Global warming? No, actually we're cooling, claim scientists

[F430murci]

No, pollution is not an issue . . . Silly people worrying about pollution . . .

-----

School was canceled, traffic was nearly paralyzed and the airport was shut down in the northeast Chinese city of Harbin on Monday as off-the-charts pollution dropped visibility to less than 10 meters in parts of the provincial capital.

. . . the smoke thickened significantly on Sunday, soon after the government turned on the coal-powered municipal heating system for the winter.

http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/21/air-pollution-hits-harbin-in-northeast-china-closing-schools-and-roads/?ref=international-home&_r=0

-----

BEIJING — Choking smog all but shut down one of northeastern China's largest cities on Monday, forcing schools to suspended classes, snarling traffic and closing the airport, in the country's first major air pollution crisis of the winter.

An index measuring PM2.5, or particulate matter with a diameter of 2.5 micrometers (PM2.5), reached a reading of 1,000 in some parts of Harbin, the gritty capital of northeastern Heilongjiang province and home to some 11 million people.

A level above 300 is considered hazardous, while the World Health Organisation recommends a daily level of no more than 20.

http://news.msn.com/world/china-smog-emergency-shuts-city-of-11-million-people

[F430murci]

Forget that people in Harbin, China, cannot see their hands in front of their face or that China linked 1.2 million premature deaths in 2010 to air pollution.

"Figured another way, the researchers said, China’s toll from pollution was the loss of 25 million healthy years of life from the population." http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/02/world/asia/air-pollution-linked-to-1-2-million-deaths-in-china.html

-----

A large portion of the CO2 emissions end up in the worlds oceans resulting in increases in the hydrogen ion and has increased acidity by 30 %. This is devastating coral reefs and impacting algae, plankton, shellfish and marine life in general.

[MJP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKY36E_rlNo

[canuckamuck]

@F430. Pollution is absolutely the critical environmental problem mankind needs to solve. And as soon as people can get their focus off of benign C02 and start making progress to eliminate actual pollutants. Then you will see a lot more cooperation from the general population. The problem though is because C02 results from every human activity, the tax potential is far too tantalizing for governments to ignore. Making C02 a taxable item creates the scenario where even breathing can carry a cost. The financial potential of carbon tax and the gravy train of rewards to the useful idiots beating the man made climate change drum is the gold rush of the new millennium.

Edited October 22, 2013 by canuckamuck

[F430murci]

@F430. Pollution is absolutely the critical environmental problem mankind needs to solve. And as soon as people can get their focus off of benign C02 and start making progress to eliminate actual pollutants. Then you will see a lot more cooperation from the general population. The problem though is because C02 results from every human activity, the tax potential is far too tantalizing for governments to ignore. Making C02 a taxable item creates the scenario where even breathing can carry a cost. The financial potential of carbon tax and the gravy train of rewards to the useful idiots beating the man made climate change drum is the gold rush of the new millennium.

I disagree. What about the CO2 problem raising the acidity level of the ocean I mentioned. People avoid this topic because there is clear objective evidence to support this problem which is perhaps the most serious issue.

Edited October 22, 2013 by F430murci

[canuckamuck]

@F430. Pollution is absolutely the critical environmental problem mankind needs to solve. And as soon as people can get their focus off of benign C02 and start making progress to eliminate actual pollutants. Then you will see a lot more cooperation from the general population. The problem though is because C02 results from every human activity, the tax potential is far too tantalizing for governments to ignore. Making C02 a taxable item creates the scenario where even breathing can carry a cost. The financial potential of carbon tax and the gravy train of rewards to the useful idiots beating the man made climate change drum is the gold rush of the new millennium.

I disagree. What about the CO2 problem raising the acidity level of the ocean I mentioned. People avoid this topic because there is clear objective evidence to support this problem which is perhaps the most serious issue.

By all means lets destroy the economy, keep the third world from achieving a healthy standard of living, and pump those taxes until we are all serfs. Because of a single chemical interaction that is only beginning to be explored and quantified. We can get to all the other proven toxins daily flowing into the oceans as soon as we can find a way to make money from that.

[F430murci]

@F430. Pollution is absolutely the critical environmental problem mankind needs to solve. And as soon as people can get their focus off of benign C02 and start making progress to eliminate actual pollutants. Then you will see a lot more cooperation from the general population. The problem though is because C02 results from every human activity, the tax potential is far too tantalizing for governments to ignore. Making C02 a taxable item creates the scenario where even breathing can carry a cost. The financial potential of carbon tax and the gravy train of rewards to the useful idiots beating the man made climate change drum is the gold rush of the new millennium.

