No green book but 'has invoice papers' (?)

[lemonjelly]

Can somebody tell me the implications of buying a motorbike that has no green book but has the invoice papers... apparantly it was imported from Japan... thnx in advance.

[PoorSucker]

Moved to bikes forum.

[Wong!]

The occasional 200bt fine (or more if you're gullible) if you are in a metropolis.

[ll2]

You will be the money cow of the police, no insurance and they can confiscate your bike. You will have a hard time selling it either.

Just dont buy!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jerry Cornelius]

You will be the money cow of the police, no insurance and they can confiscate your bike. You will have a hard time selling it either.

Just dont buy!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Seconded.

Nowadays there's lots of bikes to choose from in Thailand which are okay/good and totally comply with the local legislation. So why buy something that could well cause you problems. Unless of course it's something really exotic and all that see it stand back in awe. Including the cops and all other folks who can give you a hard time, given the slightest opportunity.

Jerry

[denkiblue555]

^^ what they said.

Realistically you are operating a vehicle that is legal to 'be' in Thailand, but not legal to be 'driven' on the roads.

(no problems for track bikes/off-road bikes and quads/MX etc..)

Very different from a bike imported in parts with no papers or tax paid etc.

All things considered, insurance would be my main concern if riding it regularly.

Muuuuuch less hassle to just buy something with a greenbook.

[Wong!]

You will be the money cow of the police, no insurance and they can confiscate your bike. You will have a hard time selling it either.

Just dont buy!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry, but that is complete <deleted>.

I'm not saying that anyone should buy an unplated bike over a plated bike but the police cannot confiscate the bike.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Wong!

[jbrain]

You will be the money cow of the police, no insurance and they can confiscate your bike. You will have a hard time selling it either.

Just dont buy!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry, but that is complete <deleted>.

I'm not saying that anyone should buy an unplated bike over a plated bike but the police cannot confiscate the bike.

Yes they can, i know of bikes that have been confiscated for that reason, and not from some dumb ass but someone who has a large bike rental business for over a decade.

[Wong!]

^ I know a guy whose entire motorcycle importation company was confiscated by the police, but it had nothing to do with anything he was doing illegally.

So, what you're saying is that you can import a bike legally and pay the taxes and then the police (whose job it isn't) can then confiscate it?

I'll file this thread on the mountain of ThaiVisa bullshit scaremongering threads if I can find some room for it.

[jbrain]

^ I know a guy whose entire motorcycle importation company was confiscated by the police, but it had nothing to do with anything he was doing illegally.

So, what you're saying is that you can import a bike legally and pay the taxes and then the police (whose job it isn't) can then confiscate it?

I'll file this thread on the mountain of ThaiVisa bullshit scaremongering threads if I can find some room for it.

No, what I'm saying is that police can confiscate a bike that isn't registered when you take it out on the road,

Or what do you think ? Currently you can't register an imported bike anymore, something on which the government made 100.000 Baht, but they now allow you to ride it unregistered so they can make 200 Baht

Last time I checked it was the police's job to check if your vehicle is legal to be on the road.

Edited September 20, 2013 by jbrain

[pastafarian]

The police can fine you and only fine you if you have the correct import papers and 3% excise tax paid. They can't (legally) confiscate the bike. There are some places where you are more likely to be fined/hassled about it than others (BKK, Pattaya,Phuket) but in most towns it isn't a problem. Will that change in the next 3-5yrs? Who knows!

[yankee99]

The police can fine you and only fine you if you have the correct import papers and 3% excise tax paid. They can't (legally) confiscate the bike. There are some places where you are more likely to be fined/hassled about it than others (BKK, Pattaya,Phuket) but in most towns it isn't a problem. Will that change in the next 3-5yrs? Who knows!

Can't or don't? can you please post the police order to backup your statement..

[properperson]

as my uncle percy would say...........

"no green book, no sale".........

[xbusman]

Jeeze, always interesting when opinions start flying around. The police here do any damn thing they want including kidnap, murder for hire and extortion. Always a good idea to stay clear of them and avoid breaking the vague and conflicting laws as they exist.

An unregistered bike on the road is a good excuse to exercise their trade and they have been to known to confiscate unregistered motorcycles. How much they do that, hard to say. Anecdotally it seems like a few hundred baht in countryside fixes most things on the spot.

My opinion, and feel free to disagree, stay legal where possible. Avoid vehicles with improper or unavailable registration. I have observed they are far more trouble than the potential savings.

