Learn Thai?

[mrmnp]

Having native born (farang) accent and a natural bent toward foreign language proficiency in Japanese, I lack vocabulary to be a "good" speaker, although I am fluent in what words I do know and a killer accent.

Now I am in Thailand, and find my lack of ability to speak the language a shortcoming. Likewise, my advanced age is a shortcoming. I live with many shortcomings.

While I am enjoying my retirement in Chiang Mai immensely, I am on the horns of the dilema, should I try to learn Thai? When I traveled to Hong Kong the first time from Japan and was unable to speak to Chinese, I, for the first felt what it was like not to be able to speak to someone, even on a rudementary level. That was decades ago.

Since Japanese fully expect English to come out of your mouth when a Gaijin (Farang) speaks to them, it is often necessary to say in Japanese, when first addressing them, to say "I am speaking Japanese", otherwise, no matter how expert you are, your initial Japanese is not undestood, as they are trying to understand the expected English.

My major worry in trying to learn Thai, is the tones. My son-in-law, a musician, loves to try to speak Thai and has alot of fun with it because, I surmise, he is intrigued by the tones.

Japanese, Spanish and English are not tonal, in fact Japanese is strictly atonal. Thus, I am behind the eight ball from the start. My limited efforts to be approving by saying "di ma" goes unacknowleged. Sawadee etc. is well received but thats about it.

Additionally, my Thai friends, when asked by me if a Farang we overhear speaking Thai "speaks well, the response is always in the negative. Without positive feedback from the listener, the novice speaker of any language is bound for continued frustation, anger and abandonment of effort.

This long winded post is to try to "flavor" the reply posts solicited. While I would like to have the facility to be undestood by Thais who do not speak English, is it really worth, what I view as a monumental effort by a retired, relaxed, farang with really no driving ambition to learn Thai. P.S. When I go out of my "perfect" home , I am always accompanied by my Thai companion who speaks good Tinglish and Thai, although I sometimes wonder when I am trying to custom order somehting.

Earnest advice and experiences will be very much appreciated.

[adjan jb]

One of the obvious con is that you'll understand what they say about you.

[mrmnp]

adjanjb: So true. I was riding a local out of town train in Japan as a teenager when two farmer ladies on the way to market commented that " that foreingner boy over there sure has a big nose". Without thinking, I replied "Is that so".

They were so embarrased they got off at the next stop, far from their market destination and many hours before the next local train. I am far more judicious in what I acknowledge I understand in foreign countries thses days.

[paulsenp]

I have been married to a thai for 25 years, and still haven't learnt to speak thai. I understand some, can even read a little, but have not practised speaking it. My excuse has been, that I would not learn thai until my wife is fluent in danish (I am danish, and we live in Denmark).

A few years from now I will retire, we will probably move to Thailand, and now I wish I could speak the language. Still, I am sure there is time to learn it, even at my age (59).

I think you should make an effort to learn the language. Things will become a lot easier for you, and you will not be so dependent on others. I am certain you won't regret it.

I have also studied japanese for some years, and have been in Japan a few times. I can speak a bit and read and write a little too. I even wrote a bit of poetry in japanese, tanka, and not bad at all.

It is funny, that you seem to get only negative replies, when asking thais about whether other farangs speak thai well. My experience is just the opposite.

[tutsiwarrior]

to learn to speak, read and write thai in retirement: the last intellectual challenge before death? Fukc it...give me cable tv and crime novels any day...unless one was foolish enough to undertake a business in their waning years; then you get what you deserve...

[Pink Mist]

Each to his own I say, If you want to learn Thai and you got a lot of time on your hands then do it. Get a tutor and speak it every day.

My relatives respect the fact that I try and communicate with them, most don't speak English anyway. I get a few laughs when I pronounce some things but will keep at it, I keep getting told they arn't laughing at me.

It certainly is an advantage in Issarn knowing how to communicate as english speakers are not as prolific as other areas of LOS.

[Mig15]

I can see no cons apart form that it is difficult. Don’t think about the tones just say the words as you hear them. I find it easy to speak Thai with my partner but not with others – I think it’s a confidence thing.

