Phuket: Naughty abbot caught on camera in sex romp

[Briandajew]

I am shocked and abhorred by the 95% of ignorant posters on this thread. Shame on all of you.

You don't have to believe in any religion - your choice - but there is absolutely no justification to jump on the hate monk bandwagon in this or any other recently publicised misdemeanours.

I admit that ocassionally revelations are horrific and if true are indefendable...... but could be compared to similar atrocities of the cloth in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism et al.

There are miscreants in EVERY religion..... And in every walk of life, family, community, ethnicity, nationality, politics, and government.

To make such sweeping judgements here just exposes ones self as a complete ignoramus in my humble opinion.

One or two, or five or ten wayward or even criminal monks balanced against hundreds of thousands of dedicated Buddhists. Do the percentages and compare with the other religions waging war against each other across the planet!

I tend to agree with you to be honest, the Catholic Church has done a lot more harm than any religion here.

The problem I have with the so called Bhuddism here is it is in fact complete bullshit, but like most things in Thailand it is a layer of shit covered in a fine smear of Gold, scratch the surface and the rot is there.

It is the way it is revered that makes it so sickening, how poor people are virtually strong armed into coughing up their pennies to hand over to the almost unemployable types that seem to end up in a temple.

Of course, it is backed 110% by the "establishment" because it is actually a MASSIVE money earner for a very few select people, and it all revolves around the support for these "People" - this is where the merit comes in.....you would not want to be a Thai and criticize....maybe your entire family name would disappear.

Funny though in some of the villages around where I am in the North, there has been some rather RADICAL steps taken by locals.....burning photos and placards....pretty serious stuff when you can end up in jail for 20 years!

So it isn't just about religion here, it is about the culture, about heirachy and about treating people as people and equals, but it still seems that some people think they are above everyone else, hopefully, one day, their time will come.

This is why this kind of thing is being spread by the social media, I finally hope people are waking up to the shit they have had to put up with, people are starting to want accountability! and it is a bloody good thing!

[mdmayes]

Video has been pulled...big brother at work.

[mdmayes]

"One adherent warned that those distributing the video would be sued."

That's Thailand! Shoot the messenger and cross fingers it was a farrang!

Video has been pulled. Looks like the threat has worked.

[bbbbooboo]

...ummmm...I'm thoroughly disgusted by this . I will never give a monk 20 baht again

[indyuk]

I'm surprised that so many are unaware (or unnecessarily discreet) of the fact that there are many temples around Thailand where distressed and / or frustrated Thai wives can go for intimate resolution of their plight. One can't be more frank than that in Thailand. However an anglicised explanation 'the wife can receive repeated therapeutic seeing too's as she was hoping to receive'.

[kannot]

I am shocked and abhorred by the 95% of ignorant posters on this thread. Shame on all of you.

You don't have to believe in any religion - your choice - but there is absolutely no justification to jump on the hate monk bandwagon in this or any other recently publicised misdemeanours.

I admit that ocassionally revelations are horrific and if true are indefendable...... but could be compared to similar atrocities of the cloth in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism et al.

There are miscreants in EVERY religion..... And in every walk of life, family, community, ethnicity, nationality, politics, and government.

To make such sweeping judgements here just exposes ones self as a complete ignoramus in my humble opinion.

One or two, or five or ten wayward or even criminal monks balanced against hundreds of thousands of dedicated Buddhists. Do the percentages and compare with the other religions waging war against each other across the planet!

The problem is its all based on "belief" with no proof yet proclaimed as truth, that's my grudge against it, you dont need ANY religion or Buddhism to be a decent person. Rebirth??? nonsense.

[kannot]

I am shocked and abhorred by the 95% of ignorant posters on this thread. Shame on all of you.

You don't have to believe in any religion - your choice - but there is absolutely no justification to jump on the hate monk bandwagon in this or any other recently publicised misdemeanours.

I admit that ocassionally revelations are horrific and if true are indefendable...... but could be compared to similar atrocities of the cloth in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism et al.

There are miscreants in EVERY religion..... And in every walk of life, family, community, ethnicity, nationality, politics, and government.

To make such sweeping judgements here just exposes ones self as a complete ignoramus in my humble opinion.

One or two, or five or ten wayward or even criminal monks balanced against hundreds of thousands of dedicated Buddhists. Do the percentages and compare with the other religions waging war against each other across the planet!

Every religion IS a miscreant.

[tingtongteesood]

I've heard of 'bashing the bishop' but....

[kannot]

I am shocked and abhorred by the 95% of ignorant posters on this thread. Shame on all of you.

You don't have to believe in any religion - your choice - but there is absolutely no justification to jump on the hate monk bandwagon in this or any other recently publicised misdemeanours.

I admit that ocassionally revelations are horrific and if true are indefendable...... but could be compared to similar atrocities of the cloth in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism et al.

There are miscreants in EVERY religion..... And in every walk of life, family, community, ethnicity, nationality, politics, and government.

To make such sweeping judgements here just exposes ones self as a complete ignoramus in my humble opinion.

One or two, or five or ten wayward or even criminal monks balanced against hundreds of thousands of dedicated Buddhists. Do the percentages and compare with the other religions waging war against each other across the planet!

Every religion IS a miscreant.

Except atheism which is ' Oh so holy'....

Not a religion

[cekipa]

Copied to VCD? What year are we in now?????

Should have been on a Floppy, isn't it ?

[jayjay2001]

Im surprised there isnt a furore every morning when they go round begging for food, so much a pick up has to follow them near me and then they all jump in and go back to the temple puffing on their fags.

