Is Generator Power Safe ?

[Retired2]

We have a lot of electricity outages so I bought a Tiger 950 Portable Generator.

I assume that I have about 600 useable watts.

Is it safe to charge my Asus TF 101 ............ and/or operate my pc with it??

I don't know how stable this electric current is.

It has both 220 and 12 volt outlets.

Can I use it like an ordinary wall outlet ? (see photo)

[muratremix]

Tiger is a good brand and you can safely charge your devices.

[Langsuan Man]

I would be running a UPS between the generator and your devices, that way they will be operating / charging off of the stable battery power of the UPS

[Crossy]

+1 for Langsuan Man's post if you have a desktop PC, a UPS will save you when the genset runs out of juice just before you hit 'save'

If it's a laptop they're pretty robust with minor power fluctuations, just plug it in.

We run all our technology and lighting off the genset when the mains is off, but via an AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator) and a UPS for extra protection.

[Carl64]

I run a UPS. I have run pc's before on generators without a UPS. It totally fried my computer. The generator was supposed to be clean and suitable for a PC? A UPS gives you surge protector as well as battery time. You can also get them to save your work and shut down your computer when the battery has 15% power left. You will never loose your work and be protected. I think I paid 6000 baht and have had it for 3 years.

Run your phone line (Internet connection ) printers and any thing else that is connected via cable to your network. Then if you have a lightning strike or a massive surge everything will be safe. If you ran some items via a UPS with surge protection say your pc. But had a wired connection via your router to your pc that was not protected then a big surge can still get to your pc.

Mine has 5 plugs and a phone line imput/output.

Hope this helps.

[muratremix]

My Tiger 2.8KVA generator produces 220V clean electric. Because it generates AC and not DC, there is no Inverter (which affects quality of sinus wave in AC current) and safe to use.

However, I also do have a 1000VA APC/UPS (Around 4000 baht) and every sensitive piece of electronic is connected to UPS.

[metrox]

I have the same model, I use it from 2 years and I am satisfied, but I have to say that the current produced by those gasoline generators is of very poor quality, not stable, extremely variable voltage, I am not an electician but you can see it when you look at a lightbulb, I imagine that the voltage is constantely dancing from 150 to 240 v. Now its should not be a problem for most of the small, battery powered, or modern appliances such as LCD TV, phones tablets, etc.. I've even run a desktop pc without an UPS and it survived... Altrought it's highly recommanded to use an UPS, it's could be a little bit tricky. Let me explain, as you probably now, the role of this kind of device is to use his built'in battery and inverter to compensate power variations, then it stop consuming energy from the generator, in the meantime, the generator as a built-in throttle regulator that lower the speed of the motor when the demand is low. It result into a pumping effect betwenn the UPS and the genny, so the UPS constantely switch on and off and the motor RPMs goes up and down... (btw sorry for my poor english)

The ultimate solution is to buy an UPS that is compatible with generators, not entry levels like thoses you can find for 1000 or 2000 thb in computer shops, probably more expensive but it's the only solution. Of course, you will need an ups only for desktop computers if you have a laptop, it's useless because they have build-in battery, and the charger are variation tollerant.

[aliep]

We have a 2KVA pure sine-wave UPS on 48v 130Amp/Hr batteries to run the lighting/TV/Computer circuits for 5 hours (it has to be pure sine-wave for compact fluorescent or LED lighting) and a 6KVA Genset to run the Air Conditioning. There is an Automatic Voltage regulator in the mains circuit before power arrives at the house because we only get 190volts at 6pm which won't run the pumps, but it's not in the circuit for the genset which has it's own built in AVR. Unfortunately, the genset's AVR failed and pushed out over 300 volts and blew up the logic board in a Mitsubishi Inverter Air conditioning unit costing 7,000 baht to replace it.

I have learned now to check the voltage on the genset before I throw the circuit breaker and connect it to the house. I also wired up a contactor so when the mains power is restored, it disconnects the genset queing me to go and shut it down and throw the breaker to restore the house power.

My 6KVA genset will power 3 of 12,000 baht Air conditioning units as well as 3 refigerators and a deep freeze.

[rakman]

The other thing to worry about is carbon monoxide, it is a heavier than air gas that hugs the ground, so don't run it in a confined space where the fumes can build up and either make you very sick at best and dead at worst.

[jackflash]

There are various types of Portable Generator.

The simplest (and cheapest) have no voltage regulator, just an arrangement of boost and buck windings which attempt to regulate the output voltage depending on the current drawn. These work OK for simple tools but the voltage regulation isn't good, and the output frequency and voltage depends on the engine Revs.

Then there's the more complex generators which do have a built in voltage regulator. Some work well, some don't.

