FTA meeting Tapei Gate

[elektrified]

Fifty weeks of fourty hours of research a week would be two thousand hours of research. Have you really done months or years of full time research on these topics? If so, why? What do you think you will accomplish?

By the way, my father had type I diabetes and would have died in his early teens were it not for daily injections of insulin. I don't think the drug industry is lead by saints, but I'm glad we have access to modern medicines.

A minimum of ten hours a week for five years now. Many weeks it's been more.

For very good reasons. Firstly to fix a health problem of my own that mainstream doctors and specialists couldn't. Secondly to lead a healthy life out of the hands of the doctors and their pills. Increasingly many people are taking this option in life.

And thirdly i never set out to do that at all. It just happened that way as i discovered more and more bullshit we've been spun, and how lacking our education system is so that we could all make the right choices to live our lives with greater quality and quantity.

And i have accomplished a lot thanks!

It's a con that diabetics need insulin. You can take foods and herbs and gradually come of the insulin, never to need it again. But even better is to avoid getting diabetes in the first place. If people knew how it came about they could easily prevent it happening to them.

Modern medicines do their job, sometimes, but quality of life and cures are not their remit, nor their agenda.

Hundreds or thousands of hours of research and you are still profuoundly ignorant. Type 1 diabetes is a genetic condition that can't be cured with herbs, though I have no doubt you are willing encourage others to adopt a lethal alternative cure rather than admit you are wrong.

Obviously he/she does not understand the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes. Must have missed that somewhere in the research. AND not all cancers are preventable. Some are hereditary. Missed that one in the research as well.

[richard10365]

I think the problem is governments send representatives to negotiate complex trade deals requiring someone with a PhD along with tons of legal experts to negotiate for its citizens. The deals are made and sent back to their governments to be ratified. This is where the breakdown in communication begins. The ratification process brings all these trade and legal experts back to the parliament to argue for approval of the trade deal. Most government officials don't understand the fine details and are asked to trust their countries experts. The agreement gets ratified and the trade begins.

Meanwhile, back on the farm, the average farmer is unaware of what has transpired in the country's capital when along comes a government official informing them of new procedures or prices for their products. The farmer disagrees and so do all the farmers friends so they decide to protest.

The step that is missing in these free trade agreements is communication between the farmers and their governments. If it existed, most protests would most likely never happen.

[mamborobert]

We seem to have digressed a tad beyond Chiang Mai when we start having disertations on the effectiveness of medicines or the evils of multi national companies and on and on..

Perhaps one should stop a local Thai and ask if they too hanker for the good old days of rampant HIV, unsustainable birth control, malaria, high infant mortality rates, polio, untreatable malaria etc. No doubt they get a warm glow fondly recalling the needless suffering and death of loved ones.

Interesting article in nameless paper today that suggests that Thai INDUSTRY would suffer as a main producer of IP breach medications.....bad Thai capitalists.

This is the first of many hurdles for Thailand in not to distant future with ASEAN. Thailand is a land of subsidies and soon will have to compete not with the evil West but with their near neighbours and they are simply not ready.

This started off about a "relatively" (by Thai and international standards) low key protests about ALL IP being taken off discussions. Fortunately protesters I saw had thei Iphones, Samsung Galaxy Tabs and Nikon cameras to record this forgettable protest. I am all for Pharma and Agro products being taken off FTA but not all IP or copy right or patent material.

Locally I would have thought the ever popular yabba is the most harmful drug to self, family, community and nation. Protest about that by all means.....please.

Then again TIT....if IP for pharma is kept on perhaps Thailand can seek IP on the local product,

[Frank James]

Pharmaceutical companies control US government health-care policy. Most Americans cannot afford even basic health care without expensive health insurance policies. This does not benefit anyone except the pharmaceutical companies and the politicians. The US spends trillions of dollars on war, billions on bailing out criminal bankers but allows a health care system that exploits its people. Its priorities are wrong. It seems obscene to me.

Thailand provides universal 30-baht health-care for its citizens. It allows generic copies of medicines to be sold at cheap prices. I see nothing wrong in Thais fighting to preserve what they have. It keeps many thousands of Thais alive. Thailand is a role model for the US.

Thank you for saying so well what I was too angry to put into reasonable words. Thailand must NEVER knuckle under to demands by big Western pharm/agro interests. Good quality generic drugs, very reasonably priced and readilyavailable, are one of the most attractive things about living in this wonderful kingdom.

Beer, who cares?

