Run a profitable bar/restaurant?

[mogandave]

Wow, another hot-ass restaurant with no parking in an out-of-the-way location that provides crappy, overpriced food, served cold by poorly supervised staff with the obnoxious owner sitting at the bar getting hammered everyday wondering why he is not getting rich. Oh-boy.

Unless you’re targeting the low end of the market:

You have to have a good location

You have to provide a nice atmosphere

You have to serve good food

You have to provide foo hot, and in a timely manner

You have to have clean, well dressed staff

You have to provide clean, nice, well equipped bathrooms.

I live in an industrial area and see a lot of restaurants come and go catering primarily to the higher end lunch crowd. A lot of them had good food, but none of them could put a meal out quickly enough to make it back to the plant on time. Regardless of how good the food is, no one wants to lose their job to eat there.

Also, if I have to eat in the heat, I’d just a soon save a hundred or two and grab something off a cart to carry back to the office.

If the bathroom the customer has to use is dirty and or poorly maintained, what do you think the kitchen looks like?

[arthurwait]

Whats the problem ?

Stick a bar in a shophouse.

Maybe stick some mirrors on the wall, of course have a football shirt or your flag on the wall, don't get any different beers or spirits or wines to the other 200 bars you are surrounded by.

Of course remember to open it in a tourist spot next to 200 exactly the same empty bars with no customers or open it in deepest Esarn where no one has any money Thai or Farang.

Actually make sure your bar or restaurant shows absolutely no imagination at all, but remember to get some ugly Esarn birds in to hassle your customers for money and be rude to them when they don't get any, but of course this will allow you to live out your fantasy of being surrounded by younger women who secretly want you until your new wife kicks you out or hires some guys to pretend they are hired by business rivals to get rid of you and lose everything.

See it's so simple, everyone that's never run a business before can do it.

[Tchooptip]

If a farang owns with his Thai wife a little resort of lets say 4 bungalows for instance he cannot works in it?

For instance take care of the garden? A little painting here and there? Is he bound to have Thai employees when the couple can easily do all the work both of them?

[Gsxrnz]

I've lost count of the number of Falang bar and restaurant owners in Pattaya that have done their dough and have either gone home with their tail between their legs, spend their days lamenting to anybody who will listen about how much money they lost......or still own the bar/restaurant/guesthouse and every customer is a potential purchaser that they try to con into buying it.

When you talk to these guys, their typical background is that they worked 35 or 40 years as an employee in a manual type trade at home, are "union" men (bugger the boss syndrome), rarely had any management or staff supervisory roles, have never employed or recruited staff, never EVER taken any financial risk where their success depends on their own efforts, know less than nothing about small business practices such as stock management, cashflow, margins etc,

So it's little surprise that when they come to a foreign country with literally their life savings, can't speak the language, don't know <deleted> about business, don't know <deleted> about the system in Thailand, and think they can run a successful business.......that their bubble takes as long to burst as their savings lasts.

The only successful businesses that I"ve come across are the ones run by guys that have done the same thing in their own country and are traditional self employed characters - they know the risks and know the business, and are aware of what they're getting into. At least they know the basics and can largely adapt to local practices.

I'm afraid a retired Telco technician from Dipshit City, Nebraska (or Aussie or Norway) doesn't really have much of a chance of making money, or in fact retaining the value of the original investment.

[cpofc]

I've lost count of the number of Falang bar and restaurant owners in Pattaya that have done their dough and have either gone home with their tail between their legs, spend their days lamenting to anybody who will listen about how much money they lost......or still own the bar/restaurant/guesthouse and every customer is a potential purchaser that they try to con into buying it.

When you talk to these guys, their typical background is that they worked 35 or 40 years as an employee in a manual type trade at home, are "union" men (bugger the boss syndrome), rarely had any management or staff supervisory roles, have never employed or recruited staff, never EVER taken any financial risk where their success depends on their own efforts, know less than nothing about small business practices such as stock management, cashflow, margins etc,

So it's little surprise that when they come to a foreign country with literally their life savings, can't speak the language, don't know <deleted> about business, don't know <deleted> about the system in Thailand, and think they can run a successful business.......that their bubble takes as long to burst as their savings lasts.

The only successful businesses that I"ve come across are the ones run by guys that have done the same thing in their own country and are traditional self employed characters - they know the risks and know the business, and are aware of what they're getting into. At least they know the basics and can largely adapt to local practices.

I'm afraid a retired Telco technician from Dipshit City, Nebraska (or Aussie or Norway) doesn't really have much of a chance of making money, or in fact retaining the value of the original investment.

Outstanding Post!!! (but you'll never stop them)

The romantic notion of Bar Owning in South East Asia. They have even made movies about it. There is a little bit of Rick in 'Casablanca' in all of us I guess.

