Land lease vs Superficies lease vs Usufruct Lease

[keithkarmann]

Get an Attorney preferably a farang that speaks your language, it’s best for your complete understanding that you have all the documents translated into your language as well for your review because they will be in Thai. Here is an option that might work for you, your wife owns the property, you loan her the money to build it and you lease the home for 30 years from her.

As an example: Put the property in your wife’s name as sole owner, let’s say you use 3 million to buy the land and build the house, execute an interest only mortgage on the property in your name for that amount or you could adjust it up for inflation. Then set up your 30 year lease and rent the home from your wife for the exact amount of her interest only loan payment to you. It’s a wash so no money exchanges hands each month.

She owns the property you hold the mortgage with interest only payments so the mortgage balance never reduces. Eventually when the property sells the lien will have to be satisfied to clear and transfer the title (Chanoht) for the new owner and your Thai Will then determines who gets the proceeds from the sale but you have to have a Thai Will, executed in Thailand for that property. Make SURE your name is on the Chanoht as the lien holder (it will be written in Thai) and don’t lose that paperwork.

Yes in theory a good idea if I understand it rightly. Picture this-I buy the land and build the house and it is all in her name but I have got full use of the property for 30 years. Technically I pay rent and she pays me mortgage payments, the relationship gets a bit shaky and I visit the UK for a few weeks and when I return the house is full Thai people, what chance do I have of getting them out.

I have had experience with the police regarding a domestic disturbance and the police did not want to hear from me. I defended myself from a crazy knife wielding Thai woman with a piece of bamboo and it was me who got fined for assault.Have you got an answer for this? Come to think of it this could happen with all the house building ideas I have Keith

[Leung Falang]

I have been married to my Thai wife for 22 years, although most of the time has been outside Thailand. Once retired, we began to come back to her Thai village every year for 2-3 months. I cannot find anything to recommend in a village in Isaan, least of all the relatives.

We continue to come every year now, but we did build a home in her name, but 60 km away from her village in a large town-this is great. The only thing that would make it better would be another 60 km away from relatives. Of course, everything is in her name and has been for the last 5 years. If she dies before me which is unlikely, her will gives me the property. If I die before her which is very likely, everything I have goes to her. We are happily married.

If your GF has to be "close" to her family, sounds like a new GF would be in order.

[Geoff plus 2]

Get an Attorney preferably a farang that speaks your language, it’s best for your complete understanding that you have all the documents translated into your language as well for your review because they will be in Thai.  Here is an option that might work for you, your wife owns the property, you loan her the money to build it and you lease the home for 30 years from her.

 

As an example:  Put the property in your wife’s name as sole owner, let’s say you use 3 million to buy the land and build the house, execute an interest only mortgage on the property in your name for that amount or you could adjust it up for inflation.  Then set up your 30 year lease and rent the home from your wife for the exact amount of her interest only loan payment to you.  It’s a wash so no money exchanges hands each month.

   

She owns the property you hold the mortgage with interest only payments so the mortgage balance never reduces. Eventually when the property sells the lien will have to be satisfied to clear and transfer the title (Chanoht) for the new owner and your Thai Will then determines who gets the proceeds from the sale but you have to have a Thai Will, executed in Thailand for that property.  Make SURE your name is on the Chanoht as the lien holder (it will be written in Thai) and don’t lose that paperwork.

Thanks Robert2006, that has to be the most intelligent post I've ever read regarding buying a house in Thailand.

Perfect

Wife gets new house

I get happy wife / investment protected

I will the mortgage rights to someone in my family and get to tell everyone who tells me wife/wifes family will kill me to get the house to stop talking crap.