The whole thing is a farce.....................yet the gullible fall over themselves and cough up endless amounts of money to build "yet another monument to stupidity"

Wow - such total ignorance of what buddhism is about. If you don't like it, fine, but I doubt you have ever even read a book on the subject.

I agree on one thing - modern Buddhism appears more and more "ill" - but the concept of alms giving is not part of the sickness. And monks don't "beg", it has nothing to do with begging. Just a quote from wiki about alms giving:

In Buddhism, alms or almsgiving is the respect given by a lay Buddhist to a Buddhist monk, nun, spiritually-developed person or other sentient being. It is not charity as presumed by Western interpreters. It is closer to a symbolic connection to the spiritual realm and to show humbleness and respect in the presence of the secular society.^{[note 1]} The act of alms giving assists in connecting the human to the monk or nun and what he/she represents. As the Buddha has stated:

Householders & the homeless or charity [monastics]

in mutual dependence

both reach the true Dhamma....

—Itivuttaka 4.7^{[1][note 2]}

Kannot,

It's a long message; but, it is in response to your post; so, maybe you'll spend the time to read it, if you wish.

I spent time living at a forest monastery here in Thailand, and ordained as a monk during some of that time. As Pete66 says, going out on pindbat (alms rounds for food in the morning), is simply not begging: It is a practice of humilty, and, it is actually a way for monks to allow people to gain merit by providing the monks with food. Many monks prefer not to have too much food given to them because it's actually a hassle to deal with all of the food. Some monks even comment politely about it amongst themselves, that they just get too much food-- that they don't need all they get. Some of the overstocked non-perishables we had would go to the local schools for the kids.

Before ordaining, I was one of those guys who, dressed in white, had to carry the heavy baskets full of food long distances until we got to the truck. I always wondered why the people giving the food couldn't realize how inconvenient and difficult it was for us (those of us carrying the food, heavy bottles of water, etc.). Sometimes, on certain days, e.g., Monk Day (Wan Pra), people would load us up with literally 4-5 shopping bags even though they saw we needed to carry this stuff some distances-- intead of bringing all the food to the Wat to gain their merit. I knew one monk where i was at that would not stay at the Wat where he could just get his food beause he felt it was his duty to go out on pindabat so people could gain merit. Trust me, you try going out in the rain at 5:30 in the morning-- walking barefoot on gravelled roads, side stepping dog dung and broken glass, walking through grease and dirt, in order to not only practice humiliity as is done in the Buddhist tradition this way and to, yes, obtain your one meal a day, but also to provide an opportunity for lay people to give to the monks so that they could gain merit; and, prior to going out on alms, waking up at 3:30 a.m. to go to prayers and meditation for almost an hour and a half, and then not having food after the morning meal (at least for the forest monks).

The forest monastery I was at had some pretty pure monks. There were only about 7 monks there (including me), but their practice was pretty pure. The monks there were very saddened by the condition of Buddhism in Thailand, i.e., monks like you hear about in the news, monks who do things like bless cars, etc., and monks who simply do not follow the true teachings of Buddha. Living the life of a true monk can be difficult: Getting up at 3:30 in the morning; eating only one meal a day; no sex (yes, some monks follow this); hours of prayer and chanting and meditation; deepening one's practice of disciplining the mind and the senses to understand the nature of oneself and reality (I'm talking about true monks here); no nightlife; eating cold food many days; eating the same kind of food day in and day out; sleeping on a hard floor, etc. Unfortunately, there are, for sure, simply too many monks who are not true monks. It is a shame. But, as I can contest, there are still some pure monks out there following Budda's teachings and discipline and living a simple life (and, I would say one that is difficult if the true path is being followed).

Just wanted to provide this post to offer another perspective about pindabat (going out on alms rounds)

JJ

[Bagwan]

Im surprised there isnt a furore every morning when they go round begging for food, so much a pick up has to follow them near me and then they all jump in and go back to the temple puffing on their fags.

The whole thing is a farce.....................yet the gullible fall over themselves and cough up endless amounts of money to build "yet another monument to stupidity"

Wow - such total ignorance of what buddhism is about. If you don't like it, fine, but I doubt you have ever even read a book on the subject.

I agree on one thing - modern Buddhism appears more and more "ill" - but the concept of alms giving is not part of the sickness. And monks don't "beg", it has nothing to do with begging. Just a quote from wiki about alms giving:

In Buddhism, alms or almsgiving is the respect given by a lay Buddhist to a Buddhist monk, nun, spiritually-developed person or other sentient being. It is not charity as presumed by Western interpreters. It is closer to a symbolic connection to the spiritual realm and to show humbleness and respect in the presence of the secular society.^{[note 1]} The act of alms giving assists in connecting the human to the monk or nun and what he/she represents. As the Buddha has stated:

Householders & the homeless or charity [monastics]

in mutual dependence

both reach the true Dhamma....

—Itivuttaka 4.7^{[1][note 2]}

Kannot,

It's a long message; but, it is in response to your post; so, maybe you'll spend the time to read it, if you wish.

I spent time living at a forest monastery here in Thailand, and ordained as a monk during some of that time. As Pete66 says, going out on pindbat (alms rounds for food in the morning), is simply not begging: It is a practice of humilty, and, it is actually a way for monks to allow people to gain merit by providing the monks with food. Many monks prefer not to have too much food given to them because it's actually a hassle to deal with all of the food. Some monks even comment politely about it amongst themselves, that they just get too much food-- that they don't need all they get. Some of the overstocked non-perishables we had would go to the local schools for the kids.

