Do you think you would ever fit in back "home" if you returned?

[ericnoodeeka]

i mean , just go back to last year, a top thai official sugested to put lots of boats in the river in bkk, and the propellers would drive the water to the ocean,

i mean really???? and this clown is in charge of a city with 12 million people???????

i rest my case.

[ericnoodeeka]

Katanga wrote, "She is currently in school in Thailand. In a fully international school following the British curriculum. It costs a lot and I have made sacrifices as a result, but you can't put a price on the value of providing the best education for your children. Don't you agree?"

My response. No. I moved back to the West to educate my children and when they were out of college moved back to Thailand.

No? No you agree that you can't put a price on providing the best education for your children, or no you don't agree with me that you shouldn't?

I like Thailand. I am pro Thailand. I am in education. Yes you can put a price on educating your children.

There was no school in Thailand when I moved back to the West that could educate my children to my standard at any price. There were 4 or 5 in the West at variety of prices. I chose a mid range one.

We are currently looking at schools in the West for my children for the same reason. Which school did you end up choosing as any advice would be helpful for them?

which country u going to??

im belgian.

i found a fantastic school in brugge.

schooling in belgium is number 11 on un list

uk 23

thailand 89

[Kananga]

No? No you agree that you can't put a price on providing the best education for your children, or no you don't agree with me that you shouldn't?

I like Thailand. I am pro Thailand. I am in education. Yes you can put a price on educating your children.

There was no school in Thailand when I moved back to the West that could educate my children to my standard at any price. There were 4 or 5 in the West at variety of prices. I chose a mid range one.

We are currently looking at schools in the West for my children for the same reason. Which school did you end up choosing as any advice would be helpful for them?

which country u going to??

im belgian.

i found a fantastic school in brugge.

schooling in belgium is number 11 on un list

uk 23

thailand 89

The UK most likely. But I would be keen to hear where historyprof put his kids as he is was in the education field.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Thats a very good point. It would appear that many people on this forum clearly put their lifestyle before their family. Like all the ex-pats here who subject their children to the thai education system and convince themselves they will do ok in it so they dont feel guilty about living in Ubon and drinking leo on their porches every night while their kids spend their school days learning how to play games on cheap chinese tablets that dont work properly. But hey, they can live in a dusty village and walk down the street wearing a massive amulet and no one laughs at them, so who cares what the kids will be doing in 20 years time. And for the 'second time around' fathers they wont be around by then anyway so who cares!

Can you really buy a nice house in the UK for under 40K UKP?

And what about the taxes and utils you need to pay on that, affordable?

I just bought a new, modern 3 bed, 3 shower house with rural views for that.

No taxes, but 350bht a month moobaan fees.

No absolutely not. Houses are more expensive in the UK. But that is why it is important to have a good education. So you can afford to buy things like houses and pay bills. And your kids can afford to too. Lets face it, we all know a Thai university degree isnt worth the paper it's written on. So educated in the local Thai system means that they are most likely going to have to get a job in Thailand. Which means about 20k baht a month. So if they put 25% of that aside each month to pay for their own house, it would only take them 40 years to pay off the loan on a 3 bed 3 shower house like you just bought.

Two of my former children in the US. One went on to be a doctor, one is a shelf-stacker in Walmart.

Both had the same upbringing and educational chances, one just wasn't interested and dropped out after 1 year of college.

Children behave differently, nothing a parent can really do to alter that, the harder you try, the less they listen.

Your argument that better educational chances equals better education and more money is entirely specious.

Some kids do well educationally no matter what the system, most don't give a dam_n and will never learn anything, no matter what chances they are given. Took me 30 years in the USA to pay my house loan off and I was a big earner by middle class standards.

PS

Good education = earning mediocrity

The biggest earners and self made millionaires usually have very little education.

Your advice will likely turn your children into middle class wage slaves, struggling their whole lives for nothing.

Edited September 7, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[ericnoodeeka]

Thats a very good point. It would appear that many people on this forum clearly put their lifestyle before their family. Like all the ex-pats here who subject their children to the thai education system and convince themselves they will do ok in it so they dont feel guilty about living in Ubon and drinking leo on their porches every night while their kids spend their school days learning how to play games on cheap chinese tablets that dont work properly. But hey, they can live in a dusty village and walk down the street wearing a massive amulet and no one laughs at them, so who cares what the kids will be doing in 20 years time. And for the 'second time around' fathers they wont be around by then anyway so who cares!

Can you really buy a nice house in the UK for under 40K UKP?

And what about the taxes and utils you need to pay on that, affordable?