Again, the output frequency depends on the revs.

Both of these can generate huge voltage spikes (over voltage) each time a large load is disconnected (eg a washing machine on its wash cycle).

Then there's the more expensive Inverter based generators. These generate DC which is then converted to AC by an inbuilt Inverter.

It's equivalent to having an inbuilt UPS. I think it was Honda who first developed these. They are specifically marketed for powering computers, TVs and other sensitive electronics.

With the Inverter Generators, the output Frequency and Voltage are both tightly controlled by the electronics, and are unaffected by the engine revs or the load.

Because of this they can use a much lighter engine (smaller fly wheel), and can vary the revs dependent on the load, which cuts noise and greatly increases efficiency.

So if you want to run sensitive electronics, it is worth investigating the new Honda generators.

Or to be doubly sure, use an external UPS.

Edited September 7, 2013 by jackflash

[Raybo]

Jackflash has hit the nail on the head. I have a 7000 watt honda tha runs 2 freezers, 1 refrigertor ,a 5000 btu window unit.

I live in hurricane alley( Louisiana) and my Honda is rock steady when everything is cycling on and off.

I would imagine Thai power is not very stable either a good surge protector for sensitive equipment is a must.

ChuLai6768

[Bcgardener]

My company manufactures generators and I have worked in this industry for 30 years. A couple of points on generator power.

Most small generators use capacitor regulation which is not suitable for sensitive electronic equipment. Also their speed regulation is poor and speed determines frequency (Hz) so you end up with a frequency variation of +/- 5 Hz or worse, not good.

However Honda inverter generators, or other brands of inverter units use electronics to regulate Hz and voltage. You can run pretty much any electronic gear on these without a problem.

When I was in the generator rental business we had quite a few of these and never had a problem, even when running sophisticated professional film equipment including computers.

Larger generators have electronic engine governors and AVR's (voltage regulators) to control Hz and volts and are able to run computers and other electronic equipment without a problem.

Getting back to the OP's question, I would not run any electronic equipment on a small standard type petrol generator without a Ups in the line. The switch mode power supplies used on most electronic equipment are quite robust but switching on another large load to these generators will cause a large surge in both Hz and voltage which the power supply may not be able to deal with.

As with most things cost is a good guide. You can buy a small basic 3KVA petrol generator for about 15000 Baht but a 3KVA Honda inverter will be over 100K Baht. You get what you pay for!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[islandguy]

Be careful refueling a hot or in use generator or you may have more to worry about than your electronics Any comment, bcgardener?

[RigPig]

Haven't looked at UPS's for a while but there used to be 2 sorts, "online" and "standby". Online means the UPS batteries and other circuitry constantly, standby switched the power over VERY quickly when the mains went off. They were the cheaper of the 2 and may not "filter" the power as well as you want...just a thought

[ericthai]

My Tiger 2.8KVA generator produces 220V clean electric. Because it generates AC and not DC, there is no Inverter (which affects quality of sinus wave in AC current) and safe to use.

However, I also do have a 1000VA APC/UPS (Around 4000 baht) and every sensitive piece of electronic is connected to UPS.

Hate to tell you this but, most generators produce AC not DC. There are DC generators but these are small and used to devices that use DC. Having a large DC generator and converting it to AC is not efficient and would be much more expensive.

Also you have it backwards. An inverter type generator produces a clean AC output. Maybe the sales man gave you the wrong info.

A generator without a inverter can have issues if the RPM of the motor changes as this will cause the alternator to fluctuate producing unstable AC. However if you have an inverter type generator the electricity produced from the alternator is converted from AC into DC and then converts it back to AC. There is a microprocessor which monitors the engines speed and adjusts for changes in speed. These types of generators are good for powering computers and small appliances. TV, microwaves, refrigerators, small fans, etc. It's not good for large AC units, large motors or complete house. However here in Thailand it would be ok for complete house as the power consumption in most houses is low.

Having the UPS was a very good idea.

Note: when you start your generator it is a good idea to run it for 30+ minutes, running it only 10 minutes or so will cause carbon build up and reduce the life of your generator. You should also start and run the generator every 5-6 weeks as if it sits too long without use it is not good for it either. You should monitor your usage time and change the oil according to owners manual.

Just wanted to let you know this. I have a small generator at our factory and my workers never thought about changing the oil.

I though my maintenance guy would have known better, but My fault as I should have checked on this myself.

[Bcgardener]

Be careful refueling a hot or in use generator or you may have more to worry about than your electronics   Any comment, bcgardener?

Most of the generators I deal with are diesel but these small petrol sets have the tank usually on top of the engine so, yes, definitely agree. A hot exhaust and petrol are not a good mix. However I am sure that TV people have enough of money sense to realise this.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AlexRRR]

GET yourself a power board with anti surge, as a tradesman we are loath to use a generator, I have a couple of power tools that got a little extra.