Before ordaining, I was one of those guys who, dressed in white, had to carry the heavy baskets full of food long distances until we got to the truck. I always wondered why the people giving the food couldn't realize how inconvenient and difficult it was for us (those of us carrying the food, heavy bottles of water, etc.). Sometimes, on certain days, e.g., Monk Day (Wan Pra), people would load us up with literally 4-5 shopping bags even though they saw we needed to carry this stuff some distances-- intead of bringing all the food to the Wat to gain their merit. I knew one monk where i was at that would not stay at the Wat where he could just get his food beause he felt it was his duty to go out on pindabat so people could gain merit. Trust me, you try going out in the rain at 5:30 in the morning-- walking barefoot on gravelled roads, side stepping dog dung and broken glass, walking through grease and dirt, in order to not only practice humiliity as is done in the Buddhist tradition this way and to, yes, obtain your one meal a day, but also to provide an opportunity for lay people to give to the monks so that they could gain merit; and, prior to going out on alms, waking up at 3:30 a.m. to go to prayers and meditation for almost an hour and a half, and then not having food after the morning meal (at least for the forest monks).

The forest monastery I was at had some pretty pure monks. There were only about 7 monks there (including me), but their practice was pretty pure. The monks there were very saddened by the condition of Buddhism in Thailand, i.e., monks like you hear about in the news, monks who do things like bless cars, etc., and monks who simply do not follow the true teachings of Buddha. Living the life of a true monk can be difficult: Getting up at 3:30 in the morning; eating only one meal a day; no sex (yes, some monks follow this); hours of prayer and chanting and meditation; deepening one's practice of disciplining the mind and the senses to understand the nature of oneself and reality (I'm talking about true monks here); no nightlife; eating cold food many days; eating the same kind of food day in and day out; sleeping on a hard floor, etc. Unfortunately, there are, for sure, simply too many monks who are not true monks. It is a shame. But, as I can contest, there are still some pure monks out there following Budda's teachings and discipline and living a simple life (and, I would say one that is difficult if the true path is being followed).

Just wanted to provide this post to offer another perspective about pindabat (going out on alms rounds)

JJ

Sounds like a career opportunity for a masochist. BTW I have never seen a monk practicing humility but I have seen plenty of Thai people showing overweening deference to the point of grovelling. Not so different to the case in Malta where it was common to see pregnant ladies giving up their seats on a bus to priests.

[HerbalEd]

How many wife's run into a f....g temple and ask for advise from those parasites. Mine come back from such a temple session - told me she's now enlighted. Now we are seperated.

Well then, there you go. Maybe she did indeed get enlightened.

Edited September 18, 2013 by HerbalEd

[StasD]

normal man, not gay, why not?

[fabianfred]

The abbot was no longer a monk...from the second his **** entered any orifice.

He is no longer a monk...even if he doesn't disrobe...he is just pretending to be one.... and extending his forthcoming rebirth in hell every second he does so.

IF this isn't a scam....there are some people who like to try and defame good monks out of jealousy.

[bander]

How many wife's run into a f....g temple and ask for advise from those parasites. Mine come back from such a temple session - told me she's now enlighted. Now we are seperated.

Same here, my ex spent all the money I gave her taking advise from a local abbot, now she is broke, unhappy and alone. (but the abbot got rich)

If I want her back?

Not in a million years :-)

[Considered Opinion]

I was hoping it was Tony Abbot.

Me too until I realised it was a woman which reduced the likelihood substantially..

Sent from God.

[bangkokpoppys]

He's got a bad abbot!

Sounds like an Offsping song....

Girls are rude, such attitude

But when I show my beads - complacency

Sometimes I feel like I am a god

... And I can't be bothered putting in the hashes and exclamations etc for te rest of the verse.

Ooh what scandal!

Surely the camera that caught this is in for a hiding?!!!

[slipperylobster]

Not surprising.... probably got tired from a long trip on a private jet and just wanted to tap the neighbors wife a bit.

[kirk0233]

Im surprised there isnt a furore every morning when they go round begging for food, so much a pick up has to follow them near me and then they all jump in and go back to the temple puffing on their fags.

The whole thing is a farce.....................yet the gullible fall over themselves and cough up endless amounts of money to build "yet another monument to stupidity"

Wow - such total ignorance of what buddhism is about. If you don't like it, fine, but I doubt you have ever even read a book on the subject.

I agree on one thing - modern Buddhism appears more and more "ill" - but the concept of alms giving is not part of the sickness. And monks don't "beg", it has nothing to do with begging. Just a quote from wiki about alms giving:

In Buddhism, alms or almsgiving is the respect given by a lay Buddhist to a Buddhist monk, nun, spiritually-developed person or other sentient being. It is not charity as presumed by Western interpreters. It is closer to a symbolic connection to the spiritual realm and to show humbleness and respect in the presence of the secular society.^{[note 1]} The act of alms giving assists in connecting the human to the monk or nun and what he/she represents. As the Buddha has stated:

Householders & the homeless or charity [monastics]

in mutual dependence

both reach the true Dhamma....

—Itivuttaka 4.7^{[1][note 2]}

Kannot,

It's a long message; but, it is in response to your post; so, maybe you'll spend the time to read it, if you wish.

I spent time living at a forest monastery here in Thailand, and ordained as a monk during some of that time. As Pete66 says, going out on pindbat (alms rounds for food in the morning), is simply not begging: It is a practice of humilty, and, it is actually a way for monks to allow people to gain merit by providing the monks with food. Many monks prefer not to have too much food given to them because it's actually a hassle to deal with all of the food. Some monks even comment politely about it amongst themselves, that they just get too much food-- that they don't need all they get. Some of the overstocked non-perishables we had would go to the local schools for the kids.