The house on a big block near Chang Rai dream is alive again

Sent from somewhere using something

[belg]

don't break your head, heart and wallet, go rent a house;.. house is yours and she wants you out ? you might be the next balcony jumper

[TimRichards2k]

1 ) Lease the Land - If you take out Usufruct Interest recorded on the land from day 1, set the Usufruct to last until you die [it can be set for shorter period], then you set up a lease to the benefit of whoever you choose [GF, children, whatever]. The Usufruct gives you guaranteed benefit for life for anything on that land - house, garden, garage, swimming pool,.... So you have the benefit for as long as you live, and on your death, the lease you set up [you are the lessor, the named recipients, the leasees] can carry living in the house for as long as they like or choose. The house you build is then registered in your own name [legal for Farang to own house - but not land]. But the lease between you and a Thai woman that you marry can be unilaterally terminated at any time by either party during the marriage or up to 1 year after the termination of the marriage.

LEASE - things you may not know about leases between husband and wife -
A registered lease cannot be canceled by the land owner unless the owner is married to the lease holder.
Section 1469 of the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code - Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from
the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith is not affected thereby.

So solicitors that sell 'Lease for 30 years' for protection of Farang husband are taking money, in effect, under false pretenses, as the wife can, without even telling the husband, terminate it any time she wishes [or vice-versa].

2) Solicitors also offer 'Create a business' to buy a house. But you must make sure it is a genuine trading company [like selling newsletters or advice back in home country] that can put in legit accounts every year, and do not, for example trade in property. Make sure it is set up so that you are not required to have a Work Permit. A good and genuine solicitor can arrange all this, plus a deal with the land owner. There must be a contract that forbids loans, debts, liens, or the like taken out against the land as surety. And a legal binding contract for support and due care, plus an active commitment to help sell the property if you want to move on. Good idea to include an incentive [e.g. 3% of sale price] so the land owner is motivated to help you at that point in time.

Let me point out - "This is all my personal opinions. I am not an expert, nor qualified to give advice" . This is the result of ardent research to help many Farang over the last 15 years. Poor souls!

Want to know more about Laws in Thailand - look here -

Thailand Civil Code
(http://www.samuiforsale.com/Law-Texts/thailand-civil-code-part-1.html)

Thailand Criminal or Penal Code
(http://www.samuiforsale.com/Law-Texts/thailand-penal-code.html)

[FiftyTwo]

Get an Attorney preferably a farang that speaks your language, its best for your complete understanding that you have all the documents translated into your language as well for your review because they will be in Thai. Here is an option that might work for you, your wife owns the property, you loan her the money to build it and you lease the home for 30 years from her.

As an example: Put the property in your wifes name as sole owner, lets say you use 3 million to buy the land and build the house, execute an interest only mortgage on the property in your name for that amount or you could adjust it up for inflation. Then set up your 30 year lease and rent the home from your wife for the exact amount of her interest only loan payment to you. Its a wash so no money exchanges hands each month.

She owns the property you hold the mortgage with interest only payments so the mortgage balance never reduces. Eventually when the property sells the lien will have to be satisfied to clear and transfer the title (Chanoht) for the new owner and your Thai Will then determines who gets the proceeds from the sale but you have to have a Thai Will, executed in Thailand for that property. Make SURE your name is on the Chanoht as the lien holder (it will be written in Thai) and dont lose that paperwork.

Thanks Robert2006, that has to be the most intelligent post I've ever read regarding buying a house in Thailand.

Perfect

Wife gets new house

I get happy wife / investment protected

I will the mortgage rights to someone in my family and get to tell everyone who tells me wife/wifes family will kill me to get the house to stop talking crap.

The house on a big block near Chang Rai dream is alive again

Sent from somewhere using something

Contracts between husband and wife in Thailand are not binding.

Many land offices would outright refuse to even write such a loan onto a deed.

Edited September 17, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[Geoff plus 2]

Contracts between husband and wife in Thailand are not binding.

Many land offices would outright refuse to even write such a loan onto a deed.

Bummer, that great idea didn't last very long

Sent from somewhere using something

[Robert2006]

Get an Attorney preferably a farang that speaks your language, it’s best for your complete understanding that you have all the documents translated into your language as well for your review because they will be in Thai. Here is an option that might work for you, your wife owns the property, you loan her the money to build it and you lease the home for 30 years from her.