[Gatsby]

I say why not? Never too old to learn a few new tricks. Keeps the brain active. I have found even with my limited speaking abilities that most Thai people think it is great when Farangs try to give it a whirl. My wife thinks my Thai is "Narak Mak Mak" even though she speaks English much better than I speak Thai, she still insists that I sweet talk her in Thai because it makes her giggle her ass off.

I would say I speak better than most farangs I have met, but only because I seem to catch the tones easier than most. Having said that, I can't read or write it to save my life

[mouse]

I speak English, German, and Italian fluently and cannot get even close to speaking Thai although I have been here for more than 5 years now. I guess it is the age.

[Boon Mee]

The Thais are always "kreng-jai" to us farangs whether we speak Thai or not but I've found that the more you speak & read their language, the easier life is in LOS.

As far as writing Thai, I gave that up at the Pratom 4 level!

[mjcl]

If you are going to live in Thailand, learning to speak Thai is a, in my opinion, a must. I went to school for four years to learn to speak Thai, and am now fairly fluent in conversational Thai.

Don't worry about the tones to start with, they will come as time goes by. The most important thing is to get the sentance structure correct, them most Thai's will understand what you are saying even if you have the tones wrong.

As for the age factor, well you are never to old to learn new things if you want to.

[chanchao]

I agree it's a must.... especially when you're not in a place like Bangkok or Pattaya. It just makes things SO much easier, you're so much more part of the communicty and generally more respected I think.

Not sure that it's old age that makes it more difficult to learn than picking up German, French or Italian. Many European languages share common roots, or have words that are similar or derived from the same concept. All of this makes them much easier to pick up. Now when learning Thai, you are faced with virtually NO words sounding similar to what you already know. So it's a steeper hill, requiring actual study. You can';t just pick it up by being there. (Tried that, didn;t work).

I do think tones are important, but agree that it should never stop you from using Thai even if you don't know the tone. "Jast loke whan I chenge tha vowil in mi wurds," you will likely still pick up on what is meant. It's kind of the same with tones; context and grammar account for a lot too.

Same for learning to read some Thai by the way. It may seem difficult at first but really it's quite logical in the way it's written. Again worth the effort, also because it gives you a greater understanding of the language. And after all, do you really want to be illiterate?? It absolutely amounts to being on the same level as some illiterate hick back home when you can't read a simple sign or menu.... (Ok that's worded a little strongly perhaps, but I do think there's a lot of benefit in learning to read from the start as well.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[mrmnp]

Thank you all for your incredible advice. ChanChau, your "strong advice" really reached me, perhaps I need the strong advice approach, unlike Thais.

I studied Japanese at the University of Hawaii the year before I came to Thailand (2 years ago) and found that my language ability in Japanes allowed me to keep up with the class, but once we got to Kanji, it was just too much. I got an A in the first semester, but each exam took every minute of the alloted time and I was always the last to leave. Thus I concluded that age made me slower, not dumber.

Can anyone recommend a Thai language book that has a good phonetic approach in learn Thai conversation?. My Japanese text book had been just published the year I took the course and professed to be the latest in language training.

It used the phrase method and arranged the chapters by "situations' ie, going to a department store, going to a restaurant, going and coming home, etc. When I studied Japanese years ago, we leared grammar first, every article at one time, etc. The phrase method seems more expeditious and immediately more useful than the method by which I learned Japanese. I know "pillow talk" will help me alot also.

Pending question: Phonetic phrase books and/or language texts arranged by "situations"? Suggestions please. Any computer programs out there? Cd's. Recommendations? Thank you.

[Boon Mee]

Mrmnp,

The best one I've found for beginners getting the correct phonetics is put out by the US State Dept. - published by Audio Forum. You can find it on Amazon etc.

Best of luck!

[Gatsby]

If you want a decent jump start on a core vocab really quickly, I would suggest the Pimsluer Thai course. It is only ten lessons, but I have found that almost everyone I have introduced it to has learned very very quickly how to say the most common of phrases and it teaches excellent pronunciation skills.

