Thailand education: Low ranking for quality despite high spending

[Mosha]

It's the teachers!!!

Gawd you would think it was rocket science

It's the system.

[Noistar]

They need to evaluate the administrators and the private schools. MOE has too take a lot of the blame. They don't inspect schools that pay. Hard to blame teachers when they were taught the same way. If they can't even learn to read and write their own language, how are they gonna learn English or any other language for that matter. Getting corruption out of the education system might be a good start. Not gonna happen in the near future.

I'd go along with your comment 'Hard to blame teachers when they were taught the same way'

Unfortunately this is how the failures in the Thai education system will be perpetuated.

Until a line is drawn and effective (non-Thai?) teachers can see a whole stream through from P1 to M6, a crop of self-grown effective teachers will never exist.

Humblest etc

[Robby nz]

I have been interested to read the teachers comments on this subject.

While I am no teacher we do have a 10yr old boy staying with us so I consider that I have some sort of a stake in his education.

I have also read a bit about this elsewhere and I see that the majority of students consistently fail national tests right through the grades and that a few years ago teachers sat the same exams as their students and the teachers failed too.

There is a thing called the Thailand Development Research Institute which has said among other things that locals should be allowed to run the schools and design their own curricula.

Don't know if 'run' is the correct word or if parents should design curricula but parents should have a say in how schools are run and be a check on how budgets are spent and be a part of teacher evaluation.

Where I come from all schools have what are called Parent Teacher Committees which do just that with regular meetings between school staff and parents.

Don't tell me parents don't care for there will be enough caring parents at each school who would do this if given the chance.

There have been many calls for education reform but these calls have always fallen on deaf ears. Thailand definitely needs education reform. But it won't happen until the Education Ministry lets go of complete central control.

[selftaopath]

I am sure the teachers are well looked after in terms of salary & benefits as they are a large voting block after all. Not to mention the extra money teachers make by providing extra tuition which is required due to the inadequate teaching methods so it would be a conflict of interest for them to do a good job. Then there is the oft repeated opinion that the rich & powerful do not want a well educated populace capable of rational & independent thinking but this line of thought, if true, is completely erroneous as a well educated workforce can generate much more income for the country.

Good point and analysis and what you say is true when using logic and reason but you neglected to factor in Thai society lack of reason / critical thinking. While it is true better educated workers could generate more national income, society simply does not see it that way.

National income is not relevant to the "masters." They make sure their offspring are educated so they can "run" things and benefit from education/skill learning/ adequate world view etc. They will remain a "big fish" in a little pond. This definitely ensures prosperity/control for the minority.

[historyprof]

Every farang who has experienced Thai teaching methods first hand realizes that, no matter how much money they spend, as long as students are lectured to and not taught how to think and reason for themselves, the education will not happen. Unfortunately, this suits the politicians just fine as a thinking population might question their wisdom in governance.

"The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires." William Arthur Ward. Thailand is in great need of teachers who inspire their students to be inquisitive and to study and become lifelong learners.

That's just silly. The basics are rote memory. Thai kids can't read Thai and can't write Thai and don't have basic arithmetic skills. You are talking college. I'm talking grade school. They don't need any more brain stress. Start with the basics.

What is just silly? My whole post? Is teaching young people how to reason and learn for themselves silly? If you wait until college to teach this, you've waited too long and left the vast majority behind. Already 50% who start school do not finish the 12th grade.

"Teach the Thai language and basic arithmetic skills and then send them out to make a living." In twelve years this is all you expect the system to teach? What kind of job will they qualify for with "Thai language and basic arithmetic skills"? It seems to me you just want the school system to train laborers and not thinkers.

For the standard of living for ALL Thais to go up, companies requiring more than just 'labor' will need to do business here. That will not happen until the education level improves.

Just silly. Give me one example where children should be encouraged to think independently before college? Reading, writing and arithmetic till college. They can't add! You don't know this?

[johnnie20110]

Thailand spends a lot of money on education, but its pure BS to attribute that to the $250 a month salary many teachers are paid.

