step daughters father refusing permision to allow daughter out of the country

[xen]

Without formal marriage at the Amphur your wife has custody of the child. My wife was in the same situation. We live in northern Thailand. We obtained a passport for her child without the father giving consent. We went to the Amphur office with two witnesses from the village who signed statements that the daughter was living with her mother at the stated address. The Amphur then issued a document which we took to to the passport office. They then issued her a Thai passport.

We have done similar, got both the kids their own passports. It is no guarantee they will get visas or be able to exit the country but it is something that you will have to obtain anyway . It also means we can take the kids to other surrounding countries for short trips so they begin to realise that Thailand is not the centre of the universe.

[DannyDubai]

A Por Kor 6 is custody a custody document issued by an ampur; it is full, legal custody. But does require the agreement of both parents.

OP this is incorrect, seek proper legal advice.

no they were never married, however the childs birth certificate is in the

fathers name

just like 90% of upcountry marriages!

Edited September 3, 2013 by DannyDubai

[Mario2008]

As has been stated, the mother has sole parental rights over the children as she was not married to the father. Only if the father would have had legitimised the child would he have parental rights. That is unlikely to be the case.

To apply for a passort mother must obtain the por khor 14 from the local amphur as stated, which shows that she has sole parental rights and the signatue of the father is not required.

The father's name on the birth certificate is not important. it is only a claim that he is the father and does not mean that he is so in a legal sense without having the child legalised.

[Engborg]

We were in the same situation and all it took was a trip to the amphur followed by a 5 minute visit to the local solicitor then 2 weeks later my wife had full custody.

If he has not contributed any cash and isn't able to show he has been a benefit in the child's life then you have no problem. Luckily for people in our position the guys have no rights to custody in Thailand.

Total cost to us 1000 Baht and a tip for the guy that dropped the papers off to us on his way home one night

Full custody can only be granted through the provincial family court. What your wife has is an Amphor custody, a por kor ill get the number later!

Its por kor 14 (pk14).

Done it myself. Just make sure you tell Amphoer that its for making passport, NOT visa (cause then they mix it up with another doc).

[realenglish1]

Just go get her passport without him knowing No reason to let him know and just go to the UK

Its that simple he has not paid for support so f****** k him

Stop posting on the board here hoping someone will come up with a magic bullet and go to the passport office

I had a daughter by a thai wife She knew her father but he did not help out so we just went to the passport office got her passport and left the country

Its that simple

[samran]

Without formal marriage at the Amphur your wife has custody of the child. My wife was in the same situation. We live in northern Thailand. We obtained a passport for her child without the father giving consent. We went to the Amphur office with two witnesses from the village who signed statements that the daughter was living with her mother at the stated address. The Amphur then issued a document which we took to to the passport office. They then issued her a Thai passport.

Why has everyone overlooked this post?

Keep your cash OP, find two witnesses from your wife's area and get them to the district office and sign off on it!

Job done...

Just goes to show when most TV punters get the choice between the right and easy way, or the dumb, ineffective and expensive way, they'll take the latter every time. Thai Visa would be a ghost town without these blokes.

[SSSlongtime]

took my wife children to the UK ,10 is good age ,still time to do 1 year at 1st school ,we had no trouble with there farther ,all you need is a passport ,getting a visa for the UK is not going to be easy as your wife has not been looking after the children for 6 years ,we had same story ,there visa was turned down ,got there in the end ,took one year ,money always works in thailand offer the man 5000bt ,he will change his mind ,if that does not work there are over ways ,if the child gets lot older they never settle in the west ,got one chance now ,good luck

[sfbandung]

Looks like it's been covered so I can just confirm what happened to us.

Missus got village boss (or whatever) to write a letter stating that the father had never contributed to the child's upbringing and no one at the village had seen him about. This was good enough for Foreign Affairs to issue a passport. Slightly more complicated when we went to lodge Aussie PR. They wanted to see either written permission from the father for him (son) to migrate OR a court order granting her sole custody. We did the latter. Cost a few thousand baht for lawyer but pretty well cruised through. Our lawyer said to missus that if the father got wind and wanted money that a simple threat to sue for 8 years of child support would put that to bed.