[femi fan]

Interesting, can you please provide a source for the information about prescribed drugs being the number 1 or 4 cause of death for Americans. I really would like to read more about that. Thanks.

I feel sure that if you would like to read more you'd be able to find your own sources, the internet is an excellent research tool.

Either you are interested and you will do this, or you are not and you won't. Don't be bothering me to do your own work.

It does sound like you are interested, so enjoy the research, it's fun.

[femi fan]

Pharmaceutical companies control US government health-care policy. Most Americans cannot afford even basic health care without expensive health insurance policies. This does not benefit anyone except the pharmaceutical companies and the politicians. The US spends trillions of dollars on war, billions on bailing out criminal bankers but allows a health care system that exploits its people. Its priorities are wrong. It seems obscene to me.

Thailand provides universal 30-baht health-care for its citizens. It allows generic copies of medicines to be sold at cheap prices. I see nothing wrong in Thais fighting to preserve what they have. It keeps many thousands of Thais alive. Thailand is a role model for the US.

Thank you for saying so well what I was too angry to put into reasonable words. Thailand must NEVER knuckle under to demands by big Western pharm/agro interests. Good quality generic drugs, very reasonably priced and readilyavailable, are one of the most attractive things about living in this wonderful kingdom.

Beer, who cares?

It's very easy to get angry about the western pharmaceutical companies! And even more so when they bring their practices to other nations. Whatever small good they may do is outweighed by the enormous harm they do, which includes dishing out misery and death to people and their families.

I noted that the talks in chiang mai were the second round of talks, and that the EU and thailand (or was it ASEAN) will aim to find a resolution next year in a third round of talks. I do hope the thai representation look after thais' interests, and don't cave into pressure from these big wealthy nations and their horrible corporations who care about their profits and don't give a stuff about the lives of citizens.

It was even more concerning to see the EU talking about controlling the foods here. They keep trying to do this. Thailand kept its independence from the european colonisers, and i hope that this skill remains in their blood today!

[Mapguy]

I am not uncritical of some practices --- especially the marketing practices --- of pharmaceutical firms, but don't overlook the cost of research, testing and approval of drugs. Manufacturing and marketing generic formulas that are proven is not the hard part. And, in some major cases --- be concerned, for example, with India and China --- there is concern about the quality produced.

Otherwise, what in the world has this discussion to do with Op's post ?!

[Baloo22]

Fifty weeks of fourty hours of research a week would be two thousand hours of research. Have you really done months or years of full time research on these topics? If so, why? What do you think you will accomplish?

By the way, my father had type I diabetes and would have died in his early teens were it not for daily injections of insulin. I don't think the drug industry is lead by saints, but I'm glad we have access to modern medicines.

A minimum of ten hours a week for five years now. Many weeks it's been more.

For very good reasons. Firstly to fix a health problem of my own that mainstream doctors and specialists couldn't. Secondly to lead a healthy life out of the hands of the doctors and their pills. Increasingly many people are taking this option in life.

And thirdly i never set out to do that at all. It just happened that way as i discovered more and more bullshit we've been spun, and how lacking our education system is so that we could all make the right choices to live our lives with greater quality and quantity.

And i have accomplished a lot thanks!

It's a con that diabetics need insulin. You can take foods and herbs and gradually come of the insulin, never to need it again. But even better is to avoid getting diabetes in the first place. If people knew how it came about they could easily prevent it happening to them.

Modern medicines do their job, sometimes, but quality of life and cures are not their remit, nor their agenda.

Hundreds or thousands of hours of research and you are still profuoundly ignorant. Type 1 diabetes is a genetic condition that can't be cured with herbs, though I have no doubt you are willing encourage others to adopt a lethal alternative cure rather than admit you are wrong.

Obviously he/she does not understand the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes. Must have missed that somewhere in the research. AND not all cancers are preventable. Some are hereditary. Missed that one in the research as well.

+1 There is a lot that this character misses and refuses to accept.

When I contracted meningitis, I found myself very glad that we have pharmaceutical companies that perform the research and development for the modern medicines that we now have. There is something about what you endure with a 104.4°F fever that convinces you of your need for modern medicines.

[sustento]

Interesting, can you please provide a source for the information about prescribed drugs being the number 1 or 4 cause of death for Americans. I really would like to read more about that. Thanks.

I feel sure that if you would like to read more you'd be able to find your own sources, the internet is an excellent research tool.

Either you are interested and you will do this, or you are not and you won't. Don't be bothering me to do your own work.

It does sound like you are interested, so enjoy the research, it's fun.