Before ordaining, I was one of those guys who, dressed in white, had to carry the heavy baskets full of food long distances until we got to the truck. I always wondered why the people giving the food couldn't realize how inconvenient and difficult it was for us (those of us carrying the food, heavy bottles of water, etc.). Sometimes, on certain days, e.g., Monk Day (Wan Pra), people would load us up with literally 4-5 shopping bags even though they saw we needed to carry this stuff some distances-- intead of bringing all the food to the Wat to gain their merit. I knew one monk where i was at that would not stay at the Wat where he could just get his food beause he felt it was his duty to go out on pindabat so people could gain merit. Trust me, you try going out in the rain at 5:30 in the morning-- walking barefoot on gravelled roads, side stepping dog dung and broken glass, walking through grease and dirt, in order to not only practice humiliity as is done in the Buddhist tradition this way and to, yes, obtain your one meal a day, but also to provide an opportunity for lay people to give to the monks so that they could gain merit; and, prior to going out on alms, waking up at 3:30 a.m. to go to prayers and meditation for almost an hour and a half, and then not having food after the morning meal (at least for the forest monks).

The forest monastery I was at had some pretty pure monks. There were only about 7 monks there (including me), but their practice was pretty pure. The monks there were very saddened by the condition of Buddhism in Thailand, i.e., monks like you hear about in the news, monks who do things like bless cars, etc., and monks who simply do not follow the true teachings of Buddha. Living the life of a true monk can be difficult: Getting up at 3:30 in the morning; eating only one meal a day; no sex (yes, some monks follow this); hours of prayer and chanting and meditation; deepening one's practice of disciplining the mind and the senses to understand the nature of oneself and reality (I'm talking about true monks here); no nightlife; eating cold food many days; eating the same kind of food day in and day out; sleeping on a hard floor, etc. Unfortunately, there are, for sure, simply too many monks who are not true monks. It is a shame. But, as I can contest, there are still some pure monks out there following Budda's teachings and discipline and living a simple life (and, I would say one that is difficult if the true path is being followed).

Just wanted to provide this post to offer another perspective about pindabat (going out on alms rounds)

JJ

Apart from providing an opportunity for people to make merit by giving monks food, how does a monk benefit society? I suppose the monks provide instruction in meditation? What other educational/spirutal service do they provide? This is an honest question. Additionally, I have found some Thais reluctant to give to charities or help others out because it is percieved that these acts will not provide merit. Is this a common asumption and how could monks counter this argument or should they?

Oh, one additional note, my wife spoke to a subordinate who wants to be a monk in Bangkok. He went to several temples and they all are charging him for this priviledge. They offered him "packages" ranging from 20,000 to 30,000 baht for a week as a monk. The difference in package cost was based on the attractiveness of the accomadations. Is this common practice - making money off of novices?

Edited September 19, 2013 by kirk0233

[khaowong1]

Whilst I know monks are supposed to remain celibate I think that is the most difficult thing for any man to do. Although he has broken his vows I hope (if he is otherwise a good monk) allowed to remain a monk if he stops seeing this lady.

Uty, there are 4 things that will get a monk kicked out. and one of those is having sex. If the video is true, there is no forgiveness of his actions as a monk. If the video is true, he will be asked to dis-robe. Period. If the video is true, he won't be allowed to remain a monk.

[jayjay2001]

Im surprised there isnt a furore every morning when they go round begging for food, so much a pick up has to follow them near me and then they all jump in and go back to the temple puffing on their fags.

The whole thing is a farce.....................yet the gullible fall over themselves and cough up endless amounts of money to build "yet another monument to stupidity"

Wow - such total ignorance of what buddhism is about. If you don't like it, fine, but I doubt you have ever even read a book on the subject.

I agree on one thing - modern Buddhism appears more and more "ill" - but the concept of alms giving is not part of the sickness. And monks don't "beg", it has nothing to do with begging. Just a quote from wiki about alms giving:

In Buddhism, alms or almsgiving is the respect given by a lay Buddhist to a Buddhist monk, nun, spiritually-developed person or other sentient being. It is not charity as presumed by Western interpreters. It is closer to a symbolic connection to the spiritual realm and to show humbleness and respect in the presence of the secular society.^{[note 1]} The act of alms giving assists in connecting the human to the monk or nun and what he/she represents. As the Buddha has stated:

Householders & the homeless or charity [monastics]

in mutual dependence

both reach the true Dhamma....

—Itivuttaka 4.7^{[1][note 2]}

Kannot,

It's a long message; but, it is in response to your post; so, maybe you'll spend the time to read it, if you wish.

I spent time living at a forest monastery here in Thailand, and ordained as a monk during some of that time. As Pete66 says, going out on pindbat (alms rounds for food in the morning), is simply not begging: It is a practice of humilty, and, it is actually a way for monks to allow people to gain merit by providing the monks with food. Many monks prefer not to have too much food given to them because it's actually a hassle to deal with all of the food. Some monks even comment politely about it amongst themselves, that they just get too much food-- that they don't need all they get. Some of the overstocked non-perishables we had would go to the local schools for the kids.