The money is squandered through corruption on bogus schemes and corrupt practices by those in power. Most of the money is long gone before it ever reaches the school.

Deputy Education Minister Sermsak Pongpanit said his ministry would not ignore the ranking.

Sure Sermsak will ignore it.

As one of those in power, he directly benefits from the corruption within the ministry with the biggest budget.

I think your 250$ wage is a bit undervalued.

Try 33,000 baht + for a qualified 15 year service teacher, was married to 1 and her 2 million baht debt.

For the umpteenth time, your example is much, much further from the norm for a Thai public school teacher than mine.

For every teacher making 33K, there are hundreds that make far, far less.

[johnnie20110]

i know a head of department who was braggin he was paying 70k a month mortgage on 2 condos

yes maybe he was lying

i wont bother with the patronising emoticon

Fair enough.

You already admit the people you know might be lying to you.

Anyone truly familiar with Thai public school teacher salaries (there's been several posting on this thread) know the true score.

[johnnie20110]

Yes, new teachers may start at 8,500B a month, some do their first year for free, and then have to buy themselves into starting positions, but after that its a sure bet in future years. They soon earn in excess of 20K+ as previously posted.

As previously posted, the caveat being they have worked 15 years (which is a bit long for "soon") and have a Masters degree.

By the time they retire they will be earning 40-50K-60K+ with a nice government pension for the rest of their days at a much lower age than western countries. Its a gravy train, pure and simple.

Nonsense. The top principal made 32K a month and retired last year with a 9K a month pension, after 35 years service.

Yeah, she's living the high life.

But please let us know where Thai public school teachers are making 60K a month.

There will be others, numbering in tens of thousands, desperately wanting to relocate there.

You could start by really helping out a fellow poster and his significant other:

I can assure you my girlfriend would be over the moon with ฿20,000 p/m.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/665764-thailand-education-low-ranking-for-quality-despite-high-spending/page-3#entry6793006

Tell her to become a government teacher

*sigh*

Read the link.

She IS a government teacher.

[Stradavarius37]

A "teacher" married to a "policeman" lives across the street from us. She "teaches" pre-schoolers." She proudly wears her govt. uniform and makes sure her new car is always clean. The govt. made the loan for the car and requires minimal payback. But the LOOK she and other car driving teachers present is remarkable. Unfortunately they do not TEACH adequately. SHAME for their impact on the youth of Thailand and the country's forward movement into a fully modern democratic society. I'm glad I am NOT a teacher in LOS.

Do you have direct knowledge that your neighbor is not a good teacher? Or are you just libeling her in an effort to embolden your generalization?

[The Usual Suspect]

Just to spin a bit of relativity on this subject from the rural point of view.....................

I was chatting with a Peace Corps volunteer who teaches English at our rural school in Isaan. I was lamenting the lack of proper attention to higher maths, science, world affairs, English language, critical thinking etc. at our school. The young volunteer said, "Try to look at this from a different prospective.The students who attend school here are the children of poor rural farmers and laborers for the most part. Many of them will leave after they complete 9th grade, and do just what their parents are doing. If they get a basic training in communication skills (reading, writing Thai) and basic math, that's probably all they're going to need.....they're not going anywhere."

I must say, my western sensibilities had a hard time with her comments but when I stopped and thought about it, she was probably right. If most of these kids learn enough to be able to function and make a living in their rural communities that's probably the best they can hope for. They're not planning on being M.P.'s, scientists or high rollers in the Bangkok business sector. Sure, there will be those students who decide to go further with their education, and they have that option if they choose it. Some of the kids at our school are very bright and hungry for a higher education and my wife and I try our best to accommodate them. We don't lose too much sleep on the students who couldn't care less about learning and would rather sleep in class or slip out back for a smoke. It's a bit sad, but I guess it really is all about perspective.......eventually, it all comes out in the wash.

