Infamous video 'sniper' denies shooting at Red Shirts

[JAG]

In which case, in the British Army you would probably find yourself in front of a civilian court!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[hellodolly]

Well It makes no difference what they were firing. It is all rhetoric to stay away from the real issue.

As far as I am concerned they were firing in a justifiable situation. Why they make excuses for what they were firing is beyond me.

I can understand the PTPredshirts trying to rewrite history in such a way as the root causes and the people who were behind them are forgotten about. What I can't understand is why a foreigner with nothing else to gain for it would fall for it. That is provided they are not on Thaksins payroll and it is no secret he has foreigners on his payroll. You don't have to be a PTPredshirt to not have a conscience.

Who barricaded off public property?

Who forced small business out of business and deprived others of the chance to work and make honest money?

Who brought guns to a peaceful protest?

Who fired rockets into transit stations where there were no soldiers?

Who fired the first shot?

When it was all over was there any alcohol in the stores and bars left?

Was there any drugs other than antiseptic ones in the hospital the red shirts invaded?

Who negotiated a truce and backed out of it when it was accepted?

Last but not least who was the idiot that took the time to count the rounds of ammunition fired and couldn't come up with one round fired by the red shirts even though soldiers were killed.

Edited September 21, 2013 by hellodolly

[tingtongteesood]

If terrorists are throwing 'molotov cocktails' everywhere then they should be shot. The Red Terrorists deserved everything that happened to them and it is amazing that more didn't die considering their actions, any other country would have shot many hundreds of the idiots afder 1 week of the crap they did to make the point, the corrupt 'water melon' crappy police let them get away with murder for weeks ~!...

[fasteddie]

If you are throwing molotov cocktails at an army unit in any country or scenario, you are likely going to be shot. You are offering yourself into the 'rules of engagement'. So to be shot dead, you have no complaint. So really no need for the soldier to lie about live or dummy ammunition. Just tell the truth. He was throwing petrol bombs at us, so we shot his ass.

Perfectly acceptable.

If he's lying about firing blanks, perhaps he's lying about the victim throwing petrol bombs. When you've been around Thailand as long as I have, you will have seen many times the army have no compunction about murdering their own people.

[fasteddie]

How will any of this ever be resolved? The flimsiest of lies are accepted without challenge by the public. Not sure if PTT, Democrats, military and police think the average Thai is stupid so they don’t bother to invent better lies or everyone who is Thai lies to save face and the rest of their body and everyone knows that an explanation for an action is just a formality that no one expects to be the truthful.

"everyone who is Thai lies to save face and the rest of their body and everyone knows that an explanation for an action is just a formality that no one expects to be the truthful."

And that, in a nutshell, is Thailand.

[fasteddie]

Personally, I would wear that as a badge of honor!

I think I would have used water cannons, tear gas, and other, more traditional, methods of crowd control.

So would I if I had a police force to use them. That's a large part of the problem.

The red-shirt supporting police did nothing except pretend to arrest some leaders at a 5-star hotel. When a government is forced to use the army, it's obvious that more deaths would occur unfortunately (e.g. Derry in N.I.). Plus there's no doubt that the army had to deal with some heavily armed militia-types.

I'm not defending the 'firing blanks' bit as it is just ridiculous.

"Plus there's no doubt that the army had to deal with some heavily armed militia-types"

BS.

[MaiChai]

Sorry but I'm not really getting this at all.

 

 

A soldier shoots someone who is essentially about to throw a bomb, and this is defended by saying that he was only shooting blanks.

 

 

 

You really would have to be dumber than dumb to believe that is really what happened.

 

 

 

Oh, wait, it could have been an evil spirit.

TiT and the red shirts are now the good guys.

[yoshiwara]

If you are throwing molotov cocktails at an army unit in any country or scenario, you are likely going to be shot. You are offering yourself into the 'rules of engagement'. So to be shot dead, you have no complaint. So really no need for the soldier to lie about live or dummy ammunition. Just tell the truth. He was throwing petrol bombs at us, so we shot his ass.

Perfectly acceptable.

If he's lying about firing blanks, perhaps he's lying about the victim throwing petrol bombs. When you've been around Thailand as long as I have, you will have seen many times the army have no compunction about murdering their own people.

....rather than those who have been in Thailand 'as long as I have' who think the reds were on a friendly picnic for the day.