I disagree. What about the CO2 problem raising the acidity level of the ocean I mentioned. People avoid this topic because there is clear objective evidence to support this problem which is perhaps the most serious issue.

By all means lets destroy the economy, keep the third world from achieving a healthy standard of living, and pump those taxes until we are all serfs. Because of a single chemical interaction that is only beginning to be explored and quantified. We can get to all the other proven toxins daily flowing into the oceans as soon as we can find a way to make money from that.

Dude, I have been drinking, but I have no clue what are you trying to say. Pump up taxes??? No, that is bs. Do you realize there are dead spots in the ocean? Do you know what those are from? Do you disagree that CO2 missions are increasing acidity in our oceans? Do you disagree that we are losing vast expansions of coral reefs due to CO2? Do you realize what happens if we lose coral reefs?

[RickBradford]

Do you disagree that we are losing vast expansions of coral reefs due to CO2?

Well, scientists worldwide generally disagree.

John M. Pandolfi, Sean R. Connolly, Dustin J. Marshall, Anne L. Cohen 2011: Science]

"The world’s largest coral reef off the east coast of Australia is not going to disappear as fast as once previously thought. Warnings that the Great Barrier Reef could die off due to climate change over the next 20 to 30 years are exaggerated....some current projections of global-scale collapse of reefs within the next few decades probably overestimate the rapidity and uniformity of the decline....reefs are naturally highly diverse and resilient, and are likely to respond to the changed conditions in different ways and at varying rates.”"

Takahashi, A. and Kurihara, H. 2013.

Ocean acidification does not affect the physiology of the tropical coral Acropora digitifera

[Laura M. Parker, Pauline M. Ross, Wayne A. O'Connor, Larissa Borysko, David A. Raftos, Hans-Otto Pörtner 2012: Global Change Biology]

"marine organisms may have the capacity to acclimate or adapt to elevated CO2 over the next century."

Form, A. U., and U. Riebesell, 2012.

Acclimation to ocean acidification during long-term CO2 exposure in the cold-water coral Lophela pertusa. ... a linear regression analysis reveals an increasing trend of coral growth with rising pCO2 concentration [decreasing pH].*

There are dozens more similar studies suggesting the same -- that the scare about dying coral reefs is more a publicity stunt than robust science.

[wilcopops]

Do you disagree that we are losing vast expansions of coral reefs due to CO2?

Well, scientists worldwide generally disagree.

John M. Pandolfi, Sean R. Connolly, Dustin J. Marshall, Anne L. Cohen 2011: Science]

"The world’s largest coral reef off the east coast of Australia is not going to disappear as fast as once previously thought. Warnings that the Great Barrier Reef could die off due to climate change over the next 20 to 30 years are exaggerated....some current projections of global-scale collapse of reefs within the next few decades probably overestimate the rapidity and uniformity of the decline....reefs are naturally highly diverse and resilient, and are likely to respond to the changed conditions in different ways and at varying rates.”"

Takahashi, A. and Kurihara, H. 2013.

Ocean acidification does not affect the physiology of the tropical coral Acropora digitifera

[Laura M. Parker, Pauline M. Ross, Wayne A. O'Connor, Larissa Borysko, David A. Raftos, Hans-Otto Pörtner 2012: Global Change Biology]

"marine organisms may have the capacity to acclimate or adapt to elevated CO2 over the next century."

Form, A. U., and U. Riebesell, 2012.

Acclimation to ocean acidification during long-term CO2 exposure in the cold-water coral Lophela pertusa. ... a linear regression analysis reveals an increasing trend of coral growth with rising pCO2 concentration [decreasing pH].*

There are dozens more similar studies suggesting the same -- that the scare about dying coral reefs is more a publicity stunt than robust science.

You're cherry picking again - all these quotes are out of context and some are species specific, some don't even apply directly to coral!

you are out of straws and now scraping the barrel

​

[canuckamuck]

@ F430 You are really unaware of the tax implications of demonizing C02? Well sorry, I thought you were paying attention.

As RB has pointed out, we have not yet established the relationship between lower PH and Marine life in a macro sense; perhaps some smaller species specific things have been observed. C02 certainly has not been found as the driver of dead zones. I would be amazed if it were true, given the massive amount of toxins we dump in the ocean daily.