[MrJohnson]

Every farang who has experienced Thai teaching methods first hand realizes that, no matter how much money they spend, as long as students are lectured to and not taught how to think and reason for themselves, the education will not happen. Unfortunately, this suits the politicians just fine as a thinking population might question their wisdom in governance.

"The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires." William Arthur Ward. Thailand is in great need of teachers who inspire their students to be inquisitive and to study and become lifelong learners.

That's just silly. The basics are rote memory. Thai kids can't read Thai and can't write Thai and don't have basic arithmetic skills. You are talking college. I'm talking grade school. They don't need any more brain stress. Start with the basics.

What is just silly? My whole post? Is teaching young people how to reason and learn for themselves silly? If you wait until college to teach this, you've waited too long and left the vast majority behind. Already 50% who start school do not finish the 12th grade.

"Teach the Thai language and basic arithmetic skills and then send them out to make a living." In twelve years this is all you expect the system to teach? What kind of job will they qualify for with "Thai language and basic arithmetic skills"? It seems to me you just want the school system to train laborers and not thinkers.

For the standard of living for ALL Thais to go up, companies requiring more than just 'labor' will need to do business here. That will not happen until the education level improves.

Just silly. Give me one example where children should be encouraged to think independently before college? Reading, writing and arithmetic till college. They can't add! You don't know this?

It is 2013 where I live. It sounds like it is 1954 where you live. The challenge for today's kids is not is memorizing a whole lot of information - it is knowing what to do with that information. We live in the 'information age' where facts are at our fingertips 24/7 courtesy of laptops, tablets and smartphones. The way most modern educators teach spelling and mathematics these days is to teach kids to look for patterns, not to simply memorize. Sorry, but the times table has even had to take a back seat. The world we now face and the one our kids will occupy will be about problem solving, innovation and communication. We have to find new ways to feed the planet and keep it livable. IMHO we cannot rely on old ideas. That is not to say that we should ignore old ideas but we have to move on. You have asked for one example where children should be encouraged to think independently before they go to college. Shall we draw an age line in the sand - let's say 17 years old. One would hope that children have confirmed some key values by that time. How do they do that. Do we just shove our values down their throats or should we encourage them through dialogue and debate to arrive at their own set of values - i am still talking about the essentials like honesty, integrity, compassion, diligence, curiosity, ambition, accountability, creativity. By encouraging kids to think about these things we are encouraging them to set internal parameters. This allows kids to transition into adults and develop their own moral and behavioral compass. Sure, teach kids some facts but let’s not make education so one-dimensional. It need not be so black and white. Like most aspects of life, it is shades of grey.

[historyprof]

Just silly. Give me one example where children should be encouraged to think independently before college? The question is not rocket science (kids don't design rockets to the moon). Kids are not going to find new ways to feed the planet. They are going to be farmers, work at 7/11 and be motorcycle taxi drivers and they can't add. So like I said give me one example where children before college should be encouraged to think independently? Is the kid looking for patterns the reason the cashier at 7/11 adds 10 plus 10, ten times before she can make change?

[MrJohnson]

Just silly. Give me one example where children should be encouraged to think independently before college? The question is not rocket science (kids don't design rockets to the moon). Kids are not going to find new ways to feed the planet. They are going to be farmers, work at 7/11 and be motorcycle taxi drivers and they can't add. So like I said give me one example where children before college should be encouraged to think independently? Is the kid looking for patterns the reason the cashier at 7/11 adds 10 plus 10, ten times before she can make change?

Kids grow into adults. They don't suddenly learn a new skill set at age 18. It is a developmental process. Kids will grow into adults who will be farmers who will have to find new ways to farm. Or we can just aim low, maintain the status quo - and where will the world end up? As I said in a previous post, this is a complex problem that requires a complex solution. Handing all kids an abacus and a dictionary is not a workable solution.

[jackr]

But it's not just the teachers. Bearing in mind that even for those kids that are getting a 'decent' education, a large proportion of them are returning home everyday to dopey parents (), the people they look up to, not to mention all the issues with face and the rest of it that other countries in the region perhaps don't ascribe as much worth to. Cynical, yes, but just sayin'... you're looking at generations before there's any real change regardless how much dosh is bandied about.