[A1Str8]

Thaksin's idea of Thai rak Thai: let's sit at home in a foreign country and while being safe and enjoying the wealth I acquired by taking from others, I am going to hire idiots to maintain a political turmoil, also a few hitmen to put a bullet in my fellow thais.

Sent from one of my devices using the internet

[waza]

Winging shots are not taken and in any case limb shots from rifles like this can be very deadly.

Wings hots are a concept dreamed up for movie heroes ...

I have read TV long enough to know that the soldiers did absolutely nothing wrong. All the courts need to do is read the threads over the last few years and it will become completely clear to them that all actions was justified. The army did not shoot anyone...............but if they did it was because they were attacked first...................... and if they were not attacked first then it was because there was a threat........................ but if there was no threat then it was because the Reds were causing an inconvenience to the ruling average citizens.

If you have been reading TV that long you would know that most of the TV members would think you were a fruitcake.

Lucky you were not in charge of the government back in 2010, if so there would be nothing left of the city and the redshirts would still be there "inconveniencing the citizens".

Personally, I would wear that as a badge of honor!

I think I would have used water cannons, tear gas, and other, more traditional, methods of crowd control.

If you had any knowledge of the red riots you would be aware thet the water cannons were captured by the reds at the begining of the riots and then used to fire rockets at the security forces for the remainder of the insurection. Further the more traditional methoods of crowd control such as police, riot shields and clubs and rubberbullets were either ineffective or countered with automatic weapons and granade launchers.

[AleG]

So would I if I had a police force to use them. That's a large part of the problem.

The red-shirt supporting police did nothing except pretend to arrest some leaders at a 5-star hotel. When a government is forced to use the army, it's obvious that more deaths would occur unfortunately (e.g. Derry in N.I.). Plus there's no doubt that the army had to deal with some heavily armed militia-types.

I'm not defending the 'firing blanks' bit as it is just ridiculous.

"Plus there's no doubt that the army had to deal with some heavily armed militia-types"

BS.

You must have grown in a very tough neighbourhood if you don't think using armament from IEDs, RPGs, grenade launchers, hand grenades, assault rifles and other fire arms is not being heavily armed.

Or you are being fed the aforementioned BS from the Thaksin/UDD "perception control" machine.

[mikemac]

If one watches the video at the beginning of MSG Kacharat Niamrord firing his rifle and at the end you click on the video there is link to a further 50 minute video to download.

Clearly shown soldiers are using live rounds initially around Lumpini park but MSG Kacharat Niamrord sees fit to claim that he was not and he was taking aim and firing blanks.

Right.

Why not as state as many here claim that he was only doing his duty and defending himself and his colleagues from terrorists but he doesn't.

Afte all his colleagues fired 2500 sniper rounds and 120,000 ordinary rounds as well as shotgun shells and rubber bullets(maybe) and heavy machine gun bullets on the 10th April.

Anyone here watched the video of the heavy machine gun mounted on top of the APC firing towards the red shirts on April 10th?

Is it any wonder that paramedics and journalist ended up being shot?

Anything that moved was shot.

Where we were, standing at 300 meters distance from the protestors, the soldiers could shoot without fear from molotovs, stones, slingshots nor home made rockets.

In certain places in the world, people who defend the actions of terrorists and condemn the country's armed forces for fighting terrorism, would probably end up tarred and feathered. Boy, what I would not give to see some clown tarred and feathered !

[Baerboxer]

The United Nations is monitoring this and I don't think they will find the story believable or even plausible. The reputation of the Thai army and government is on the line with these trials though there has not been much media attention.

Do you think anyone actually gives a shit what the UN believe? Do you think people anywhere will believe the Red history re-write that says they were peaceful protesters seeking a return to democracy (or in reality the return to power of a convicted criminal fugitive who had to be previously forcibly removed from illegally holding on to power); and that the army fired on the innocent peaceful demonstrators? Occupying and terrorising hospitals, arson, theft, assault, criminal damage, obstructing citizens, harrassing foreigners and demanding their passports, and killing soldiers - all conveniently forgotten illegal activities carried out by the peaceful democracy loving protesters.

The reality is that keeping face is everything, If that means telling a few lies, making up unbelievable stories then so what. No one here likes to challenge what is answered in response to a question, no matter how ridiculous the answer may be. It is a very different way of thinking and communicating than the more direct and blunt ways in the West.

Most expats that I know, who were here during that unfortunate time, would not think it unreasonable for the army to use live rounds in the circumstances.