I was 22 YO when a mate and I thought about chucking in our lot and seriously contemplated buying the 'Yellow Brick Road' Bar at the top end of M H Del Pilar Street, Ermita, Manila. Prior to the sex tourist and mail order bride boom.

Smartest thing I never did. Without doubt.

I frequented them and drank in them all my life and I can count on one hand, with change, those that survived and/or thrived. Those who did almost always had a loyal, smart, diligent, honest, connected, local behind the scenes running the shop, and these people are not easy to come by.

[Gsxrnz]

I've lost count of the number of Falang bar and restaurant owners in Pattaya that have done their dough and have either gone home with their tail between their legs, spend their days lamenting to anybody who will listen about how much money they lost......or still own the bar/restaurant/guesthouse and every customer is a potential purchaser that they try to con into buying it.

When you talk to these guys, their typical background is that they worked 35 or 40 years as an employee in a manual type trade at home, are "union" men (bugger the boss syndrome), rarely had any management or staff supervisory roles, have never employed or recruited staff, never EVER taken any financial risk where their success depends on their own efforts, know less than nothing about small business practices such as stock management, cashflow, margins etc,

So it's little surprise that when they come to a foreign country with literally their life savings, can't speak the language, don't know <deleted> about business, don't know <deleted> about the system in Thailand, and think they can run a successful business.......that their bubble takes as long to burst as their savings lasts.

The only successful businesses that I"ve come across are the ones run by guys that have done the same thing in their own country and are traditional self employed characters - they know the risks and know the business, and are aware of what they're getting into. At least they know the basics and can largely adapt to local practices.

I'm afraid a retired Telco technician from Dipshit City, Nebraska (or Aussie or Norway) doesn't really have much of a chance of making money, or in fact retaining the value of the original investment.

Outstanding Post!!! (but you'll never stop them)

The romantic notion of Bar Owning in South East Asia. They have even made movies about it. There is a little bit of Rick in 'Casablanca' in all of us I guess.

I was 22 YO when a mate and I thought about chucking in our lot and seriously contemplated buying the 'Yellow Brick Road' Bar at the top end of M H Del Pilar Street, Ermita, Manila. Prior to the sex tourist and mail order bride boom.

Smartest thing I never did. Without doubt.

I frequented them and drank in them all my life and I can count on one hand, with change, those that survived and/or thrived. Those who did almost always had a loyal, smart, diligent, honest, connected, local behind the scenes running the shop, and these people are not easy to come by.

I agree that they'll never stop doing it, there's a bit of the romantic in all of us as you say.

I actually considered buying a small bar just for the hell of it. Make it more like a social club with no expectation of making money, just do it to keep myself busy and a place to call "home" for a good bunch of friends, and at least save the margin on my own alcohol consumption.

Did a comprehensive budget and even with outrageously positive expectations on sales,concluded that the Messiah would be appearing long before I turned over a profit. The latest model showed that I'd have to contribute 10k Baht per month to the working capital to keep it afloat. Based on COF, lost investment opportunity, and contributed capital, I could successfully have turned 2M Baht into 1M Baht in 2 years, and into nothing at all in 3-4 years......now that's how to make a small fortune in Thailand!!

[cpofc]

I've lost count of the number of Falang bar and restaurant owners in Pattaya that have done their dough and have either gone home with their tail between their legs, spend their days lamenting to anybody who will listen about how much money they lost......or still own the bar/restaurant/guesthouse and every customer is a potential purchaser that they try to con into buying it.

When you talk to these guys, their typical background is that they worked 35 or 40 years as an employee in a manual type trade at home, are "union" men (bugger the boss syndrome), rarely had any management or staff supervisory roles, have never employed or recruited staff, never EVER taken any financial risk where their success depends on their own efforts, know less than nothing about small business practices such as stock management, cashflow, margins etc,

So it's little surprise that when they come to a foreign country with literally their life savings, can't speak the language, don't know <deleted> about business, don't know <deleted> about the system in Thailand, and think they can run a successful business.......that their bubble takes as long to burst as their savings lasts.

The only successful businesses that I"ve come across are the ones run by guys that have done the same thing in their own country and are traditional self employed characters - they know the risks and know the business, and are aware of what they're getting into. At least they know the basics and can largely adapt to local practices.

I'm afraid a retired Telco technician from Dipshit City, Nebraska (or Aussie or Norway) doesn't really have much of a chance of making money, or in fact retaining the value of the original investment.

Outstanding Post!!! (but you'll never stop them)

The romantic notion of Bar Owning in South East Asia. They have even made movies about it. There is a little bit of Rick in 'Casablanca' in all of us I guess.

I was 22 YO when a mate and I thought about chucking in our lot and seriously contemplated buying the 'Yellow Brick Road' Bar at the top end of M H Del Pilar Street, Ermita, Manila. Prior to the sex tourist and mail order bride boom.