Before ordaining, I was one of those guys who, dressed in white, had to carry the heavy baskets full of food long distances until we got to the truck. I always wondered why the people giving the food couldn't realize how inconvenient and difficult it was for us (those of us carrying the food, heavy bottles of water, etc.). Sometimes, on certain days, e.g., Monk Day (Wan Pra), people would load us up with literally 4-5 shopping bags even though they saw we needed to carry this stuff some distances-- intead of bringing all the food to the Wat to gain their merit. I knew one monk where i was at that would not stay at the Wat where he could just get his food beause he felt it was his duty to go out on pindabat so people could gain merit. Trust me, you try going out in the rain at 5:30 in the morning-- walking barefoot on gravelled roads, side stepping dog dung and broken glass, walking through grease and dirt, in order to not only practice humiliity as is done in the Buddhist tradition this way and to, yes, obtain your one meal a day, but also to provide an opportunity for lay people to give to the monks so that they could gain merit; and, prior to going out on alms, waking up at 3:30 a.m. to go to prayers and meditation for almost an hour and a half, and then not having food after the morning meal (at least for the forest monks).

The forest monastery I was at had some pretty pure monks. There were only about 7 monks there (including me), but their practice was pretty pure. The monks there were very saddened by the condition of Buddhism in Thailand, i.e., monks like you hear about in the news, monks who do things like bless cars, etc., and monks who simply do not follow the true teachings of Buddha. Living the life of a true monk can be difficult: Getting up at 3:30 in the morning; eating only one meal a day; no sex (yes, some monks follow this); hours of prayer and chanting and meditation; deepening one's practice of disciplining the mind and the senses to understand the nature of oneself and reality (I'm talking about true monks here); no nightlife; eating cold food many days; eating the same kind of food day in and day out; sleeping on a hard floor, etc. Unfortunately, there are, for sure, simply too many monks who are not true monks. It is a shame. But, as I can contest, there are still some pure monks out there following Budda's teachings and discipline and living a simple life (and, I would say one that is difficult if the true path is being followed).

Just wanted to provide this post to offer another perspective about pindabat (going out on alms rounds)

JJ

Apart from providing an opportunity for people to make merit by giving monks food, how does a monk benefit society? I suppose the monks provide instruction in meditation? What other educational/spirutal service do they provide? This is an honest question. Additionally, I have found some Thais reluctant to give to charities or help others out because it is percieved that these acts will not provide merit. Is this a common asumption and how could monks counter this argument or should they?

Oh, one additional note, my wife spoke to a subordinate who wants to be a monk in Bangkok. He went to several temples and they all are charging him for this priviledge. They offered him "packages" ranging from 20,000 to 30,000 baht for a week as a monk. The difference in package cost was based on the attractiveness of the accomadations. Is this common practice - making money off of novices?

--Monks are the ones who maintain the temples. The head monks deal with all of the organizational and management stuff of the temple. The temple is important in Thai society. It gives Thais a center for their religion.

--Yes, monks also provide meditation instruction, as well as provide Dharma talks for the lay people (the temple I lived in had groups of persons come on the weekend). Monks are also a source of spiritual counseling for the people.

--In my understanding, providing charity in such situations you mentioned would bring about merit and result in "gam di" (good karma). The monks I knew and lived with would have told an individual that to give to charities, schools, etc. would be a good thing and would bring merit.

--I have never heard such a thing about the "packages" you mentioned. However, Buddhism is becoming so corrupt in Thailand, I don't doubt such things exist.

[timewilltell]

I am shocked and abhorred by the 95% of ignorant posters on this thread. Shame on all of you.

You don't have to believe in any religion - your choice - but there is absolutely no justification to jump on the hate monk bandwagon in this or any other recently publicised misdemeanours.

I admit that ocassionally revelations are horrific and if true are indefendable...... but could be compared to similar atrocities of the cloth in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism et al.

There are miscreants in EVERY religion..... And in every walk of life, family, community, ethnicity, nationality, politics, and government.

To make such sweeping judgements here just exposes ones self as a complete ignoramus in my humble opinion.

One or two, or five or ten wayward or even criminal monks balanced against hundreds of thousands of dedicated Buddhists. Do the percentages and compare with the other religions waging war against each other across the planet!

I think if a monk or a priest or imam is caught doing something like this it is akin to a teacher having sex with a student and deserves all the derision it gets. Religions mostly teach peace though there are elements of violence in all the teachings. The basic premise is of peace though and the teachings are imperfect because they are written by humans to enable control of other humans.

You can argue the hand of God directs the writings but mostly they are stories from times long ago to demonstrate principles for humans to exist peacefully together under the control of the religious leaders. Like politicians if they want to tell others how to live then they should set the example and if they cannot then they should be pilloried.

The abuse of religion to take people's money and trust to build huge and expensive structures or worse to steal the money for themselves is beyond disgraceful. That stops no one following the religios principles of their faith if they so choose but I don't think there is any way you can defend this sort of behavior exhibited by this so called abbot

[kirk0233]

Kannot,

It's a long message; but, it is in response to your post; so, maybe you'll spend the time to read it, if you wish.

I spent time living at a forest monastery here in Thailand, and ordained as a monk during some of that time. As Pete66 says, going out on pindbat (alms rounds for food in the morning), is simply not begging: It is a practice of humilty, and, it is actually a way for monks to allow people to gain merit by providing the monks with food. Many monks prefer not to have too much food given to them because it's actually a hassle to deal with all of the food. Some monks even comment politely about it amongst themselves, that they just get too much food-- that they don't need all they get. Some of the overstocked non-perishables we had would go to the local schools for the kids.

