Is changing Thailand's culture of corruption possible?

[Phuket electrician]

Read the figures at transparency international.

[Phuket electrician]

You're so incorrect just making yourself look silly.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Phuket electrician

[Tatsujin]

Short answer is no change in this lifetime. Am surprised at the corruption figure of 1.9 to 2.6 percent of GDP. I would think the figure

would be much higher....

I don't believe ANY of the statistics that are published, they make them up to sound better and are not accurate.

Also, stop calling it "graft" and say it like it is: thievery.

[ginjag]

If you dont think that USA and UK is corrupt then maybe its best you get out in the real world a little more.

The point being corruption levels, no one an say other places are not corrupt here and there, BUT it's the consistency that is the point, the IN YOUR FACE type as is apparent here.

[Tatsujin]

Incorrect to say the UK and the US is corrupt. Contrary to the view of transparency International. Whereas Thailand has a serious corruption problem. The poor and vulnerable are the ones to suffer. It's a government issue as the figures quoted in the article are from the public sector. Blame the government. Simple solution elect a clean administration.

You're not really seeing the bigger picture. Changing the Govt will change nothing. When corruption of all forms is so ingrained in a populace, you have to work on that also, not just change the people in charge.

[pmugghc]

Hong Kong had a big corruption problem. They started a special organization, ICAC in 1974. This has really helped reduce the corruption a lot. But would such a thing work in Thailand? Perhaps not, the attitude is way too pragmatic, everyone wants to take short-cuts.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Commission_Against_Corruption_(Hong_Kong)

Edited September 15, 2013 by pmugghc

[thomash]

All countries have varying levles of corruption but what makes it especially difficult for it to change here in Thailand is corruption here has become more and more socially acceptable. So until that changes nothing will change and it will only get worse like it has until someday it gets so bad they are forced to change or else they will end up like a 3rd world African country.

[dudu]

[osiboy]

Always surprises me when other nationalities accuse Thailand of being corrupt.

look at your own country first. Take mine the Isle of Man, corruption is rife and no recourse to take action against those in power.

Then look at the Uk and USA totally corrupt at MHK and Senator level.

Time to open your eyes folks it aint just a Thai problem, at least they are unashamed of the way they go about it.

agree it happens but not on the same scale as in LOS , the biggest difference is it's not acceptable to joe public in the west , it is in LOS

[osiboy]

Hong Kong had a big corruption problem. They started a special organization, ICAC in 1974. This has really helped reduce the corruption a lot. But would such a thing work in Thailand? Perhaps not, the attitude is way too pragmatic, everyone wants to take short-cuts. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Commission_Against_Corruption_(Hong_Kong)

yes , the only way out i could see would be ,...once asean is up and running, to ask singapore to come and police thailand , i know it will never happen , but just can't see any other way .................except down

[osiboy]

Incorrect to say the UK and the US is corrupt. Contrary to the view of transparency International. Whereas Thailand has a serious corruption problem. The poor and vulnerable are the ones to suffer. It's a government issue as the figures quoted in the article are from the public sector. Blame the government. Simple solution elect a clean administration.

clean admin ?? from ?................impossible , doesn't exist in LOS !

[transam]

Corruption in LOS, where does one start. I dare not start. I'm off to bed.

[pilm]

Is changing Thailand's culture of corruption possible?

No, I think the nature will always be to decieve and lie to gain advantage for oneself.

Edited September 15, 2013 by pilm

[pilm]

Once involved in business here competing with and against Thais, you see that everything has to be bought here.

Everything.

From people who have bought their position or otherwise given it through some sort of cronyism.

Just look at last year with the police and teachers being caught paying serious money to pass their entrance exams.

The Police.

And Teachers.

Paying cash to gain an advantage in their entrance exams.

And not just one or two. The numbers caught were in the hundreds. I haven't seen any follow up of any sort of mass judicial proceedings against them, or any media coverage of such. So presumably all forgotten about in return for some sort of gain. $$$

Edited September 15, 2013 by pilm

[bkkgriz]

I just want to add this to the discussion;

NO!!!

[salavan]

Short answer is no change in this lifetime. Am surprised at the corruption figure of 1.9 to 2.6 percent of GDP. I would think the figure

would be much higher....

they were paid a bribe to make to figures lower

[StreetCowboy]

If you dont think that USA and UK is corrupt then maybe its best you get out in the real world a little more.

Every society is corrupt to a greater or lesser extent. To compare the UK or USA with Thailand is to compare a Jif Lemon to a Golden Delicious.

The most significant difference is not in the law - the laws in both Thailand and the USA or UK insist upon honest service by the servants of government and commerce - the difference is in the application of those laws.

SC

[1plumber]

I remember some years ago when I came here and my girl told me she had to go vote. She knew who she was going to cast this ballot and I was like,"isn't that nice that my girl has so much social conscience?" I ask her what about this candidate that was different from the others. She informed that this was the one that had paid everyone in the village 200. baht for the vote. I was on my way to enlightenment on that day....wow

[Maestro]

Yes, but it will have to get much worse before it gets better. As I remember it, a recent survey showed that over 80% of Thailand's population approved of corruption or paid bribes to government employees. If it were possible to reduce this by only 1% per year there would be zero corruption in 80 years, but it will never happen.