I just bought a new, modern 3 bed, 3 shower house with rural views for that.

No taxes, but 350bht a month moobaan fees.

No absolutely not. Houses are more expensive in the UK. But that is why it is important to have a good education. So you can afford to buy things like houses and pay bills. And your kids can afford to too. Lets face it, we all know a Thai university degree isnt worth the paper it's written on. So educated in the local Thai system means that they are most likely going to have to get a job in Thailand. Which means about 20k baht a month. So if they put 25% of that aside each month to pay for their own house, it would only take them 40 years to pay off the loan on a 3 bed 3 shower house like you just bought.

Two of my former children in the US. One went on to be a doctor, one is a shelf-stacker in Walmart.

Both had the same upbringing and educational chances, one just wasn't interested and dropped out after 1 year of college.

Children behave differently, nothing a parent can really do to alter that, the harder you try, the less they listen.

Your argument that better educational chances equals better education and more money is entirely specious.

Some kids do well educationally no matter what the system, most don't give a dam_n and will never learn anything, no matter what chances they are given. Took me 30 years in the USA to pay my house loan off and I was a big earner by middle class standards.

PS

Good education = earning mediocrity

The biggest earners and self made millionaires usually have very little education.

i agree in pricipal, but i also believe parent imput and encouragement do make a big difference,

if u not give a hoot about them, yes they will be bums.

but at least if u try, then maybee they will become better than urself, and really thats every parents inner dream. for them to have an easier and better life then oneself.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

i agree in pricipal, but i also believe parent imput and encouragement do make a big difference,

if u not give a hoot about them, yes they will be bums.

but at least if u try, then maybee they will become better than urself, and really thats every parents inner dream. for them to have an easier and better life then oneself.

With the world economy, employment, education and pensions the way they have become, I doubt anyone will have a better life than we have. The future just doesn't look that good for new earners.

[Kananga]

Thats a very good point. It would appear that many people on this forum clearly put their lifestyle before their family. Like all the ex-pats here who subject their children to the thai education system and convince themselves they will do ok in it so they dont feel guilty about living in Ubon and drinking leo on their porches every night while their kids spend their school days learning how to play games on cheap chinese tablets that dont work properly. But hey, they can live in a dusty village and walk down the street wearing a massive amulet and no one laughs at them, so who cares what the kids will be doing in 20 years time. And for the 'second time around' fathers they wont be around by then anyway so who cares!

Can you really buy a nice house in the UK for under 40K UKP?

And what about the taxes and utils you need to pay on that, affordable?

I just bought a new, modern 3 bed, 3 shower house with rural views for that.

No taxes, but 350bht a month moobaan fees.

No absolutely not. Houses are more expensive in the UK. But that is why it is important to have a good education. So you can afford to buy things like houses and pay bills. And your kids can afford to too. Lets face it, we all know a Thai university degree isnt worth the paper it's written on. So educated in the local Thai system means that they are most likely going to have to get a job in Thailand. Which means about 20k baht a month. So if they put 25% of that aside each month to pay for their own house, it would only take them 40 years to pay off the loan on a 3 bed 3 shower house like you just bought.

Two of my former children in the US. One went on to be a doctor, one is a shelf-stacker in Walmart.

Both had the same upbringing and educational chances, one just wasn't interested and dropped out after 1 year of college.

Children behave differently, nothing a parent can really do to alter that, the harder you try, the less they listen.

Your argument that better educational chances equals better education is entirely specious.

Some kids do well educationally no matter what the system, most don't give a dam_n and will never learn anything, no matter what chances they are given.

Do you honestly think your child that went on to be a successful doctor would have been able to if they had been educated in the thai system? The majority of thai doctors in private healthcare in Thailand were educated in the west.

Its not about anticipating whether they will become a doctor or a shelf stacker, its about making sure you provide them with the best opportunities available, even if it means making sacrifices so they have the opportunity to become successful. If you tried your hardest and they still intend on working in walmart at least you tried your best for them. Deciding not to bother doing that in case they dont make the most of the opportunity is selfish and just an excuse for wanting to choose your own lifestyle over giving them the best opportunities.

And for the record my argument is not that better educational chances equals better education, its about providing them with better opportunities. A better education means better opportunities to do well in life and a better mindset towards hard work and success. You seem to have convinced yourself in your own head that children dont want to learn because that fits in nicely with your own agenda of not wanting to make sacrifices for your latest round of offspring as you seem to have already decided they are going to be failures.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Kananga

[Kananga]

i agree in pricipal, but i also believe parent imput and encouragement do make a big difference,

if u not give a hoot about them, yes they will be bums.

but at least if u try, then maybee they will become better than urself, and really thats every parents inner dream. for them to have an easier and better life then oneself.