[Naam]

The other thing to worry about is carbon monoxide, it is a heavier than air gas that hugs the ground, so don't run it in a confined space where the fumes can build up and either make you very sick at best and dead at worst.

do you think people exist who run a generator in their home?

[AlexRRR]

Yes people and businesses are known for running generators mostly for limited times due to unforeseen circumstances...common ...you have led a sheltered life.

[muratremix]

My Tiger 2.8KVA generator produces 220V clean electric. Because it generates AC and not DC, there is no Inverter (which affects quality of sinus wave in AC current) and safe to use.

However, I also do have a 1000VA APC/UPS (Around 4000 baht) and every sensitive piece of electronic is connected to UPS.

Hate to tell you this but, most generators produce AC not DC. There are DC generators but these are small and used to devices that use DC. Having a large DC generator and converting it to AC is not efficient and would be much more expensive.

Also you have it backwards. An inverter type generator produces a clean AC output. Maybe the sales man gave you the wrong info.

A generator without a inverter can have issues if the RPM of the motor changes as this will cause the alternator to fluctuate producing unstable AC. However if you have an inverter type generator the electricity produced from the alternator is converted from AC into DC and then converts it back to AC. There is a microprocessor which monitors the engines speed and adjusts for changes in speed. These types of generators are good for powering computers and small appliances. TV, microwaves, refrigerators, small fans, etc. It's not good for large AC units, large motors or complete house. However here in Thailand it would be ok for complete house as the power consumption in most houses is low.

Having the UPS was a very good idea.

Note: when you start your generator it is a good idea to run it for 30+ minutes, running it only 10 minutes or so will cause carbon build up and reduce the life of your generator. You should also start and run the generator every 5-6 weeks as if it sits too long without use it is not good for it either. You should monitor your usage time and change the oil according to owners manual.

Just wanted to let you know this. I have a small generator at our factory and my workers never thought about changing the oil.

I though my maintenance guy would have known better, but My fault as I should have checked on this myself.

I never said gensets produce DC electric. I said they generate AC. My UPS shows constant 220V input and voltmeter on generator also shows 220V output. Of course I haven't tried running heavy appliances like Airconditioner on this setup. I only run lights, fridge, tv and home theater.

Producing AC, Converting it into DC and back to AC seems like a very inefficient way (and expensive).

[ericthai]

My Tiger 2.8KVA generator produces 220V clean electric. Because it generates AC and not DC, there is no Inverter (which affects quality of sinus wave in AC current) and safe to use.

However, I also do have a 1000VA APC/UPS (Around 4000 baht) and every sensitive piece of electronic is connected to UPS.

Hate to tell you this but, most generators produce AC not DC. There are DC generators but these are small and used to devices that use DC. Having a large DC generator and converting it to AC is not efficient and would be much more expensive.

Also you have it backwards. An inverter type generator produces a clean AC output. Maybe the sales man gave you the wrong info.

A generator without a inverter can have issues if the RPM of the motor changes as this will cause the alternator to fluctuate producing unstable AC. However if you have an inverter type generator the electricity produced from the alternator is converted from AC into DC and then converts it back to AC. There is a microprocessor which monitors the engines speed and adjusts for changes in speed. These types of generators are good for powering computers and small appliances. TV, microwaves, refrigerators, small fans, etc. It's not good for large AC units, large motors or complete house. However here in Thailand it would be ok for complete house as the power consumption in most houses is low.

Having the UPS was a very good idea.

Note: when you start your generator it is a good idea to run it for 30+ minutes, running it only 10 minutes or so will cause carbon build up and reduce the life of your generator. You should also start and run the generator every 5-6 weeks as if it sits too long without use it is not good for it either. You should monitor your usage time and change the oil according to owners manual.

Just wanted to let you know this. I have a small generator at our factory and my workers never thought about changing the oil.

I though my maintenance guy would have known better, but My fault as I should have checked on this myself.

I never said gensets produce DC electric. I said they generate AC. My UPS shows constant 220V input and voltmeter on generator also shows 220V output. Of course I haven't tried running heavy appliances like Airconditioner on this setup. I only run lights, fridge, tv and home theater.

Producing AC, Converting it into DC and back to AC seems like a very inefficient way (and expensive).

I dont want to argue with you, but your statement "My Tiger 2.8KVA generator produces 220V clean electric. Because it generates AC and not DC" this refers that other generators produces DC. As for using an inverter to change the AC to DC and then back to AC it is actually more efficient as it monitors the load and the RPM of the motor and will adjust for heavier loads. It does cost more for a generator with an inverter. Also I meant no disrespect, just wanted to let you know that what you stated was not correct that a generator with an inverter produces clean AC one without an inverter does not.

