Bamboozled By Farang Developer

[huahinheartbreak]

Nearly two years ago, my husband and I contracted with a farang developer to build our "dream retirement home" in Hua Hin. To this day, the house is a shell, with water erosion, cracking cement, and many blatant construction errors (yeah, like he put in wood floors without any windows or doors in the building - ruined with standing water from the rains).

It's obvious the man has no intention of completing our house even though he has received millions of baht from us.

Does anybody know of a Thai authority we can complain to?

Hua Hin Heartbreak

[GuestHouse]

Go see a lawyer and start legal procedings against him. I'd also advise that you consider asking your lawyer to start the persuit with a request to the court to place him under bail and confiscate his passport.

I hope you have a contract and receipts for all payments.

[huahinheartbreak]

Thanks for your suggestion. We do have all of the paperwork: contract, receipts from wire transfers, emails full of promises - and more recently - threats. We're not in Thailand right now, though we have engaged a Thai lawyer who seems marginally competent. We still love Hua Hin, but feel so helpless in this matter which undermines the very core of our retirement plans.

[cdnvic]

Sorry to hear of your problems. Do you have photos of the house, and the name of the company?

cv

[GuestHouse]

Given that you say millions of Bht have been spent, I would suggest you consider one of the leading Bangkok law firms, ie Tileck and Gibbons.

If you have threats documented then that is all in your favour.

[huahinheartbreak]

Sorry to hear of your problems. Do you have photos of the house, and the name of the company?

cv

We have dozens of photos, and I've posted some in an album here:

House Heartbreak Photos

It's a Thai-Bali style house, with three separate buildings. The master bedroom bldg and the main house bldg are SO CLOSE together, that there's no room to put a roof on the master house building. There are a few photos of erosion, where he attempted to build a retaining wall that simply washed away in the next rainstorm.

Yes, I do have the name of the company, but in reading the rules of behavior for this forum, I understand I cannot post this, and at this point I prefer not to.

Meanwhile, this developer is building at least 20 more houses in Hua Hin, and they all have problems (no building permits, for starters; no plans with structural, electrical, waste, etc drawings; no circuit breakers in houses, which has caused small fires). It seems the other farangs are too timid to take any action, hoping that by "being nice" they will get their houses completed someday. Meanwhile, he keeps selling more...

We are gathering our documents and our courage - as I fear for our safety if we ever want to return to Hua Hin.

Hua Hin Heartbreak...

Edited April 22, 2006 by huahinheartbreak

[rio666uk]

you might wanna check your link

[chuchok]

you might wanna check your link

link works fine.

[rio666uk]

you might wanna check your link

link works fine.

yeah it does now

now i look a right arse - kept sending me off to microsofts homepage

and dont even think about telling me what i was doing something wrong!!!

Edited April 22, 2006 by rio666uk

[The Skipper]

This is Thailand.

I would start off by talking to some Thai kickboxers.

[sbkpeterpan]

Does anybody know of a Thai authority we can complain to?

Hua Hin Heartbreak

Don't bother with a Thai authority, they won't do anything. Book an appointment with a decent Legal firm, get on a plane and start proceedings. Guest house has given you good advice, but this cowboy builder needs to be stopped, you won't do it by hiring a marginally competant legal advice.

[Thaising]

"Meanwhile, this developer is building at least 20 more houses in Hua Hin, and they all have problems (no building permits, for starters; no plans with structural, electrical, waste, etc drawings; no circuit breakers in houses, which has caused small fires). It seems the other farangs are too timid to take any action, hoping that by "being nice" they will get their houses completed someday. Meanwhile, he keeps selling more...

We are gathering our documents and our courage - as I fear for our safety if we ever want to return to Hua Hin. "

The best options is to take-up group legal action against this farang contractor, try to gather more information from the other buyers, where you could build up your cases against the developer.

Edited April 23, 2006 by Thaising

[BKK90210]

"We are gathering our documents and our courage - as I fear for our safety if we ever want to return to Hua Hin. "

Sad to hear your story.

I don't know by taking the legal actions against him will do youany good, unless it's a collective action with those other customers too.....since you main concern is for your own safety, I know some guys in construction industry can have quite a shady past.