As an example: Put the property in your wife’s name as sole owner, let’s say you use 3 million to buy the land and build the house, execute an interest only mortgage on the property in your name for that amount or you could adjust it up for inflation. Then set up your 30 year lease and rent the home from your wife for the exact amount of her interest only loan payment to you. It’s a wash so no money exchanges hands each month.

She owns the property you hold the mortgage with interest only payments so the mortgage balance never reduces. Eventually when the property sells the lien will have to be satisfied to clear and transfer the title (Chanoht) for the new owner and your Thai Will then determines who gets the proceeds from the sale but you have to have a Thai Will, executed in Thailand for that property. Make SURE your name is on the Chanoht as the lien holder (it will be written in Thai) and don’t lose that paperwork.

Thanks Robert2006, that has to be the most intelligent post I've ever read regarding buying a house in Thailand.

Perfect

Wife gets new house

I get happy wife / investment protected

I will the mortgage rights to someone in my family and get to tell everyone who tells me wife/wifes family will kill me to get the house to stop talking crap.

The house on a big block near Chang Rai dream is alive again

Sent from somewhere using something

Thank you your very kind, I’m glad to offer and option that might work for you. Another member has indicated that contracts between husband and wife in Thailand are not binding, something I had not considered, I find that difficult to believe but who knows. That is a question for your Attorney and why the services of a knowledgeable Farang Attorney to structure your transaction correctly is essential.

I think it might be best to use an Attorney you select independently of any family referrals; initially I would obtain consultation without your wife or her family’s knowledge. I’m not suggesting you be deceitful or that you don’t trust your wife or her family but just keep it to yourself and do some investigation of your options before you discuss anything with anyone.

I believe the purchasing theory of this type of transaction is sound, as long as your promissory note, mortgage and the lease are structured appropriately in accordance with Thai law you should be protected. The deed has to be in a Thai name but in the end whoever owns the Note really owns the property and the principal balance of this type of Note will never reduce.

[simon43]

would there be some incentive for the owner to have me killed so he/she gets the house or is there someway we can protect this by putting the lease in both my name and my girlfriend's name.

Better still, have the land lease contract put in the name of another foreigner whom you trust and who is not in Thailand, for example if you have family members back home such a brother. You can use a Power of Attorney to get their authorisation on the various land lease documents that need to be signed at the amphur. With the land leased for 30 years by a family member back home, there is no incentive for the landowner to get you 'eliminated'.

Of course, there may be an incentive for your brother to have you 'eliminated' if you go and build a palace on 'his' plot of land, but I leave you to solve that problem... It makes sense to build a modest house on the land

Simon

[Bpuumike]

Why not just pay much less than Thb10K from the likes of isaanlawyers for a definitive answer and the necessary documents?

[Bpuumike]

Why not just pay much less than Thb10K from the likes of isaanlawyers for a definitive answer and the necessary documents?

[keithkarmann]

I am fairly sure what happens with the land lease and I believe that with the Usufruct that my girlfriend would own the house and the land and I would have a 30 year lease on everything but exactly what is the difference with Superficies. Obviously getting married is not an option as any deal agreed between wife and husband is not legally binding, maybe I have missed something in the replies but we have gone a bit off the subject. Keith

[Robert2006]

Get an Attorney preferably a farang that speaks your language, it’s best for your complete understanding that you have all the documents translated into your language as well for your review because they will be in Thai. Here is an option that might work for you, your wife owns the property, you loan her the money to build it and you lease the home for 30 years from her.

As an example: Put the property in your wife’s name as sole owner, let’s say you use 3 million to buy the land and build the house, execute an interest only mortgage on the property in your name for that amount or you could adjust it up for inflation. Then set up your 30 year lease and rent the home from your wife for the exact amount of her interest only loan payment to you. It’s a wash so no money exchanges hands each month.

She owns the property you hold the mortgage with interest only payments so the mortgage balance never reduces. Eventually when the property sells the lien will have to be satisfied to clear and transfer the title (Chanoht) for the new owner and your Thai Will then determines who gets the proceeds from the sale but you have to have a Thai Will, executed in Thailand for that property. Make SURE your name is on the Chanoht as the lien holder (it will be written in Thai) and don’t lose that paperwork.