[jacko45k]

Okay, let me ask the obvious question........have you offered to any financial compensation to the father? 100K might save a lot of stress.

I would start a bit lower though.

[jacko45k]

Instead of offering compensation, send him a lawyer's letter demanding he contribute to the child's upkeep. he'll get the message.

It can go both ways.

That's the right answer. Don't offer money. It'll make you look weak.

If you offer cash, they've won. And they'll just ask for more.

It should be a one off payment after receiving the signature.....

Lawyers are the ones who keep asking for more.

[GrantSmith]

samran,

Hahaha spot on... Never fails to make me laugh and face palm every time I read a reply that is bang on point then have the next several posts chime in over the top with the opposite or off tangent information...

Stepford Husbands perhaps?

[7by7]

,money always works in thailand offer the man 5000bt ,he will change his mind

Have you not read the full topic?

The Thai MFA (i.e. Thai government) website says; because they never married the father's permission is not required.

This has been confirmed by people who have been in the same position as the OP.

There is no need to offer the man anything; no need for him to be involved at all.

As he apparently showed no interest in the child until a farang appeared on the scene, I have no sympathy for him.

[jackspratt]

It seems to me that getting the passport may be only part of the equation.

What are the requirements for getting a UK visa?

As sfbandung stated, for Oz it is a bit more complicated - in our case, the Por Kor 14 was sufficient, as we were only after a visitor (tourist) visa for my wife's (never seen his father) son.

Does the UK require some evidence of consent from both parents before issuing a visa?

[samran]

samran,

Hahaha spot on... Never fails to make me laugh and face palm every time I read a reply that is bang on point then have the next several posts chime in over the top with the opposite or off tangent information...

Stepford Husbands perhaps?

nah, brainless dills.

[Madgee]

Legitimation of Children in Thailand

http://www.siam-legal.com/legal_services/Legitimation-of-a-Child-in-Thailand.php

I'm no legal expert but according to the link above, the father has legal rights over the child as he is on the birth certificate. To me, it's not rocket science, it's not disputed that he is the biological father and unless there is some sort of court order against him, rightly or wrongly he has rights! To obtain what you want, especially as you are in the UK, is going to be a long, tedious and expensive task.

As you know, if / when you apply for her settlement visa you will be required to submit her birth certificate with a legalised letter from the father giving his consent or a Thai court order stating he has no custodial rights. IMO, those that say it is not necessary are wrong and failure to disclose all circumstances could cost you and your wife the reunion you desire with the child. The way the UKBA is, any discrepancy will give them the opportunity to refuse.

I'll agree with some other posters on this one, although not ethical, a plea about a better education etc. and some form of financial compensation could be the quickest and cheapest solution in the long run.

Just out of interest, what's the grandparents take on all this? Their influence could be crucial.

[MobileContent]

hi thanks for your replies, no they were never married, however the childs birth certificate is in the fathers name,

financial compensation, although nothing is 'off the table' has not been offered, basically cos a fter 6 years of marraige with 2 young children, there aint that much money available anyway, and secondly, my wifes folks are very proud, they want nothing from the man, and yes we know that it can go 2 ways, and he knows that aswell i think, the second way could be the worst result all round, from our perspective

If they were not legally married as far as I know your wife can bring her daughter out anytime she wants because she has 100% custody. He only gets joined custody if they legally married in an Amphur but the embassy might ask for the letter from the father in the birth certifcate.

Edited September 3, 2013 by MobileContent

[kiwiinasia]

Sit down with the poor bugga.

Have a whisky or two, chat, get personal.

Then get him to sign. Most do when emotional.

Run to the airport and piss off.

[7by7]

Does the UK require some evidence of consent from both parents before issuing a visa?

No; in fact the opposite!

The sponsoring parent needs to show that they have been exercising sole responsibility over the child for a considerable period.

Which basically means the child living with the sponsoring parent or their family and the sponsoring parent making all the decisions on the child's life and upbringing; with little or no input from the other parent.