With the world economy, employment, education and pensions the way they have become, I doubt anyone will have a better life than we have. The future just doesn't look that good for new earners.

A more positive outlook on that situation would be that with the world economy, employment and education what they have become it is even more important than ever to make sure they have the best opportunities.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Do you honestly think your child that went on to be a successful doctor would have been able to if they had been educated in the thai system? The majority of thai doctors in private healthcare in Thailand were educated in the west.

You are wrong, 95% of doctors in Thailand attended Thai government schools.

If you had the money to educate your kids in the west, you wouldn't want them working as doctors in Thailand.

That would be considered a total failure.

[rayongchelsea]

There are a lot of contradictions going on here.

I have met many older guys who have younger families, complain about Thailand this Thailand that, behavior of Thais etc..and then when you ask what school the kid goes to its the local ( usually catholic school upcountry).

Then when you state the obvious that their kids will take on these characteristic that they are so fond of complaining about, they come out with the " my kid is different"..and the wife is driving a nice car!

Is it an excuse to live in Thailand but not be real! On any level!

Education is not something you f'--k about with, they have their lives in front if them, yours is mostly behind, even if you haven't been well educated yourself surely you realize the Importance of it even more for your children.

That said it does take money.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

i agree in pricipal, but i also believe parent imput and encouragement do make a big difference,

if u not give a hoot about them, yes they will be bums.

but at least if u try, then maybee they will become better than urself, and really thats every parents inner dream. for them to have an easier and better life then oneself.

With the world economy, employment, education and pensions the way they have become, I doubt anyone will have a better life than we have. The future just doesn't look that good for new earners.

A more positive outlook on that situation would be that with the world economy, employment and education what they have become it is even more important than ever to make sure they have the best opportunities.

You have totally bought into the western middle class dream.

Which is what your government programmed you to do.

[ericnoodeeka]

i agree in pricipal, but i also believe parent imput and encouragement do make a big difference,

if u not give a hoot about them, yes they will be bums.

but at least if u try, then maybee they will become better than urself, and really thats every parents inner dream. for them to have an easier and better life then oneself.

With the world economy, employment, education and pensions the way they have become, I doubt anyone will have a better life than we have. The future just doesn't look that good for new earners.

although i agree with ur view of the world today, it can never be an excuse to stop trying to give ur babies the best chance.

i would and will give up my easy life in los to go and give them that chance, and if it means im cold in the winter, well so be it.

[Kananga]

Do you honestly think your child that went on to be a successful doctor would have been able to if they had been educated in the thai system? The majority of thai doctors in private healthcare in Thailand were educated in the west.

You are wrong, 95% of doctors in Thailand attended Thai government schools.

If you had the money to educate your kids in the west, you wouldn't want them working as doctors in Thailand.

That would be considered a total failure.

I said doctors in private healthcare.

As for having the money to educate your children in the west, most countries have free education. You would just have to give up sitting on your porch drinking leo every night which you are obviously unwilling to do for them.

[Kananga]

i agree in pricipal, but i also believe parent imput and encouragement do make a big difference,

if u not give a hoot about them, yes they will be bums.

but at least if u try, then maybee they will become better than urself, and really thats every parents inner dream. for them to have an easier and better life then oneself.

With the world economy, employment, education and pensions the way they have become, I doubt anyone will have a better life than we have. The future just doesn't look that good for new earners.

A more positive outlook on that situation would be that with the world economy, employment and education what they have become it is even more important than ever to make sure they have the best opportunities.

You have totally bought into the western middle class dream.

Which is what your government programmed you to do.

How exactly is wanting to provide the best education for my children and seeing the importance of a good education a middle class dream which was programmed into me by my government???

What a strange thing to say.

[rayongchelsea]

i agree in pricipal, but i also believe parent imput and encouragement do make a big difference,

if u not give a hoot about them, yes they will be bums.

but at least if u try, then maybee they will become better than urself, and really thats every parents inner dream. for them to have an easier and better life then oneself.

With the world economy, employment, education and pensions the way they have become, I doubt anyone will have a better life than we have. The future just doesn't look that good for new earners.

A more positive outlook on that situation would be that with the world economy, employment and education what they have become it is even more important than ever to make sure they have the best opportunities.

You have totally bought into the western middle class dream.

Which is what your government programmed you to do.

What nonsense..so when did this middle class dream start..