In addition…By taking legal action against him solo, you will be expecting to spend more of your own money on the top of the amount you had already lost, and the legal system in thailand between farang-farang can not be the top priority of the thai judicial system....but still worth to try if you have some dosh left.

Can you somehow also tip off the local newspapers anonymously and let them do the investigative story on him and the development? Or go to the local building authority and pretend to ask them about what your house number will be, I’m sure your question will raised the red flag at the building department, since he doesn’t have the building permit on the project, and they will certain get on the case…even for free?

I don’t know if I’m helping or not….

But anyway, if you have other structural questions, feel free PM me, as a licensed structural engineer (here in the US) will try to help you out if I can.

Good luck

[Dragonman]

Without having view of the Contract it is obviously impossible to consider whether breach of contract has occured! I presume you have employed a lawyer from outside the area? Essential!

It would be possible for your lawyer to apply for an Interlocutory Injunction to, as GuestHouse suggests, confiscate the Defendant's passport.But unless the police are willing to pursue fraud allegations this would be unlikely to succeed.

I'm afraid there is little left to do except allow your lawyer to proceed. As Thaising suggests a Group Action may be possible.

However you may consider the fact that this may push him over the edge and he may file for bankruptcy.

If I were your lawyer I would proceed with Civil Action for Breach of Contract, whilst contemplating the fraud element. Expensive! But you should, if awarded judgement, be able to claim Statutory Interest on money paid.

Keep us up dated. Good Luck.

[huahinheartbreak]

Without having view of the Contract it is obviously impossible to consider whether breach of contract has occured! I presume you have employed a lawyer from outside the area? Essential!

It would be possible for your lawyer to apply for an Interlocutory Injunction to, as GuestHouse suggests, confiscate the Defendant's passport.But unless the police are willing to pursue fraud allegations this would be unlikely to succeed.

I'm afraid there is little left to do except allow your lawyer to proceed. As Thaising suggests a Group Action may be possible.

However you may consider the fact that this may push him over the edge and he may file for bankruptcy.

If I were your lawyer I would proceed with Civil Action for Breach of Contract, whilst contemplating the fraud element. Expensive! But you should, if awarded judgement, be able to claim Statutory Interest on money paid.

Keep us up dated. Good Luck.

Thanks for the advice and suggestions. It's amazing that the other 20+ homebuyers are so timid - I think that they must think that by "being nice" they'll get their houses completed, and so they don't want to raise any issues just yet. I've contacted a big Bangkok law firm to see what they can/will do for us.

The major breach of contract is that the house was to be delivered on 31/12/2005. Of course, nobody really expects construction to be completed on time, but he went a step further - he sent us invoices for milestones that weren't completed (like putting the roof on!), still aren't completed and likely never will be completed. You can see from the photo album that the two buildings are so close together there's no way he can put a roof on the second (and larger) building and have it look anywhere close to attractive. He threatened to stop work if we didn't pay, so like meek sheep, we paid. The contract says that we can send a notice of termination and get our money back, but of course he just laughed at that one.

His legal advisor has threatened us with "defamation of character" if we say anything, though he just sent a letter to the other home buyers defaming us. This entire business is one huge nightmare, and we thought we were doing everything right two years ago...

Hua Hin Heartbreak

[Digger]

The easiest solution to get him out of the picture is to simply have your lawyer check if he has a work permit - if his name is on the contract and he does not have a work permit he will be deported. But then you have the problem of finishing the house and you dont say if the ownership papers for the land are in your name. Legal fights are not easy, for the simple reason that you are probably owning this through a company which could cause more problems than it solves. i.e has your company filed any accounts in the last 2 years this has been going on?

Really would suggest you retain an expensive law firm in BKK, however you could be looking at costs around 500,000 baht to do this - do you want/have the money to pursue this on top of what you have already spent?

[Dragonman]

Without having view of the Contract it is obviously impossible to consider whether breach of contract has occured! I presume you have employed a lawyer from outside the area? Essential!

It would be possible for your lawyer to apply for an Interlocutory Injunction to, as GuestHouse suggests, confiscate the Defendant's passport.But unless the police are willing to pursue fraud allegations this would be unlikely to succeed.