@WIlcopops:

[RickBradford]

Scientists Determine Corals Are Highly Adaptive To Extreme Climate Changes, Global Warming Not A Problem - [A. G. Bauman, A. H. Baird, G. H. Cavalcante 2011: Coral Reefs]

Australia's Great Barrier Reef Healthy & Unaffected By Climate Change, Peer-Reviewed Study Determines - [Kate Osborne, Andrew M. Dolman, Scott C. Burgess, Kerryn A. Johns 2011: PLoS ONE]

Global Warming & Ocean Acidification Help Florida Coral Reefs Grow - [Kevin P. Helmle, Richard E. Dodge, Peter K. Swart, Dwight K. Gledhill, C. Mark Eakin 2011: Nature Communications]

Complete Coral Reef Recovery From Extreme Warmth Provides Proof That Nature Can Adapt To Climate Change - [Fernando A. Zapata, Alberto Rodríguez-Ramírez, Carlos Caro-Zambrano & Jaime Garzón-Ferreira 2010: International Journal of Tropical Biology and Conservation]

Prediction That Coral Reefs Will Decline Due To Global Warming Is Wrong - [Hiroya Yamano, Kaoru Sugihara, Keiichi Nomura 2011: Geophysical Research Letters]

Coral Reefs Will Thrive & Expand With A Warmer Global Climate - [Woodroffe, C.D., Brooke, B.P., Linklater, M., Kennedy, D.M., Jones, B.G., Buchanan, C., Mleczko, R., Hua, Q. and Zhao, J.-X. 2010: Geophysical Research Letters]

Sea Corals Survive & Thrive At High Levels of CO2; 'Ocean Acidification' Not A Major Problem - [Krief, S., Hendy, E.J., Fine, M., Yam, R., Meibom, A., Foster, G.L. and Shemesh, A. 2010]

Recurrent disturbances, recovery trajectories, and resilience of coral assemblages on a South Central Pacific reef. Coral Reefs, 28, 775–780. - Adjeroud, M., F. Michonneau, P.J. Edmunds, Y. Chancerelle, T. Lison de Loma, L. Penin, L. Thibaut, J. Vidal-Dupiol, B. Salvat, and R. Galzin. 2009. Crabbe, M.J.C. 2009. Marine Environmental Research, 67, 189–198.

Mumby, P.J. and A.R. Harborne. 2010. Marine reserves enhance the recovery of corals on Caribbean reefs. PLoS ONE,

This is just a small part of the recent literature from marine scientists -- there's several pages more.

Coral reefs throughout the world are under severe challenge from a variety of environmental factors including overfishing, destructive fishing practices, coral bleaching, algal blooms, agricultural run-off, coastal and resort development, marine pollution, increasing coral diseases, invasive species, and hurricane/cyclone damage.

To try and pin the whole thing on CO2 is absurd, and by diverting focus away from these real problems, ultimately damaging to the health of the reefs.

[F430murci]

Overfishing kills coral reefs. Haha, Rick Bradford is just some fat arse dude in his underwear typing away at a keyboard that has spent zero time in the ocean.

The avoided questions were:

(1). Do you disagree that acidity level in oceans has risen 30 percent?

(2). Do you disagree that acidity in ocean kills coral reefs?

I have surfed all over the world professionally since early 80s ANSI have sim e first hand the death on many coral reefs over the years. Quite shocking actually.

Step away from the keyboard and see what is really going on . . .

Edited October 22, 2013 by F430murci

[MJP]

The oceans will soon be measured by radioactive half-life soon anyway.

[F430murci]

The oceans will soon be measured by radioactive half-life soon anyway.

Pathetic diversion because you guys refuse to answer any question directly. What about Harbin China and pollution so thick they cannot see another person standing directly in front of them? What about the 1.2 million people that died prematurely in China doe to pollution?

Edited October 22, 2013 by F430murci

[RickBradford]

I have surfed all over the world professionally since early 80s ANSI have sim e first hand the death on many coral reefs over the years.

So what? There was some other nincompoop on here earlier claiming that because he had once been to Antarctica, he knew that the continent was melting at a dangerous rate.

That is not science.

And if you, thanks to your extensive surfing experience, have concluded that overfishing cannot kill off coral reefs, you are in a very small and ignorant minority.