See SET7.8 What is sole responsibility?

[jackspratt]

Does the UK require some evidence of consent from both parents before issuing a visa?

No; in fact the opposite!

The sponsoring parent needs to show that they have been exercising sole responsibility over the child for a considerable period.

Which basically means the child living with the sponsoring parent or their family and the sponsoring parent making all the decisions on the child's life and upbringing; with little or no input from the other parent.

See SET7.8 What is sole responsibility?

Would the Por Kor 14 be good (?sufficient) evidence of this?

[7by7]

if / when you apply for her settlement visa you will be required to submit her birth certificate with a legalised letter from the father giving his consent or a Thai court order stating he has no custodial rights. IMO, those that say it is not necessary are wrong and failure to disclose all circumstances could cost you and your wife the reunion you desire with the child.

Wrong.

Birth certificate; yes.

A sole custody document from the court or ampur could be useful, but as they never married than at present the father has no rights under Thai law; the mother has sole legal custody.

The ECOs at the embassy know this. They have to be sure that the child leaving Thailand will not breach any custody order; which will be the case here as the mother already has sole legal custody.

A letter of consent from the father could easily have a negative effect on the application as it will show that the father is still around and still playing a role in the child's upbringing. Therefore the all important sole responsibility requirement would not have been met.

I would recommend getting a P.K.14 from the local ampur, though, as this could help with showing sole responsibility.

Edit:

jackspratt, a P.K. 14 can help, but by itself will not be enough.

She should also include evidence of contact with the child and her current carer's, also, if possible, with the child's school and of all monies sent to the child's carers to cover the child's living expenses.

If possible, this evidence should cover the entire period of separation.

Edited September 3, 2013 by 7by7

[geriatrickid]

The answer is cash, GK has got it all wrong suggesting you go fixing for a fight. You are in no position to get involved in any type of long distance legal dispute. You'll end up getting milked by the lawyer and the case will stretch out as long as he wants it to.

To make it even worse, you might end up with the father swooping in and taking the child, saying that the mother abandoned her. How do you fancy them bananas? No one knows who is at the back of Thai family dynamics, always be careful, very careful of Thai Collective Intelligence.

There are far far far too many smart ass farangs out there that thought they could outwit the Thais and well, you know, ............................................................

Fill in the blanks yourself.

Sit down and work out a budget to buy him out, obviously go in low and see what happens. A spoonful of sugar and a bucket load of cash will go a long way, oh.......and tell him that she will get a fantastic education, which will lead to a wonderful job, with amazing money, so that she can look after him when he is old.

It's nice that in addition to having expertise on all matters, you now deem yourself competent to offer advice on family law in Thailand.

Although my comment was made prior to knowing that the child is considered to be illegitimate as it was born out of wedlock, the father is still liable for child support as it is his name on the birth certificate. Had it been the mother's name, he could have avoided responsibility. These types of cases have been discussed on Thai legal forums and blogs for decades.

Where did I say go have a fight? Perhaps you get into fights because you launch into a babble fest, but the reality here is that if the father has acknowledged "ownership" of the child, then the father is liable for the costs of child care. Do you always back down when faced with a difficult situation and offer money? Has it occurred to you that offering money at this point will only encourage the behaviour. Perhaps you do not have access to a professional competent lawyer, but there are decent legal professionals in Thailand. It is not an expensive process if one sets down the rules ahead of time. This isn't about a battle of wits, although, I certainly won't question your lack of confidence. There need not be a confrontation, nor even a fight. A simple lawyer's letter is often enough to encourage co-operation. It is shameful that 2 elderly grandparents are obliged to raise the child. The father's behaviour isn't acceptable behaviour in Thailand, Now maybe, some foreigners think that's how Thais are, but the reality is that thailand has some very conservative social values, and Daddy-o is on the hook.