[muratremix]

My Tiger 2.8KVA generator produces 220V clean electric. Because it generates AC and not DC, there is no Inverter (which affects quality of sinus wave in AC current) and safe to use.

However, I also do have a 1000VA APC/UPS (Around 4000 baht) and every sensitive piece of electronic is connected to UPS.

Hate to tell you this but, most generators produce AC not DC. There are DC generators but these are small and used to devices that use DC. Having a large DC generator and converting it to AC is not efficient and would be much more expensive.

Also you have it backwards. An inverter type generator produces a clean AC output. Maybe the sales man gave you the wrong info.

A generator without a inverter can have issues if the RPM of the motor changes as this will cause the alternator to fluctuate producing unstable AC. However if you have an inverter type generator the electricity produced from the alternator is converted from AC into DC and then converts it back to AC. There is a microprocessor which monitors the engines speed and adjusts for changes in speed. These types of generators are good for powering computers and small appliances. TV, microwaves, refrigerators, small fans, etc. It's not good for large AC units, large motors or complete house. However here in Thailand it would be ok for complete house as the power consumption in most houses is low.

Having the UPS was a very good idea.

Note: when you start your generator it is a good idea to run it for 30+ minutes, running it only 10 minutes or so will cause carbon build up and reduce the life of your generator. You should also start and run the generator every 5-6 weeks as if it sits too long without use it is not good for it either. You should monitor your usage time and change the oil according to owners manual.

Just wanted to let you know this. I have a small generator at our factory and my workers never thought about changing the oil.

I though my maintenance guy would have known better, but My fault as I should have checked on this myself.

I never said gensets produce DC electric. I said they generate AC. My UPS shows constant 220V input and voltmeter on generator also shows 220V output. Of course I haven't tried running heavy appliances like Airconditioner on this setup. I only run lights, fridge, tv and home theater.

Producing AC, Converting it into DC and back to AC seems like a very inefficient way (and expensive).

I dont want to argue with you, but your statement "My Tiger 2.8KVA generator produces 220V clean electric. Because it generates AC and not DC" this refers that other generators produces DC. As for using an inverter to change the AC to DC and then back to AC it is actually more efficient as it monitors the load and the RPM of the motor and will adjust for heavier loads. It does cost more for a generator with an inverter. Also I meant no disrespect, just wanted to let you know that what you stated was not correct that a generator with an inverter produces clean AC one without an inverter does not.

How in the earth my statement refers other gensets produce DC? I was merely comparing AC genset to battery - inverter -> ac combination (UPS). There are cheap and cheaper inverters that produce square sinus ac current which is not recommended for sensitive equipment. We're talking about gensets made for personal usage, not industrial or fail-safe genset systems so comparing apples to diamonds are a waste of time.

[AlexRRR]

Well you could always consult the manufactures website, even email customer service...

[jackflash]

muratremix,

> Producing AC, Converting it into DC and back to AC seems like a very inefficient way (and expensive).

As explained earlier, it is actually much more efficient and far cheaper for comparable performance:

The motor is smaller, the flywheel much lighter and the associated electronics use switching technology which is highly efficient.

More importantly, the motor not need run at a constant RPM and can vary speed to handle the load giving better fuel consumption and be much quieter with less vibration.

And of course the big bonus is in the almost perfect Voltage and Frequency regulation, which is why manufacturers are steadily adopting this technology.

Edited September 8, 2013 by jackflash

[muratremix]

muratremix,

> Producing AC, Converting it into DC and back to AC seems like a very inefficient way (and expensive).

As explained earlier, it is actually much more efficient and far cheaper for comparable performance:

The motor is smaller, the flywheel much lighter and the associated electronics use switching technology which is highly efficient.

More importantly, the motor not need run at a constant RPM and can vary speed to handle the load giving better fuel consumption and be much quieter with less vibration.

And of course the big bonus is in the almost perfect Voltage and Frequency regulation, which is why manufacturers are steadily adopting this technology.

May i ask whats the starting price range of these inverter gensets?

[jackflash]

Muratremix

> May i ask whats the starting price range of these inverter gensets?

At present they are quite expensive, but the price is dropping quickly.

As I mentioned, for the same features (weight, quiet running, voltage regulation, fuel economy, etc) they are in a class by themselves.

There's no alternative at any price.

[jackflash]

On ebay there's a huge range of Inverter generators starting at AU $199 for 1 KW

A 2kVA model is AU $355.00.

They have already taken a big slice of the camping market, due to their lightness, portability and low noise.

Edited September 9, 2013 by jackflash