Before ordaining, I was one of those guys who, dressed in white, had to carry the heavy baskets full of food long distances until we got to the truck. I always wondered why the people giving the food couldn't realize how inconvenient and difficult it was for us (those of us carrying the food, heavy bottles of water, etc.). Sometimes, on certain days, e.g., Monk Day (Wan Pra), people would load us up with literally 4-5 shopping bags even though they saw we needed to carry this stuff some distances-- intead of bringing all the food to the Wat to gain their merit. I knew one monk where i was at that would not stay at the Wat where he could just get his food beause he felt it was his duty to go out on pindabat so people could gain merit. Trust me, you try going out in the rain at 5:30 in the morning-- walking barefoot on gravelled roads, side stepping dog dung and broken glass, walking through grease and dirt, in order to not only practice humiliity as is done in the Buddhist tradition this way and to, yes, obtain your one meal a day, but also to provide an opportunity for lay people to give to the monks so that they could gain merit; and, prior to going out on alms, waking up at 3:30 a.m. to go to prayers and meditation for almost an hour and a half, and then not having food after the morning meal (at least for the forest monks).

The forest monastery I was at had some pretty pure monks. There were only about 7 monks there (including me), but their practice was pretty pure. The monks there were very saddened by the condition of Buddhism in Thailand, i.e., monks like you hear about in the news, monks who do things like bless cars, etc., and monks who simply do not follow the true teachings of Buddha. Living the life of a true monk can be difficult: Getting up at 3:30 in the morning; eating only one meal a day; no sex (yes, some monks follow this); hours of prayer and chanting and meditation; deepening one's practice of disciplining the mind and the senses to understand the nature of oneself and reality (I'm talking about true monks here); no nightlife; eating cold food many days; eating the same kind of food day in and day out; sleeping on a hard floor, etc. Unfortunately, there are, for sure, simply too many monks who are not true monks. It is a shame. But, as I can contest, there are still some pure monks out there following Budda's teachings and discipline and living a simple life (and, I would say one that is difficult if the true path is being followed).

Just wanted to provide this post to offer another perspective about pindabat (going out on alms rounds)

JJ

Apart from providing an opportunity for people to make merit by giving monks food, how does a monk benefit society? I suppose the monks provide instruction in meditation? What other educational/spirutal service do they provide? This is an honest question. Additionally, I have found some Thais reluctant to give to charities or help others out because it is percieved that these acts will not provide merit. Is this a common asumption and how could monks counter this argument or should they?

Oh, one additional note, my wife spoke to a subordinate who wants to be a monk in Bangkok. He went to several temples and they all are charging him for this priviledge. They offered him "packages" ranging from 20,000 to 30,000 baht for a week as a monk. The difference in package cost was based on the attractiveness of the accomadations. Is this common practice - making money off of novices?

--Monks are the ones who maintain the temples. The head monks deal with all of the organizational and management stuff of the temple. The temple is important in Thai society. It gives Thais a center for their religion.

--Yes, monks also provide meditation instruction, as well as provide Dharma talks for the lay people (the temple I lived in had groups of persons come on the weekend). Monks are also a source of spiritual counseling for the people.

--In my understanding, providing charity in such situations you mentioned would bring about merit and result in "gam di" (good karma). The monks I knew and lived with would have told an individual that to give to charities, schools, etc. would be a good thing and would bring merit.

--I have never heard such a thing about the "packages" you mentioned. However, Buddhism is becoming so corrupt in Thailand, I don't doubt such things exist.

Thank you for your answer. Is there a hierarchy of merit making activity? I don't think I was clear in my previous question that I think some people believe that there is more merit attached to giving to the temple and monks than giving to a charity or other worthy cause. Is this perception that gifts to the temple produce maximum merit, all other things being equal, a prejudice you have experienced?

[jayjay2001]

Kannot,

It's a long message; but, it is in response to your post; so, maybe you'll spend the time to read it, if you wish.

I spent time living at a forest monastery here in Thailand, and ordained as a monk during some of that time. As Pete66 says, going out on pindbat (alms rounds for food in the morning), is simply not begging: It is a practice of humilty, and, it is actually a way for monks to allow people to gain merit by providing the monks with food. Many monks prefer not to have too much food given to them because it's actually a hassle to deal with all of the food. Some monks even comment politely about it amongst themselves, that they just get too much food-- that they don't need all they get. Some of the overstocked non-perishables we had would go to the local schools for the kids.

Before ordaining, I was one of those guys who, dressed in white, had to carry the heavy baskets full of food long distances until we got to the truck. I always wondered why the people giving the food couldn't realize how inconvenient and difficult it was for us (those of us carrying the food, heavy bottles of water, etc.). Sometimes, on certain days, e.g., Monk Day (Wan Pra), people would load us up with literally 4-5 shopping bags even though they saw we needed to carry this stuff some distances-- intead of bringing all the food to the Wat to gain their merit. I knew one monk where i was at that would not stay at the Wat where he could just get his food beause he felt it was his duty to go out on pindabat so people could gain merit. Trust me, you try going out in the rain at 5:30 in the morning-- walking barefoot on gravelled roads, side stepping dog dung and broken glass, walking through grease and dirt, in order to not only practice humiliity as is done in the Buddhist tradition this way and to, yes, obtain your one meal a day, but also to provide an opportunity for lay people to give to the monks so that they could gain merit; and, prior to going out on alms, waking up at 3:30 a.m. to go to prayers and meditation for almost an hour and a half, and then not having food after the morning meal (at least for the forest monks).