I'm afraid there is little left to do except allow your lawyer to proceed. As Thaising suggests a Group Action may be possible.

However you may consider the fact that this may push him over the edge and he may file for bankruptcy.

If I were your lawyer I would proceed with Civil Action for Breach of Contract, whilst contemplating the fraud element. Expensive! But you should, if awarded judgement, be able to claim Statutory Interest on money paid.

Keep us up dated. Good Luck.

Thanks for the advice and suggestions. It's amazing that the other 20+ homebuyers are so timid - I think that they must think that by "being nice" they'll get their houses completed, and so they don't want to raise any issues just yet. I've contacted a big Bangkok law firm to see what they can/will do for us.

The major breach of contract is that the house was to be delivered on 31/12/2005. Of course, nobody really expects construction to be completed on time, but he went a step further - he sent us invoices for milestones that weren't completed (like putting the roof on!), still aren't completed and likely never will be completed. You can see from the photo album that the two buildings are so close together there's no way he can put a roof on the second (and larger) building and have it look anywhere close to attractive. He threatened to stop work if we didn't pay, so like meek sheep, we paid. The contract says that we can send a notice of termination and get our money back, but of course he just laughed at that one.

His legal advisor has threatened us with "defamation of character" if we say anything, though he just sent a letter to the other home buyers defaming us. This entire business is one huge nightmare, and we thought we were doing everything right two years ago...

Hua Hin Heartbreak

Ah, the old Thai lawyer's trick regarding defamation

I am sure the Bangkok Law Firm is as aware as I am that there are items within your case that exclude defamation! I will not go into them all,but will quote the first clause." It is not defamation to impute anything which is true concerning any person, if it is for the public good that the imputation should be made or published."

In your case, possibly saving the public millions in lost baht is sufficient

[johnnyk]

A connected lawyer might be able to help out the police chief's family education fund.

Lawyers can't grab passports but the police can.

Just a thought.

Good luck, I hope something can be done. People like this are crooks plain and simple and blacken the name of all falang.

[Dragonman]

A connected lawyer might be able to help out the police chief's family education fund.

Lawyers can't grab passports but the police can.

Just a thought.

Good luck, I hope something can be done. People like this are crooks plain and simple and blacken the name of all falang.

The police cannot confiscate passports, they can request to the Judge that it be handed over to Court. As this is a Civil Case the police cannot get involved. As the Developer in question obviously now has a few baht, it would be difficult to out gun him financially, particularly as the plaintiff is outside Thailand.

[Tomissan]

A connected lawyer might be able to help out the police chief's family education fund.

Lawyers can't grab passports but the police can.

Just a thought.

Good luck, I hope something can be done. People like this are crooks plain and simple and blacken the name of all falang.

....the last part of that post is pure nonsense....like saying all Thai contractor's are crooks or all farang contractor's are crooks...this one guy maybe a crook but does not mean all are....

The adivice in the other post; "find out if he has a work permit" is in my opinion, the best route. First find out, then use it as possible leverage to either get the house finished as per agreement or get your money back. In any case, it's unfortunate because if in fact he is legal, work permit, etc., then you may be in for a long and costly battle unless you happen to know someone of influence there in Hua Hin. If he's putting the screws to everyone like you say then the 'other's' should work together and do what's necessary. Sounds easy but we all know it's not. I know of similar problems and the homeowner's were forced to leave the area or face more serious retaliation from the builder.

much luck to you and hope you don't have to spend too much to get it sorted out.....

[ThaiPauly]

How did you find the developer.? Through an agent?

Maybee they should take some responsibility if you did?

I have looked at the pics and I am so sorry for you, however there are others giving good advice here. This is the only thing I can think of

Good luck...

[Boon Mee]

This is Thailand.

I would start off by talking to some Thai kickboxers.

This isn't bad advice either Pauly.

