PM Cameron to make British welfare off limits to migrants

[samran]

I'm glad I kept my Australian residency over the years.

The lucky country and now that Labor have been turfed out more so.

meh. A bit rich banging on about others not fitting in when you've not bothered to take out Australian citizenship yourself? Pot, kettle and all that good stuff.

Romanians with nothing and camping on the British War Museum lawns have just been evicted and put on the streets. Free transport has been offered, payed by the UK tax payer, to take them back to their homeland.

Hold on, immigrants are either living high off the hog getting all sorts of benefits and housing, or they are living rough with no money and no-where to go.

So which one is it?

Or is it neither, and you'll just take any opportunity to have a migrant bash?

[transam]

I'm glad I kept my Australian residency over the years.

The lucky country and now that Labor have been turfed out more so.

meh. A bit rich banging on about others not fitting in when you've not bothered to take out Australian citizenship yourself? Pot, kettle and all that good stuff.

Romanians with nothing and camping on the British War Museum lawns have just been evicted and put on the streets. Free transport has been offered, payed by the UK tax payer, to take them back to their homeland.

Hold on, immigrants are either living high off the hog getting all sorts of benefits and housing, or they are living rough with no money and no-where to go.

So which one is it?

Or is it neither, and you'll just take any opportunity to have a migrant bash?

Both. The mindset of half the planet is go to the place where ''the streets are paved with gold'', those that that have got a foothold tell them this. For many it comes true as they come from streets paved with crap. Many get here and find stuff is not what they expected OR promised. The problem is getting them out, with all this human rights shit.

I am holding back some instances of stuff I know for later.

[samran]

Both. The mindset of half the planet is go to the place where ''the streets are paved with gold'', those that that have got a foothold tell them this. For many it comes true as they come from streets paved with crap. Many get here and find stuff is not what they expected OR promised. The problem is getting them out, with all this human rights shit.

I am holding back some instances of stuff I know for later.

Why would they be living on the street when there are all these goodies for them to get? You haven't explained that.

Also, why exactly, are human rights 'shit'?

[transam]

Both. The mindset of half the planet is go to the place where ''the streets are paved with gold'', those that that have got a foothold tell them this. For many it comes true as they come from streets paved with crap. Many get here and find stuff is not what they expected OR promised. The problem is getting them out, with all this human rights shit.

I am holding back some instances of stuff I know for later.

Why would they be living on the street when there are all these goodies for them to get? You haven't explained that.

Also, why exactly, are human rights 'shit'?

You fail to see that 500,000 folk that are ''lost'' in the UK , working or begging for cash in hand, no input to the UK coffers at all, but using the EU thing to milk the UK. This present gov has finally seen the stupidity of the UK gov's that allowed the situation to happen. Don't deny it, the do good-er gov's have been ripped off by those who have learned stuff, and are laughing.

Human rights, did I not read somewhere that the UK wants to get out of the HR thing cos it was to difficult to remove undesirables ?

Edited September 13, 2013 by transam

[samran]

Both. The mindset of half the planet is go to the place where ''the streets are paved with gold'', those that that have got a foothold tell them this. For many it comes true as they come from streets paved with crap. Many get here and find stuff is not what they expected OR promised. The problem is getting them out, with all this human rights shit.

I am holding back some instances of stuff I know for later.

Why would they be living on the street when there are all these goodies for them to get? You haven't explained that.

Also, why exactly, are human rights 'shit'?

You fail to see that 500,000 folk that are ''lost'' in the UK , working or begging for cash in hand, no input to the UK coffers at all, but using the EU thing to milk the UK. This present gov has finally seen the stupidity of the UK gov's that allowed the situation to happen. Don't deny it, the do good-er gov's have been ripped off by those who have learned stuff, and are laughing.

Human rights, did I not read somewhere that the UK wants to get out of the HR thing cos it was to difficult to remove undesirables ?