[hellodolly]

"everyone who is Thai lies to save face and the rest of their body and everyone knows that an explanation for an action is just a formality that no one expects to be the truthful."

And that, in a nutshell, is Thailand.

You really do need to see someone and get help, now !

There are many travel agents willing to help him. In fact anxious to help him.

[JulesMad]

blanks with a sniper gun....

Is that not that the same as driving very fast in a Maserati with no petrol?!?

[philw]

Actually there was one amazing case where a pistol was literally shot out of the hand of a nut in America (without even injuring him) but this is a real exception.

I would give it a go, although I am not a good shooter by any means, if the redshirt had a molotov cocktail in his hand !

Got any evidence of a demonstrator, with a molotov cocktail in his hand, being shot by the RTA ???

There's quite a lot of evidence of unarmed people being shot in in the head by the RTA.

Where is your evidence of molotov laden demonstrators shot by the army ???

Any body on this thread got ANY evidence to show self defence by the RTA and justifiable shooting of Thai civilians ???

The RTA kiled scores of people and wounded thousands, where is the evidence that they were "rightfully" shot ???

[15Peter20]

If you had any knowledge of the red riots you would be aware thet the water cannons were captured by the reds at the begining of the riots and then used to fire rockets at the security forces for the remainder of the insurection. Further the more traditional methoods of crowd control such as police, riot shields and clubs and rubberbullets were either ineffective or countered with automatic weapons and granade launchers.

"the water cannons were captured by the reds at the begining of the riots and then used to fire rockets at the security forces"

Hysterical and hilarious at the same time.

[waza]

Actually there was one amazing case where a pistol was literally shot out of the hand of a nut in America (without even injuring him) but this is a real exception.

I would give it a go, although I am not a good shooter by any means, if the redshirt had a molotov cocktail in his hand !

Got any evidence of a demonstrator, with a molotov cocktail in his hand, being shot by the RTA ???

There's quite a lot of evidence of unarmed people being shot in in the head by the RTA.

Where is your evidence of molotov laden demonstrators shot by the army ???

Any body on this thread got ANY evidence to show self defence by the RTA and justifiable shooting of Thai civilians ???

The RTA kiled scores of people and wounded thousands, where is the evidence that they were "rightfully" shot ???

Show us this copius amount of evidence that the RTA shot any unarmed people in the head.

Edited September 22, 2013 by waza

[waza]

If you had any knowledge of the red riots you would be aware thet the water cannons were captured by the reds at the begining of the riots and then used to fire rockets at the security forces for the remainder of the insurection. Further the more traditional methoods of crowd control such as police, riot shields and clubs and rubberbullets were either ineffective or countered with automatic weapons and granade launchers.

"the water cannons were captured by the reds at the begining of the riots and then used to fire rockets at the security forces"

Hysterical and hilarious at the same time.

Gunshots rang out throughout the night and into the morning in central Bangkok. At daybreak, a group of protesters captured and vandalized two military water cannon trucks at the intersection of Sathorn and Rama IV roads in the heart of the business district. They ripped the cannon from its moorings and used its plastic barrel to shoot firecrackers from behind a sandbag bunker they had commandeered from soldiers

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/13/thailand-readies-lockdown-red-shirts-says-shoot-terrorists-defy/#ixzz2fcj7CPc2

[Skywalker69]

I might believe "rubber" bullets but not blanks.

You should be working for the Thai army JAG Corps!

You´r a clown, right?

[tominbkk]

If a terrorist is lobbing molotov cocktails, trying to kill civilians and overthrow the government, I think it is acceptable to put them down.

[philw]

Actually there was one amazing case where a pistol was literally shot out of the hand of a nut in America (without even injuring him) but this is a real exception.

I would give it a go, although I am not a good shooter by any means, if the redshirt had a molotov cocktail in his hand !

Got any evidence of a demonstrator, with a molotov cocktail in his hand, being shot by the RTA ???

There's quite a lot of evidence of unarmed people being shot in in the head by the RTA.

Where is your evidence of molotov laden demonstrators shot by the army ???

Any body on this thread got ANY evidence to show self defence by the RTA and justifiable shooting of Thai civilians ???

The RTA kiled scores of people and wounded thousands, where is the evidence that they were "rightfully" shot ???

Show us this copius amount of evidence that the RTA shot any unarmed people in the head.

Answer the question.......................

If you can.