I would also suggest the "Thai for beginners" set by Benjawan Becker. They have three courses along with an "improving your pronunciation" CD recently released. Mrs. Becker and her husband also published "Thai for lovers" which I find the most entertaining of the books.

"Teach yourself Thai" by David Smyth is a great book, but the cassettes that come with it are really lame in my opinion.

Finally, I have heard from many (but have no experience myself) that the Linguaphone Thai set (by David smyth) is the best comprehensive way to learn. The price is pretty steep at about US $400 however. I beleive it has 20 cassette lessons and 4 textbooks.

Good luck! I consider myslef a pretty bright guy, but learning Thai is one of the toughest things I have done intellectually. Don't get me wrong, I am no master at all!

PS. Good dictionaries help too! Try and find ones that have native Thai/phonetic Thai, that way you can look up words with your partner more easily.

[Spee]

Hello Group,

Gotta agree with everyone above saying it is a must if for no onther reason than safety, personal security and basic societal functionality.

I'm only a few months into my learning process and am still taking baby steps, but the Thai people I know are impressed with what I've learned so far. My Thai GF also gets suprised and happy when I bring new words or phrases into the conversation. Same goes for her with learning american-speak. She is learning from me and I am learning from her.

While the tonality can be tricky, from my limited experience I think it just comes with practice and trying to use it. I'm kinda sorta getting the hang of it, though still have a long way to go.

For me so far, the hardest thing has been trying to learn to read and write Thai script. It is like being back in pre-school all over again, trying to learn to print slowly when others around you can write cursive with speed and ease.

This too is coming along slowly but surely. I think the key to reading Thai script is becoming familiar with the common phrases and the context that they are used in. Then very often you see the same patterns in the rows of letters and it helps to interpret what is being written. It is difficult, but I started with trying to recognize little things like the "ka" and "khrup" polite particles and other simple 2 and 3 word combinations and then working my way up.

The same goes for learning through listening. I try to listen as closely as I can when I hear Thais speaking. Even though I can't understand everything perfectly, I can still pick up little bits and pieces. I still can't understand complete and extended conversations, but I'm further than I was only a few months ago.

My Thai-speak and Thai-write education is on a 3-5 year timetable. Hopefully at the halfway point I will be semi-fluent and then later on fluent in all aspects of reading and writing.

Regards,

Spee

[sbk]

When I first came to Thailand and started learning Thai it helped me alot that my husband's 4 year old nephew was right next door. Nothing helps you to learn Thai like hanging around a little one, they are just learning too so have more open minds to your incorrect tones. I also found their tones were alot easier to hear because they are also learning them correctly for the first time. Just listen to a little kid count to ten, the tones are much clearer than when an adult does it.

As for being too old, I remember reading somewhere that the more you stretch your mind as you age the more agile your mind stays. So just think of it as a long-term plan to fight senility!

[Georgie-Porgie]

When I first came to Thailand, I didn't have to work for the first few years, so I took a lot of Thai language courses at AUA. I didn't want to study very hard, so my attitude was that I would just go to class and pick up whatever I could without staying up all night memorizing tones and such, but, I took each level several times, to keep myself entertained, and to make sure that it all sunk in.

I'm no Joe Cummings, but it worked pretty well for me!

[britmaveric]

Learning Thai is a good thing in my opinion... definitely keeps the locals off balance since they aren't sure how much you know and are a bit more careful on what they say. Not to mention it does wonders for you since they know you've took the time to learn some of their language.

Thai fiance keeps saying- No good Ferang learning Thai. (find it amusing when she says this) Cliche- knowledge is power certainly applies in Faire Thailand!

[Up2U]

When living in the bar-girl environment, which lasted many years, I found it unnecessary to know more than 'tip tang, krap' - but now being married and having to communicate with a six-year-old daughter, it is both fun and brain-work.

But then of course my daughter, being town-bred, criticises her mother's Thai, which is from Issaan.