[pastafarian]

The police can fine you and only fine you if you have the correct import papers and 3% excise tax paid. They can't (legally) confiscate the bike. There are some places where you are more likely to be fined/hassled about it than others (BKK, Pattaya,Phuket) but in most towns it isn't a problem. Will that change in the next 3-5yrs? Who knows!

Can't or don't? can you please post the police order to backup your statement..

Are you serious?! The burden of proof falls on those that say the police CAN confiscate the bike, they should post the police order that confirms a bike with the correct import papers and 3% excise tax CAN be confiscated! I know quite a few police, a couple ride unregistered big bikes, and they told me police can only fine riders of such bikes.

[pastafarian]

Jeeze, always interesting when opinions start flying around. The police here do any dam_n thing they want including kidnap, murder for hire and extortion. Always a good idea to stay clear of them and avoid breaking the vague and conflicting laws as they exist.

An unregistered bike on the road is a good excuse to exercise their trade and they have been to known to confiscate unregistered motorcycles. How much they do that, hard to say. Anecdotally it seems like a few hundred baht in countryside fixes most things on the spot.

My opinion, and feel free to disagree, stay legal where possible. Avoid vehicles with improper or unavailable registration. I have observed they are far more trouble than the potential savings.

Exactly and those type of police will take a bike if they fancy it whether it is registered or not, if they want it they'll find a reason! Thankfully they are few and far between and you'd be extremely unlucky to have your bike taken by one.

[billd766]

The police can fine you and only fine you if you have the correct import papers and 3% excise tax paid. They can't (legally) confiscate the bike. There are some places where you are more likely to be fined/hassled about it than others (BKK, Pattaya,Phuket) but in most towns it isn't a problem. Will that change in the next 3-5yrs? Who knows!

Can't or don't? can you please post the police order to backup your statement..

Are you serious?! The burden of proof falls on those that say the police CAN confiscate the bike, they should post the police order that confirms a bike with the correct import papers and 3% excise tax CAN be confiscated! I know quite a few police, a couple ride unregistered big bikes, and they told me police can only fine riders of such bikes.

There is a policeman riding a 600cc Honda Steed in the next village to me.

The number plate belongs to an old 2 stroke that has long since vanished, it has no green book.

He has personally told me that and I have had it confirmed by a couple of bike dealers in my village.

Where it came from I don't know but who will be stupid enough to argue with a policeman?

My personal advice is that if a bike has NO green book then walk away from it.

[Richard-BKK]

Currently Thailand police can confiscated a motor vehicle if they suspect that import duty is not paid, they have to inform the revenue department within one working day that they have impounded a motorcycle.

After that it's between the owner of the motor vehicle and the revenue department. Needles to say that you can not pay some tea money at the revenue department. Statistics show that 80% of all motor vehicles impounded by the revenue department are auctioned as owners cannot provide the correct paperwork.

I would advice anybody against buying a motorcycle without valid and official registration (greenbook and plates). For foreigners riding around with a fake/recycled greenbook you can get into more serious problems with the revenue department when they find out that your greenbook is fake. You can find yourself in court facing fraud charges.

By the way, riding/driving without a valid license plate is officially now-a-day 400 THB, but since not so long ago the traffic law has been amended so that this is only valid for a motor vehicle which is legally registered or is waiting for registration.

[cornishcarlos]

Currently Thailand police can confiscated a motor vehicle if they suspect that import duty is not paid, they have to inform the revenue department within one working day that they have impounded a motorcycle.

After that it's between the owner of the motor vehicle and the revenue department. Needles to say that you can not pay some tea money at the revenue department. Statistics show that 80% of all motor vehicles impounded by the revenue department are auctioned as owners cannot provide the correct paperwork.

I would advice anybody against buying a motorcycle without valid and official registration (greenbook and plates). For foreigners riding around with a fake/recycled greenbook you can get into more serious problems with the revenue department when they find out that your greenbook is fake. You can find yourself in court facing fraud charges.

By the way, riding/driving without a valid license plate is officially now-a-day 400 THB, but since not so long ago the traffic law has been amended so that this is only valid for a motor vehicle which is legally registered or is waiting for registration.

So they auction off illegal vehicles... Then what does the buyer do with it ? Drive/ride it illegally until it is confiscated again...!! It is a never ending, money making circle

[Richard-BKK]

Currently Thailand police can confiscated a motor vehicle if they suspect that import duty is not paid, they have to inform the revenue department within one working day that they have impounded a motorcycle.