Yes in theory a good idea if I understand it rightly. Picture this-I buy the land and build the house and it is all in her name but I have got full use of the property for 30 years. Technically I pay rent and she pays me mortgage payments, the relationship gets a bit shaky and I visit the UK for a few weeks and when I return the house is full Thai people, what chance do I have of getting them out.

I have had experience with the police regarding a domestic disturbance and the police did not want to hear from me. I defended myself from a crazy knife wielding Thai woman with a piece of bamboo and it was me who got fined for assault.Have you got an answer for this? Come to think of it this could happen with all the house building ideas I have Keith

Wow, sorry to hear that. I guess that’s what happens sometimes in developing nations, there are risks, they can be minimized but not eliminated. However I think a remedy for that situation could be a clause written in the lease, something like:

For the duration of this lease the owner (lessor) understands and agrees that unless approved by the tenant (lessee) in writing and signed by both parties no persons, other than the lessee named herein shall be allowed to reside on the property. The owner further understands and agrees that the tenant shall have the exclusive right to terminate any agreements to reside on the property at the tenant’s sole discretion.

Whether you could enforce this or not is a question for an Attorney.

[thousandpercent]

This thread is full of horrible advice. Free legal counsel is usually worth much less than you pay for it. I can see from your comments, Keith, that you have some things in your favor, and I hope you take advantage of them. I'd like to ask you some questions, and then I think I can offer you some real help. Send me a private message with your phone number if you are interested in talking about it.

[UdonExpat]

A Usufruct is noted on the back of the chanote. Consequently, if there is a falling out and she wants to sell the land, and if she does find a buyer, the usufruct transfers with the sale. I don't know of any other use agreement that is noted on the land ownership document. The only time a usufruct can be entered on a chanote is when a transfer of ownership takes place. The usufruct allows you exclusive use of the land, with or without the owner of the land. Theoretically, you could rent or lease that use.

Living in a village if there is a falling out will probably not be possible. Consequently, I recommend buying land in or very near a provincial capital where there are other farang living. This way, you may be able to remain in your home if there is a falling out. Just because you could afford to move on if you loose your investment doesn't mean you shouldn't protect yourself as much as possible.

If your girlfriend is unwilling to live somewhere other than her village, move on. Good sex is relatively easy to find. A loving and committed partner is more important in the long run.

While there are numerous ways of holding/using property in Thailand, remember, we are visitors and, practically speaking, have less standing than locals when it comes to dealing with all levels of the bureaucracy. Keeping is simple is often the best approach.

[marcusd]

What I did with help of a solicitor...slightly different as I hace a business.

Loan her th e money. ..then register legally a mortgage over the and house so you are the bank. Make sure she paid the first three repayments.... then you have ten years topull the mortgage as a default.

You canlegally bequeatg a mortgage to your relatives and YOU are secured if things go sour. You can then the a lease if any sort because you are the bank so only the bank can kick you out

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jbrain]

When I bought the land I've built my house on I took also all possibilities in consideration and I knew I didn't want to go the company route,so I went to a lawyer for advise.

He explained to me that with a usufruct, lease or whatever similar construction, you will have a reason to die when they want the land.

Only way to avoid this reason to die is to have the owner of the land register a mortgage that you have funded. Make the value of the mortgage high enough that it includes land and house. Apart from that you can still have 3 year leases.

The mortgage is registered in your name on the back of the title deed, which you keep in your possession, and the " owner" can never sell the land as long as the mortgage isn't paid off.

If you die the mortgage beneficiary goes to your legal heirs.

Edited September 17, 2013 by jbrain

[rayongchelsea]

This thread is full of horrible advice. Free legal counsel is usually worth much less than you pay for it. I can see from your comments, Keith, that you have some things in your favor, and I hope you take advantage of them. I'd like to ask you some questions, and then I think I can offer you some real help. Send me a private message with your phone number if you are interested in talking about it.