I have been told by people who regularly bid for government contracts that not too long ago, perhaps 15 years ago, the standard kickback was 5% and that today it is 30%, and rising.

[Thai at Heart]

Once involved in business here competing with and against Thais, you see that everything has to be bought here.

Everything.

From people who have bought their position or otherwise given it through some sort of cronyism.

Just look at last year with the police and teachers being caught paying serious money to pass their entrance exams.

The Police.

And Teachers.

Paying cash to gain an advantage in their entrance exams.

And not just one or two. The numbers caught were in the hundreds. I haven't seen any follow up of any sort of mass judicial proceedings against them, or any media coverage of such. So presumably all forgotten about in return for some sort of gain. $$$

Ain't that the truth..

[Noistar]

If you dont think that USA and UK is corrupt then maybe its best you get out in the real world a little more.

Every society is corrupt to a greater or lesser extent. To compare the UK or USA with Thailand is to compare a Jif Lemon to a Golden Delicious.

The most significant difference is not in the law - the laws in both Thailand and the USA or UK insist upon honest service by the servants of government and commerce - the difference is in the application of those laws.

SC

IMO you've summed up the reason for many of Thailand's problems in your post Edited September 15, 2013 by Noistar

[Noistar]

Is changing Thailand's culture of corruption possible?

No, I think the nature will always be to decieve and lie to gain advantage for oneself.

And as StreetCowboy pointed out, there is nothing to stop them - no dis-incentive.

Until a line is drawn, nothing will change

IMO

[Noistar]

Is changing Thailand's culture of corruption possible?

No, I think the nature will always be to decieve and lie to gain advantage for oneself.

If I can borrow my post from a similar thread

"Do the population actually understand what corruption is?

The idea it's a big car, new house, money in pocket, supports what appears to be the Thai expectation from life.

Are they aware of the downside, and just choose to accept or ignore it?

I get the impression that 'the family comes first' isn't far removed from 'sod everyone else, I'm alright jack'. I certainly get the insular 'up to them' reply when referring to others.

With a selfish attitude, the seeds of corruption will continue to be sown"

[yooper2001]

This reminds me of a true story in USA. I used to race cars and while returning home from another state ( Wisconsin ) with a small convoy of other racers I was stopped by the police for not coming to a complete stop at a intersection in a small village. The policeman gave me a ticket for $55.00 USD. Then he give me a envelope and said if I have cash then I could put it into the envelope and he will drop it off to the court for me. I asked him how do I know that he will not open the envelope and pocket the cash later. He said to me to follow him. He took me back 125 miles to the county court and had me follow him into the office to see him put the envelope on the secretary's desk. I learned to keep my mouth shut and trust the police when they say something in USA

[Pikeybkk]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Toscano]

The simple answer is NO . Corruption is endemic , has reached saturation point at every level of society . The measure of corruption in politics and business gives no correct indication of corruption in Thailand , Law enforcement , teachers , housewives , students . When a society is permiated , where do you begin and who is going to give a lead .

[Sheryl]

The same question of course needs to be asked of Cambodia and Viet Nam.

Are there any examples of countries which had this type of deeply entrenched corruption as the norm which later succeeded in effecting significant improvements?

[StreetCowboy]

The same question of course needs to be asked of Cambodia and Viet Nam.

Are there any examples of countries which had this type of deeply entrenched corruption as the norm which later succeeded in effecting significant improvements?

Hong Kong?

It was before my time.

I think Malaysia is getting better

[harrry]

One thing that seems to have changed here since the 70s is the type of corruption. In the 70s to get something done in general you had to pay unless you wanted to wait several months. You could still get what you wanted often but the delay would make it preferable to pay a "quick processing fee" which ensured you got the service when you needed it.

Similarly for minor offences you had a choice. A long complicated process through the courts or a quick speedy resolution.

As there was little tax base these payments were pooled and passed up the line and helped raise the almost non existant government salary to a liveable level

Some considered this "honest" corruption as whatever happened you wnded up with what you were entitled to.

It was easy to pay to get what you were entitled to but was rather difficult and very expensive to pay for something that was actually seriously ilegal.

There does seem to have been a shift in this despite government wages increasing with a larger tax base. It seems now the costs of doing something quiclky has esculated and it is easier to pay to get something that normally you would not be entitled to.

There was a time the system may have worked here but not so much now.

[Noistar]

The same question of course needs to be asked of Cambodia and Viet Nam.

Are there any examples of countries which had this type of deeply entrenched corruption as the norm which later succeeded in effecting significant improvements?

Hong Kong?

It was before my time.

I think Malaysia is getting better

(Have you got the iPad App or are you increasing your posts?

LOL

)