EDITORIAL
Learning to understand what democracy really means
The Nation

All of us, politicians and public alike, must change our view of power and responsibility if we are ever to heal the wounds caused by the political divide

BANGKOK: -- The recently concluded gathering of well-known international figures and leaders at the government's reconciliation forum didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. Nevertheless, it was refreshing and encouraging to hear various ideas being tossed about, because it reminds us of the great challenges ahead, and that there is hope for a peaceful outcome to Thailand's predicament.

The speakers talked about the notion of a shared destiny, something that is currently hard to see for people on either side of the political colour-coded divide.

But if we work hard enough and dig deeper into our hearts and souls, and put aside for a moment our selfish political and personal interests, we can imagine a shared destiny for the people of this country. The same goes for the Patani Malays in the southern border provinces.

Indeed, the red-yellow political chasm is not the only issue confronting Thailand. For a decade, Thailand's three southernmost provinces have suffered a bloody insurgency that has claimed more than 5,000 lives, and the end is nowhere in sight.

A number of speakers and participants touched on the southern insurgency but, unfortunately, few in the Thai media and society accredit the conflict much importance. Part of the reason could be that the insurgency - in spite of the human and financial cost - is deemed "too far from home", while our divisive politics is usually close to our front door.

There is also the matter of Thais being extremely nationalistic. Any challenge to the state-constructed historical narrative will not be tolerated. This explains why the state and society at large are indifferent to the historical grievances and mistrust of the government among the Patani Malays in the deep South. Because of our indifference, the only thing that registers in our minds is the belief that they want to separate from Thailand.

Speakers at the event came with a wealth of experience in dealing with ethnic violence in other countries. While the local context might be different, the guiding principle for peace is more or less the same. There has to be a sense of shared destiny, a sense of fairness, and an end to the zero-sum-game mentality.

But, judging from the conduct of our elected representatives, they have yet to let go of the idea of "winner takes all" democracy.

Democracy should be about more than who gets the most votes. And the public needs to be reminded that democracy is not a free ride. This means we as voters must hold accountable the people we elected to office. We shouldn't meet them only once every four years or so.

Democracy is about the institutions and check-and-balance mechanisms that took a beating when Thaksin Shinawatra came to power just over a decade ago. With his sister now in power, one can effectively say that Thailand is back where it was at the time Thaksin came into office. Yingluck Shinawatra's problem seems to be delivering on promises she made to her supporters.

But her brother abroad has yet to let go of the remote control. He is accused by some of being selfish. But can we blame him?

The real blame should be on all of us, because we as a society have yet to let go outdated mindsets. And as long as we cannot overcome our political differences, there will always be someone out there to exploit the situation.


-- The Nation 2013-09-06

The real blame should be on all of us, because we as a society have yet to let go outdated mindsets.

You reap what you sow. And at way above market prices if the rice scam scheme is anything to go by.

But if we work hard enough and dig deeper into our hearts and souls, and put aside for a moment our selfish political and personal interests,

Right.

The problem lies in the learning, those of us that have been raised , taught and experienced the western cultures of democracy, know full well, that the Thai system is both artificial and unworkable , you cannot have a mishmash of both cultures ,you either have one or the other, unfortunately the democracy that Thailand so keenly wants , will not come easy, you need to be educated ,, laws of the land need to be addressed in the democracy system and then there is those that do not want democracy, so they can chase their own agendas with impunity, i'm afraid the latter rules the country at this present time.

Thailand, in its present state, is very very far from any stretch of the imagination to considered a democracy.

"...But if we work hard enough and dig deeper into our hearts and souls, and put aside for a moment our selfish political and personal interests,..."

And hell freezes over...And Santa Claus is real...and peace is achieved in the middle east...and "How come my pipe is empty?"

But if we work hard enough and dig deeper into our hearts and souls, and put aside for a moment our selfish political and personal interests,

Right.

Look around you and tell me truth. Do you imagine there is even the slightest chance this could happen here...?

Learning about democracy is a forlorn hope with this government in power.

"............and put aside for a moment our selfish political and personal interests.........."

Yes, that would be the day in Thailand when hell freezes over.......................