You buy into the notion that someone who is better educated on the whole has more advantages than someone who doesn't..that has been the truth thru the ages and that education is a good thing and not just a western concept..

What they do with that education is up to them, but any parent, anywhere will want their kids educated and as a consequence have a better life, whatever " their" dream is..not necessarily western.

[lazygourmet]

Home? Let me think: born in Germany, raised in Kenya, hotel school in Switzerland, stints in Luxembourg, Dubai, China, 20 years in SE Asia. Darn, I don't know where home is!

Ditto...

Born in Zaire, raised as an "enfant-terrible" in numerous Belgian and French boarding schools, Lausanne Hotel School, 10 years of f&b management around the world...and the last 20 years around SE-Asia.

Home is where my suitcase is...

[ericnoodeeka]

i agree, i had an operation in bangkok hospital in bkk. my surgeon did go to a thai uni, but then did 7 year in germany before he could work in there.

and i must say, i got the best care i could ever have dreamed of.so if he only did thai uni and not went abroad, he would be in a thai general hospital.

im not saying in there they dont care, but the expertise just isnt there, and the funds for that matter.

[GuestHouse]

PS

Good education = earning mediocrity

The biggest earners and self made millionaires usually have very little education.

Your advice will likely turn your children into middle class wage slaves, struggling their whole lives for nothing.

Like 0.00001% of the world's population who have very little education wind up being millionaires.

Can you tell us what percentage of people with very little education live their life in poverty, ill health and struggle on to an early grave?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

How exactly is wanting to provide the best education for my children and seeing the importance of a good education a middle class dream which was programmed into me by my government???

What a strange thing to say.

You are clearly unhappy with your life and living through hopes for your children.

Your children will know you are unhappy and in their turn will live an unhappy life.

The western middle class dream is to learn more, earn more and spend more.

It is just a dream because it just perpetuates a lifestyle of greed and unhappiness.

Most of the truly happy people I know own very little, earn very little, have a poor educational level but enjoy their life to the full.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

PS

Good education = earning mediocrity

The biggest earners and self made millionaires usually have very little education.

Your advice will likely turn your children into middle class wage slaves, struggling their whole lives for nothing.

Like 0.00001% of the world's population who have very little education wind up being millionaires.

Can you tell us what percentage of people with very little education live their life in poverty, ill health and struggle on to an early grave?

I don't believe money is all that important.

And if you are a man in the west some woman will take it away from you anyway.

The best way to defeat the western government game, is to not play it in the first place.

[stiggy]

Do you honestly think your child that went on to be a successful doctor would have been able to if they had been educated in the thai system? The majority of thai doctors in private healthcare in Thailand were educated in the west.

You are wrong, 95% of doctors in Thailand attended Thai government schools.

If you had the money to educate your kids in the west, you wouldn't want them working as doctors in Thailand.

That would be considered a total failure.

Something to back this up please, I worked in Thai healthcare (private as Kanaga stated and is referring to) for 8+ years, I still consult for a very large hospital group.

Heads of department and medical specialists are mostly educated overseas.Your rural quacks and village Drs are generally educated in the Thai system, hence they are nothing more than official witch Drs, or bossy Nurses with a certificate that states DR in a lot of cases.

Why also a total failure? In some areas Thailand's Drs lead the world, HIV treatment ,dengue research, Cosmetic surgery, being 3 I can think off.If Private Health care here is so bad, why does most of Asia and a huge percentage of middle eastern patients come here for treatment.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Why also a total failure? In some areas Thailand's Drs lead the world, HIV treatment ,dengue research, Cosmetic surgery, being 3 I can think off.If Private Health care here is so bad, why does most of Asia and a huge percentage of middle eastern patients come here for treatment.

Being a doctor is a poorly paid job in most, if not all, countries. Off shore oil workers generally earn much more.

Most of the wealthy actually think working for a living is demeaning.

Edited September 7, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Kananga]

How exactly is wanting to provide the best education for my children and seeing the importance of a good education a middle class dream which was programmed into me by my government???

What a strange thing to say.

You are clearly unhappy with your life and living through hopes for your children.

Your children will know you are unhappy and in their turn will live an unhappy life.

The western middle class dream is to learn more, earn more and spend more.

It is just a dream because it just perpetuates a lifestyle of greed and unhappiness.

Most of the truly happy people I know own very little, earn very little, have a poor educational level but enjoy their life to the full.

How on earth have you come to the conclusion that I am unhappy with my life?