[Mario2008]

Legitimation of Children in Thailand

http://www.siam-legal.com/legal_services/Legitimation-of-a-Child-in-Thailand.php

I'm no legal expert but according to the link above, the father has legal rights over the child as he is on the birth certificate. To me, it's not rocket science, it's not disputed that he is the biological father and unless there is some sort of court order against him, rightly or wrongly he has rights! To obtain what you want, especially as you are in the UK, is going to be a long, tedious and expensive task.

As you know, if / when you apply for her settlement visa you will be required to submit her birth certificate with a legalised letter from the father giving his consent or a Thai court order stating he has no custodial rights. IMO, those that say it is not necessary are wrong and failure to disclose all circumstances could cost you and your wife the reunion you desire with the child. The way the UKBA is, any discrepancy will give them the opportunity to refuse.

I'll agree with some other posters on this one, although not ethical, a plea about a better education etc. and some form of financial compensation could be the quickest and cheapest solution in the long run.

Just out of interest, what's the grandparents take on all this? Their influence could be crucial.

Read the article you link to again. The birth certificate does not mean the ftaher has legal rights. It only means he has grounds to petition the court to become the legal father.

[vansteen]

Couldn't it be possible that your wife lost the original birth certificate.

If so, she might be able to obtain a new one without the biological father's name (just to avoid potential mistakes during the visa application process).

Edited September 3, 2013 by vansteen

[Mario2008]

It's nice that in addition to having expertise on all matters, you now deem yourself competent to offer advice on family law in Thailand.

Although my comment was made prior to knowing that the child is considered to be illegitimate as it was born out of wedlock, the father is still liable for child support as it is his name on the birth certificate. Had it been the mother's name, he could have avoided responsibility. These types of cases have been discussed on Thai legal forums and blogs for decades.

<<snip>>

The father is only liable for child support if he is the legal father, otherwise the child has no father as far the law is concerned.

A (Thai) birth certificate always mentiones the name of the mother and father, (If known. Sometimes the name of a family member is registered as the father to avoid loss of face).

[7by7]

Couldn't it be possible that your wife lost the original birth certificate.

If so, she might be able to obtain a new one without the biological father's name (just to avoid potential mistakes during the visa application process).

Yeah, have her forge a legal document; that's going to help; not!

They were not married; the mother is the sole legal custodian; the father has no legal rights whatsoever.

How many more times has that got to be said before people take it in?

[monkey4u]

His timely demise from motor cycle accident should negate the need for permission

[7by7]

KennethReed,

From post 2 onwards, a lot of ignorant crap has been posted by people who know very little, if anything at all, about the subject; but who, unfortunately, think they know a lot.

Ignore it.

To obtain her passport, follow the procedure as described on the Thai Government website.

For her UK visa, see UK Settlement Visa Basics.

If you have any further questions, I suggest that you start a new topic; hopefully the ignorant will stay out of that one!

[7by7]

His timely demise from motor cycle accident should negate the need for permission

How many more times:

THEY WERE NEVER MARRIED; SHE DOES NOT NEED HIS PERMISSION!!!!!!!

Got it now?

[winstonc]

i wish you luck..but i have to say that the mother abandoned the child also to go to england and it wasnt for a 2week holiday was it so it seems logical that the father has a say over the future of his child too...lets dont always blame the father ok..women are quite capable of dumping there offspring onto the grandparents...just saying...good luck...

Edited September 3, 2013 by winstonc

[Straight8]

Without formal marriage at the Amphur your wife has custody of the child. My wife was in the same situation. We live in northern Thailand. We obtained a passport for her child without the father giving consent. We went to the Amphur office with two witnesses from the village who signed statements that the daughter was living with her mother at the stated address. The Amphur then issued a document which we took to to the passport office. They then issued her a Thai passport.

Why has everyone overlooked this post?

Keep your cash OP, find two witnesses from your wife's area and get them to the district office and sign off on it!

Job done...

Just goes to show when most TV punters get the choice between the right and easy way, or the dumb, ineffective and expensive way, they'll take the latter every time. Thai Visa would be a ghost town without these blokes.

Now you see why we are labelled as nothing more than stupid dumb walking ATM's in the Thai's eyes.

Well said samran!!!