Please explain why.

I have set up companies, used leases but usufrut is preferred.

Bought houses, condos land..

Keeping it simple is the best advice out there..

Please share, that is what forums are for..

It is not always just a financial decision..

Keith has som things in his favour..not many..

[ableguy]

If all you require is a 'secure' place to build a house and live out your life, and if you do not expect to live more than another 30 years..

Why not:

- Lease a suitable plot of land for 30 years. Your can legally lease this plot of land in your name only. The lease will be registered at the Amphur land office and you cannot be 'thrown' off the land so long as you continue to pay the monthly rental. You will have to pay a small land tax at time of lease registration which is based on the total lease amount over the 30 year period. But depending where you are located, leasing a nice plot of land should only cost you a few hundred $ per month. You pay this land rental on a monthly or quarterly basis - you do not need to pay the whole lease amount 'upfront'.

- Then build your dream house. Since you cannot pass on this house to anyone else after that 30 year period, (unless the landlord extends the lease, which is an unknown factor), it makes sense to build a modest house, not a palace.

So now you have a house that you own and a secure, 30 year land lease in your name only. Your GF (or anyone else) has zero legal claim on your house or the land lease. You save a load of money by not having to buy the land....

Simon

I like your plan Simon as I do not plan on living more than another 30 years. The only problem I can see is finding a suitable plot of land to lease within a 10-15 km distance of my girlfriend's parents house. As it may be easier to buy a plot, would it be a problem if I bought the plot in my girlfriend's name and then leased it from her. Would I still be secure if I was leasing from my girlfriend, technically it should not make any difference. I would have no problem leasing a plot from my girlfriend's father but there is no way I could live there if things went wrong. I do not plan on building a palace (it would be a palace by Thai standards) but it will have double brick walls and it will be a lot better than the house I am renting in Hang Dong. If my calculations are correct the cost of the build would be recovered in 3-4 years by not paying 180,000 Baht per year in rent. Obviously I would weigh up the cost of buying the land outright vs the cost of paying rent for the land, but I can't see me been around for 30 years so the rent would not be paid for that long.

For gods sake man get a lawywer are you too cheap ???

Keith

[Robert2006]

This thread is full of horrible advice. Free legal counsel is usually worth much less than you pay for it. I can see from your comments, Keith, that you have some things in your favor, and I hope you take advantage of them. I'd like to ask you some questions, and then I think I can offer you some real help. Send me a private message with your phone number if you are interested in talking about it.

I don’t believe anyone here is offering legal counsel, I would say we are just trying to help the man with some concepts for his consideration.

His home purchase issue can probably be accomplished a number of different ways; of course to protect himself he needs a professional to structure his transaction.

The question still has not been definitely answered, if you can offer some “real help” as you say, lets here it. How is it done?

[keithkarmann]

This thread is full of horrible advice. Free legal counsel is usually worth much less than you pay for it. I can see from your comments, Keith, that you have some things in your favor, and I hope you take advantage of them. I'd like to ask you some questions, and then I think I can offer you some real help. Send me a private message with your phone number if you are interested in talking about it.

I dont believe anyone here is offering legal counsel, I would say we are just trying to help the man with some concepts for his consideration.

His home purchase issue can probably be accomplished a number of different ways; of course to protect himself he needs a professional to structure his transaction.

The question still has not been definitely answered, if you can offer some real help as you say, lets here it. How is it done?

I did rush into buying a house in Thailand 5 years ago through a lawyer I thought I could trust but he tried to rip me off so this time I need to gather plenty of information before I see a lawyer and I will probably use Siam Legal or similar. Keith

[Robert2006]

This thread is full of horrible advice. Free legal counsel is usually worth much less than you pay for it. I can see from your comments, Keith, that you have some things in your favor, and I hope you take advantage of them. I'd like to ask you some questions, and then I think I can offer you some real help. Send me a private message with your phone number if you are interested in talking about it.

I dont believe anyone here is offering legal counsel, I would say we are just trying to help the man with some concepts for his consideration.