The forest monastery I was at had some pretty pure monks. There were only about 7 monks there (including me), but their practice was pretty pure. The monks there were very saddened by the condition of Buddhism in Thailand, i.e., monks like you hear about in the news, monks who do things like bless cars, etc., and monks who simply do not follow the true teachings of Buddha. Living the life of a true monk can be difficult: Getting up at 3:30 in the morning; eating only one meal a day; no sex (yes, some monks follow this); hours of prayer and chanting and meditation; deepening one's practice of disciplining the mind and the senses to understand the nature of oneself and reality (I'm talking about true monks here); no nightlife; eating cold food many days; eating the same kind of food day in and day out; sleeping on a hard floor, etc. Unfortunately, there are, for sure, simply too many monks who are not true monks. It is a shame. But, as I can contest, there are still some pure monks out there following Budda's teachings and discipline and living a simple life (and, I would say one that is difficult if the true path is being followed).

Just wanted to provide this post to offer another perspective about pindabat (going out on alms rounds)

JJ

Apart from providing an opportunity for people to make merit by giving monks food, how does a monk benefit society? I suppose the monks provide instruction in meditation? What other educational/spirutal service do they provide? This is an honest question. Additionally, I have found some Thais reluctant to give to charities or help others out because it is percieved that these acts will not provide merit. Is this a common asumption and how could monks counter this argument or should they?

Oh, one additional note, my wife spoke to a subordinate who wants to be a monk in Bangkok. He went to several temples and they all are charging him for this priviledge. They offered him "packages" ranging from 20,000 to 30,000 baht for a week as a monk. The difference in package cost was based on the attractiveness of the accomadations. Is this common practice - making money off of novices?

--Monks are the ones who maintain the temples. The head monks deal with all of the organizational and management stuff of the temple. The temple is important in Thai society. It gives Thais a center for their religion.

--Yes, monks also provide meditation instruction, as well as provide Dharma talks for the lay people (the temple I lived in had groups of persons come on the weekend). Monks are also a source of spiritual counseling for the people.

--In my understanding, providing charity in such situations you mentioned would bring about merit and result in "gam di" (good karma). The monks I knew and lived with would have told an individual that to give to charities, schools, etc. would be a good thing and would bring merit.

--I have never heard such a thing about the "packages" you mentioned. However, Buddhism is becoming so corrupt in Thailand, I don't doubt such things exist.

Thank you for your answer. Is there a hierarchy of merit making activity? I don't think I was clear in my previous question that I think some people believe that there is more merit attached to giving to the temple and monks than giving to a charity or other worthy cause. Is this perception that gifts to the temple produce maximum merit, all other things being equal, a prejudice you have experienced?

Don't know about the perception you inquire about. Perhaps you can post your question in the TV Buddhism forum, or talk to Thai persons about that. I didn't experience such a "prejudice," but, I didn't engage in much conversation the Thai lay people when I was at the Wat since my Thai language is limited. My knowledge is more about the practice of meditation and mindfullness.

[kannot]

Im surprised there isnt a furore every morning when they go round begging for food, so much a pick up has to follow them near me and then they all jump in and go back to the temple puffing on their fags.

The whole thing is a farce.....................yet the gullible fall over themselves and cough up endless amounts of money to build "yet another monument to stupidity"

Wow - such total ignorance of what buddhism is about. If you don't like it, fine, but I doubt you have ever even read a book on the subject.

I agree on one thing - modern Buddhism appears more and more "ill" - but the concept of alms giving is not part of the sickness. And monks don't "beg", it has nothing to do with begging. Just a quote from wiki about alms giving:

In Buddhism, alms or almsgiving is the respect given by a lay Buddhist to a Buddhist monk, nun, spiritually-developed person or other sentient being. It is not charity as presumed by Western interpreters. It is closer to a symbolic connection to the spiritual realm and to show humbleness and respect in the presence of the secular society.^{[note 1]} The act of alms giving assists in connecting the human to the monk or nun and what he/she represents. As the Buddha has stated:

Householders & the homeless or charity [monastics]

in mutual dependence

both reach the true Dhamma....

—Itivuttaka 4.7^{[1][note 2]}

Kannot,

It's a long message; but, it is in response to your post; so, maybe you'll spend the time to read it, if you wish.

I spent time living at a forest monastery here in Thailand, and ordained as a monk during some of that time. As Pete66 says, going out on pindbat (alms rounds for food in the morning), is simply not begging: It is a practice of humilty, and, it is actually a way for monks to allow people to gain merit by providing the monks with food. Many monks prefer not to have too much food given to them because it's actually a hassle to deal with all of the food. Some monks even comment politely about it amongst themselves, that they just get too much food-- that they don't need all they get. Some of the overstocked non-perishables we had would go to the local schools for the kids.

Before ordaining, I was one of those guys who, dressed in white, had to carry the heavy baskets full of food long distances until we got to the truck. I always wondered why the people giving the food couldn't realize how inconvenient and difficult it was for us (those of us carrying the food, heavy bottles of water, etc.). Sometimes, on certain days, e.g., Monk Day (Wan Pra), people would load us up with literally 4-5 shopping bags even though they saw we needed to carry this stuff some distances-- intead of bringing all the food to the Wat to gain their merit. I knew one monk where i was at that would not stay at the Wat where he could just get his food beause he felt it was his duty to go out on pindabat so people could gain merit. Trust me, you try going out in the rain at 5:30 in the morning-- walking barefoot on gravelled roads, side stepping dog dung and broken glass, walking through grease and dirt, in order to not only practice humiliity as is done in the Buddhist tradition this way and to, yes, obtain your one meal a day, but also to provide an opportunity for lay people to give to the monks so that they could gain merit; and, prior to going out on alms, waking up at 3:30 a.m. to go to prayers and meditation for almost an hour and a half, and then not having food after the morning meal (at least for the forest monks).

