Improving English skills is vital: Surin

[PaullyW]

I think a lot of people are missing a much larger benefit of being able to understand and communicate in English.

It is not only about being able to speak or read or write or understand for the sake of those things. It also opens a world of knowledge to Thais (literature, philosophy, political thought, scientific thought, various forms of popular media, ect).

These are all things unavailable to Thais in their own language. It could serve to slowly revolutionize the country from the inside out.

Extremely powerful in that way. As such, a farmer might indeed profit from having the knowledge.

[ratcatcher]

If I was Thai, I would be as immensely proud that my country was ahead of Libya in English language skills. I could care less we are 1st from the bottom.

[ramrod711]

Last year, among 54 countries surveyed for English proficiency, Thailand ranked 53, only ahead of Libya.

Perhaps they might consider allowing people that are here on retirement visas to help, i don't want to lose my visa just because i volunteer to assist young people in my village. My wife is asked frequently if i can teach english, i am the only farang in the village. Parents bring their kids to our house when they have to do the interviews in english for school projects, they ask where i come from, my hobbies, favourite colours etc. and take a photo, presumably to prove that they actually spoke to a foreigner. I am not a teacher but i think it would be helpful just to sit and chat with them.

Great idea - to avoid problems it would be a good idea to call these 'outings', 'family get-togethers', etc. Don't couch it as work/volunteer work or anything like that. Perhaps form a social group including Thai and foreign families, where people can practice english. There's nothing illegal about having social get-togethers.

A good friend of mine was helping out at a pre-school, just doing what he could, speaking english to the children. Sadly, he passed away from cancer. The entire class attended his funeral and sang a couple of songs in english, it was a very emotional thing, and a just reward for a 70 year old guy that risked his visa to help out.

[toybits]

Most Thais are too lazy to learn... They find it too difficult.

[Thai at Heart]

Most Thais are too lazy to learn... They find it too difficult.

I would agree if an awful lot of them, couldn't see the point in education, more so than being lazy.

Work all those years to get a job worth 10 to 15k per month, where virtually everything I had ever learnt was of absolutely no value whatsoever, but if I have an uncle Somchai who has a mate, who I can pay a little money to, I can get the job with no qualifications at all.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[phantomfiddler]

Contrary to the common way of thinking here, Thailand is NOT the center (aka centre) of the universe, and neither also is England, but it used to be

[loogkreung]

And why is the Thai education system so bad? Most of the thai teachers, having come through their own system, are at best semi-educated. There's little to no motivation, whether that's to do with the small salary, no resources or even the energy-sapping weather, is anyone's guess. Many of the English teachers aren't fit to educate. Many have no qualifications and come for the same reason they always have - the cheap beer and sex. The government have tried to redress this problem by insisting on Bachelor's degrees, but the schools recruit from agencies who are taken at their word. It's a real mess!

[hellodolly]

Last year, among 54 countries surveyed for English proficiency, Thailand ranked 53, only ahead of Libya.

Perhaps they might consider allowing people that are here on retirement visas to help, i don't want to lose my visa just because i volunteer to assist young people in my village. My wife is asked frequently if i can teach english, i am the only farang in the village. Parents bring their kids to our house when they have to do the interviews in english for school projects, they ask where i come from, my hobbies, favourite colours etc. and take a photo, presumably to prove that they actually spoke to a foreigner. I am not a teacher but i think it would be helpful just to sit and chat with them.

Agreed I am not a teacher but I feel that just chatting with them would help. I could help them speak the language but not teach one iota of proper grammar. I feel proper grammar is some thing they can pick up after they learn the language. I remember taking a course in beginner learning Thai. There I was being tought grammer in a language I could not speak.

With that system it would be an interactive event. I feel that would be far more inviting to the students than lecture and no questions allowed. Also it would not be some thing that was graded it would be some thing for those interested in learning.

Let me ask you this, one assumes you were taught English grammar at school ? I know I was and hated it....not sure if western schools even teach these days, unless you becoming a teacher...so one can imagine being taught this day in day out....is going to get bored sh@tess and lose interest very quickly

The thing is, since the government recognises that this is of such national importance, they can take control of so many issues that they can actually make it an awful lot of fun. languages can be a bit of drudgery if you make it that way. The government can mandate all sorts of things.

Daily English hours on TV, weekly english language speaking corners, jobs for volunteer english speaking high school students, stop translating English language movies. Someone should call up MK and get them to run a discount if kids order the entire family meal in English. Run national competitions, run spelling competitions that celebrate the kids to high heaven.