Hold on. So they are 'working'. And paying their taxes in the UK...or are they all doing cash in hand jobs...and you have evidence of this, how?

And even if they were doing cash in hand (highly unlikely for most of them), they'd still be spending money in the UK, paying VAT etc.

And how is it they are in the UK illegally? They've got access to EU treaty rights. They are there lawfully. So what you want to do is deport them cause you don't like the look of them. Is that basically it?

So you'd get rid of human rights legislation, just for that?

[transam]

, UK folk are taxed 25% + and paying VAT on top, so you are saying it's OK to work cash in hand when they pay VAT. .

OK, hers No.1. Few years back now. UK guy has all Polish staff running his business. Cash in hand. He and they pay no tax or NI for the staff. He provides a flat for them ALL to live in free, the flat is an investment.

Are you now going to call me a liar and want a link,? Noooooooooo link. Just my stuff from a guy on the ground.

Do you want No.2 ............?

[samran]

, UK folk are taxed 25% + and paying VAT on top, so you are saying it's OK to work cash in hand when they pay VAT. .

OK, hers No.1. Few years back now. UK guy has all Polish staff running his business. Cash in hand. He and they pay no tax or NI for the staff. He provides a flat for them ALL to live in free, the flat is an investment.

Are you now going to call me a liar and want a link,? Noooooooooo link. Just my stuff from a guy on the ground.

Do you want No.2 ............?

I've never said that working without paying tax and just VAT is 'okay'. Stop putting words in my mouth. It is the equivalent to saying that all those tossers down in Pattaya are somehow saving Thailand's economy when they buy their beers at 7-11 on their 3 month visits on dodgy visa runs.

Your statement, and I quote "no input to the UK coffers at all" is clearly wrong. I was just rebutting that. They are contributing something, but not enough. And I'm sure no Brit would ever think of such a thing.

But what you are proposing is to tar all people with the same brush just because a few of their country men are doing the wrong thing.

So, if you care to type more carefully, perhaps we can have a better conversation? I mean, I think you are a right wing nutbag Transam, but one for some reason I have a soft spot for....

[transam]

, UK folk are taxed 25% + and paying VAT on top, so you are saying it's OK to work cash in hand when they pay VAT. .

OK, hers No.1. Few years back now. UK guy has all Polish staff running his business. Cash in hand. He and they pay no tax or NI for the staff. He provides a flat for them ALL to live in free, the flat is an investment.

Are you now going to call me a liar and want a link,? Noooooooooo link. Just my stuff from a guy on the ground.

Do you want No.2 ............?

I've never said that working without paying tax and just VAT is 'okay'. Stop putting words in my mouth. It is the equivalent to saying that all those tossers down in Pattaya are somehow saving Thailand's economy when they buy their beers at 7-11 on their 3 month visits on dodgy visa runs.

Your statement, and I quote "no input to the UK coffers at all" is clearly wrong. I was just rebutting that. They are contributing something, but not enough. And I'm sure no Brit would ever think of such a thing.

But what you are proposing is to tar all people with the same brush just because a few of their country men are doing the wrong thing.

So, if you care to type more carefully, perhaps we can have a better conversation? I mean, I think you are a right wing nutbag Transam, but one for some reason I have a soft spot for....

, thank you,, but I was in business a loooooooooooong time and learned a lot. I am nooooooooooo angel but learned a lot of how folk from not our shores have and are milking the system. Must add that my consultant for my problem was Italian and we became good friends privately.

[samran]

, UK folk are taxed 25% + and paying VAT on top, so you are saying it's OK to work cash in hand when they pay VAT. .

OK, hers No.1. Few years back now. UK guy has all Polish staff running his business. Cash in hand. He and they pay no tax or NI for the staff. He provides a flat for them ALL to live in free, the flat is an investment.

Are you now going to call me a liar and want a link,? Noooooooooo link. Just my stuff from a guy on the ground.

Do you want No.2 ............?