[15Peter20]

If you had any knowledge of the red riots you would be aware thet the water cannons were captured by the reds at the begining of the riots and then used to fire rockets at the security forces for the remainder of the insurection. Further the more traditional methoods of crowd control such as police, riot shields and clubs and rubberbullets were either ineffective or countered with automatic weapons and granade launchers.

"the water cannons were captured by the reds at the begining of the riots and then used to fire rockets at the security forces"

Hysterical and hilarious at the same time.

Gunshots rang out throughout the night and into the morning in central Bangkok. At daybreak, a group of protesters captured and vandalized two military water cannon trucks at the intersection of Sathorn and Rama IV roads in the heart of the business district. They ripped the cannon from its moorings and used its plastic barrel to shoot firecrackers from behind a sandbag bunker they had commandeered from soldiers

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/13/thailand-readies-lockdown-red-shirts-says-shoot-terrorists-defy/#ixzz2fcj7CPc2

I see. My mistake. I thought when you mentioned 'rockets' you were talking about some kind of military grade weapon, when really what you actually meant was fireworks.

[Yunla]

I edit typos only, coz I have late stage MS, am 3/4 blind and its like typing with two lumps of wood.

I happened to read your post before I wrote my first reply. When I posted, I saw your edit. You didn't correct any

typo"; you added the Thaksin BS at the end.

I had to edit my post stating that I was suprised that no one had denied that the army killed anyone. But you, apparently, had simply forgotten to do that in your original, unedited post.

Well okay, some facts. I edit posts for typos, grammar errors, and cognitive errors, the latter being caused by my brain lesions which interrupt the process of memory to output.. If a sentence doesn't read right I will edit the words. This is a purely linguistic device, it is the same as typos or grammar errors. I type extremely fast, and tend to post it directly, usually I haven't made too many errors and will leave it if its just slightly glitched. I used to be a very good typist, but I really am struggling with what is the final years of my primary progressive MS and sometimes I can't see further than a few inches really..

More importantly, and this is very important, if I change the CONTENT of a piece, I will add the suffix ; "EDIT: <reason>" and explain why I changed the actual content. This is simply good manners, because somebody might have responded to the original content, so I would feel bad if I changed content and didn't underline what/why I changed. I do this on the Social Science forum I have been an original member of for 20~ years, it is especially important there because we are processing cross-referenced data and so you can not change posts without shifting the surrounding data. However, I have no need to change content in posts on a news forum. If I read a news story I already know what I think about it and just say it.

You seem to be saying that I changed something relating to Thaksin. Perhaps you could say what I originally wrote, or generally how my piece changed direction. My editing-time on that piece was perhaps 45 seconds between posting and reposting the cleaned-up edit. Are you really telling me that my opinions on Thaksin changed radically during those 45 seconds? I assure you they did not. I was in Bangkok in 2010 all year including the wonderful redshirt horde episode. I formed opinions back then, which have not changed in 3 years. In the interests of truth, I infact edited 3-4 typos and 2-3 cognitive errors that made a sentence unreadable.

Or perhaps you are criticising a minor typo edit, and calling my post BS because you genuinely don't have anything bright to say on the content of my post itself.

Nice mask by the way.

[rubl]

Actually there was one amazing case where a pistol was literally shot out of the hand of a nut in America (without even injuring him) but this is a real exception.

I would give it a go, although I am not a good shooter by any means, if the redshirt had a molotov cocktail in his hand !

Got any evidence of a demonstrator, with a molotov cocktail in his hand, being shot by the RTA ???

There's quite a lot of evidence of unarmed people being shot in in the head by the RTA.

Where is your evidence of molotov laden demonstrators shot by the army ???

Any body on this thread got ANY evidence to show self defence by the RTA and justifiable shooting of Thai civilians ???

The RTA kiled scores of people and wounded thousands, where is the evidence that they were "rightfully" shot ???

"the situation grew tense in the afternoon as 3-4 M79 grenade attacks landed near his unit′s position,"

It doesn't justify that the army may or may not have shot innocent, peaceful protesters, but it goes ways to explain why it could have happened once some 'militants' were bent on escalating started helping the innocents.

[metisdead]

Nonsense posts and replies have been removed.

[hellodolly]

Actually there was one amazing case where a pistol was literally shot out of the hand of a nut in America (without even injuring him) but this is a real exception.

I would give it a go, although I am not a good shooter by any means, if the redshirt had a molotov cocktail in his hand !

Got any evidence of a demonstrator, with a molotov cocktail in his hand, being shot by the RTA ???