Don't worry about making an idiot of yourself, the Thais appreciate any attempt to speak their language, in a similar manner to the Spanish. Very few other nations (e.g. the French) welcome the mangling of their speech by foreigners in the way these two nations seem to.

[khunphilip]

sbk is spot on I have a three year old granddaugther and learn alot from her I have been studying Thai reading and writing for some years and use my hobbies to assit from a Thai newspaper write out the English football teams and the Chiangmai horse racing programe translate colours and news gives me an extra intrest. I do find reading and writing Thai easier than speaking

PHIL

[Thaiboxer]

Hi Folks,

There are some interesting and informative posts on here. As to what Thai language books are best for us farangs, it probably will vary from person to person (as everyone learns differently). The "Thai For Beginners" by Becker is decent, but I found it hard to follow as it seemed to jump too quickly from one lesson to the next. A British colleague of mine at work suggested a book/tape package by James Higbie (I believe this author is British). The book is fairly thick, softcover and measures about 30cm X 25cm X 4cm. The cover and binder are a tea brown color and there is some sort of design on the front. The DK bookstore and perhaps Asia Books would carry it. This is supposed to be one of the better Thai language books out there. I've seen it at work and it appears to be pretty well laid out.

I would also suggest learningthai.com as this website offers free lessons in Thai and will allow you to hear natives pronounce various words/phrases if you have speakers. This website is run out of a Mattayom (middle/high) school in Samut Prakan by some former students. Last but not least, you can always buy some cheap Thai alphabet books. These are available at just about any mall or bookstore and feature color pictures of things that coincide with the particular letter. This is what Thai kindergarten boys and girls learn from. If you have a Thai family member or friend to help you, it won't be long before you can start to read signs and pick up on your pronunciation skills. I can't really read or write more than a couple characters, but I'm getting there! Good luck!

[trangfarang]

Thai fiance keeps saying- No good Ferang learning Thai. (find it amusing when she says this) Cliche- knowledge is power certainly applies in Faire Thailand!

Sounds like an upstanding and trustworthy lass.

[trangfarang]

Don’t think about the tones just say the words as you hear them.

Simple but valuable advice. This is the way I learnt. For the first three months, everyday after work I would sit down with a group of Thais and just listen, after a while I could join in. Don't get caught up with trying to figure out what tone every word is but rather just try to mimic the way the Thais are saying it. Learning to read from the word go is also extremely helpful.

[dkstoney]

"Additionally, my Thai friends, when asked by me if a Farang we overhear speaking Thai "speaks well, the response is always in the negative. Without positive feedback from the listener, the novice speaker of any language is bound for continued frustation, anger and abandonment of effort."

"..., is it really worth, what I view as a monumental effort by a retired, relaxed, farang with really no driving ambition to learn Thai. "

Really, now. Only you can answer these things. It sounds like you're answer is already, "No." I think that when Thais tell you that the random farang does not speak fluently, they're probably telling the truth. It doesn't mean they are filled with derision at the attempt. You will find that no matter how well you pronounce it or how fluent you are that the Thais will probably always laugh. They do that. They will tell you you're fat, bald, not handsome, but usually because it's the truth. They aren't imbued with the same cultural mores and sensitivities.

So, if you can learn to handle a little laughter, maybe you can dish it out one day. If you're here to stay, why live in mystery? There is great respect for those who do speak Thai fluently, because it's so unusual. I can remember the Director of Studies at a school I once worked for long ago. We were in a taxi and he'd lived here for more than 5 years. He kept repeating the directions to the cabbie in English and each time louder and louder with exaggerated physical gestures. Needless to say, it was sort of an embarassing ordeal. If he'd just learned how to say "turn left. turn right. go straight. stop" he could have spoken quietly and saved a lot of calories and frustration on both sides. I'm sure the cabbie thought he was an ass.

Have your son help you to understand the tones better and take a class. Would it hurt you? I think a beginner's class would help you to answer this question on your own.

[kwiz117]

When reading this thread I am getting to realize how lazy I am to learn Thai?