Expecing this bunch of dinosaurs at the education ministry to come up with the solution is delusional, better to subcontract the whole thing to Singapore. The Thai system can't even teach Thai language, what hope do they have of English.

I pretty much agree with all you say except I do not believe there is that big of a need for every one to learn English. What good is an Engineer who can speak perfect English but needs a calculator to add 2+2?

A friend of mine had a degree in English. She took the TEFL course and said it was the hardest course she had ever taken. What they did was tought her how to teach. She already had the knowledge. Now she has learned to use her creative side to make it attractive to the students and keep there attention she makes it a fun thing.

When I was a young lad many decades ago I was told that the one subject I would need all my life was arithmetic. Yet here in Thailand there seems to be no importance attached to it. Learn English is the in thing now. I firmly believe and I am going to be generous with this estament that only 15% of the population will ever need it.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

When I was a young lad many decades ago I was told that the one subject I would need all my life was arithmetic. Yet here in Thailand there seems to be no importance attached to it. Learn English is the in thing now. I firmly believe and I am going to be generous with this estament that only 15% of the population will ever need it.

Thais need it to come out of the dark ages. They need it to access the internet and learn how other cultures work. They need it to learn to be able to see beyond their noses. They need it because there is a big world out there that they know nothing about. They need it to realize how screwed they are.

Even a rice farmer in Isaan needs the internet to keep up on the latest. All of the latest isn't in Thailand or in Thai. Thais just think it is and that needs to change.

It's not about learning English per se. It's about walking out of darkness.

[backtonormal]

lots of talk, let us hope there is some walk to go along with it. If the pollies and other government officials can make a quid out of it maybe something something will happen.

one might be forgiven for thinking that corruption is actually the problem, that even head teachers are syphoning off funds that should go into education, as well as the other schemes such as one tablet for each pupil!

Not to mention the questionable qualifications of teachers to actually teach the subject they teach, and dare I say that includes some of those Farangs teaching English!

Considering the amount of cash from government funds that goes into education and how little of it reaches the front line, one might conclude that corruption is the first problem, actual teaching the second because the corruption drives the whole raison d'etre for the whole system.

I think a thread on personal experiences with corruption in Thai schools from TV members that teach here would be an interesting read.

I know a little story about 20 thai teachers who went on a 3 country European holiday to visit schools. The names of the schools were googled from a misplaced document and none of them existed. Just a jolly...oh forgot...they were all given 100,000 baht each to spend.

Or a school accountant who stood over a fire bin while the groundsman burnt 100's of documents. She never left until every paper was ashes.

I have been on a 30+ teacher jolly flying for 3 nights in 4 star hotel in Phuket. The cash comes from school fees and entrance tea money.

I have seen a country school director build four new air con offices while the classrooms had no windows and some had no electric. The same guy brought in heavy equipment to make a garden on 2 rai in the school and build a toilet block so far from the school building it was only used for students to have a cig in. He trousers 100's thousands of baht and thats in the village. I now know of a school who are about to build a four storey toilet block yet have no canteen facilities for 3000 students. big rake offs in construction.

I would love to hear the thousands of story out there

[Baerboxer]

Draconian measures must also be taken to prevent the insidious invasion of so-called American English so that our children do not suffer the fate of English speakers in Singapore, China, the Philippines and Malaysia whose English vocabulary, spelling and accents have been corrupted.

Outrageous comment. The population size that uses the various forms of "British English" is tiny. It's all about the internet and world commerce which is in American English. There are various brands of English but we all can communicate which is what matters. We all communicate just fine on this forum, even those for whom English isn't their first language.

Yes, "the fate of English speakers in Singapore, China, the Philippines and Malaysia" and Canada and America and Austrialia.. At least they can access ALL of the important information on the internet, conduct international trade, and talk and send emails to each other.

British English is, worldwide, so yesterday that you need to keep up.

Nonsense. I know many educated Americans who have a better understanding of what you refer to as "British English" than very many native Brits.

The differences are in the colloquial and idiomatic uses, particularly when spoken in every day use. For scientific, academic and real business information there is not such many differences.

American, British, Australian, Indian, and Philippine English - all have their nuances, accents, and idioms. But, these differences are less at the level required for higher study and commerce.