[historyprof]

Just silly. Give me one example where children should be encouraged to think independently before college? The question is not rocket science (kids don't design rockets to the moon). Kids are not going to find new ways to feed the planet. They are going to be farmers, work at 7/11 and be motorcycle taxi drivers and they can't add. So like I said give me one example where children before college should be encouraged to think independently? Is the kid looking for patterns the reason the cashier at 7/11 adds 10 plus 10, ten times before she can make change?

Kids grow into adults. They don't suddenly learn a new skill set at age 18. It is a developmental process. Kids will grow into adults who will be farmers who will have to find new ways to farm. Or we can just aim low, maintain the status quo - and where will the world end up? As I said in a previous post, this is a complex problem that requires a complex solution. Handing all kids an abacus and a dictionary is not a workable solution.

Still silly. No, farmers will not have to find new ways to farm. Agricultural Universities do that. One farmer out of a million will go to college and invent something. We don't educate the million who stay on the farm to be inventors. Since I have asked three times to find a reason why children should be taught to think independently and you can't answer I'll assume there is no reason but to teach skills that can be taught by rote. It's the same for the first two years at college. Maybe someone asked my opinion once or twice while I was a senior in college, It's not until much later that your opinion counts. I want my doctor sticking by tried and true methods learned by rote to save my life or put a stent in my heart. I don't want him thinking independently and trying a new approach.

I take it you are not a teacher. It is not a complex problem. It is a simple problem that can be solved by teaching the kids how to read and write and add and subtract and multiply. Why is this not being done now? Because they are being taught too much nonsense like English and Chinese languages and Thai Dancing.

[MrJohnson]

Just silly. Give me one example where children should be encouraged to think independently before college? The question is not rocket science (kids don't design rockets to the moon). Kids are not going to find new ways to feed the planet. They are going to be farmers, work at 7/11 and be motorcycle taxi drivers and they can't add. So like I said give me one example where children before college should be encouraged to think independently? Is the kid looking for patterns the reason the cashier at 7/11 adds 10 plus 10, ten times before she can make change?

Kids grow into adults. They don't suddenly learn a new skill set at age 18. It is a developmental process. Kids will grow into adults who will be farmers who will have to find new ways to farm. Or we can just aim low, maintain the status quo - and where will the world end up? As I said in a previous post, this is a complex problem that requires a complex solution. Handing all kids an abacus and a dictionary is not a workable solution.

Still silly. No, farmers will not have to find new ways to farm. Agricultural Universities do that. One farmer out of a million will go to college and invent something. We don't educate the million who stay on the farm to be inventors. Since I have asked three times to find a reason why children should be taught to think independently and you can't answer I'll assume there is no reason but to teach skills that can be taught by rote. It's the same for the first two years at college. Maybe someone asked my opinion once or twice while I was a senior in college, It's not until much later that your opinion counts. I want my doctor sticking by tried and true methods learned by rote to save my life or put a stent in my heart. I don't want him thinking independently and trying a new approach.

I take it you are not a teacher. It is not a complex problem. It is a simple problem that can be solved by teaching the kids how to read and write and add and subtract and multiply. Why is this not being done now? Because they are being taught too much nonsense like English and Chinese languages and Thai Dancing.

Prof, I think we will have to agree to disagree notwithstanding my 'silliness'. Just so you know you cannot blow me off with the 'I take it you are not a teacher' line, I've spent the best part of my working life in and around the classroom in various capacities (teacher/administrator/assessor/teacher-trainer - B.Sc., Dip. Ed. M.Ed., Dip. TESOL). Clearly over-qualified for this particular debate. We wouldn't want logic, facts or complexity to get in the way of a good rant, now would we.

[historyprof]

My father owned a factory in the US and they made a very complicated product. No other country made it. After WW II they opened factories in the UK and Germany and Japan. I asked my father why not China? He told me they would never had the skilled labor necessary to product this product. He was right at the time.