If you post something that you tell us is true it's up to you to provide evidence. That's the way that research works. "Do your own research" is just a cop-out.

[Baloo22]

Fifty weeks of fourty hours of research a week would be two thousand hours of research. Have you really done months or years of full time research on these topics? If so, why? What do you think you will accomplish?

By the way, my father had type I diabetes and would have died in his early teens were it not for daily injections of insulin. I don't think the drug industry is lead by saints, but I'm glad we have access to modern medicines.

A minimum of ten hours a week for five years now. Many weeks it's been more.

For very good reasons. Firstly to fix a health problem of my own that mainstream doctors and specialists couldn't. Secondly to lead a healthy life out of the hands of the doctors and their pills. Increasingly many people are taking this option in life.

And thirdly i never set out to do that at all. It just happened that way as i discovered more and more bullshit we've been spun, and how lacking our education system is so that we could all make the right choices to live our lives with greater quality and quantity.

And i have accomplished a lot thanks!

It's a con that diabetics need insulin. You can take foods and herbs and gradually come of the insulin, never to need it again. But even better is to avoid getting diabetes in the first place. If people knew how it came about they could easily prevent it happening to them.

Modern medicines do their job, sometimes, but quality of life and cures are not their remit, nor their agenda.

So, according to you; "It's a con that diabetics need insulin. " What a pant-load of crap. Your thinking is beneath stupid!

There is a "con" being done. The con is you smooth-talking a lot of slogans and convincing the gullible of the big "Pharma" boogyman.

If and when you, or someone you care about, contracts a serious disease, be sure and refuse the evil medicines researched and developed by those evil pharmaceutical companies. Let's see you stick to your herbs.

[daoyai]

Interesting, can you please provide a source for the information about prescribed drugs being the number 1 or 4 cause of death for Americans. I really would like to read more about that. Thanks.

I feel sure that if you would like to read more you'd be able to find your own sources, the internet is an excellent research tool.

Either you are interested and you will do this, or you are not and you won't. Don't be bothering me to do your own work.

It does sound like you are interested, so enjoy the research, it's fun.

If you post something that you tell us is true it's up to you to provide evidence. That's the way that research works. "Do your own research" is just a cop-out.

So true. one reason for posting links to your sources is to know where you get your info, do you get it all from new age/alternative med. sites? or credable sources. Misinformation and wooist fantasies outnumber fact based sites by a wide margin.

[Rancid]

And of course the same Big Pharma doedn't talk about the lifestyle issues causing so much disease nor that their "cures" usually cure nothing but are symptom suppressing ongoing profit streams.

They do some good but also a lot of bad, fortunately for them there are always the sheep that buy their PR.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Loaded]

Interesting, can you please provide a source for the information about prescribed drugs being the number 1 or 4 cause of death for Americans. I really would like to read more about that. Thanks.

I feel sure that if you would like to read more you'd be able to find your own sources, the internet is an excellent research tool.

Either you are interested and you will do this, or you are not and you won't. Don't be bothering me to do your own work.

It does sound like you are interested, so enjoy the research, it's fun.

If you post something that you tell us is true it's up to you to provide evidence. That's the way that research works. "Do your own research" is just a cop-out.

So true. one reason for posting links to your sources is to know where you get your info, do you get it all from new age/alternative med. sites? or credable sources. Misinformation and wooist fantasies outnumber fact based sites by a wide margin.

Credible sources are often more credable.

[FiftyTwo]

Tell that to a diabetic on insulin or someone with Ulcerative Colitis or Crone's disease.

Easy. Plenty of non-pill alternatives. There did used to be medicine in the world before the pill-obsessed american and european version came along, although many people don't seem to have considered this possibility.

Do you actually know what diabetes, ulcerative colitis or Crone's disease are?

Mostly problems caused by multiple vaccinations at an early age (damaging the immune system) and/or other lifestyle choices.

I believe many diabetics have caused their own problems by overeating and not exercising.

My mother was a nurse, specialising in the care of Crone's disease, she said it always had an associated mental obsessive/compulsive behaviour and if you could distract the patient from the behavioural abnormalities, the physical symptoms would disappear.

I agree with femi fan, big pharma is a force for evil in the world, whose only objective is to make money.

[heybruce]

Tell that to a diabetic on insulin or someone with Ulcerative Colitis or Crone's disease.

Easy. Plenty of non-pill alternatives. There did used to be medicine in the world before the pill-obsessed american and european version came along, although many people don't seem to have considered this possibility.