His home purchase issue can probably be accomplished a number of different ways; of course to protect himself he needs a professional to structure his transaction.

The question still has not been definitely answered, if you can offer some real help as you say, lets here it. How is it done?

I did rush into buying a house in Thailand 5 years ago through a lawyer I thought I could trust but he tried to rip me off so this time I need to gather plenty of information before I see a lawyer and I will probably use Siam Legal or similar. Keith

I think that is an excellent idea. Good luck.

[cheeryble]

At least you now have an legal excuse to avoid the most unnecessary mistake of all......getting married.

[keithkarmann]

At least you now have an legal excuse to avoid the most unnecessary mistake of all......getting married.

I do have another excuse as I told my girlfriend that for every hour she spends on the phone she has to teach me Thai (probably an impossible task) and I will not build the house and move within motorcycle range of her village until I can speak and understand Thai language. Keith

[Muhendis]

Hey Keithkarmann

There seems to be a multitude of common sense creeping out of the woodwork here. I wish I had the advantage of this knowledge eight years ago. Things are fine for my wife and I out here on the farm although I have to confess to being a little concerned about the possibility of my wife's demise before mine. She loves me to bits but the rest of the family? Hmmmm!

The question of having a cavity wall.

1. It will cost a little more.
2. It will make your air con cheaper to run.
3. Use "normal" red bricks. They will support shelves etc.

I have a well and a borehole which, together with a filtration plant, give me all the water I could wish for although coming out of the ground its cold (Brrrr). My electricity supply was a problem because, being 1kM from the last post, the voltage is randomly variable. Also being a temporary supply it costs twice as much as the normal rate. I have since installed solar power. Sewage is with a septic tank and costs 250 Baht per year to empty.

[MacChine]

Seems maybe better to just well, you know..... temporary companions and get a maid a few times a week, eat out. Be a lot cheaper in the end.

cause I fear you are going to get it, alright.

Rent. Rent cheap and rent often.

Snippet

PS - I forgot to mention that you should check that the land is chanote, Nor Sor 3 Gor or nor Sor 3 title. Anything else (eg agriculural titled land) and the local Amphur department might not give you permission to build a residential house on the land

Thanks everyone I am getting some usefull info here,firstly I will reply to Simon. I mentioned renting the land to my girlfriend and her face dropped, then I said we need to be 10-15 kms from her family and she said nobody would come to visit and I said yes with a smile.The idea is that she can visit them and give me a bit of peace as she does once a month now. I have no objections to leaving all my Thai assets to my girlfriend but while I am here I want full control (well almost full control). I will only be spending what I can afford to lose. Yes her parents will not be too happy but they get enough out of me anyway. Time will tell if the girlfriend sticks around with the land lease and the house all in my name. As I see it and most will agree with me if they need you for money they will stick around and yes renting can be a better way but having lost my dream home in Crete due to my wife getting killed I need the challenge of building a house. At least I have not had any negative comments to my post.I will get my girlfriend to put the word out in her village that we are looking for a plot of land to lease and hope we get some suitable offers. Assuming that we get the rented land in my name and the house built in my name and we do not get legally married then there would be no point in her getting me bumped off as she would have nothing to gain. Yes I will check if the land can be legally built on.One more point you said that the land owner will get the house after 30 years or when I die, would there be some incentive for the owner to have me killed so he/she gets the house or is there someway we can protect this by putting the lease in both my name and my girlfriend's name.

Keith

[mrmazinkle]

A Usufruct is noted on the back of the chanote. Consequently, if there is a falling out and she wants to sell the land, and if she does find a buyer, the usufruct transfers with the sale. I don't know of any other use agreement that is noted on the land ownership document. The only time a usufruct can be entered on a chanote is when a transfer of ownership takes place. The usufruct allows you exclusive use of the land, with or without the owner of the land. Theoretically, you could rent or lease that use.

Living in a village if there is a falling out will probably not be possible. Consequently, I recommend buying land in or very near a provincial capital where there are other farang living. This way, you may be able to remain in your home if there is a falling out. Just because you could afford to move on if you loose your investment doesn't mean you shouldn't protect yourself as much as possible.