Now the factories are closed in the States and UK and Japan and all the product is made in China. Dad went broke before he died. Computers drive the machinery that now makes the product so it doesn't take much skill to push a button.

The number of skilled people required is much less than 20 years ago. Plumbers we need more. Draftsmen less. Wood pattern makers? I don't think there are any anymore. Things change.

[lemoncake]

Step one: stop passing those who fail

Step two : stop employing someone solely based on what they said. Ie if someone comes for job as an English teacher, make sure they really can speak write and read English and little better than a 5 year old. Same for computers teachers and other subjects

[MrJohnson]

My father owned a factory in the US and they made a very complicated product. No other country made it. After WW II they opened factories in the UK and Germany and Japan. I asked my father why not China? He told me they would never had the skilled labor necessary to product this product. He was right at the time.

Now the factories are closed in the States and UK and Japan and all the product is made in China. Dad went broke before he died. Computers drive the machinery that now makes the product so it doesn't take much skill to push a button.

The number of skilled people required is much less than 20 years ago. Plumbers we need more. Draftsmen less. Wood pattern makers? I don't think there are any anymore. Things change.

Well Prof. We finally agree on something. Things change. And as people we have to change and adapt.

Have a nice weekend.

Johnson

[nong38]

Instead of giving the kids tablet computers, which was just a vote catcher, they should have given them a board game called "Monopoly" so they could think about how things work.

Ok you can put Bangkok Street names on it, would Mayfair become Walking Street?

Edited September 6, 2013 by nong38

[oops]

Nothing will change until they remove the old Thai teachers who still live in a communist error mentality. With their regimental military

behavior. They spend hours on the boy scout drills which I know and remember America speaking out against it because it is not voluntary it's just a cover for military training.

Teachers will come in the classrooms and interrupt the foreign teachers and if the foreign teachers are making any progress with the students, the Thai teachers will tell them they can't do it.

1.If the school does provide internet they break all the computers and pile them up at the back of the class.

2.If the school has internet they turn it on for an hour in the morning at the same time when your supposed to go out to the morning assembly. When you come back, the internet is either two slow or you just can't log on.

3.They don't offer teachers a computer. They may put 15 teachers in one office and give them two computers and printers that most often don't work correctly or the push the computers into an area that makes it impossible to use.

4. I realize this is not about foreign teachers, but some foreign teachers are teaching more than just English. For instance, the Science teacher; who they never really give a budget for equipment and supplies to work from, only a few small things then ask the teacher to buy the rest with their low salary, " don't half too tell what happens there".

.5. Most of that money that the schools are getting most likely are for ceremonies, " you know the ones" every week or so they bring out fancy couches so the detector can sit in front of everyone looking like royalty. A director is supposed to be working no putting himself and a few selected staff members up on display.

6. High ranking Thai teachers will bust into classes and disrupt them intentionally. They will play loud VERY LOUD MUSIC during class ours so that the teachers can't be heard " and I do mean Loud"

7. They will have sports in the middle of the day so all the students disappear from class, instead of having on a Friday afternoon so they only miss one or two classes which isn't a problem because by friday afternoon the students aren't really with you.

8. It seems as if they are always being tested but not until after they have been out of class for several weeks, then they are tested on stuff the hadn't learned..( This varies in some schools )

9. Some schools even allow the drivers to use the kids as target practice. Yeah ! this is true, at one school I watched in horror as a small single cab truck sitting low tot he ground try to run over two little Thai girls, it was the worst thing I had ever watched as this truck plowed through the parking are " soccer Field " where these two girls were walking, the truck came up from behind them, didn't slow down. The two girls literally had to run and jump out of the way. But I see this at many schools that I have to go to for our charity group. It just shows that even the parents don't care.

10. They beat the ADHD children hoping they will learn. While at the same time in Sattahip they dress them up as ladyboys with coconut shell bra's and grass dresses so the can walk around the school all day and beat pans. Still to the day I have not been able to figure that one out. Even worse the teacher posted pictures of these young boys online. Later only to remover because they were terrible pictures. They should be playing soccer but they are teaching them to be entertainers for the wealthy.