Even Wikipedia has got there:

Human impact on coral reefs is significant. Coral reefs are dying around the world. In particular, coral mining, pollution (organic and non-organic), overfishing, blast fishing and the digging of canals and access into islands and bays are serious threats to these ecosystems.

[F430murci]

I have surfed all over the world professionally since early 80s ANSI have sim e first hand the death on many coral reefs over the years.

So what? There was some other nincompoop on here earlier claiming that because he had once been to Antarctica, he knew that the continent was melting at a dangerous rate.

That is not science.

And if you, thanks to your extensive surfing experience, have concluded that overfishing cannot kill off coral reefs, you are in a very small and ignorant minority.

Even Wikipedia has got there:

Human impact on coral reefs is significant. Coral reefs are dying around the world. In particular, coral mining, pollution (organic and non-organic), overfishing, blast fishing and the digging of canals and access into islands and bays are serious threats to these ecosystems.

Again, fat lazy boy boy behind computer that never sees the world does not answer the basic questions:

(1) Has the acidity level of the oceans risen 30 % percent; and

(2). Does the rise in acidity kill coral reefs?

[MJP]

The oceans will soon be measured by radioactive half-life soon anyway.

Pathetic diversion because you guys refuse to answer any question directly. What about Harbin China and pollution so thick they cannot see another person standing directly in front of them? What about the 1.2 million people that died prematurely in China doe to pollution?

No it was because no one has watched the glacial retreat video I posted.

My degree is in Pollution Science and Engineering and I've worked in oil spill clean up and large scale brownfield regeneration for 20 years.

I still have no idea if climate change is man-made, however, James Balog does demonstrate glacial retreat is happening at an alarming pace.

Edited October 22, 2013 by MJP

[F430murci]

I have surfed all over the world professionally since early 80s ANSI have sim e first hand the death on many coral reefs over the years.

So what? There was some other nincompoop on here earlier claiming that because he had once been to Antarctica, he knew that the continent was melting at a dangerous rate.

That is not science.

And if you, thanks to your extensive surfing experience, have concluded that overfishing cannot kill off coral reefs, you are in a very small and ignorant minority.

Even Wikipedia has got there:

Human impact on coral reefs is significant. Coral reefs are dying around the world. In particular, coral mining, pollution (organic and non-organic), overfishing, blast fishing and the digging of canals and access into islands and bays are serious threats to these ecosystems.

And that was me that went on expidition with Gore, Tom Brokaw, Tommy Lee Jones, Kathy Matea, John Vezner, and etc. in 2012. Have you been there or just do you just sit behind you keyboard in tightiewhitiea?

[F430murci]

The oceans will soon be measured by radioactive half-life soon anyway.

Pathetic diversion because you guys refuse to answer any question directly. What about Harbin China and pollution so thick they cannot see another person standing directly in front of them? What about the 1.2 million people that died prematurely in China doe to pollution?

No it was because no one has watched the glacial retreat video I posted.

My degree is in Pollution Science and Engineering and I've worked in oil spill clean up and large scale brownfield regeneration for 20 years.

I still have no idea if climate change is man-made, however, James Balog does demonstrate glacial retreat is happening at an alarming pace.

Answer the questions:

(1) Has acidity in oceans risen 30 %; and

(2) Has acidity killed coral reefs, plankton and shell fish?

Do you disagree that CO2 being absorbed in ocean alter ph balance and increases acidity?

[MJP]

The oceans will soon be measured by radioactive half-life soon anyway.

Pathetic diversion because you guys refuse to answer any question directly. What about Harbin China and pollution so thick they cannot see another person standing directly in front of them? What about the 1.2 million people that died prematurely in China doe to pollution?

No it was because no one has watched the glacial retreat video I posted.

My degree is in Pollution Science and Engineering and I've worked in oil spill clean up and large scale brownfield regeneration for 20 years.

I still have no idea if climate change is man-made, however, James Balog does demonstrate glacial retreat is happening at an alarming pace.

Answer the questions:

(1) Has acidity in oceans risen 30 %; and

(2) Has acidity killed coral reefs, plankton and shell fish?

Do you disagree that CO2 being absorbed in ocean alter ph balance and increases acidity?

If you can link the research papers that demonstrate this within a reasonable probability and once I've read them, then maybe.

Beyond that I really wouldn't know whether it's 30%.

