Michael Fay's misdemeanor after he returned to the US was a result of his treatment by the authorities? Hmm.. Interesting...I am guessing you know him personally and that he was a very good boy before he stole all those street signs.

[Thai at Heart]

Corporal punishment is barbaric , Singapore which want to show to the world how modern they are is making a stupid mistake . I disagree of course with this guy and his Democracy but I think there are other kind of punishment . this is not middle age anymore.

I agree corporal punishment is a severe punishment but justified in this case. Respect for those who have given their life is more important in my book.

Do I understand you correctly you disagree with Democracy

Well, he could be made to scrub it off with his bare fingers I guess.

People who deface war memorials really don't get too much sympathy from me.

[uty6543]

I suggest that Phil Robertson from whatever self proclaimed "Human Rights" rag-tag bag of clowns he belongs, should mind his own business.

Who is he to try and tell Singapore what to do with Graffiti-spraying Scum? The guy in question defaced a War Memorial and as far as I'm concerned, he got off light.

Some years ago in Singapore they caned a Teenage Vandal, an American who was the son of some reasonably high profile ex-pat. The kid had plastered his Graffiti crap over a car, maybe a couple of cars. There was much screaming from the likes of this Phil Robertson character at the time, but do you know what?

As far as I'm aware, the Culprit never offended again. Yes, bring it on in Australia, New Zealand, America, the UK or any other place where these Scum Bags are defacing people's property and getting away with it at the moment.

Top Marks to Singapore and I hope this clown will also be left with a few Cane Marks on his backside to help him remember to behave in future.

Perhaps the so-called "Human Rights" Gentleman should be calling for the Rights of people to NOT have to put up with this sort of behavior.

This is the trouble when you hear half stories and then make a bit up yourself to sensationalise it. Let me explain what actually happened.

The boy in question was Michael Fay. His father worked for Fed Ex.

There was another kid Michael knew called Shiu Chi Ho, a Hong Kong National. Shiu Chi got caught driving his parents car around town and was taken to the police station as a result. When he was there the police started asking him questions about the recent spates of vandalism that had been happening. So to get himself off the hook he wrote down a list of peoples names. 5 names in total including Michaels.

The police then went to the Singapore American school and arrested the five boys.

Michael had stolen a few construction signs which the police found, which he immediately admitted to.

Michael was then interrogated for 9 days without bail before finally signing a forced confession that he was responsible for the vandalism.

He spent over 80 days in jail in total and received four strokes of the cane.

So lets sum up the FACTS.

Firstly he was never caught vandalising anything. Secondly the only witness to put him in the frame was a kid who had been caught driving his parents car around Singapore at 3am and was looking for leverage to get out of the current trouble he was in. The police found no evidence of Michael causing vandalism. The police kept him in jail for 9 days before forcing a confession out of him as he could not take any more and according him him they were threatening physical violence if he didnt confess.

Now I'm not saying stealing a few road signs doesnt deserve to go unpunished (even when you are just a teenager), but to lock a boy up for over a week without charge or evidence to the crime they forced him to confess to on the sole account of a juvenile that was being held for another charge and then be sentenced to physical punishment and another 4 months in jail is barbaric. Its the very reason that we have democracy so the state can be held accountable when they overstep the boundaries of acceptable moral behaviour, policing methods, judicial boundaries and over the top punishment.

Everyone who has actually researched this case properly has automatically drawn the only logical conclusion that as they had not caught the real culprit they used Michael as a warning to them what would happen if they continued and got caught.

Here's a bit you chose to leave out. "The Singapore Embassy received "a flood of letters" from Americans strongly supporting Fay's punishment, and some polls showed a majority of Americans favored it" So (in your opinion) the majority are not capable of critical thinking. Well I'm with the majority.

[uty6543]

This is the trouble when you hear half stories and then make a bit up yourself to sensationalise it. Let me explain what actually happened.

Everyone who has actually researched this case properly has automatically drawn the only logical conclusion that as they had not caught the real culprit they used Michael as a warning to them what would happen if they continued and got caught.

Interesting 'insight' into what 'actually' happened. I guess the 'research' was from what Michael Fay himself told the outside world? How independent is that? Anyway, lets not debate that.

And what happened to Michael after he returned to the US?

He was arrested for beating up his father, for drug abuse, and was in rehab. If he had stayed in an environment like Singapore's, he would have thought very hard before misbehaving like he did shortly after returning to the US.

Yes, lets debate the facts. The fact he wasnt caught in the act of vandalism, that the police only got his name from a crime causing juvenile and there was no evidence to link him to the crimes is not 'research', they are the facts surrounding the case. If you want to believe otherwise thats your right, but arguing with facts just makes you look like someone who can't accept the truth.

If you want to look at 'research' there is plenty of research to suggest that subjecting people, let alone teenagers to cruel, painful physical punishment and incarceration can lead to behavioral issues. If he hadnt been coerced into signing a confession for a crime there was absolutely no evidence to link him to (which is a fact by the way) then he wouldnt have been subjected to the punishment and the potential behavioral issues that came as a result of it.

Therefore it is an entirely plausible explanation that the violence towards his father and drug abuse is a direct result of being subjected to punishment there was no evidence to link him to.

But lets not let those little details get in the way of a good story shall we?

The Michael Fay case happened in 1994 not worth debating any more

[tonypace02]

Let's see: Time in prison with a criminal record, the cost of lawyers and having to go through a trial versus three lashes across the bum and home in time for dinner on a very soft pillow. I choose three of the best and a terse, "Let that be a lesson to you." Prison is far more barbarian.