There's quite a lot of evidence of unarmed people being shot in in the head by the RTA.

Where is your evidence of molotov laden demonstrators shot by the army ???

Any body on this thread got ANY evidence to show self defence by the RTA and justifiable shooting of Thai civilians ???

The RTA kiled scores of people and wounded thousands, where is the evidence that they were "rightfully" shot ???

"the situation grew tense in the afternoon as 3-4 M79 grenade attacks landed near his unit′s position,"

It doesn't justify that the army may or may not have shot innocent, peaceful protesters, but it goes ways to explain why it could have happened once some 'militants' were bent on escalating started helping the innocents.

Beg to differ. There are no innocents in a camp that is armed and firing rounds and rockets at soldiers and transit stations with innocent civilians in them. A camp with leaders urging their followers to burn Bangkok down. A camp sheltering scum that invade hospitals. A camp that actually makes an attempt to burn Bangkok down.

In a month and a half any one who was innocent had left the camp.

[peecee]

The red shirt leadership wanted casualties, in a forced-martyrdom operation, to give them extra leverage with the public. Red shirt leaders were quoted during the later stages of the seige, saying "deaths among our numbers can only further our cause."

The redshirts had occupied for months, been given medical treatment (when they poured their own blood everywhere), food and drinks, and a place to stage peaceful protest. They got months of protest time, in contrast with most other nations where they would have had ten hours at most, before being forcibly removed in the first evening. They were granted early elections, which was what they demanded. Nonetheless they did not go home. Why? Why were they encouraged to stay in that place, a 'hot zone', after they had made their point and got their early elections. The weather was very hot, the authorities were getting stressed out after months of seige, tensions were rising, and the reds did not go home. Why? The only reason the redshirt leadership did not order a close to the seige, after getting early elections, is that they wanted martyrs. Some people, including me, believe that the only snipers making killshots were foreign contractors hired by Thaksin, pro-shooters who were taking out reds and soldiers alike in an effort to escalate the situation and lead to immediate overthrow of the PM. Early elections were not enough for "some people." If you want to know who ordered the kills, look at those people first.

JFK syndrome or what?

Same could be said about the airport occupation other than there was no bloodbath.

[peecee]

I asked in an earlier post if anyone knew the RoE (Rules of Engagement) being used during the protest riots at the time of the shootings, and why we are seeing these pitiful excuses to cover the actions of the military, or rather cover the commands given on the day.

Although only loosely related, the attached is a copy of (the British) Army Code No. 70771, anybody serving in Northern Ireland would have known this as the "Yellow Card". This was a guideline for the British serviceman's Rules of Engagement. Even though this is a 1972 review, it has changed little since then and it, or similar, is prevalent to most armed forces worldwide today.

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum//public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif NI_RoE_Yellow Card_Reviewed 1972.pdf

Item 9 on page two is reference petrol bombs:

You may fire after due warning.............

9. Against a person throwing a petrol bomb if petrol bomb attacks continue in your area against troops and civilians or against property, if his action is likely to endanger life.

Of course, this means nothing if the RoE was deemed as different on the day.

.

I suspect that the Yellow Card in use on that day contained instructions along the lines of: It is time to send a clear unambiguous signal to these people, that we ( those that hold the reigns of power ) are prepared to use all force necessary to keep that power.

Interesting that two Senior NCOs did the shooting, but then it would always be difficult to persuade conscripts to open fire on their own people. Unfortunately for these two SNCOs the wrong side went on to win the election, and they are being hung out to dry.

Incidentally, if a WO 1 was only driving the panzer - what rank was the commander!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You're thinking about their command structure is right on, the junior rank's were probably not up to it; so the colonels driver got the job. As for the sniper training; must come in useful driving a tank! Can you imagine an army were the wo man gets a job sniping?

[Thai at Heart]

This is obviously BS, he should be indicted on charges of breaking the RoE and murder.

Has anyone from the army outlined the RoE during the riots? This should be a keypoint in the entire investigation. Against popular belief, sniper teams do not engage off their own backs, these teams have to be following orders from higher up.

As commented before, without a proper attachment or fitting on the weapon, the weapon will not be effective firing blank rounds. it is the first time I have ever seen a spotter being used for a sniper using blanks, the only reason I can think off would be training to ensure the sniper had his/her procedures right, which wouldn't be the case here.

The ROE as given to the army have been public knowledge for ages. At what point the army may or may not shoot etc etc is fairly clearly defined in those papers.