I've never said that working without paying tax and just VAT is 'okay'. Stop putting words in my mouth. It is the equivalent to saying that all those tossers down in Pattaya are somehow saving Thailand's economy when they buy their beers at 7-11 on their 3 month visits on dodgy visa runs.

Your statement, and I quote "no input to the UK coffers at all" is clearly wrong. I was just rebutting that. They are contributing something, but not enough. And I'm sure no Brit would ever think of such a thing.

But what you are proposing is to tar all people with the same brush just because a few of their country men are doing the wrong thing.

So, if you care to type more carefully, perhaps we can have a better conversation? I mean, I think you are a right wing nutbag Transam, but one for some reason I have a soft spot for....

, thank you,, but I was in business a loooooooooooong time and learned a lot. I am nooooooooooo angel but learned a lot of how folk from not our shores have and are milking the system. Must add that my consultant for my problem was Italian and we became good friends privately.

I don't need to know about your sex life...

Edited September 13, 2013 by samran

[7by7]

Transam, a short while back someone in a similar topic, can't remember who, complained about foreign workers being paid cash in hand, saying that they knew of many instances where it was happening.

When I pointed out that this was illegal and that they should report them to the authorities their comeback was that they are not a grass!

Have you reported the illegal workers that you know of to the relevant authorities?

Have you reported any instances you know of people claiming benefits to which they are not entitled to the relevant authorities?

Or are you going to hide behind the pathetic excuse that you are not a grass as well?

There is no need to be afraid of comebacks from the criminals; you can report them anonymously.

If you now of a crime being committed but do not report it, then you cannot complain about it happening.

Of course, many workers, especially in the building trade, appear to an outsider to be paid cash in hand when they are actually registered as self employed, the CIS for example, and do pay tax and NICs. But don't let facts like that deter you.

[transam]

Transam, a short while back someone in a similar topic, can't remember who, complained about foreign workers being paid cash in hand, saying that they knew of many instances where it was happening.

When I pointed out that this was illegal and that they should report them to the authorities their comeback was that they are not a grass!

Have you reported the illegal workers that you know of to the relevant authorities?

Have you reported any instances you know of people claiming benefits to which they are not entitled to the relevant authorities?

Or are you going to hide behind the pathetic excuse that you are not a grass as well?

There is no need to be afraid of comebacks from the criminals; you can report them anonymously.

If you now of a crime being committed but do not report it, then you cannot complain about it happening.

Of course, many workers, especially in the building trade, appear to an outsider to be paid cash in hand when they are actually registered as self employed, the CIS for example, and do pay tax and NICs. But don't let facts like that deter you.

Probably me, not a grass unless your or anyone's kids were involved. UK gov's have made a rod for the UK's back, UK folk on the ground have to endure those decision's. Sadly.

[simple1]

, UK folk are taxed 25% + and paying VAT on top, so you are saying it's OK to work cash in hand when they pay VAT. .

OK, hers No.1. Few years back now. UK guy has all Polish staff running his business. Cash in hand. He and they pay no tax or NI for the staff. He provides a flat for them ALL to live in free, the flat is an investment.

Are you now going to call me a liar and want a link,? Noooooooooo link. Just my stuff from a guy on the ground.

Do you want No.2 ............?

In your example above the UK national is committing fraud and exploitation of his workers. Should he not be accused of the greater abuse of the "system"? From my experience in Australia, the type of business owner you describe, deduct rent from the cash wages and make a substantial tax free profit from the property income in comparison to normal rental income. In addition the workers cash wage is way below take home pay in comparison to taxable net income.

[7by7]

Slough,Luton and Leicester are cities where the original population is now less than 50%.

Wisbech and Boston are overwhelmed with migrants from the former Eastern Bloc countries.

The fifth largest group of people not born in the UK living in London were born in the Republic of Ireland (source). The second largest group of European migrants behind those born in Poland.