[taxexile]

if you own the land already , i.e. have the title deed , then you could cut your losses by not paying him any more and when you are ready employ your own contractor to finish the building work.

you woukld be surprised at how inexpensive it would be , compared to what you are paying already.

please send me the name of the project (by thaivisa pm)

[huahinheartbreak]

if you own the land already , i.e. have the title deed , then you could cut your losses by not paying him any more and when you are ready employ your own contractor to finish the building work.

you woukld be surprised at how inexpensive it would be , compared to what you are paying already.

please send me the name of the project (by thaivisa pm)

We have thought of doing this. However, we had one engineer from Pattaya come over and inspect our project, and it was his opinion that nobody else would want to touch it, as the basic work was so shoddy. Another problem is electricity and water - he's running a line from his nearby project across a road to our house, so it would take some kind of doing to get our own electricity there (maybe not a big deal?) Still, it might be worth getting some other opinions - anything to get something back.

Incidentally, we don't own the land, but we do have the registered lease document (we took it to another Thai lawyer to verify it is authentic). So, I'd guess we can indeed continue to build if we want to.

Hua Hin Heartbreak

[Dragonman]

if you own the land already , i.e. have the title deed , then you could cut your losses by not paying him any more and when you are ready employ your own contractor to finish the building work.

you woukld be surprised at how inexpensive it would be , compared to what you are paying already.

please send me the name of the project (by thaivisa pm)

We have thought of doing this. However, we had one engineer from Pattaya come over and inspect our project, and it was his opinion that nobody else would want to touch it, as the basic work was so shoddy. Another problem is electricity and water - he's running a line from his nearby project across a road to our house, so it would take some kind of doing to get our own electricity there (maybe not a big deal?) Still, it might be worth getting some other opinions - anything to get something back.

Incidentally, we don't own the land, but we do have the registered lease document (we took it to another Thai lawyer to verify it is authentic). So, I'd guess we can indeed continue to build if we want to.

Hua Hin Heartbreak

Depends if there's a restrictive covenant in the lease, or it states you may build a property on the land without restriction! Did this guy also draw up the lease?

[JimmyGreaves]

Pity that you don't own the land as the 2 years since you signed the contract land prices have probably doubled or more in Hua Hin and you could re-coup. Please PM me the name of the project as the more people who know in HH the better.

[huahinheartbreak]

Pity that you don't own the land as the 2 years since you signed the contract land prices have probably doubled or more in Hua Hin and you could re-coup. Please PM me the name of the project as the more people who know in HH the better.

I'd bet the land, which is on the south side of Hua Hin where there are many expatriate communities springing up, has indeed doubled. If the developer were as smart as he thinks he is, he'd settle with us, finish the house, and sell it for another 4M baht.

I don't think our lease says anything specific about building, just that we can convert to owning it anytime we want to for only the admin fees. Of course, he's got to subdivide first, which he hasn't done. We live in Hawaii right now, and leasehold is common here, so we were comfortable with it.

I'm not ready to identify just yet, still clinging to the hope we can settle this with civility rather than rancor.

Hua Hin Heartbreak

[chuchok]

If what you have told us so far is true, then I think you have a snowballs chance in hel_l of reachig a result through civility.

If it were me, I wuld give him a brief chance to atone himself.If this didn't work, I would go in with both guns blazing.

[Thaipwriter]

Sounds like you should have found this website before you invested any money.

You have made many significant mistakes that a little research would have prevented.

The thing about dodgy builders is that they would not exist if there were no foolish customers about.

Did you ask the developer to show you previous satisfied customer and their properties?

[huahinheartbreak]

Sounds like you should have found this website before you invested any money.

You have made many significant mistakes that a little research would have prevented.

The thing about dodgy builders is that they would not exist if there were no foolish customers about.

Did you ask the developer to show you previous satisfied customer and their properties?

Mea culpa, we are obviously foolish customers. However, we did do our due diligence, or at least thought we did. We talked with two customers who - although they had problems in building, and it would be naive to think there wouldn't be ANY problems - were occupying their completed houses and were generally satisfied. We toured those houses and they looked fine. The rest of the houses were under construction, and some of those others are over a year late. We also talked with a Thai lawyer about the differences between setting up a Thai company and leasehold, and chose the leasehold path (though we've since set up a Thai company preparatory to owning the land.)

Hua Hin Heartbreak