Do you actually know what diabetes, ulcerative colitis or Crone's disease are?

Mostly problems caused by multiple vaccinations at an early age (damaging the immune system) and/or other lifestyle choices.

I believe many diabetics have caused their own problems by overeating and not exercising.

My mother was a nurse, specialising in the care of Crone's disease, she said it always had an associated mental obsessive/compulsive behaviour and if you could distract the patient from the behavioural abnormalities, the physical symptoms would disappear.

I agree with femi fan, big pharma is a force for evil in the world, whose only objective is to make money.

Once again, the old discredited claim that childhood vaccinations cause more harm than good, while all credible research shows the opposite. I'd ask for your source, but I'm sure you'd point me to the British doctor in the '90's who lost his license for making unsubstantiated, self-serving claims.

I agree that in the rich world the primary cause of premature death is excessive fat, sugar, alcohol and tobacco, and insufficient fresh fruits, vegetables and exercise. But this isn't big pharma's fault, is it? I also agree that drug companies often use questionable marketing techniqes in the pursuit of profit. However antibiotics save countless lives, vaccinations prevent epidemics and crippling childhood diseases, and insulin gave my father over fifty years of life he wouldn't have had, and is the reason I and my brothers exist. Once again, there is a difference between type 1 and type 2 diabetes, I suggest you educate yourself before commenting on the disease--my father was a skinny and physicaly active child before diabetes nearly killed him.

Let's not dismiss the benefits of modern medicine because there are some abuses of the system.

[Mapguy]

It is truly bewildering that there is still nonsense floating around regarding immunization of children. There are an astonishing number of junk sites on the web which foster this ignorance.

The consequences of not being immunized far surpass any danger that might occur in very, very rare cases (which can be treated).

For a sensible discussion start here:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/vaccine-decision/side-effects.html

Otherwise, how in the world can anyone attribute the public health concern to immunize children to some sort of conspiracy by the health care and/or the pharmaceutical firms. That is truly bizarre!

[sustento]

Tell that to a diabetic on insulin or someone with Ulcerative Colitis or Crone's disease.

Easy. Plenty of non-pill alternatives. There did used to be medicine in the world before the pill-obsessed american and european version came along, although many people don't seem to have considered this possibility.

Do you actually know what diabetes, ulcerative colitis or Crone's disease are?

Mostly problems caused by multiple vaccinations at an early age (damaging the immune system) and/or other lifestyle choices.

I believe many diabetics have caused their own problems by overeating and not exercising.

If diabetes is caused by "multiple vaccinations at an early age" how come it was diagnosed by the Egyptians in 1500BC? No multiple vaccinations around then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_diabetes

[Thai at Heart]

Just tell the EU to f@%k off,they will be telling Thailand they can only sell

straight bananas next,Thailand tell the EU its not your father !,came here

to get away from their mostly stupid policies.like telling the UK every household

had to change all their electrical plugs and sockets to be the same two pin crap

as the rest of the EU.

Good luck to the protesters.

regards worgeordie

At 300% tax on wine, I think the EU is more than aware of Thailand's attitude. Now it's payback....

[femi fan]

People get so defensive about their rigid belief system, and mistake it for fact. When an alternative view comes along they denigrate the people holding those views and demand evidence. But with ears stuffed shut no evidence would be accepted anyway.

If people are properly interested in challenging their own beliefs then they will do their own work, and willingly. Anything i provide by way of 'evidence' will be rejected for any number of reasons because it won't fit with a belief system.

There have been comments about all the costs of the R and D paid by the corporations. It's part of the system, and their main excuse why they need patents. Why corporations should be able to make decisions that kill off so many citizens is criminal. Anybody defending these amoral gangsters might ask themselves what their balance sheets look like, what their profit margins are. They are astronomical.

And another thing that anybody who isn't too far brainwashed to consider is what is in the pills. Nearly all, if not all, of the active constituents come from natural plants and herbs, would you believe it!! They take something out of the bark of a tree, mix it with their own chemicals and other assorted nasties that cause all the side effects (and a major side effect of much of this 'medicine' is death) and then patent it. What a money-spinner!

If their pills were so good why do the pharma companies spend over 40 billion dollars a year advertising their products in the american media??

[femi fan]

The article in the link below perhaps gives some background understanding to all these 'free' trade agreements that the rich nations always try to railroad onto poorer nations.

People definitely need to be alert to what the large food and pill corporations are trying to do, and they won't get their information from mainstream media sources until it's too late.