I haven't been to the area for a while, but in the eighties there were areas of NW London, Kilburn, Cricklewood etc., which were over 90% Irish: and woe betide anyone in a pub in one of those areas who didn't put their hand in their pocket when the boys came round collecting for the IRA!

Many other large British cities have similarly large Irish populations.

How do you feel about them?

[transam]

Slough,Luton and Leicester are cities where the original population is now less than 50%.

Wisbech and Boston are overwhelmed with migrants from the former Eastern Bloc countries.

The fifth largest group of people not born in the UK living in London were born in the Republic of Ireland (source). The second largest group of European migrants behind those born in Poland.

I haven't been to the area for a while, but in the eighties there were areas of NW London, Kilburn, Cricklewood etc., which were over 90% Irish: and woe betide anyone in a pub in one of those areas who didn't put their hand in their pocket when the boys came round collecting for the IRA!

Many other large British cities have similarly large Irish populations.

How do you feel about them?

Must confess I consider them my countrymen. N or S Ireland. Am I wrong with my thought.? Worked with many in my early life.

[7by7]

If they are not from Northern Ireland but from the Republic, then they are not your countrymen; they are immigrants; many of whom work cash in hand!

Edit:

Personally I have nothing against legitimate Irish immigrants; the same as I have nothing against legitimate immigrants from anywhere else.

Edited September 13, 2013 by 7by7

[7by7]

Transam, a short while back someone in a similar topic, can't remember who, complained about foreign workers being paid cash in hand, saying that they knew of many instances where it was happening.

When I pointed out that this was illegal and that they should report them to the authorities their comeback was that they are not a grass!

Have you reported the illegal workers that you know of to the relevant authorities?

Have you reported any instances you know of people claiming benefits to which they are not entitled to the relevant authorities?

Or are you going to hide behind the pathetic excuse that you are not a grass as well?

There is no need to be afraid of comebacks from the criminals; you can report them anonymously.

If you now of a crime being committed but do not report it, then you cannot complain about it happening.

Of course, many workers, especially in the building trade, appear to an outsider to be paid cash in hand when they are actually registered as self employed, the CIS for example, and do pay tax and NICs. But don't let facts like that deter you.

Probably me, not a grass unless your or anyone's kids were involved. UK gov's have made a rod for the UK's back, UK folk on the ground have to endure those decision's. Sadly.

As I have repeatedly said, the rules and laws ae already in place making such practices illegal.

But the governments various enforcement agencies cannot be everywhere, cannot watch everyone (and who here would want them to?), so they rely on honest people, citizens and non citizens to report the lawbreakers.

Bit too many people are like you; happy to sit on their arse and complain, but totally unwilling to do a simple thing like pick up a phone or click on a mouse.

Sadly.

[transam]

Transam, a short while back someone in a similar topic, can't remember who, complained about foreign workers being paid cash in hand, saying that they knew of many instances where it was happening.

When I pointed out that this was illegal and that they should report them to the authorities their comeback was that they are not a grass!

Have you reported the illegal workers that you know of to the relevant authorities?

Have you reported any instances you know of people claiming benefits to which they are not entitled to the relevant authorities?

Or are you going to hide behind the pathetic excuse that you are not a grass as well?

There is no need to be afraid of comebacks from the criminals; you can report them anonymously.

If you now of a crime being committed but do not report it, then you cannot complain about it happening.

Of course, many workers, especially in the building trade, appear to an outsider to be paid cash in hand when they are actually registered as self employed, the CIS for example, and do pay tax and NICs. But don't let facts like that deter you.

Probably me, not a grass unless your or anyone's kids were involved. UK gov's have made a rod for the UK's back, UK folk on the ground have to endure those decision's. Sadly.

As I have repeatedly said, the rules and laws ae already in place making such practices illegal.

But the governments various enforcement agencies cannot be everywhere, cannot watch everyone (and who here would want them to?), so they rely on honest people, citizens and non citizens to report the lawbreakers.

Bit too many people are like you; happy to sit on their arse and complain, but totally unwilling to do a simple thing like pick up a phone or click on a mouse.