After that it's between the owner of the motor vehicle and the revenue department. Needles to say that you can not pay some tea money at the revenue department. Statistics show that 80% of all motor vehicles impounded by the revenue department are auctioned as owners cannot provide the correct paperwork.

I would advice anybody against buying a motorcycle without valid and official registration (greenbook and plates). For foreigners riding around with a fake/recycled greenbook you can get into more serious problems with the revenue department when they find out that your greenbook is fake. You can find yourself in court facing fraud charges.

By the way, riding/driving without a valid license plate is officially now-a-day 400 THB, but since not so long ago the traffic law has been amended so that this is only valid for a motor vehicle which is legally registered or is waiting for registration.

So they auction off illegal vehicles... Then what does the buyer do with it ? Drive/ride it illegally until it is confiscated again...!! It is a never ending, money making circle

The auctions of motor vehicles from the revenue department is only open for registered companies (with tax number). Most companies buy this motorcycles and cars for parts which they will sell in Thailand legally. Or some motorcycles, which are worth it, can be registered by the Department of Land Transport (still environmental and exhaust emission testing has to be done) all by all the total average cost of registering a motorcycle obtained from the revenue is about 80,000 THB.

[pastafarian]

Currently Thailand police can confiscated a motor vehicle if they suspect that import duty is not paid, they have to inform the revenue department within one working day that they have impounded a motorcycle.

After that it's between the owner of the motor vehicle and the revenue department. Needles to say that you can not pay some tea money at the revenue department. Statistics show that 80% of all motor vehicles impounded by the revenue department are auctioned as owners cannot provide the correct paperwork.

I would advice anybody against buying a motorcycle without valid and official registration (greenbook and plates). For foreigners riding around with a fake/recycled greenbook you can get into more serious problems with the revenue department when they find out that your greenbook is fake. You can find yourself in court facing fraud charges.

By the way, riding/driving without a valid license plate is officially now-a-day 400 THB, but since not so long ago the traffic law has been amended so that this is only valid for a motor vehicle which is legally registered or is waiting for registration.

As usual Richard you are mistaken and misinforming people! The tax which needs to have been paid is the excise tax, not import tax, and without this a bike can be confiscated. So, like I said already, if a bike has correct import papers and proof the excise tax has been paid then a fine (400baht now) is the worst that can happen.

I've owned unregistered bikes and have been asked to produce the papers I mentioned by both police and some tax dept bods that pulled in at a PTT I was filling up at, when the papers were shown they left me alone.

[Richard-BKK]

Currently Thailand police can confiscated a motor vehicle if they suspect that import duty is not paid, they have to inform the revenue department within one working day that they have impounded a motorcycle.

After that it's between the owner of the motor vehicle and the revenue department. Needles to say that you can not pay some tea money at the revenue department. Statistics show that 80% of all motor vehicles impounded by the revenue department are auctioned as owners cannot provide the correct paperwork.

I would advice anybody against buying a motorcycle without valid and official registration (greenbook and plates). For foreigners riding around with a fake/recycled greenbook you can get into more serious problems with the revenue department when they find out that your greenbook is fake. You can find yourself in court facing fraud charges.

By the way, riding/driving without a valid license plate is officially now-a-day 400 THB, but since not so long ago the traffic law has been amended so that this is only valid for a motor vehicle which is legally registered or is waiting for registration.

As usual Richard you are mistaken and misinforming people! The tax which needs to have been paid is the excise tax, not import tax, and without this a bike can be confiscated. So, like I said already, if a bike has correct import papers and proof the excise tax has been paid then a fine (400baht now) is the worst that can happen.

I've owned unregistered bikes and have been asked to produce the papers I mentioned by both police and some tax dept bods that pulled in at a PTT I was filling up at, when the papers were shown they left me alone.

To be honest I do not mind it if people buy and ride unregistered motorcycle on the public road, I'm the owner of one of the companies that buys probably the most motorcycles from the Thai government.

And I could write a book about sad stories I have been told. I have seen men cry about losing there few week old Harley... I not care if you believe I not tell the truth, probably I would theoretically benefit more by telling that your motorcycle cannot be confiscated...

For tax and duties for importing a motorcycle you need to pay 3 different taxes and duty, first is the 80% import duty, second is 30% Excise Tax and last 10% Interior Tax + the regular 7% domestic sales tax (which is not really related to importing a motorcycle).

The revenue department can confiscated anything in Thailand if they expect that not all DUTY or TAX is paid (including the 7% sale tax). Not having a license plate is often enough to get your motorcycle be impounded by the Thai police for further investigation....