At the heart of everything that happens on the world stage when treaties and 'agreements' relating to the production and supply of food are being discussed and ratified lies the alarming, and criminal, document codex alimentarius.

That so few people know about this is precisely because mainstream media won't discuss it. But it's something that anyone who cares about the sanctity and safety of their food, and who prefers to buy locally grown produce provided by nature, rather than monsanto muck and poison, should learn about.

People might also want to research for themselves the link between their food and their medicine. Especially the corporations selling them. They are often the same, and certainly make happy bedfellows. It's not even rocket science: make us ill with the foods, while making heaps of money selling the foods, then supply us with the pills to deal with our health problems and make even more heaps of money. No cures, and no education for us about the causes of our health problems. Why would we want to educate the public? They'll eat healthy food and stop buying our foods and pills.

http://www.naturalnews.com/042158_trade_agreements_Monsanto_GMO_labeling.html

[Frank James]

Certainly has been a lively thread. I just read LeCarre's "The Constant Gardener." (I know, where've I been, it came out in 2000.) Big Pharma and its political minions cast as the villains. A smacking good read, with much food for thought.

The best sales gig you can get is with pharmaceutical companies. Making the rounds of doctors and clinics, passing out freebies, "seminars" in exotic locales.

Don't forget: much of that R & D is paid for by big tax breaks, and sometimes outright govt. subsidy.

A lot of us wouldn't have lived so long without getting all of those free shots in school. That's back when govt took an active role in protecting the health of ALL of the citizens.

[iainiain101]

I actually met a Thai teenager who went to the rally. I asked him why he went and he said it was because his friends were going and they hoped to meet girls there!

He still has no idea what it was about!

[heybruce]

1. People get so defensive about their rigid belief system, and mistake it for fact. When an alternative view comes along they denigrate the people holding those views and demand evidence. But with ears stuffed shut no evidence would be accepted anyway.

If people are properly interested in challenging their own beliefs then they will do their own work, and willingly. Anything i provide by way of 'evidence' will be rejected for any number of reasons because it won't fit with a belief system.

There have been comments about all the costs of the R and D paid by the corporations. It's part of the system, and their main excuse why they need patents. 2. Why corporations should be able to make decisions that kill off so many citizens is criminal. Anybody defending these amoral gangsters might ask themselves what their balance sheets look like, what their profit margins are. They are astronomical.

And another thing that anybody who isn't too far brainwashed to consider is what is in the pills. 3. Nearly all, if not all, of the active constituents come from natural plants and herbs, would you believe it!! They take something out of the bark of a tree, mix it with their own chemicals and other assorted nasties that cause all the side effects (and a major side effect of much of this 'medicine' is death) and then patent it. What a money-spinner!

If their pills were so good why do the pharma companies spend over 40 billion dollars a year advertising their products in the american media??

Statement 1. I agree. However before you dislocate something patting yourself on the back, consider whether the statement applies to you. You seem to have a blind faith in alternative medicine and a blanket rejection of modern medicines. Earlier you stated that type 1 diabetes can be treated with certain unspecified herbs that will allow the diabetic to gradually stop taking insulin. I have found no evidence that such herbs exists and maintain that this alternative cure would be suicidal. Prove me wrong--identify a credible study showing herbs as an effective alternative to insulin in treating type 1 diabetes.

Statement 2. Grammatically and factually incorrect. Corporations make mistakes and people suffer, but in advanced countries there are legal remedies. Or are you implying that corporations intentionally kill people? There are legal remedies for that also. The system is far from perfect, however it is better than nothing (or anarchy).

Statement 3. Correct, so what? Many medicines were discovered by studying folk cures. The active ingredient of aspirin can be found in willow bark, and quinine, the first known effective treatment for malaria, comes from the bark of the cinchona tree. Scientists learned how to distill or synthesize these and other medicines and provide them in measured quantities of known purity in a pill form. This is a good thing, most people with a headache or a malarial fever would rather take a pill than chew on bark.

Alternative medicine is trendy, but an irrational faith in trendy medicine is dangerous. South African president Thabo Mbeki denied the relationship between the HIV virus and AID's and appointed a health minister, Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, who advised treating AIDs with beetroot, garlic and lemon juice. Under this idiocy AIDs infections climbed to over 15% for the 15 to 49 age group, and only began to fall after more scientific remedies were implemented. Ignorance really does kill.