[RickBradford]

(1 & 3) Has the acidity level of the oceans risen 30 % percent; and

No. The oceans are alkaline, not 'acidic'. So the preferred phrase among those outside the surfing community is 'less alkaline', although this isn't scary enough for alarmists.

The latest IPCC estimate is that the hydrogen ion concentration (our mark of acidity/alkalinity) has risen 26% from the start of the industrial era to its current concentration of 0.0000000079%. This is linked to higher atmospheric CO2 levels.

Because pH is a logarithmic measure(sorry, you'll have to look that up yourself, unless Tommy Lee Jones explained it to you), it would have to grow by a factor of 10 (that is, 1000%) before the oceans came anywhere near neutral, and then 'acidic'.

(2). Does the rise in acidity kill coral reefs?

Apparently not, according to most scientists (see above).

Edited October 22, 2013 by RickBradford

[MJP]

I have surfed all over the world professionally since early 80s ANSI have sim e first hand the death on many coral reefs over the years.

So what? There was some other nincompoop on here earlier claiming that because he had once been to Antarctica, he knew that the continent was melting at a dangerous rate.

That is not science.

And if you, thanks to your extensive surfing experience, have concluded that overfishing cannot kill off coral reefs, you are in a very small and ignorant minority.

Even Wikipedia has got there:

Human impact on coral reefs is significant. Coral reefs are dying around the world. In particular, coral mining, pollution (organic and non-organic), overfishing, blast fishing and the digging of canals and access into islands and bays are serious threats to these ecosystems.

Rick,

Have you watched the Chasing Ice documentary?

I have no axe to grind either way, but it is compelling viewing.

[F430murci]

Do you disagree that we are losing vast expansions of coral reefs due to CO2?

Well, scientists worldwide generally disagree.

John M. Pandolfi, Sean R. Connolly, Dustin J. Marshall, Anne L. Cohen 2011: Science]

"The worlds largest coral reef off the east coast of Australia is not going to disappear as fast as once previously thought. Warnings that the Great Barrier Reef could die off due to climate change over the next 20 to 30 years are exaggerated....some current projections of global-scale collapse of reefs within the next few decades probably overestimate the rapidity and uniformity of the decline....reefs are naturally highly diverse and resilient, and are likely to respond to the changed conditions in different ways and at varying rates."

Takahashi, A. and Kurihara, H. 2013.

Ocean acidification does not affect the physiology of the tropical coral Acropora digitifera

[Laura M. Parker, Pauline M. Ross, Wayne A. O'Connor, Larissa Borysko, David A. Raftos, Hans-Otto Pörtner 2012: Global Change Biology]

"marine organisms may have the capacity to acclimate or adapt to elevated CO2 over the next century."

Form, A. U., and U. Riebesell, 2012.

Acclimation to ocean acidification during long-term CO2 exposure in the cold-water coral Lophela pertusa. ... a linear regression analysis reveals an increasing trend of coral growth with rising pCO2 concentration [decreasing pH].*

There are dozens more similar studies suggesting the same -- that the scare about dying coral reefs is more a publicity stunt than robust science.

You're cherry picking again - all these quotes are out of context and some are species specific, some don't even apply directly to coral!

you are out of straws and now scraping the barrel

​

Haha, sure he did. The funny part his is most scientist agree . . . Our reefs being devastated on a large scale and at an alarming rate.

Obviously, there are two camps here: big oil and the pesky environmentalist.

If environmentalist are wrong, we wasted a lot of time, money and effort.

If big oil is wrong, future generations will live in a a completely jacked up situation that may look a lot like Harbin China did today and no way of undoing the damage.

-----

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the pH of surface ocean waters has fallen by 0.1 pH units. Since the pH scale, like the Richter scale, is logarithmic, this change represents approximately a 30 percent increase in acidity. Future predictions indicate that the oceans will continue to absorb carbon dioxide and become even more acidic. Estimates of future carbon dioxide levels, based on business as usual emission scenarios, indicate that by the end of this century the surface waters of the ocean could be nearly 150 percent more acidic, resulting in a pH that the oceans havent experienced for more than 20 million years.

The Biological Impacts

Ocean acidification is expected to impact ocean species to varying degrees. Photosynthetic algae and seagrasses may benefit from higher CO2 conditions in the ocean, as they require CO2 to live just like plants on land. On the other hand, studies have shown that a more acidic environment has a dramatic effect on some calcifying species, including oysters, clams, sea urchins, shallow water corals, deep sea corals, and calcareous plankton. When shelled organisms are at risk, the entire food web may also be at risk.

http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F

-----

Australian researchers have now simulated future ocean conditions and found that coral reefs will start dissolving as the water temperatures and acidity increases.