The handful of words I know today are the words that I learnt during my first 2 weeks in Thailand from my wife. (then GF)

She is good with her English and language never became an issue for us. But I know a Brit who came during the same period and speaking Thai fluently. He has learned the language only because of her coz she is not good with her English.

Anyway, this is the excuse I put forward when people ask, why I can not speak Thai even after living in Thailand for almost 3.5 yrs.

I first thought working here will be impossible without Thai speaking ability. But the truth of the matter is, all employees wants me to speak in English for them to practice. This includes the Driver as well.

So no luck of getting any free opportunities to learn Thai.

But I understand the need for it by thinking about two great business opportunities I missed, simply due to the fact of my inability to speak in Thai.

Every year, I make a determination saying to everyone by the end of that year, I am somehow gong to learn Thai, but it never ever materialized as of this date.

About the age as a factor, I totally disagree because I am 29 yrs but still lazy to learn. I think Laziness and the lack of focus are the main two factors for any foreigner for not learning Thai.

Like some of us here, I am also making the Toner language an issue as a reason to put forward my case against my inability to speak in Thai.

If my wife were not able to speak in English, then I would have learned Thai by now simply to communicate with her. So some of our Thai friends now have started to ask from her, Why she do not put some effort to teach me? than asking from me, why I do not want to learn?

About the Distance Learning of Thai..I also purchased that 24 tape Cassette Set and the Book comes in the Black Plastic Box.

That is still lying in my book rack coz I could not make up my mind to listen to them. Infact, I copied some the Cassettes to CD's but that too went down the drain.. I have purchased some books time to time based on various recommendations.

I do not think you need to be an extra smart person to learn this language or any language for that matter. According to what I have gathered, all you need is some good reason and then go for it from the day you land here.

Now I am thinking of going for classes. If anyone like to invite me to a class that you are already learning in Bangkok, please drop me a PM. I really need some good company to learn this language.

[Boon Mee]

You don't have to be an extra smart person to learn Thai - you just have to want to. When my wife & I were first married and living in Thailand my Thai was great - could even hold a conversation on the phone which ain't no small feat if you know what I mean.

When the company I work for transferred us to Brazil for seven years my Thai other than common every-day words dried up. We were both learning Portuguese and speaking that & English around the house.

After shifting back to the states a couple years ago I pulled out my old AUA books and was surprised how fast it is coming back - reading. I couldn't pass the Thai Government P6 Exam by any means but that's my goal.

Boon Mee

[NedKelly]

If yo uare going to retire here thenyou should learn to speak Thai as best you can. I agree with what SBK said earlier about keeping your mind exercised. This is so true.....I once read some articles at Uni about retiress and the longevity of their lives after giving up work. Those who had no hobbies or other activities to occupy their minds, died very quickly while others who had stuff to keep themoccupied, lived longer. So keep your mind healthy by keeping it busy.

I find that being able to speak some Thai, makes it easier to get around. I like to travel in Thailand without a guide book. All I take is a map and Ilook at things that appear onthe map that may be interesting. It's a great adventure. Also, being able to read and wrire Thai helps when I am trying to say a word correctly....I can ask for a word to be spelled if I dont understand how it is spoken !! This helps immensely as I can see how it is written and therefore how it should be spoken.

Go for it !!

[britmaveric]

My TF was only winding me up or so I think in regards to saying Ferang knowing Thai no good! Wouldn't matter much anyways since she knows I'm learning it regardless and teaching her english as well. (even trade- no?)

[CM451]

I recently read an article that said when they looked at the brains of people who speak tonal languages, the part of the brain used for that function was using the same part of the brain we non-tonals use for music. Well, thats a good excuse if your not musically inclined.

Anyway, I need hear the thai phrases over and over (like a parrot) before I can learn them. I've started carrying a tiny digital recorder around and using it to record in English the everyday things I wish I knew how to say, whenever I notic one. I then get a Thai friend to record the Thai phrase, then burn them onto CD's or MP3's.

I'm willing to share some homemade mp3's by email to any CM locals that might want to try and/or build on this format.

Cheers,

email [email protected]