11. Sattahip the language director out there wanted the M -6 children to just learn nursery rhymes all day long, not for their English classes, but for their Thai classes as well. These students were getting ready for a university.

12. Taking test if they fail give them the answers. But first, give them the answers so their is no reason for them to fail?

13. At a high school instead of treating them as young adults they are walking around hitting students with a stick. Then walking around with blow horns, screaming at the kids everyday. The children will listen to an hour speech every morning about nothing, it's crazy. This type of mentality only exacerbates the extremely high deaf syndrome issue. They come to classes and they are tone deaf to anyone speaking with.

Bottom line they don't teach they heard them like we do with cows.

Edited September 7, 2013 by oops

[oops]

The minister: "So when the quality of education in Thailand is ranked even lower than a country that spends less in terms of its GDP, it is possible that the education is actually poor," he suggested.

The academic: "Yet Thailand is unable to solve its educational problems," he lamented.

Me: If you wanted to improve education in Thailand, you would. If you wanted to stop the waste and corruption, you would. If you really cared about about the future of the people and not lining your own pockets or engaging in whining generalizations, you would do something about the dreadful state of education in Thailand.

But here's the deal. You don't care. Simple.

Where there's a will there's a way

The only " Will Power " Thailand has is to make sure either they reinvent the wheel or teach all the masses to be entertainers or unskilled labor.

The " WIll not let them go" They WILL NOT LET THEM GO!

AHhh I guess your right where there is a will there is a Thai suppressing

someone

[historyprof]

Response to Katanga. Schools change over time what was right 20 years ago may not be right now and of course it depends on the children. What is right for one child may not be right for all children.

I favor schools that have an admissions test to include psychological as well as academic tests and a school which prepares children for college.

I think every child should have a BA degree so they can function as a human being. After that up to them.

If I had a child who wanted to be a doctor I might suggest they stay in Thailand to study. I think Thai doctors are better than doctors in the West. They seem better adjusted.

Most Thai doctors who study in the West come back to Thailand to practice or teach; that has to tell you something because they don't make near as much money.

[Noistar]

Response to Katanga. Schools change over time what was right 20 years ago may not be right now and of course it depends on the children. What is right for one child may not be right for all children.

I favor schools that have an admissions test to include psychological as well as academic tests and a school which prepares children for college.

I think every child should have a BA degree so they can function as a human being. After that up to them.

If I had a child who wanted to be a doctor I might suggest they stay in Thailand to study. I think Thai doctors are better than doctors in the West. They seem better adjusted.

Most Thai doctors who study in the West come back to Thailand to practice or teach; that has to tell you something because they don't make near as much money.

I assume you're joking - have Thai schools/the education system changed? The requirements remain the same, keep the population ignorant and under-the-thumb and let Thai culture and apathy prevail.

From what I have seen, there seems to be a general lack of enthusiasm in schools. Students are free to wander in and out of the class during lessons, teachers need to drag lesson participation out of students. As long as students cow-tow to the teachers, they can do anything they want it seems.

I don't know if this casual attitude to lessons is prevalent in first-world schools. Certainly not in those schools which my family and friends children attend.

Now, everybody seems to get a qualification in Thailand. What are these 'BA's you talk about?

As (almost) everybody in Thailand graduates from university, why aren't they functioning as human beings? I think you're being patronizing to non-graduates. In the same way as pee are not necessarily best, graduates also are not necessarily the best.

Btw, want the name of a non-English speaking Thai doctor? Not sure how he keeps pace with developments in medical science.

[historyprof]

Response to Katanga. Schools change over time what was right 20 years ago may not be right now and of course it depends on the children. What is right for one child may not be right for all children.

I favor schools that have an admissions test to include psychological as well as academic tests and a school which prepares children for college.

I think every child should have a BA degree so they can function as a human being. After that up to them.