Edited September 21, 2013 by Richard-BKK

[pilm]

Simply not having insurance would put me off.

Sure you may not have to produce the green book to get it, but you likely will when it's time for them to pay out on a claim.

[paz]

Yes they can, i know of bikes that have been confiscated for that reason, and not from some dumb ass but someone who has a large bike rental business for over a decade.

That in itself seems to me a great reason for Thai cops to mess with someone and much more if a foreigner.

Edited September 21, 2013 by paz

[pastafarian]

Currently Thailand police can confiscated a motor vehicle if they suspect that import duty is not paid, they have to inform the revenue department within one working day that they have impounded a motorcycle.

After that it's between the owner of the motor vehicle and the revenue department. Needles to say that you can not pay some tea money at the revenue department. Statistics show that 80% of all motor vehicles impounded by the revenue department are auctioned as owners cannot provide the correct paperwork.

I would advice anybody against buying a motorcycle without valid and official registration (greenbook and plates). For foreigners riding around with a fake/recycled greenbook you can get into more serious problems with the revenue department when they find out that your greenbook is fake. You can find yourself in court facing fraud charges.

By the way, riding/driving without a valid license plate is officially now-a-day 400 THB, but since not so long ago the traffic law has been amended so that this is only valid for a motor vehicle which is legally registered or is waiting for registration.

As usual Richard you are mistaken and misinforming people! The tax which needs to have been paid is the excise tax, not import tax, and without this a bike can be confiscated. So, like I said already, if a bike has correct import papers and proof the excise tax has been paid then a fine (400baht now) is the worst that can happen.

I've owned unregistered bikes and have been asked to produce the papers I mentioned by both police and some tax dept bods that pulled in at a PTT I was filling up at, when the papers were shown they left me alone.

To be honest I do not mind it if people buy and ride unregistered motorcycle on the public road, I'm the owner of one of the companies that buys probably the most motorcycles from the Thai government.

And I could write a book about sad stories I have been told. I have seen men cry about losing there few week old Harley... I not care if you believe I not tell the truth, probably I would theoretically benefit more by telling that your motorcycle cannot be confiscated...

For tax and duties for importing a motorcycle you need to pay 3 different taxes and duty, first is the 80% import duty, second is 30% Excise Tax and last 10% Interior Tax + the regular 7% domestic sales tax (which is not really related to importing a motorcycle).

The revenue department can confiscated anything in Thailand if they expect that not all DUTY or TAX is paid (including the 7% sale tax). Not having a license plate is often enough to get your motorcycle be impounded by the Thai police for further investigation....

So why, on each and every occasion I've been asked to show papers, have they only asked for (and been happy with) the import papers and excise tax papers which in Thai are อินวอย+เสียสรรพสามิตรเเล้ว? Surely if they could have then they would have confiscated my bikes for not having the other tax and duty paid? Any pics of all these confiscated bikes you've bought Richard?

[paz]

So why, on each and every occasion I've been asked to show papers, have they only asked for (and been happy with) the import papers and excise tax papers which in Thai are อินวอย+เสียสรรพสามิตรเเล้ว? Surely if they could have then they would have confiscated my bikes for not having the other tax and duty paid? Any pics of all these confiscated bikes you've bought Richard?

Seems to me you're forgetting that you're in Thailand, and are referring to the cops as if it was some other country or even of law. It is not. As someone nicely put before, here they can steal, kidnap and kill and even get away with that, so what's the point of crucifixing the next guy that warns you what could happen?

If you're so sure about yourself being in the right driving around with no insurance, more power to you, keep doing, and good luck.

Edited September 22, 2013 by paz

[wantan]

I guess most policemen are happy to take some teamoney or collect a ticket to make their boss happy. Impounding a bike means work, writing reports, and such things. And often police is just friendly and let you ride without anything, because they are looking for special things like helmets, drugs and so on. But this all doesn't mean they are not allowed to excecute the law and to take your bike from the road if you continue riding it illegally. The law says: No unregistered bikes on public streets. Period

The police can do anything to execute the law as long as they stick to the law themselfes. Its their job to avoid danger for the public. And unregistered bikes are "a danger for the public and the environment". There is no testing of emissions, no security tests for older bikes, no plate to identify the owner, ...

