spacebass Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Simple question simple answer = No. The farang logic / BS constituting this thread is wholly irrelevant as usual .... TiT . It is another delightful world don't spoil it with logic ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianb1944 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 is corruption awareness being taught in the schools after the parents have paid "tea money" to have their child accepted for enrollment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack007 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) The word Corruption is in Thailand a grammar word.The corruption is deep in the roots to find. If they want to eliminate this there must be fast action and seize the properties and bank-accounts, and also from the family (wife, children and brothers and sisters).It will deliver the government probably 600 billion baht, which they need urgently.If they don’t do Thailand will be a developing country, which a big difference between rich and poor.Is it normal that customs drives in an expensive car?That government officers own 3 expensive condos as investment and have bank-accounts with millions baht?In my eyes it is stealing from the kingdom and it is so easy to discover.Action needed! Edited September 16, 2013 by metisdead Large font reset to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halion Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 At least refreshing to see that corruption is noted as an adherent part of the culture. Now we know what need fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wat dee Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 It is possible if civil-servants are paid enough. That means corporate and income taxes are enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cup-O-coffee Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Is changing Thailand's culture of corruption possible? In a word; No! Next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razer Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Thailand is past redemption. Only a severe social upheaval or enforced draconian measures can stop corruption at this point. Karama is coming to Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxrnz Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 The same question of course needs to be asked of Cambodia and Viet Nam. Are there any examples of countries which had this type of deeply entrenched corruption as the norm which later succeeded in effecting significant improvements? To answer your question - yes, all first world countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giggles Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 no ,its rotten to the core .cancerous to its core Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubby johnson Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Corruption is part of Thailand's heritage and ancient culture and therefore needs to be protected by UNESCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Is changing Thailand's culture of corruption possible? No, I think the nature will always be to decieve and lie to gain advantage for oneself. If I can borrow my post from a similar thread"Do the population actually understand what corruption is? The idea it's a big car, new house, money in pocket, supports what appears to be the Thai expectation from life. Are they aware of the downside, and just choose to accept or ignore it? I get the impression that 'the family comes first' isn't far removed from 'sod everyone else, I'm alright jack'. I certainly get the insular 'up to them' reply when referring to others. With a selfish attitude, the seeds of corruption will continue to be sown" Of course that's how it is here. As long as you wai the right people, etc, you will largely get away with it. Note that Thainess doesn't extend to building a society. It is building a culture, and now, Thainess is virtually synonymous with corruption. If Thainess had had a semblance of building a society contained in it from its inception, corruption wouldn't have flourished. But today, the I'm alright Jack's have won out. There is still a small semblance of community left in the villages, but in reality, there is little or no unifying spirit in Thai culture any more other than to respect your parents and the royal family, and give some things to the temple if you have any spare. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noistar Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Is changing Thailand's culture of corruption possible?No, I think the nature will always be to decieve and lie to gain advantage for oneself.If I can borrow my post from a similar thread"Do the population actually understand what corruption is? The idea it's a big car, new house, money in pocket, supports what appears to be the Thai expectation from life. Are they aware of the downside, and just choose to accept or ignore it? I get the impression that 'the family comes first' isn't far removed from 'sod everyone else, I'm alright jack'. I certainly get the insular 'up to them' reply when referring to others. With a selfish attitude, the seeds of corruption will continue to be sown" Of course that's how it is here. As long as you wai the right people, etc, you will largely get away with it. Note that Thainess doesn't extend to building a society. It is building a culture, and now, Thainess is virtually synonymous with corruption. If Thainess had had a semblance of building a society contained in it from its inception, corruption wouldn't have flourished. But today, the I'm alright Jack's have won out. There is still a small semblance of community left in the villages, but in reality, there is little or no unifying spirit in Thai culture any more other than to respect your parents and the royal family, and give some things to the temple if you have any spare. You seem to share my thoughts.IMO it's very sad that the very Thai culture is at the heart of Thailand's problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 It is the foreign construct that is Thainess that is the problem, not Thai culture. But, when it comes to "culture" per se, what does that mean anyway. There is little or no concept of society and community left here, and it is very very sad. From the dick head who has 20 dogs in his house in the moobhan, that yap, bark and crap everywhere, to the shop owner who puts the sign post in front of his shop on the public road to park his Merc, people don't understand anymore how to live together as a community. Thai people have basically become inconsiderate and the bolshiest and richest do as they like. I was in a traffic jam in the UK last week. Someone gave way to let me in. I felt very happy to be home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phuket electrician Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 For those members that didn't pay attention at school the public sector is national government. Clean up the corrupt public sector, enforce the law, corruption solved. Yes it is