The study was conducted by researchers at the University of Queensland and colleagues. They found that the predicted increase in carbon dioxide levels in the future could lead to destruction of reefs such as those found around Heron Island on Australia's Great Barrier Reef.

http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/3787/20130903/ocean-acidification-high-levels-ocarbon-dioxide-associated-coral-reef-death.htm

-----

In 2005, the U.S. lost half of its coral reefs in the Caribbean in one year due to a massive bleaching event. The warm waters centered around the northern Antilles near the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico expanded southward. Comparison of satellite data from the previous 20 years confirmed that thermal stress from the 2005 event was greater than the previous 20 years combined.

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/coral_bleach.html

-----

The researchers looked at how 1,707 coral reef locations would be affected under four different projections of rising carbon concentrations in the atmosphere over the century, as outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas that traps heat in our atmosphere.

All coral reefs will experience a yearly bleaching event by 2056 if carbon emissions keep increasing as aggressively as they have been, with more fossil fuels being burned and no efforts at emissions stabilization, the researchers found.

http://m.livescience.com/27460-coral-reef-bleaching-worldwide.html

[FiftyTwo]

If environmentalist are wrong, we wasted a lot of time, money and effort.

If big oil is wrong, future generations will live in a a completely jacked up situation that may look a lot like Harbin China did today and no way of undoing the damage.

If environmentalists are wrong they have already condemned millions of people from developing countries to death and hardship, along with damaging or destroying the world's industrial base.

[F430murci]

(1 & 3) Has the acidity level of the oceans risen 30 % percent; and

No. The oceans are alkaline, not 'acidic'. So the preferred phrase among those outside the surfing community is 'less alkaline', although this isn't scary enough for alarmists.

The latest IPCC estimate is that the hydrogen ion concentration (our mark of acidity/alkalinity) has risen 26% from the start of the industrial era to its current concentration of 0.0000000079%. This is linked to higher atmospheric CO2 levels.

Because pH is a logarithmic measure(sorry, you'll have to look that up yourself, unless Tommy Lee Jones explained it to you), it would have to grow by a factor of 10 (that is, 1000%) before the oceans came anywhere near neutral, and then 'acidic'.

(2). Does the rise in acidity kill coral reefs?

Apparently not, according to most scientists (see above).

Haha, I guess the folks at NOAA have it all wrong or are they also part of the conspiracy?

-----

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the pH of surface ocean waters has fallen by 0.1 pH units. Since the pH scale, like the Richter scale, is logarithmic, this change represents approximately a 30 percent increase in acidity. Future predictions indicate that the oceans will continue to absorb carbon dioxide and become even more acidic. Estimates of future carbon dioxide levels, based on business as usual emission scenarios, indicate that by the end of this century the surface waters of the ocean could be nearly 150 percent more acidic, resulting in a pH that the oceans havent experienced for more than 20 million years.

The Biological Impacts

Ocean acidification is expected to impact ocean species to varying degrees. Photosynthetic algae and seagrasses may benefit from higher CO2 conditions in the ocean, as they require CO2 to live just like plants on land. On the other hand, studies have shown that a more acidic environment has a dramatic effect on some calcifying species, including oysters, clams, sea urchins, shallow water corals, deep sea corals, and calcareous plankton. When shelled organisms are at risk, the entire food web may also be at risk.

. . .

Coral

Many marine organisms that produce calcium carbonate shells or skeletons are negatively impacted by increasing CO2 levels and decreasing pH in seawater. For example, increasing ocean acidification has been shown to significantly reduce the ability of reef-building corals to produce their skeletons. In a recent paper, coral biologists reported that ocean acidification could compromise the successful fertilization, larval settlement and survivorship of Elkhorn coral, an endangered species. These research results suggest that ocean acidification could severely impact the ability of coral reefs to recover from disturbance. Other research indicates that, by the end of this century, coral reefs may erode faster than they can be rebuilt. This could compromise the long-term viability of these ecosystems and perhaps impact the estimated one million species that depend on coral reef habitat.

http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F

[F430murci]

If environmentalist are wrong, we wasted a lot of time, money and effort.

If big oil is wrong, future generations will live in a a completely jacked up situation that may look a lot like Harbin China did today and no way of undoing the damage.