[paz]

I guess most policemen are happy to take some teamoney or collect a ticket to make their boss happy. Impounding a bike means work, writing reports, and such things. And often police is just friendly and let you ride without anything, because they are looking for special things like helmets, drugs and so on. But this all doesn't mean they are not allowed to excecute the law and to take your bike from the road if you continue riding it illegally. The law says: No unregistered bikes on public streets. Period

Work yes but also much bigger bribe to release the bike after you show the "right" papers.

The police can do anything to execute the law as long as they stick to the law themselfes. Its their job to avoid danger for the public. And unregistered bikes are "a danger for the public and the environment". There is no testing of emissions, no security tests for older bikes, no plate to identify the owner, ...

I see your point but please do not try stick rational meanings of law and regulation on Thai situation where everything goes. Even in my country the periodic emission testing is a joke, either when made on a two years old bike (that I forgot to do, and got fined for, than you nanny), or a 20 years old car, that I pass because it's paid service and the guy likes my car anyway.

Law and regulations means nothing to people except scaremonging, and a job to those that enforces them.

Try asking a Thai (or even a Westerner) if it is right to shoot a thief in the back

Edited September 22, 2013 by paz

[Richard-BKK]

So why, on each and every occasion I've been asked to show papers, have they only asked for (and been happy with) the import papers and excise tax papers which in Thai are อินวอย+เสียสรรพสามิตรเเล้ว? Surely if they could have then they would have confiscated my bikes for not having the other tax and duty paid? Any pics of all these confiscated bikes you've bought Richard?

I'm very happy for you that you can ride around on an illegal motorcycle without insurance. But someday, maybe tomorrow, maybe next month you get stopped by the wrong police check point and you're without a motorcycle. When that happens we probably see a post on this forum that the Thai police is so bad, but the truth is that the police currently is not doing there job.

Maybe I have to move to your part of town, if you even live in Bangkok. In some rural villages and cities it's still no problem to have an unregistered motorcycle.

For pictures of motorcycles we bought from the government, I think it would be unappropriated to show pictures here, people are already hurt enough that they loose there motorcycle and not need me to rub some salt on open wounds. But if you tell me what your motorcycle(s) are and I will promise that when I have it I will publish the pictures here.

For everybody else who wants to buy a motorcycle in Thailand, stay away from unregistered motorcycles. Some motorcycle shops in Bangkok and probably other towns still try to sell them, some shops even try to sell them with red-license plates.... Just don't do it, now-a-days we have enough legal, no headache options to buy

[pastafarian]

So why, on each and every occasion I've been asked to show papers, have they only asked for (and been happy with) the import papers and excise tax papers which in Thai are อินวอย+เสียสรรพสามิตรเเล้ว? Surely if they could have then they would have confiscated my bikes for not having the other tax and duty paid? Any pics of all these confiscated bikes you've bought Richard?

I'm very happy for you that you can ride around on an illegal motorcycle without insurance. But someday, maybe tomorrow, maybe next month you get stopped by the wrong police check point and you're without a motorcycle. When that happens we probably see a post on this forum that the Thai police is so bad, but the truth is that the police currently is not doing there job.

Maybe I have to move to your part of town, if you even live in Bangkok. In some rural villages and cities it's still no problem to have an unregistered motorcycle.

For pictures of motorcycles we bought from the government, I think it would be unappropriated to show pictures here, people are already hurt enough that they loose there motorcycle and not need me to rub some salt on open wounds. But if you tell me what your motorcycle(s) are and I will promise that when I have it I will publish the pictures here.

For everybody else who wants to buy a motorcycle in Thailand, stay away from unregistered motorcycles. Some motorcycle shops in Bangkok and probably other towns still try to sell them, some shops even try to sell them with red-license plates.... Just don't do it, now-a-days we have enough legal, no headache options to buy

So no pics of all these confiscated bikes you've bought so as to not hurt the feelings of the people they were confiscated from, very kind...or full of <deleted>

The reputaion you have on here is deserved, I've lost count of how many of your posts have been ridiculed due to misinformation or just plain wrong, for someone supposedly in the know you actually know very little! Like I said already, I no longer ride an unregistered bike but the ones I did had the correct import papers, 3% (not 30%!) excise tax paid and compulsory government insurance from the local transport office which was good enough for both the police and tax officers, both of who requested to see only those papers.

I still ride with and know many owners of unregistered big bikes and none have had,or know anyone that has had, their bike confiscated so out of thousands there hasn't been one! Surely if you were right then the tens of thousands of bikes with only อินวอย+เสียสรรพสามิตรเเล้ว could be rounded up and confiscated which would be a very nice little earner for everyone concerned including the police and government!