possible and it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billmont Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 As long as there is no welfare state in Thailand corruption will be rampant. The bottom line is that for too many people the money swirling in the system is the difference between relative poverty and survival in the longer term. So here we go with the hypocrisy of too many TV members and farangs in Thailand. Far too many are delighted to buy their way out of trouble. Everyone that has paid over even a few hundred baht to avoid a speeding ticket is contributing to the problem. That's never mind the guys that are buying their way out of more serious charges. Many farangs here seem to be delighted that there is no welfare state in this country. There's a cabal here that have came out of the most protected nations on Earth and think it's wonderful that Thais don't get access to the same services. The same guys that will jump on a flight home when the going gets tough. Then they wonder why corruption is endemic. It's endemic because many people here are in a permanent panic about their families financial needs. I knew a lady that worked 20 hours a day to try to get the money for her Yai's medical treatment. Now she is working 18 hours a day to get the money for an operation she needs. There's days she goes hungry as the pain is killing her, she figures don't eat, and get the money for the operation faster. Depression era Americans knew how hunger felt, post war Germans and many other Europeans too. When that level of financial brutality is in place desperation for money follows and corruption fills the gap. The difference between the Western countries and Thailand though is that we had a history of Rule of Law. Thailand is still Rule Of Man. Until the Rule of Man is defeated the country will continue on this spiral. There is still corruption in the West but if you walked in to your local police station and was asked for money to ensure you got a result, well? The newspapers would be all over it so........ The Thai defamation law is a barrier to ending corruption, it's a disgraceful law that has to go. One of the things that sickens me most is people on this forum talking about Thailand's financial reserves. Every single penny it has in reserve is stolen from essential services for the people of Thailand, This countries failure to fulfill it's obligations to it's population makes it morally bankrupt. The tax base has to increase and investment in essential services and infrastructure has to increase. All of these issues ( and more ) are interlinked. Where would I start? Do the easy thing first, reform the defamation law. Create a highly paid FBI style force and bring the same law and order reform that the US did during the Depression era, and enforce the Rule of Law. If need be declare a national amnesty re corruption and start again. Anyone caught with their fingers in the till after the amnesty should face serious punishment and loss of all assets. Invest in essential services and concentrate on care for the elderly. Crack on with that and corruption will reduce. The more high profile cases of people being jailed and stripped of all assets the more it will reduce. Will it happen? Nope. So I've just wasted 10 minutes of my life writing this post but to be fair, it was either that or tidy my room. Maybe if I go to sleep the Tooth Fairy will tidy my room for me, and once she's finished she can go solve the corruption problem. There's as much chance of the Tooth Fairy fixing it as anyone in the current Thai government. Just sayin' Sorry but after reading your post several times I still do not get the connection between no welfare state and corruption. Did the UK have such corruption before the welfare state was introduced, I do not think so, but if so did the introduction of the welfare state prevent corruption? The wefare state usually supports the 'have nots' the ones who have little or no chance to gain from corruption in fact in Thailand these are the ones most punished by corruption as they have no choice but to pay to make their lives a little less unpleasant. If they had more via a generous welfare state they would have to pay more as they would still be at the bottom of the food chain. As far as I am aware most locals now have the benefit of free medical care or only have to pay a nominal fee so there is a welfare state or at least the beginnings of one. People over 60 now get THB 600 per month pension, disabled people get THB 500 per month, certainly not enough to live on but a great help and a step in the right direction. Since these payments commenced has there been a decline in corruption, I think not. You say that many Farangs are delighted that there is not a welfare state, I do not understand this at all. Why would this delight anybody? By what I have read of T.V. many Farangs support not only his wife but her parents, maybe even grandparents. If the extended family received benefits then such Farang support would not be necessary so contrary to what you state I think it is more likely that an Farang would be delighted if there was a better welfare state. I know I would be delighted with a better welfare state as although my wifes extended family are financially independant there are others in the village that are not. Some who are sick and can get free medical treatment cannot afford to take the day off and pay transport to the hospital, my wife helps, either drive them or pay for the transport and ensure that they have enough to eat that day.She has also bought clothes for another family's children as they were just about in rags as one parent has a drink problem. My wife is very careful about how she helps and in the end it is small money, her mother also cooks and give food to those that have a definate need but never to the extent it can be abused. This is our village and everyone knows each other and there is a great community spirit here and many help when the need is great, just as my wife does. It is always the most difficult to start anything new but the roots of a welfare state have been planted as I have mentioned above and hopefully it will grow but I do not see how this will reduce corruption because the main problem is at a much higher level. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noistar Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 For those members that didn't pay attention at school the public sector is national government. Clean up the corrupt public sector, enforce the law, corruption solved. Yes it is possible and it will happen. Like British Public Schools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phuket electrician Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post smutcakes Posted September 16, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted September 16, 2013 Changing the culture of corruption is not only possible, it is actually fairly simple. The state of corruption at present is solely due to there being no effective rule of law and justice system. A system must be put into place to reign in the police's extra judicial power. Any extortion committed by police could be punished by execution for over a certain amount and lengthy prison terms for lesser amounts. With many of the public carrying smart phones it is easy to record the extortion happening and is great evidence of it. For example, Khun Z is caught carrying 1 gram of marijuana, police demand 100,000B for instant release. Khun Z takes his recording of this extortion to the NACC(or preferably a new body set up by impartial personnel- preferably foreign citizens to start with) and is granted immunity for his crime while the policeman would be executed. It will be very fast, instant, for law to be applied by the books. I believe 1 gram of marijuana carries an official fine of around 5,000B (SWIK just got convicted in a Thai court this week for that exact offense and that was the fine). For corruption involving billions the punishment must be shocking. Kim Jong Il could advise on some of his methods. 4 horses and a rope in front of family members would be my recommendation. Get law, order and justice implemented properly, without favor, applied to all and you will find corruption will disappear faster than an energy drink scion. And who is going to enforce this? The corrupt judges?the corrupt police? the corrupt politicians? the corrupt army? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phuket electrician Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Quite boring when members repeat what others have said and have zero input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 What? I think he was trying to imply that the British Public School system was an example of corruption. Strictly speaking, though, I don't think that all forms of privilege are necessarily corrupt. To my mind, the key elements of corruption are a) People do not work for the benefit of their employer People take payment from others rather than their employer, outside of the terms of their contract with their employer, and those payments influence their employment c) People's progress in their careers is not determined based on competence or performance. The most obvious example of this that you or I, as international consultants, will be exposed to, is air miles; payments by a supplier to members of their clients' staff with the hope of influencing their buying decisions or recommendations. SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokstick Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Hopefully no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Do you think that legalising prostitution would reduce corruption significantly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackr Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 It's endemic because many people here are in a permanent panic about their families financial needs. Perhaps, but I posit that GREED is the major player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 It's endemic because many people here are in a permanent panic about their families financial needs. Perhaps, but I posit that GREED is the major player. Greed alone is not sufficient. The most critical differentiator is probably the acceptance of authority based on position. I am sure more of us would abuse our positions, if we could get away with it. As far as I can tell, I have never been offered a bribe in my career, and only once been asked for one, though I am fortunate that we were unsuccessful in that bid. Perhaps one other time someone was maybe rolling the wicket to request a bribe, but he beat about the bush to the extent that it could have been entirely innocent. SC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketsub Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Corruption is a disease similar to alcoholism! If the people don't want to change and do what is necessary to accomplish it will never change. It is a way of life for Thais and it will never change! Corruption is certainly not a disease, and I don't believe alcoholism is either. They are vices and need to be perceived as such, imho. But even if they were both diseases, you still wouldn't be able to compare what would be a social disease (corruption) to a more personal "disease" like alcoholism. Alcoholism: One individual hits rock bottom and realizes change is needed; makes changes Corruption: Entire populations are"infected". It is much easier to find solutions for individuals than groups, so I am not down with this particular analogy. I prefer to compare corruption to littering. If one enters a new house that is immaculately clean, that person is far less likely to make a mess than when entering a pig-sty. It's all about raising and maintaining standards. I think this is one of Thailand's greatest challenges, but you don't need to be a Thai to help them out in this battle. Just Say No. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noistar Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 What?Are public schools government sector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phuket electrician Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) I really do think some members have limited education. Public school in England is the private sector. Corruption in the private sector is illegal (enforce the law) Edited September 16, 2013 by Phuket electrician Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) What?Are public schools government sector?The are private "public" schools in the UK, named as such since they were reckoned to be worthy of producing people for public service and served the public by offering scholarships for talented kids. Just to confuse it more not all private schools are public schools.... Edited September 16, 2013 by Thai at Heart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 What?Are public schools government sector?The are private "public" schools in the UK, named as such since they were reckoned to be worthy of producing people for public service and served the public by offering scholarships for talented kids. Just to confuse it more not all private schools are public schools.... The 'public' schools were not affiliated to a specific church or guild or district. They could educate anyone that paid to go there. Now the term is used to identify schools that are members of a certain trade body SC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noistar Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 What?Are public schools government sector?The are private "public" schools in the UK, named as such since they were reckoned to be worthy of producing people for public service and served the public by offering scholarships for talented kids. Just to confuse it more not all private schools are public schools....The 'public' schools were not affiliated to a specific church or guild or district. They could educate anyone that paid to go there.Now the term is used to identify schools that are members of a certain trade body SC Cheers for that lads 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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