If I had a child who wanted to be a doctor I might suggest they stay in Thailand to study. I think Thai doctors are better than doctors in the West. They seem better adjusted.

Most Thai doctors who study in the West come back to Thailand to practice or teach; that has to tell you something because they don't make near as much money.

I assume you're joking - have Thai schools/the education system changed? The requirements remain the same, keep the population ignorant and under-the-thumb and let Thai culture and apathy prevail.

From what I have seen, there seems to be a general lack of enthusiasm in schools. Students are free to wander in and out of the class during lessons, teachers need to drag lesson participation out of students. As long as students cow-tow to the teachers, they can do anything they want it seems.

I don't know if this casual attitude to lessons is prevalent in first-world schools. Certainly not in those schools which my family and friends children attend.

Now, everybody seems to get a qualification in Thailand. What are these 'BA's you talk about?

As (almost) everybody in Thailand graduates from university, why aren't they functioning as human beings? I think you're being patronizing to non-graduates. In the same way as pee are not necessarily best, graduates also are not necessarily the best.

Btw, want the name of a non-English speaking Thai doctor? Not sure how he keeps pace with developments in medical science.

All of the Thai doctors I have met all spoke a bit of English. I don't think they could go through medical school in Thailand and not speak English. BA is a Bachelor of Arts degree. I assume liberal arts degree. I take it you have never taught in a Thai school, pity. You should try it before you become an expert on Thai education.

[Noistar]

Response to Katanga. Schools change over time what was right 20 years ago may not be right now and of course it depends on the children. What is right for one child may not be right for all children.

I favor schools that have an admissions test to include psychological as well as academic tests and a school which prepares children for college.

I think every child should have a BA degree so they can function as a human being. After that up to them.

If I had a child who wanted to be a doctor I might suggest they stay in Thailand to study. I think Thai doctors are better than doctors in the West. They seem better adjusted.

Most Thai doctors who study in the West come back to Thailand to practice or teach; that has to tell you something because they don't make near as much money.

I assume you're joking - have Thai schools/the education system changed? The requirements remain the same, keep the population ignorant and under-the-thumb and let Thai culture and apathy prevail.

From what I have seen, there seems to be a general lack of enthusiasm in schools. Students are free to wander in and out of the class during lessons, teachers need to drag lesson participation out of students. As long as students cow-tow to the teachers, they can do anything they want it seems.

I don't know if this casual attitude to lessons is prevalent in first-world schools. Certainly not in those schools which my family and friends children attend.

Now, everybody seems to get a qualification in Thailand. What are these 'BA's you talk about?

As (almost) everybody in Thailand graduates from university, why aren't they functioning as human beings? I think you're being patronizing to non-graduates. In the same way as pee are not necessarily best, graduates also are not necessarily the best.

Btw, want the name of a non-English speaking Thai doctor? Not sure how he keeps pace with developments in medical science.

All of the Thai doctors I have met all spoke a bit of English. I don't think they could go through medical school in Thailand and not speak English. BA is a Bachelor of Arts degree. I assume liberal arts degree. I take it you have never taught in a Thai school, pity. You should try it before you become an expert on Thai education.

I doubt there is a single poster (or single person anywhere in the world) who is an 'expert' on Thai education, apart from yourself apparently.

Witnessing education in action at several schools, in different locations, allows me to offer my opinion.

Teaching, as witnessing Thai teachers in action can prove, does not make you an expert IMO.

Btw, there is such a doctor in CM - fact! So what does this say about your wonderful degree system? School+Uni=doctor who can't speak English, working with a staff who can only 'speak' English via the translator app on their smartphone.

A 'fully' functioning person? Well, lets say 'partially' functioning, despite his graduate status.

[tetleythedog]

A "teacher" married to a "policeman" lives across the street from us. She "teaches" pre-schoolers." She proudly wears her govt. uniform and makes sure her new car is always clean. The govt. made the loan for the car and requires minimal payback. But the LOOK she and other car driving teachers present is remarkable. Unfortunately they do not TEACH adequately. SHAME for their impact on the youth of Thailand and the country's forward movement into a fully modern democratic society. I'm glad I am NOT a teacher in LOS.