Sadly.

You don't know what I do with a mouse....................BUT, I do not constantly defend ''visitors'' to the UK shores as an asset to the UK populous.

[7by7]

I'm not sure exactly who that remark is addressed to or what it means.

But my own position has been made quite clear throughout this topic.

Those who qualify, whatever category they come under, are welcome; especially as the vast majority come to work and contribute or as the spouse or partner of someone who is doing so.

Those who break the rules are not welcome.

I do not judge people by their nationality or the colour of their skin.

[transam]

I'm not sure exactly who that remark is addressed to or what it means.

But my own position has been made quite clear throughout this topic.

Those who qualify, whatever category they come under, are welcome; especially as the vast majority come to work and contribute or as the spouse or partner of someone who is doing so.

Those who break the rules are not welcome.

I do not judge people by their nationality or the colour of their skin.

Nor do I, as my Caribbean chums of near 30 years would testify.

[7by7]

So, you approve of Australian immigrants, Irish immigrants and Caribbean immigrants (BTW, not all people from the Caribbean are black, but I assume that's what you meant).

For the sake of clarity, can you tell us what nationalities you disapprove of; or would your approved list be shorter?

Edited September 13, 2013 by 7by7

[transam]

So, you approve of Australian immigrants, Irish immigrants and Caribbean immigrants (BTW, not all people from the Caribbean are black, but I assume that's what you meant).

For the sake of clarity, can you tell us what nationalities you disapprove of; or would your approved list be shorter?

You seem transfixed about colour, I am not. I am tranfixed about spongers of ANY nationality milking the UK system. THAT IS IT. LOS folk are milking the UK system too, is that a shock to you ?............... . Folk who have NEVER given but have worked out, by those before, how to do it. If you want to protect these folk that is up to you, BUT l will always be here to defend what dad and me fought for. NOT to take care of the worlds spongers.

[7by7]

Show me one post of mine which has any suggestion of protecting spongers.

What I have said, and you and others seem incapable of understanding, is:-

• An immigrants access to benefits, whether they are from inside or outside the EEA, is already extremely limited, or even non existent.
• The vast majority of immigrants are not here to sponge off the state; they are here to work, study, are the family members of these or the spouses and partners of British citizens.
• Those who do enter the UK in the expectation of free hand outs will be severely disappointed.
• There are more British than immigrants claiming state benefits; how many of them are spongers, I wonder.

I don't know what you and your dad both fought to defend; but I hope it was the rights and freedoms millions of others, British and from the old empire, fought, and many died, for.

It seems from all your posts that you only want to extend those rights and freedoms to those you approve of; they should be available to all.

No one here is defending spongers.

Well actually; you are.

You claim to know of real examples, but your refusal to do anything about it, using the pathetic "I'm no grass" excuse, means that it is you who is making it easy for them to get away with it; you who is protecting them!

Do your duty as a citizen; help stop the spongers by reporting those you know about to the proper authorities.

[transam]

Show me one post of mine which has any suggestion of protecting spongers.

What I have said, and you and others seem incapable of understanding, is:-

• An immigrants access to benefits, whether they are from inside or outside the EEA, is already extremely limited, or even non existent.
• The vast majority of immigrants are not here to sponge off the state; they are here to work, study, are the family members of these or the spouses and partners of British citizens.
• Those who do enter the UK in the expectation of free hand outs will be severely disappointed.
• There are more British than immigrants claiming state benefits; how many of them are spongers, I wonder.

I don't know what you and your dad both fought to defend; but I hope it was the rights and freedoms millions of others, British and from the old empire, fought, and many died, for.

It seems from all your posts that you only want to extend those rights and freedoms to those you approve of; they should be available to all.

No one here is defending spongers.

Well actually; you are.

You claim to know of real examples, but your refusal to do anything about it, using the pathetic "I'm no grass" excuse, means that it is you who is making it easy for them to get away with it; you who is protecting them!