No one writes academic research papers, business journals or scientific reports using American or British common spoken English. It is this new evolving written "international" English that is vital for young people to know.

[Baerboxer]

Draconian measures must also be taken to prevent the insidious invasion of so-called American English so that our children do not suffer the fate of English speakers in Singapore, China, the Philippines and Malaysia whose English vocabulary, spelling and accents have been corrupted.

Outrageous comment. The population size that uses the various forms of "British English" is tiny. It's all about the internet and world commerce which is in American English. There are various brands of English but we all can communicate which is what matters. We all communicate just fine on this forum, even those for whom English isn't their first language.

Yes, "the fate of English speakers in Singapore, China, the Philippines and Malaysia" and Canada and America and Austrialia.. At least they can access ALL of the important information on the internet, conduct international trade, and talk and send emails to each other.

British English is, worldwide, so yesterday that you need to keep up.

Nonsense. I know many educated Americans who have a better understanding of what you refer to as "British English" than very many native Brits.

The differences are in the colloquial and idiomatic uses, particularly when spoken in every day use. For scientific, academic and real business information there is not such many differences.

American, British, Australian, Indian, and Philippine English - all have their nuances, accents, and idioms. But, these differences are less at the level required for higher study and commerce.

No one writes academic research papers, business journals or scientific reports using American or British common spoken English. It is this new evolving written "international" English that is vital for young people to know.

Population size is irrelevant - otherwise Americans would be learning Indian English !

[Thai at Heart]

Last year, among 54 countries surveyed for English proficiency, Thailand ranked 53, only ahead of Libya.

Perhaps they might consider allowing people that are here on retirement visas to help, i don't want to lose my visa just because i volunteer to assist young people in my village. My wife is asked frequently if i can teach english, i am the only farang in the village. Parents bring their kids to our house when they have to do the interviews in english for school projects, they ask where i come from, my hobbies, favourite colours etc. and take a photo, presumably to prove that they actually spoke to a foreigner. I am not a teacher but i think it would be helpful just to sit and chat with them.

Agreed I am not a teacher but I feel that just chatting with them would help. I could help them speak the language but not teach one iota of proper grammar. I feel proper grammar is some thing they can pick up after they learn the language. I remember taking a course in beginner learning Thai. There I was being tought grammer in a language I could not speak.

With that system it would be an interactive event. I feel that would be far more inviting to the students than lecture and no questions allowed. Also it would not be some thing that was graded it would be some thing for those interested in learning.

Let me ask you this, one assumes you were taught English grammar at school ? I know I was and hated it....not sure if western schools even teach these days, unless you becoming a teacher...so one can imagine being taught this day in day out....is going to get bored sh@tess and lose interest very quickly

The thing is, since the government recognises that this is of such national importance, they can take control of so many issues that they can actually make it an awful lot of fun. languages can be a bit of drudgery if you make it that way. The government can mandate all sorts of things.

Daily English hours on TV, weekly english language speaking corners, jobs for volunteer english speaking high school students, stop translating English language movies. Someone should call up MK and get them to run a discount if kids order the entire family meal in English. Run national competitions, run spelling competitions that celebrate the kids to high heaven.

Expecing this bunch of dinosaurs at the education ministry to come up with the solution is delusional, better to subcontract the whole thing to Singapore. The Thai system can't even teach Thai language, what hope do they have of English.

I pretty much agree with all you say except I do not believe there is that big of a need for every one to learn English. What good is an Engineer who can speak perfect English but needs a calculator to add 2+2?

A friend of mine had a degree in English. She took the TEFL course and said it was the hardest course she had ever taken. What they did was tought her how to teach. She already had the knowledge. Now she has learned to use her creative side to make it attractive to the students and keep there attention she makes it a fun thing.

When I was a young lad many decades ago I was told that the one subject I would need all my life was arithmetic. Yet here in Thailand there seems to be no importance attached to it. Learn English is the in thing now. I firmly believe and I am going to be generous with this estament that only 15% of the population will ever need it.

Well it's a subject just like any other. Would you like a trained engineer who gets a B grade at high school English or gets no grade at all?

Some will be fluent, some will get a working ability some will get pigeon English.

Right now fluent is 1%, working is 5% and the rest between pigeon and none.

[wolf5370]

Improving English skills is not the answer to Thailand's educational problems, it would be a result. The problem is that within the present educational system with a total lack of accountability and priority in all levels, Thai kids will never learn English or any subject at all! Compared to International standards of course.