The forest monastery I was at had some pretty pure monks. There were only about 7 monks there (including me), but their practice was pretty pure. The monks there were very saddened by the condition of Buddhism in Thailand, i.e., monks like you hear about in the news, monks who do things like bless cars, etc., and monks who simply do not follow the true teachings of Buddha. Living the life of a true monk can be difficult: Getting up at 3:30 in the morning; eating only one meal a day; no sex (yes, some monks follow this); hours of prayer and chanting and meditation; deepening one's practice of disciplining the mind and the senses to understand the nature of oneself and reality (I'm talking about true monks here); no nightlife; eating cold food many days; eating the same kind of food day in and day out; sleeping on a hard floor, etc. Unfortunately, there are, for sure, simply too many monks who are not true monks. It is a shame. But, as I can contest, there are still some pure monks out there following Budda's teachings and discipline and living a simple life (and, I would say one that is difficult if the true path is being followed).

Just wanted to provide this post to offer another perspective about pindabat (going out on alms rounds)

JJ

I dont see the monks practicing any humility, just enjoying what theyve begged, there is absolutely no need for a big shiny temple, making merit by giving something?? surely much better would be by DOING something rather than hoping by giving cash food whatever but that would of course not help the new shiny temple so they opt for cash like the English "collection plate" again begging.

Monks by me walk VERY little, but at least its good to see that you realise that Thai Budshism on the whole is a joke.

I cant say I applaud the good monks because once again we are back to the "promise of eternal life"

Much better would be to teach a good way to live and say its more likely there is no afterlife but by being good helpful kind etc would create a much better society for EVERYONE to live in.

By me and from what I see all temples are pure money spinners all trying to outdo each other in shiny templeness, forever building a new monument.

Edited September 19, 2013 by kannot

[kannot]

Whilst I know monks are supposed to remain celibate I think that is the most difficult thing for any man to do. Although he has broken his vows I hope (if he is otherwise a good monk) allowed to remain a monk if he stops seeing this lady.

Uty, there are 4 things that will get a monk kicked out. and one of those is having sex. If the video is true, there is no forgiveness of his actions as a monk. If the video is true, he will be asked to dis-robe. Period. If the video is true, he won't be allowed to remain a monk.

He will probably go off change his name and start his own monastery promising all the "dumb" locals everything under the sun, who like sheep bleating will give it him.

[lostmebike]

Just another, normal day in Phuket right?

[fabianfred]

Thank you for your answer. Is there a hierarchy of merit making activity? I don't think I was clear in my previous question that I think some people believe that there is more merit attached to giving to the temple and monks than giving to a charity or other worthy cause. Is this perception that gifts to the temple produce maximum merit, all other things being equal, a prejudice you have experienced?

When I was a monk for two years I would always try and teach the laypeople that there are ten different ways to make merit....and the first and easiest of those is giving. The amount of merit gained from an act depends upon the giver and the receiver. e.g. A monk keeping 227 precepts is greater than a novice keeping ten precepts....but if that novice is doing his best whilst the monk isn't then the reverse is true. Giving to a child or beggar still makes merit....some Thais think only things to do with Buddhism count such as temples/monks. If you are giving with a pure heart, not hoping for anything in return then that acquires much merit, but if you do it for show or hoping to make merit to fill your merit bank then it is less.

Listening to Dhamma teachings, giving them, keeping the precepts, showing respect to parents/teachers/elderly, chanting, meditation ....these are ways to make even more merit...but they require more effort than simply giving.

The thai monks tend to stress giving, because that brings them benefits.

[fabianfred]

I dont see the monks practicing any humility, just enjoying what theyve begged, there is absolutely no need for a big shiny temple, making merit by giving something?? surely much better would be by DOING something rather than hoping by giving cash food whatever but that would of course not help the new shiny temple so they opt for cash like the English "collection plate" again begging.

Monks by me walk VERY little, but at least its good to see that you realise that Thai Budshism on the whole is a joke.

I cant say I applaud the good monks because once again we are back to the "promise of eternal life"

Much better would be to teach a good way to live and say its more likely there is no afterlife but by being good helpful kind etc would create a much better society for EVERYONE to live in.

By me and from what I see all temples are pure money spinners all trying to outdo each other in shiny templeness, forever building a new monument.

My first Thai teacher is a well-known monk with a huge following and a temple where many go to learn and practice meditation...(LP. Jaran @ Wat Amphawan). He said that he doesn't build temples anymore...he builds people....just building more temples for dogs to shit in is pointless.

Near me in Chiangrai is that big white temple...a huge tourist attraction...I'm not even sure if it has any resident monks. To me it is just a monumnet built to make money. You can still see new temples being built, and others getting chedis built or new Viharns etc....waste of space and money IMHO. The monks hardly ever practice therefore are unable to teach the real dhamma.

A farang monk friend came to visit the area from Malaysia and said that there are 400+ temples in Chiangrai province without any monks, and 300+ in Chiangmai province. I don't know what the figure is country-wide. Seems to me that they need to find more good monks than keep building more temples. Ordaining is not popular nowadays because of all the bad examples one sees and hears about, and the modern consumer society makes people want to have more instead of improving themselves. If the monks do not teach the people the true dhamma then they will see no reason to ordain.

The good monks who do know and are trying to practice to improve themselves are usually trying to distance themselves from all the rubbish, but that also means that they do not get to teach the people much. They too are exasperated by the corruption of Thai society and their interpretation of Buddhism, but it is an inevitable and unstoppable process.