Surely the more you earn the more places on the planet you can travel to, to experience other cultures and different ways of life and have a more open mind. To be better educated means to be able to make better decisions on your health, your children's health and to provide a more comfortable homestead for them. Seems to me a better option than living on a dusty tin roof farm in blissful ignorance while your teeth all fall out and you pray to some imaginary god for better luck in the next life. Surely its better to provide your children with the means to not live like that if they dont share your peasant sentiment instead of condemning them to that life too without giving them a chance to do more with their lives.

Anyway, you are not going to convince me that doing the most for my children is a bad thing, and your opinion is in the firm minority here for a good reason.

[OldChinaHam]

How exactly is wanting to provide the best education for my children and seeing the importance of a good education a middle class dream which was programmed into me by my government???

What a strange thing to say.

You are clearly unhappy with your life and living through hopes for your children.

Your children will know you are unhappy and in their turn will live an unhappy life.

The western middle class dream is to learn more, earn more and spend more.

It is just a dream because it just perpetuates a lifestyle of greed and unhappiness.

Most of the truly happy people I know own very little, earn very little, have a poor educational level but enjoy their life to the full.

And, the highest educational level you attained is?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

How on earth have you come to the conclusion that I am unhappy with my life?

Because you have never once posted that happiness is important, or you are happy.

You also say you live in the UK, that country doesn't (to me) seem to produce much happiness.

[Kananga]

PS

Good education = earning mediocrity

The biggest earners and self made millionaires usually have very little education.

Your advice will likely turn your children into middle class wage slaves, struggling their whole lives for nothing.

Like 0.00001% of the world's population who have very little education wind up being millionaires.

Can you tell us what percentage of people with very little education live their life in poverty, ill health and struggle on to an early grave?

I don't believe money is all that important.

And if you are a man in the west some woman will take it away from you anyway.

The best way to defeat the western government game, is to not play it in the first place.

Yeah, because Thai women aren't known to rip off people are they.

There is no western government game. You are just trying to find someone to blame for the bad choices you made in life that have put you in this impoverished situation you find yourself in.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

And, the highest educational level you attained is?

Masters Degree in Law (LL.M.)

Edited September 7, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[GuestHouse]

How exactly is wanting to provide the best education for my children and seeing the importance of a good education a middle class dream which was programmed into me by my government???

What a strange thing to say.

You are clearly unhappy with your life and living through hopes for your children.

Your children will know you are unhappy and in their turn will live an unhappy life.

The western middle class dream is to learn more, earn more and spend more.

It is just a dream because it just perpetuates a lifestyle of greed and unhappiness.

Most of the truly happy people I know own very little, earn very little, have a poor educational level but enjoy their life to the full.

AnpotherOneAmerican,

I think it is important to point something out.

Kanaga is British, you are an American - British and American definitions of middle class are completely different, so different that they basically do not understand each other when discussing the subject.

As you rightly observe, American middle class is defined by income and a consumer life style (you are incorrect to say this is a government generated dream - it is intact generated by the banks and corporations).

British definitions of middle class have almost nothing to do with income or consumerism patterns. British middle class is defined by aspiration, education and by participation in a set of values - a rejection of consumerism is a defining characteristic of British Middle Class.

To put this in perspective, a British person who works in finance earning £150,000 living in a five bedroom house in a desirable neighbourhood, with a bunch of top of the range cars on the drive and the house full of all the most desirable consumer goods would not necessarily be middle class.

Where as a little old lady, educated at Oxford, who lives in a rented apartment, earns £35,000 a year, teaches for a living, owns a bicycle but no car, and buys all her clothes at charity shops almost certainly would be Middle Class.

So you are right, your view of middle class is income and consumption - and that is a treadmill that anyone might want to get off - but you are wrong in believing the government are enslaving you - No, you have believed the adverts the corporate world sold you and you enslaved yourself.

And Kanaga's right, he wants the best education for his family and a set of values which he knows will serve his children well in life - no doubt he has noticed the American consumer definition of a good middle class life is rapidly worming itself into Thailand.....

[GuestHouse]

And, the highest educational level you attained is?

Masters Degree in Law.

It doesn't show.

[Kananga]

How on earth have you come to the conclusion that I am unhappy with my life?

Because you have never once posted that happiness is important, or you are happy.

You also say you live in the UK, that country doesn't (to me) seem to produce much happiness.

<deleted>? You never once posted that you dont like dressing up in womens underwear. Does that mean you are a secret transexual?

I never said I lived in the UK either. Although I have many friends and family that do and they are all much happier and better off than my Thai family are. That paranoid western middle class government super dream plan must actually be working. LOL