If environmentalists are wrong they have already condemned millions of people from developing countries to death and hardship, along with damaging or destroying the world's industrial base.

Haha, that is just stupid. No one is being condemned to death. Breathe in, breathe out, relax. It's gonna be okay.

We have technology for hybrid and electric cars. What is so bad about those. What's so horrible about Fisker, Telsa and Porsche 918? I am the worst when it comes to gas consumption, but I have to admit I am certainly found of that 918.

[RickBradford]

@F430murci

Haha, I guess the folks at NOAA have it all wrong or are they also part of the conspiracy?

What conspiracy would that be?

[FiftyTwo]

If environmentalist are wrong, we wasted a lot of time, money and effort.

If big oil is wrong, future generations will live in a a completely jacked up situation that may look a lot like Harbin China did today and no way of undoing the damage.

If environmentalists are wrong they have already condemned millions of people from developing countries to death and hardship, along with damaging or destroying the world's industrial base.

Haha, that is just stupid. No one is being condemned to death. Breathe in, breathe out, relax. It's gonna be okay.

We have technology for hybrid and electric cars. What is so bad about those. What's so horrible about Fisker, Telsa and Porsche 918? I am the worst when it comes to gas consumption, but I have to admit I am certainly found of that 918.

If you were serious about the environment, you would be driving a 110cc scooter (my normal family transport), not a hybrid car which takes 10x more of the worlds resources to create than a normal petrol car and uses 3x the fuel of my scooter.

I don't give a dam_n about the environment, but suspect I am still more environmentally friendly (aka tight with money) than most numbnuts who spout this environmental rubbish.

Edited October 22, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[MJP]

If environmentalist are wrong, we wasted a lot of time, money and effort.

If big oil is wrong, future generations will live in a a completely jacked up situation that may look a lot like Harbin China did today and no way of undoing the damage.

If environmentalists are wrong they have already condemned millions of people from developing countries to death and hardship, along with damaging or destroying the world's industrial base.

Haha, that is just stupid. No one is being condemned to death. Breathe in, breathe out, relax. It's gonna be okay.

We have technology for hybrid and electric cars. What is so bad about those. What's so horrible about Fisker, Telsa and Porsche 918? I am the worst when it comes to gas consumption, but I have to admit I am certainly found of that 918.

If you were serious about the environment, you would be driving a 110cc scooter (my normal family transport), not a hybrid car which takes 10x more of the worlds resources to create than a normal petrol car and uses 3x the fuel of my scooter.

I don't give a dam_n about the environment, but suspect I am still more environmentally friendly (aka tight with money) than most numbnuts who spout this environmental rubbish.

In the UK I had the torque curves on my VW Passat 'remapped' and changed the air filter type, also got the EGR delete kit. It's a turbo diesel thing. Between Walthamstow and Weston-super-Mare I got 75mpg!!! This was taking it very steady all the way mind. As standard the book says 60.1mpg is the best it can do.

You can do all sorts of things to reduce your environmental impact. I ride a Click here and rarely use the pick-up truck thing, only about 180km a month.

[FiftyTwo]

If environmentalists are wrong they have already condemned millions of people from developing countries to death and hardship, along with damaging or destroying the world's industrial base.

Haha, that is just stupid. No one is being condemned to death. Breathe in, breathe out, relax. It's gonna be okay.

We have technology for hybrid and electric cars. What is so bad about those. What's so horrible about Fisker, Telsa and Porsche 918? I am the worst when it comes to gas consumption, but I have to admit I am certainly found of that 918.

If you were serious about the environment, you would be driving a 110cc scooter (my normal family transport), not a hybrid car which takes 10x more of the worlds resources to create than a normal petrol car and uses 3x the fuel of my scooter.

I don't give a dam_n about the environment, but suspect I am still more environmentally friendly (aka tight with money) than most numbnuts who spout this environmental rubbish.

In the UK I had the torque curves on my VW Passat 'remapped' and changed the air filter type, also got the EGR delete kit. It's a turbo diesel thing. Between Walthamstow and Weston-super-Mare I got 75mpg!!! This was taking it very steady all the way mind. As standard the book says 60.1mpg is the best it can do.

You can do all sorts of things to reduce your environmental impact. I ride a Click here and rarely use the pick-up truck thing, only about 180km a month.

But,

Your many flights, cast your environmental views into doubt.