Yes, however it can also work the other way around. In countries like Malaysia, schools often teach to IGCSE (now the worlds most common curriculum) - as this is externally graded, it would forestall any real ability to fix the result. It would also give a real indication of where the country is in the world education wise (instead of guesswork) as there would be like-for-like results. English would be required to take these exams.

I worked for years with people from India. They pretty much all speak English - some perfectly (albeit with the Indian English grammar - using present continuous or perfect instead of present "I am being very happy today" etc). One old friend went to a missionary school as a child, he started and left as a Hindu, but as the missionaries taught in English, he left speaking and reading/writing English. In India the courts are in English, the laws are written in English and many schools teach in English - this has slipped over time - especially with the poorest (they no longer have their English masters to need to understand), but English is still maintained to a high degree there. Another colony, yes - but not in 3-4 generations now, long enough to forget (Look at Burma where English is all but forgotten and they were a colony later than India and with far fewer people).

If they want this to happen, then schools must teach in English. This means either retraining every teacher in the country (not likely!) or incentivising the start up of English language schools (I mean real school where subjects are taught in English) with English speaking teachers - even if this needs foreign teachers (and it will - this should only be the case for one generation!) and thus special residency allowance/long term visas are made available specifically (it is not enough to offer yearly extensions at below minimum capped wage - that does not incentivise anyone in itself and it needs to - they are needed for a generation and en-masse, so give English speaking qualified teachers 5 year visas with direct to residency after those 5 years if they stay in that profession - they are asking for teachers to invest and make life changing decisions for a very low wage compared to back home, this needs life assurances otherwise they will only get unqualified teachers in state schools - international schools are not relevant). This can be assisted with offering teacher training to professionals living here on the same basis (i.e. visa/residency) - there are plenty of IT, engineers, business people, etc here that natively speak English, even a paid for course would acceptable to many to get the change to contribute and secure their future at the same time. Win-win for Thailand (get trained English teachers, get more tax revenue, no more foreigners than needed).

Come 2015, ASEAN doors will open and Thailand will be flattened by the giants (which already speak English) - Singapore and Malaysia. They need to look at this now and do something now with quick turn around.

[wolf5370]

Draconian measures must also be taken to prevent the insidious invasion of so-called American English so that our children do not suffer the fate of English speakers in Singapore, China, the Philippines and Malaysia whose English vocabulary, spelling and accents have been corrupted.

Outrageous comment. The population size that uses the various forms of "British English" is tiny. It's all about the internet and world commerce which is in American English. There are various brands of English but we all can communicate which is what matters. We all communicate just fine on this forum, even those for whom English isn't their first language.

Yes, "the fate of English speakers in Singapore, China, the Philippines and Malaysia" and Canada and America and Austrialia.. At least they can access ALL of the important information on the internet, conduct international trade, and talk and send emails to each other.

British English is, worldwide, so yesterday that you need to keep up.

Nonsense. I know many educated Americans who have a better understanding of what you refer to as "British English" than very many native Brits.

The differences are in the colloquial and idiomatic uses, particularly when spoken in every day use. For scientific, academic and real business information there is not such many differences.

American, British, Australian, Indian, and Philippine English - all have their nuances, accents, and idioms. But, these differences are less at the level required for higher study and commerce.

No one writes academic research papers, business journals or scientific reports using American or British common spoken English. It is this new evolving written "international" English that is vital for young people to know.

Indeed, there actually is no :"British English" other than in Microsoft Office - even in England there is great variance in pronunciations and even vocabulary. Which is to be expected in language that has been built up from many languages going back 35,000 years - with major influences from Gaelic (more or less depending on region) , Roman Latin, Ancient Greek, Saxon German, Frank, Renaissance French, and also the reinfusion of other forms of "English" due to immigration and media. "Queens English" (or "BBC English" as once was) is the "Proper" or maybe "Standard" English, which practically no one on Earth speaks comparatively.

It is a snobbery we could really do without. Actually, American English actually spells things in a more traditional way than we Brits do, spelling "evolved" in the UK, without doing the same in America (we did not have the influence there like we did elsewhere in the colonies and later Commonwealth). Although Colour really needs that "U"

Pretty much all English speaking nations can understand each other just fine. In fact regional British English is often hardest to understand - my Mrs (Thai fluent in English) can understand Americans and Australians much easier than she can Glaswegians, Geordies and Irish from the south.