The editorial said, "Democracy should be about more than who gets the most votes." What democratic country in the West could that be published in a newspaper?

The real blame should be on all of us, because we as a society have yet to let go outdated mindsets. And as long as we cannot overcome our political differences, there will always be someone out there to exploit the situation.

Political differences aren't the problem, Outdated mindsets are the problem. Education with the goal of creating strong, independent critical thinkers who are aware of themselves as cogs in a greater societal machine and that government is simply a tool with which to ensure the welfare of those in the society is what they should be shooting for. Teaching people that the moral and ethical cost of selling out your vote to the highest bidder is always a negative return situation. Corrupt politicians, police, and elites only have as much power as the people allow them to have due to their fear, ignorance, and apathy.

"You let one ant stand up to us, then they all might stand up. Those puny little ants outnumber us a hundred to one. And if they ever figure that out, there goes our way of life! It's not about food. It's about keeping those ants in line."

The editorial said, "Democracy should be about more than who gets the most votes." What democratic country in the West could that be published in a newspaper?

Sorry, I'm a bit confused as to your point here. Have we not often times debated such ideas as, " counting heads, rather than what is in the heads" as an issue in democracy? Have we not debated and continue to debate the "tyranny of the majority"? In what democratic country would you not find such an idea as the one quoted? Methinks, perhaps, I miss your point or your reading of history differs from my own humble study.

The editorial said, "Democracy should be about more than who gets the most votes." What democratic country in the West could that be published in a newspaper?

Sorry, I'm a bit confused as to your point here. Have we not often times debated such ideas as, " counting heads, rather than what is in the heads" as an issue in democracy? Have we not debated and continue to debate the "tyranny of the majority"? In what democratic country would you not find such an idea as the one quoted? Methinks, perhaps, I miss your point or your reading of history differs from my own humble study.

GOOD POST. The tyranny of the majority was the slogan of the South during the American Civil War. Millions killed. 50,000 killed in Three days at Gettysburg. The South lost. The majority even if a tyranny wins. Coups are bad. Elections are good. That is what the American Civil War was about. When Lincoln was assassinated Booth shouted, "Death to Tyrants". Didn't make any difference the South lost and Democracy won.

Democracy in name only. You know a tree by it's fruits, and this one has rotten fruit. Yellow or red: two dogs fighting over a bone to eat (The Thai people, in this case). People get the government they deserve, and most are too short sighted, self interested and brainwashed to get anything else. Those that want to change things for the better usually get shot anyway...

I was teaching a history course in Thailand when I mentioned that one of the most important elements of democracy was freedom of the press and the absence of censorship. One would have thought I was advocating murder or rape or poisen gas bombs. Boy did they tell me that, Thais were not ready for that kind of democracy.

Glad to be on this forum, some really interesting topics and great comments!!!

The editorial said, "Democracy should be about more than who gets the most votes." What democratic country in the West could that be published in a newspaper?

The bit "they have yet to let go of the idea of "winner takes all" democracy." seems to sum up the requirements for the Thai version of democracy.

Not sure why reference is made to other democratic countries, unless its the usual playground chant 'they did it first so it's ok if we do the same'

Democracy in name only. You know a tree by it's fruits, and this one has rotten fruit. Yellow or red: two dogs fighting over a bone to eat (The Thai people, in this case). People get the government they deserve, and most are too short sighted, self interested and brainwashed to get anything else. Those that want to change things for the better usually get shot anyway...

Thai democracy flourishes due to apathy. Corruption is a fact. I don't believe Thais have the will to fix things which are broken - Mai Ben drie..............

The editorial said, "Democracy should be about more than who gets the most votes." What democratic country in the West could that be published in a newspaper?

Sorry, I'm a bit confused as to your point here. Have we not often times debated such ideas as, " counting heads, rather than what is in the heads" as an issue in democracy? Have we not debated and continue to debate the "tyranny of the majority"? In what democratic country would you not find such an idea as the one quoted? Methinks, perhaps, I miss your point or your reading of history differs from my own humble study.