Smartest thing I never did. Without doubt.

I frequented them and drank in them all my life and I can count on one hand, with change, those that survived and/or thrived. Those who did almost always had a loyal, smart, diligent, honest, connected, local behind the scenes running the shop, and these people are not easy to come by.

I agree that they'll never stop doing it, there's a bit of the romantic in all of us as you say.

I actually considered buying a small bar just for the hell of it. Make it more like a social club with no expectation of making money, just do it to keep myself busy and a place to call "home" for a good bunch of friends, and at least save the margin on my own alcohol consumption.

Did a comprehensive budget and even with outrageously positive expectations on sales,concluded that the Messiah would be appearing long before I turned over a profit. The latest model showed that I'd have to contribute 10k Baht per month to the working capital to keep it afloat. Based on COF, lost investment opportunity, and contributed capital, I could successfully have turned 2M Baht into 1M Baht in 2 years, and into nothing at all in 3-4 years......now that's how to make a small fortune in Thailand!!

A little story for you. My (Thai) Sister In Law is one of the most decent, honest persons you would ever want to meet. She lives in the states, is married to an American, 3 kids, eldest just finished his 1st year of college,

Back in 83? 84? my wife to be and I lived in Sukhumvit 22. My SIL was going to Uni in BKK and would come and stay with us during holidays. As her Uni Course was finishing up she went job seeking. Two Brit blokes who owned the Rufifi Bar in Patpong decided to expand and diversify and bought a place in 'Washington Square' (Soi 22) and called it 'The Expats Retreat'. A new Genre of Bar. It was a forerunner of the 'Sports Bars' we see today. VHS Tapes sent from overseas with sports. Eats, Dart boards Etc., No girls for sale.

One fine afternoon, Mm SIS walked in, out of the blue, and asked for a job, and got one. Cashier, straight of the bat!

Not long after, she came home one day, very upset, and confided in us that she had been put in a very compromising position and she felt very bad about it. Not to mention a little scared.

The 'Docket Books' - The Bar Chits that are universally used. They needed to order some. (there were no department stores, tescos etc like we know them today). I can't remember the exact prices but lets say they were 10 baht each. But the (farang) Bar Owners were ALL charged and invoiced at 20 Baht each. The illicit profits to be shared between the printer/supplier, the cashier and whoever else that was in on it.

My SIS point blank refused to be part of it, or take the money. She was told in no uncertain terms to take the money and to keep her mouth shut, or her job may not be the only thing she loses!

She did as she was told. And that is just about Bar Chits <deleted>! You can imagine what else what going on. With the Farangs totally ignorant.

She stayed there when Doug Harrison bought it off the two Poms and turned it into 'Bourbon Street Restaurant', which she managed for quite a few years.

The two Poms, if I rmember correctly, went broke after getting mixed up in the infamous 'Prawn Farming' Ventures of the day.

[edwinchester]

Friend of the wifes has a highend restaurant and seems to be doing very well but has very little competition. He also has a very nice resort that gives him an excellent return.

He works extremely hard and has identified exactly who he wants as his customers.

His biggest moan seems to be the quality of and retaining of staff.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

There's always somebody who know some hi-so big wig.

Load if rubbish.

He's not hi-so. Just identified the market he wanted to aim at, worked very hard and seems to have succeeded in what he does.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kevvy]

Running a restaurant/bar in any country is very hard, let alone make money. Add to that the fact you can't work in it and are required to have a minimum number of employees, and can own only 49% of it...

Now in Thailand try to find solid, steady employees who will actually be dependable.

Now find employees who are honest because you can't spend every waking hour there and there is access to cash and booze.

Fight the Thai culture. Go to any 7-11 and see how many are just standing around. Same same in the shops in the mall.

The minute you turn your back you will have disappointed customers because service and organization will fall apart as will your instructions about preparing food.

I have yet to find a good Western style restaurant in Thailand that can serve 5 people their meals as ordered and at the same time, or even care about it. I'm not talking about the highest end hotel restaurants; I'm talking about the kind of place you most likely would rent and "own."

Good luck.

This is so true. Its a cultural things, Thais are actually quite complacent people. If they have a job, few strive to do that job to the best of their abilities. I recent visited a cafe in Chiang Mai and there was a rather pretty girl walking around for 45 minutes with a plate, when asked by the Dutch Owner, what she was doing, she said with a giggle, she forgot what she was doing. When your up against that, running a profitable business is an uphill struggle and isn't worth the bother frankly.

what a load of <deleted> crap walking around for 45 minutes.... get a life with your millions you have .

Edited September 21, 2013 by kevvy

[farang000999]

It is possible. Just look at the ten million chain franchises operating in Thailand. Thais seem capable of cooking Western fast food that tastes exactly the same as it does in every country. The key is creating systems. Look at Sunrise taco and you can see that operates rather smoothly.