There are definite flaws with the profit driven drug industry. There's more money to be made in baldness cures in the rich world than by curing fatal diseases limited to the poor world, so baldness cures receive disproportinate attention. Also unscrupulous marketing promotes expensive on-patent drugs over equally effective off-patent drugs. However flaws in the system indicate the system should be improved, not abandoned. After all the building industry is for profit, and some builders cut corners in dangerous ways to maximize profit. Does this mean we should abandon buildings and live outside?

If you develop diabetes and want to treat it with herbs that's fine with me, that's just Darwin's theory in action. However if you want to promote unproven remedies for dangerous diseases, it is the responsibility of more rational people to refute your claims.

[sustento]

The article in the link below perhaps gives some background understanding to all these 'free' trade agreements that the rich nations always try to railroad onto poorer nations.

People definitely need to be alert to what the large food and pill corporations are trying to do, and they won't get their information from mainstream media sources until it's too late.

At the heart of everything that happens on the world stage when treaties and 'agreements' relating to the production and supply of food are being discussed and ratified lies the alarming, and criminal, document codex alimentarius.

That so few people know about this is precisely because mainstream media won't discuss it. But it's something that anyone who cares about the sanctity and safety of their food, and who prefers to buy locally grown produce provided by nature, rather than monsanto muck and poison, should learn about.

People might also want to research for themselves the link between their food and their medicine. Especially the corporations selling them. They are often the same, and certainly make happy bedfellows. It's not even rocket science: make us ill with the foods, while making heaps of money selling the foods, then supply us with the pills to deal with our health problems and make even more heaps of money. No cures, and no education for us about the causes of our health problems. Why would we want to educate the public? They'll eat healthy food and stop buying our foods and pills.

http://www.naturalnews.com/042158_trade_agreements_Monsanto_GMO_labeling.html

Do you have any websites that you can recommend that aren't trying to sell us something? Link to evidence on sites like the NIH or CDC perhaps?

[femi fan]

heybruce...

nearly all of what you say in your post is attributing ideas and concepts to me that i have not said at all. You are reading too much into what i say. For example i never mentioned any distinction between the two diabetes types, only about this aliment in general.

Nor am i promoting any particular system of medicine.

You talk about 'unproven' remedies, but that merely means unproven to you due to your belief system. For example there are numerous real non-mainstream cures for those who have cancer, and ones that are noninvasive and unharmful to the body. But because the western medical cartel and rules they get government to pass it is impossible to sufficiently 'prove' these remedies to the satisfaction of those who demand evidence all the time. Meanwhile thousands of citizens go ahead anyway, and eliminate their cancer, learning the process how to avoid getting it back again.

I have no 'blind faith' in anything, this is merely you misrepresenting me, and i ask you to recant. I've done literally thousands of hours of research into food and health/disease, precisely because i don't want to believe in things, have faith in things, and because it seemed to me that the 'health' system we have got is anything but. Clearly it does some things well, like trauma, emergencies, broken bones and the like. But curing diseases and preventing them in the first place is not part of its remit. That i say this has seemingly caused you some level of angst.

And incidentally, statement 2 is grammatically correct, and factually correct. I suggest you read it again with an open mind and a better grammar filter.

[femi fan]

And you ought to know that in america the government have passed laws that effectively disbar citizens from gaining recompense from vaccinations that go wrong. If their kids get injured or ill as a result of a vaccination, the law will not allow the pharmaceutical companies to be held account. They are immune from being held accountable.

And if i die from mistakes from hospitals or doctors, how on earth should i proceed with litigation??

[femi fan]

sustento...

if you wish to believe what the CDC tell you, we're on different pages mate, and it's best we don't really communicate, because we're way too far apart to get close to any kind of agreement.

I am interested though in what you deem to be 'evidence'.

[Thighlander]

They sure did pay a lot of money out to fat people who had heart attacks after taking Vioxx, even though they were way unhealthy to begin with. Read on Bloomberg, today, that a 13 yo (in America) has a 50/50 chance of living past age 100. I suppose that's from eating Rhino horns?

[sustento]

sustento...

if you wish to believe what the CDC tell you, we're on different pages mate, and it's best we don't really communicate, because we're way too far apart to get close to any kind of agreement.

I am interested though in what you deem to be 'evidence'.

Evidence gained in controlled scientific trials conducted by people qualified in that particular field.

[femi fan]

sustento...

if you wish to believe what the CDC tell you, we're on different pages mate, and it's best we don't really communicate, because we're way too far apart to get close to any kind of agreement.

I am interested though in what you deem to be 'evidence'.

Evidence gained in controlled scientific trials conducted by people qualified in that particular field.

Using research money that comes from the pharmaceutical companies?