[Kananga]

I suggest that Phil Robertson from whatever self proclaimed "Human Rights" rag-tag bag of clowns he belongs, should mind his own business.

Who is he to try and tell Singapore what to do with Graffiti-spraying Scum? The guy in question defaced a War Memorial and as far as I'm concerned, he got off light.

Some years ago in Singapore they caned a Teenage Vandal, an American who was the son of some reasonably high profile ex-pat. The kid had plastered his Graffiti crap over a car, maybe a couple of cars. There was much screaming from the likes of this Phil Robertson character at the time, but do you know what?

As far as I'm aware, the Culprit never offended again. Yes, bring it on in Australia, New Zealand, America, the UK or any other place where these Scum Bags are defacing people's property and getting away with it at the moment.

Top Marks to Singapore and I hope this clown will also be left with a few Cane Marks on his backside to help him remember to behave in future.

Perhaps the so-called "Human Rights" Gentleman should be calling for the Rights of people to NOT have to put up with this sort of behavior.

This is the trouble when you hear half stories and then make a bit up yourself to sensationalise it. Let me explain what actually happened.

The boy in question was Michael Fay. His father worked for Fed Ex.

There was another kid Michael knew called Shiu Chi Ho, a Hong Kong National. Shiu Chi got caught driving his parents car around town and was taken to the police station as a result. When he was there the police started asking him questions about the recent spates of vandalism that had been happening. So to get himself off the hook he wrote down a list of peoples names. 5 names in total including Michaels.

The police then went to the Singapore American school and arrested the five boys.

Michael had stolen a few construction signs which the police found, which he immediately admitted to.

Michael was then interrogated for 9 days without bail before finally signing a forced confession that he was responsible for the vandalism.

He spent over 80 days in jail in total and received four strokes of the cane.

So lets sum up the FACTS.

Firstly he was never caught vandalising anything. Secondly the only witness to put him in the frame was a kid who had been caught driving his parents car around Singapore at 3am and was looking for leverage to get out of the current trouble he was in. The police found no evidence of Michael causing vandalism. The police kept him in jail for 9 days before forcing a confession out of him as he could not take any more and according him him they were threatening physical violence if he didnt confess.

Now I'm not saying stealing a few road signs doesnt deserve to go unpunished (even when you are just a teenager), but to lock a boy up for over a week without charge or evidence to the crime they forced him to confess to on the sole account of a juvenile that was being held for another charge and then be sentenced to physical punishment and another 4 months in jail is barbaric. Its the very reason that we have democracy so the state can be held accountable when they overstep the boundaries of acceptable moral behaviour, policing methods, judicial boundaries and over the top punishment.

Everyone who has actually researched this case properly has automatically drawn the only logical conclusion that as they had not caught the real culprit they used Michael as a warning to them what would happen if they continued and got caught.

Here's a bit you chose to leave out. "The Singapore Embassy received "a flood of letters" from Americans strongly supporting Fay's punishment, and some polls showed a majority of Americans favored it" So (in your opinion) the majority are not capable of critical thinking. Well I'm with the majority.

He had signed a confession, of course they thought he did it. Do you honestly think the government when instructing the ST to run a story about a boy who had confessed to the recent spates of vandalism that they included the bits about not actually catching him, not having any evidence, not giving him access to legal representation and locking him up for 9 days till he confessed? Come on, use your brain.

Because you would really have to know those points to enable some critical thought. I am sure that if those facts were available to the American families at the time they wouldnt have been sending letters. The sad thing is, you are aware of those facts and still think he deserved what he got.

I'm all for punishing offenders and strictly too. Singapore's harsh laws are something that could be taught to many a Western nation, but only if there is overwhelming evidence to suggest the person is actually guilty. Which certainly wasnt the case here.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Kananga

[Kananga]

This is the trouble when you hear half stories and then make a bit up yourself to sensationalise it. Let me explain what actually happened.

Everyone who has actually researched this case properly has automatically drawn the only logical conclusion that as they had not caught the real culprit they used Michael as a warning to them what would happen if they continued and got caught.

Interesting 'insight' into what 'actually' happened. I guess the 'research' was from what Michael Fay himself told the outside world? How independent is that? Anyway, lets not debate that.

And what happened to Michael after he returned to the US?

He was arrested for beating up his father, for drug abuse, and was in rehab. If he had stayed in an environment like Singapore's, he would have thought very hard before misbehaving like he did shortly after returning to the US.

Yes, lets debate the facts. The fact he wasnt caught in the act of vandalism, that the police only got his name from a crime causing juvenile and there was no evidence to link him to the crimes is not 'research', they are the facts surrounding the case. If you want to believe otherwise thats your right, but arguing with facts just makes you look like someone who can't accept the truth.

If you want to look at 'research' there is plenty of research to suggest that subjecting people, let alone teenagers to cruel, painful physical punishment and incarceration can lead to behavioral issues. If he hadnt been coerced into signing a confession for a crime there was absolutely no evidence to link him to (which is a fact by the way) then he wouldnt have been subjected to the punishment and the potential behavioral issues that came as a result of it.

Therefore it is an entirely plausible explanation that the violence towards his father and drug abuse is a direct result of being subjected to punishment there was no evidence to link him to.

But lets not let those little details get in the way of a good story shall we?

The Michael Fay case happened in 1994 not worth debating any more

Yet you still keep commenting on it...

Its ok, I know why you dont want to debate it, its because you have actually finally learnt the facts surrounding the case and dont like the fact they are at odds with your opinion of what happened.