If your girlfriend is unwilling to live somewhere other than her village, move on. Good sex is relatively easy to find. A loving and committed partner is more important in the long run.

While there are numerous ways of holding/using property in Thailand, remember, we are visitors and, practically speaking, have less standing than locals when it comes to dealing with all levels of the bureaucracy. Keeping is simple is often the best approach.

As an Udon expat you should be aware that the land office in Udon is no longer issuing Usufructs.I have read on other forums Udon not being the only province...When a policeman friend of mine rang them(last week) they simply said "we don't want to do it" Mai yak hi"..I believe the the land officer in charge has discretionary power ....although this is the (law?) of the land in Thailand.At the end of the day its on the whim of some government official...TIT..faarang buyers beware...

Edited September 19, 2013 by mrmazinkle

[cheeryble]

As an Udon expat you should be aware that the land office in Udon is no longer issuing Usufructs.I have read on other forums Udon not being the only province...When a policeman friend of mine rang them(last week) they simply said "we don't want to do it" Mai yak hi"..I believe the the land officer in charge has discretionary power ....although this is the (law?) of the land in Thailand.At the end of the day its on the whim of some government official...TIT..faarang buyers beware...

Good point mrmazinkle, though this is by no means ubiquitous.

I was actually recommended by the head of a land office near Chiangmai "why don't you do it like this?" and recommended the usufruct.

To the OP....IMO it is not appropriate to put anything in the name of someone you've known for....what?....a year or so?

Simply explain the facts of life, that you will give as you receive, ie according to what she has contributed at any given stage (which will obviously change as time goes on), and unless she's 18 and you're 80 keep the cards in your own hands.

Edited September 19, 2013 by cheeryble

[keithkarmann]

As an Udon expat you should be aware that the land office in Udon is no longer issuing Usufructs.I have read on other forums Udon not being the only province...When a policeman friend of mine rang them(last week) they simply said "we don't want to do it" Mai yak hi"..I believe the the land officer in charge has discretionary power ....although this is the (law?) of the land in Thailand.At the end of the day its on the whim of some government official...TIT..faarang buyers beware...

Good point mrmazinkle, though this is by no means ubiquitous.

I was actually recommended by the head of a land office near Chiangmai "why don't you do it like this?" and recommended the usufruct.

To the OP....IMO it is not appropriate to put anything in the name of someone you've known for....what?....a year or so?

Simply explain the facts of life, that you will give as you receive, ie according to what she has contributed at any given stage (which will obviously change as time goes on), and unless she's 18 and you're 80 keep the cards in your own hands.

I think I previously mentioned that when I told the girlfriend that I would like to lease some land from another party then build the house and have everything in my name, that her face dropped when she realised that she would not be getting a piece of land as a present. I did have a miserable face from her for a couple of days. She must have been thinking of some way of retaliation and last night she told me she did not want so much boom boom. Naturally I said do not go there and as she was trying to use sex as a tool that the house would not be getting built as the last thing I want is to build a house in the middle of nowhere and have my girlfriend stop my favourite pastime. I must admit that the promise of the house was earlier in the relationship in the throws of passion. I guess it is nothing to do with the topic but I told her where the door was if she wanted to change the terms of our relationship,as they say no honey,no money. I will probably be in touch with number two very soon to be the new number one. I guess I may as well close this topic and thank everybody for their help and especially those who have warned me about the pitfalls.I am still learning about the relationship problems that can occur but I have been very lucky so far in that I have not lost too much money and as my experience grows I will be less likely to lose out in the future.I guess the worst thing that could happen in a few weeks time that she could say she is having my baby but I would still not build the house. Keith

[simon43]

...that her face dropped when she realised that she would not be getting a piece of land as a present

You maybe saved yourself a fortune.....

I lost quite a few million baht over the past 12 years by listening to what my wives said to me. Nowadays (and happily divorced), I only care for one person => me

It's saved me a whole load of wasted time and wasted cash

Simon