Do your duty as a citizen; help stop the spongers by reporting those you know about to the proper authorities.

Twisting stuff yet again to suit your one way thoughts. You carry on, the reader is the important one here.

[giggles]

if theres 400,000 immigrants on benefits theyre more likely to be families as they cant be refused benefits if they have large numbers of kids which has happened .

A Romanian family with 7 kids got full bennys as was seen in the press . the single guys sleeping rough around london are likely to find it harder to get bennys. The lib dem home office minister is now saying they can all come here next year without any hindrance !

[sustento]

, UK folk are taxed 25% + and paying VAT on top, so you are saying it's OK to work cash in hand when they pay VAT. .

20% actually.

[transam]

, UK folk are taxed 25% + and paying VAT on top, so you are saying it's OK to work cash in hand when they pay VAT. .

20% actually.

Sorry, Yes for starters, 20% but if you earn over 35000 PA it goes up to 40%, over 150000 45%. etc.

[Scott]

The topic is about welfare benefits for migrants. If you are going to discuss taxation, then please do so in the context of how it impacts the welfare benefits for migrants.

[Jay Sata]

What I have said, and you and others seem incapable of understanding, is:-

• An immigrants access to benefits, whether they are from inside or outside the EEA, is already extremely limited, or even non existent.

Incorrect.

Big Issue sellers

Two years ago Adrian Oprea was living with his family in a ramshackle hut in a Romanian village with only a handful of farm animals to his name.

One thing stood in the way: when his homeland joined the European Union in 2007, Tony Blair’s government had pledged that unskilled migrants from the former Communist country would be restricted from working and claiming benefits in the UK.

But Mr Oprea’s friends told him of a loophole. By selling the Big Issue magazine on the streets, he could register as “self-employed” and gain access to benefits and rights to work for his family.

Now the 24-year-old immigrant lives in a brand new house in Manchester, with eight of his relatives, with the help of the British taxpayer.­­­­

All Big Issue sellers are required to declare themselves self-employed because they buy bundles of the magazine and keep the profits when they sell them.

This status entitles them to a National Insurance number and the right to claim welfare payments such as working tax credit and housing support, although not jobseekers allowance.

It also grants “dependent” family members the right to work legally in the UK – a right to which Romanian immigrants would not otherwise be entitled.

In April last year Mr Oprea was joined in Britain by his sister, Catalina, 26, and her six-year-old son, Valentin. Then in January this year Mr Oprea’s sister, Renata, 30, brother-in-law, Ionut Codrianu, 31, and their two daughters, Alexandra, 11 and Ana-Maria, 5, moved in with them.

Mr and Mrs Codrianu are now selling the Big Issue and have applied for benefits. If they are successful, the entire household is expected to receive just over £200 a week in child benefit and child tax credit – around £10,500 a year. Mr Oprea has also applied for housing benefit to help meet the £600 a month cost of renting the house.

Of the five adults in the family, all have applied for benefits apart from Catalina, who does not work.

Mr Oprea is the only member of the family who speaks English. He and his wife have now found better jobs – he works as a car wash attendant in Stockport and she works as a part-time cleaner. But he said that his two sisters and his brother-in-law were all “looking for work”, so far unsuccessfully.

[Totster]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2427633/Over-2million-UK-passports-handed-foreigners-2000-One-immigrant-British-citizen-half-minutes.html

totster

[7by7]

Sata, your, non accredited, quote does not prove my assertion incorrect; even if the quote is true.

Perhaps you should find someone to explain to you the difference between 'applied for' and 'receiving!'

Totser,

I have no idea whether or not those figures are correct, and to be honest can't be bothered to look them up from a source more reliable than Migrationwatch and the Daily Mail (even though such a source would not be hard to find).

So let's take them at face value.

My wife and step daughter and the spouses and family members of many other TV members are included in that figure. Maybe yours are, too.

Are you saying that none of them should have been allowed to become British?