Yes, you are so right. I'm in my 9th year here as a teacher. This week i asked a class of 48 students aged 16/17 who the Prime Minister is. Not 1 of them could answer. The whole thing is based on a no discipline culture. The young kids being left with grandparents who themselves had no education. The 'money talks' syndrome when only rich kids get to good schools even though they are inferior to kids from less wealthy or poorer families. No punishment for absenteeism. An 'everyone passes' mandate, even if they can't tell you their name. Money allocated for teachers syphoned off by directors. The list is endless. And to cap it all ........................if you have 100 Thai teachers in a school and 1 Farang........if the kids fail, who goes? The Farang of course............it's always our fault! lol Farang no good! Thai perfect! Crazy eh?

[MaxYakov]

Reading this thread has been very informative and morosely entertaining. Is it remotely possible that an undisciplined (among other untoward attributes) culture that supports a deeply-flawed education system could have a direct effect on the nation's productivity?

Thailand's GDP per capita is not exactly impressive at #87 by the World Bank's ranking here:

http://en.wikipedia....PPP)_per_capita

Edited September 8, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Noistar]

Response to Katanga. Schools change over time what was right 20 years ago may not be right now and of course it depends on the children. What is right for one child may not be right for all children.

I favor schools that have an admissions test to include psychological as well as academic tests and a school which prepares children for college.

I think every child should have a BA degree so they can function as a human being. After that up to them.

If I had a child who wanted to be a doctor I might suggest they stay in Thailand to study. I think Thai doctors are better than doctors in the West. They seem better adjusted.

Most Thai doctors who study in the West come back to Thailand to practice or teach; that has to tell you something because they don't make near as much money.

I assume you're joking - have Thai schools/the education system changed? The requirements remain the same, keep the population ignorant and under-the-thumb and let Thai culture and apathy prevail.

From what I have seen, there seems to be a general lack of enthusiasm in schools. Students are free to wander in and out of the class during lessons, teachers need to drag lesson participation out of students. As long as students cow-tow to the teachers, they can do anything they want it seems.

I don't know if this casual attitude to lessons is prevalent in first-world schools. Certainly not in those schools which my family and friends children attend.

Now, everybody seems to get a qualification in Thailand. What are these 'BA's you talk about?

As (almost) everybody in Thailand graduates from university, why aren't they functioning as human beings? I think you're being patronizing to non-graduates. In the same way as pee are not necessarily best, graduates also are not necessarily the best.

Btw, want the name of a non-English speaking Thai doctor? Not sure how he keeps pace with developments in medical science.

All of the Thai doctors I have met all spoke a bit of English. I don't think they could go through medical school in Thailand and not speak English. BA is a Bachelor of Arts degree. I assume liberal arts degree. I take it you have never taught in a Thai school, pity. You should try it before you become an expert on Thai education.

You need to explain to me what a graduate possesses that a non-graduate doesn't. Why is it a valid situation when a Thai holds an MA in English and authors a 'how to speak English' book which perpetuates the common mistakes made by Thais with respect to the English language?

How does anyone determine, via qualifications, how proficient a person is in a discipline? Clearly an MA doesn't.

If a degree doesn't display proficiency, what does it actually do? A population of fully functioning people who aren't competent to do anything?

I am still waiting for a patronizing graduate to actually explain to me how they are better than me.

[Fookhaht]

Instead of giving the kids tablet computers, which was just a vote catcher, they should have given them a board game called "Monopoly" so they could think about how things work.

Ok you can put Bangkok Street names on it, would Mayfair become Walking Street?

Actually, they should have spent a few million baht to run an electric wire to the 2000+ primary and high schools that remain without electricity. It is reported that a number of those schools actually received tablets which were good for about 6 hours--until they ran out of battery. No means to recharge. Now they sit in cabinets awaiting the day that their school will be brought into the TWENTIETH century.