GOOD POST. The tyranny of the majority was the slogan of the South during the American Civil War. Millions killed. 50,000 killed in Three days at Gettysburg. The South lost. The majority even if a tyranny wins. Coups are bad. Elections are good. That is what the American Civil War was about. When Lincoln was assassinated Booth shouted, "Death to Tyrants". Didn't make any difference the South lost and Democracy won.

Why was the last coup bad? It restored democracy - sounds like a good outcome which the elected politicians couldn't achieve.

The problem lies in the learning, those of us that have been raised , taught and experienced the western cultures of democracy, know full well, that the Thai system is both artificial and unworkable , you cannot have a mishmash of both cultures ,you either have one or the other, unfortunately the democracy that Thailand so keenly wants , will not come easy, you need to be educated ,, laws of the land need to be addressed in the democracy system and then there is those that do not want democracy, so they can chase their own agendas with impunity, i'm afraid the latter rules the country at this present time.

Indeed. Without a functioning impartial Legal system nothing functions'

The problem lies in the learning, those of us that have been raised , taught and experienced the western cultures of democracy, know full well, that the Thai system is both artificial and unworkable , you cannot have a mishmash of both cultures ,you either have one or the other, unfortunately the democracy that Thailand so keenly wants , will not come easy, you need to be educated ,, laws of the land need to be addressed in the democracy system and then there is those that do not want democracy, so they can chase their own agendas with impunity, i'm afraid the latter rules the country at this present time.

The problem is that even in fully "developed" democracies, people get uneducated very quickly once government gets in the business of handing out money. Pretty much the same thing goes for the mentality that foreigners are there to be exploited. It's like drug addiction. Once people become dependent on these things, they'll never want to go back to self-reliance and the need to be productive, neither as individuals nor as groups & organizations, and governments can then lead them around by the nose.

Glad to be on this forum, some really interesting topics and great comments!!!

Wellcome.

too much heat not enough light methinks we just had a group of foreign leaders/intellectuals invited over by the government, but boycotted by the Dems, talking about reconciliation.

No matter let's just return to the basics and it all boils down to one man;Thaskin.

Really?

This is the fundemental only reason for this political party, the Dems, to exist to oppose one man,Thaksin.

Oh really

How many thai visa respondents really believe this?

The editorial said, "Democracy should be about more than who gets the most votes." What democratic country in the West could that be published in a newspaper?

The bit "they have yet to let go of the idea of "winner takes all" democracy." seems to sum up the requirements for the Thai version of democracy.

Not sure why reference is made to other democratic countries, unless its the usual playground chant 'they did it first so it's ok if we do the same'

What is the point in being pee if you don't have the power to tell Nong what to do. Democracy grants conditional power. Thai culture doesn't deal in conditional power only absolute.

The editorial said, "Democracy should be about more than who gets the most votes." What democratic country in the West could that be published in a newspaper?

The bit "they have yet to let go of the idea of "winner takes all" democracy." seems to sum up the requirements for the Thai version of democracy.

Not sure why reference is made to other democratic countries, unless its the usual playground chant 'they did it first so it's ok if we do the same'

What is the point in being pee if you don't have the power to tell Nong what to do. Democracy grants conditional power. Thai culture doesn't deal in conditional power only absolute.

Have you been listening to my wife? She is pee and expects to be treated as pee by her 2 Nong Sao.

Thai culture has a lot to answer for as many threads are starting to show

Edited September 7, 201312 yr by Noistar

The editorial said, "Democracy should be about more than who gets the most votes." What democratic country in the West could that be published in a newspaper?

The bit "they have yet to let go of the idea of "winner takes all" democracy." seems to sum up the requirements for the Thai version of democracy.

Not sure why reference is made to other democratic countries, unless its the usual playground chant 'they did it first so it's ok if we do the same'

What is the point in being pee if you don't have the power to tell Nong what to do. Democracy grants conditional power. Thai culture doesn't deal in conditional power only absolute.

Have you been listening to my wife? She is pee and expects to be treated as pee by her 2 Nong Sao.

Thai culture has a lot to answer for as many threads are starting to show

How many unions base decisions on seniority? How many parliaments or other legislative bodies base decisions on seniority? How many countries have age rules when electing a leader?

Pee indeed!