personal loan where do you go

[pistachios]

sell the fortuners and buy second hand jazz for a start

[MobileContent]

Plus he no longer has any nest egg for retirement

So is it the best solution.. No... But can his wife get a loan and consolidate his debt... Yes!

And would certainly be better than going to a loan shark!

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Im the wife!!!!!!!!!!!! Why would i get a loan to bail out FOOL husband.

There are times in life where one just has to admit they were STUPID and move on. This is one of those times. He doesnt even have 400,000 for his visa. Where is the wife in all this? Im thinking the wife wants op to move on too!

Theres got to be a business for advising farangs doing business with family. Charge 10,000 baht and just have a boilerplate form letter saying DONT DO IT!

Anyway what is op going to show bkk bank as income?. He has no assets as its all in wfies name.

Im starting to think this isnt for real. It just cant be.

This is the real world in Thailand.

If you have a good wife then you would never got yourself in that kind of deal. Employing some step daughter plus taking care of a lot of more family members.

This smells disaster and I think the Mrs will find a new hubby when this hubby can't cough up the money.

Sorry to say but their are farangs in Thailand that have no clues in running a business and also got no six senses when things is enough.

I am too running a business in the middle of nowhere with around 300,000 Baht in profits per month and I pay 30,000 Baht in a car loan for the next 2 years. All right my clients are in Bangkok but it doesn't matter where the clients are.

So far so good, but when I saw that Nissan Teana 300XL for 1.7 million Baht my Mrs said NO also I would have loved to buy that limo.

So we still have that Isuzu MU7 and I have an agreement with my Mrs as soon I hit 500k per month I can go again to the Nissan showroom or I save 4 months and can buy the Teana cash in my name.

My wife hates to spend money. She don't care if I spend 10k at Tops but she don't want to spend more then 200 Baht at Tesco or Market Isaan.

[oogster8]

Its a good thing for every one bad story we haev 10 positive ones.......................lol!

[rgs2001uk]

Plus he no longer has any nest egg for retirement

So is it the best solution.. No... But can his wife get a loan and consolidate his debt... Yes!

And would certainly be better than going to a loan shark!

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Im the wife!!!!!!!!!!!! Why would i get a loan to bail out FOOL husband.

There are times in life where one just has to admit they were STUPID and move on. This is one of those times. He doesnt even have 400,000 for his visa. Where is the wife in all this? Im thinking the wife wants op to move on too!

Theres got to be a business for advising farangs doing business with family. Charge 10,000 baht and just have a boilerplate form letter saying DONT DO IT!

Anyway what is op going to show bkk bank as income?. He has no assets as its all in wfies name.

Im starting to think this isnt for real. It just cant be.

Im starting to think this isnt for real. It just cant be.

Oh yes I can believe alright, the sums involved also sound about right.

2 million for the land, then either a 3 storey apt with 8 rooms per floor, or 2 storey with 12 rooms per floor with a build cost of say 10 million.

I remember a few years ago this seemed to be all the rage, build cheap accomodataion and rent out to either students and/or workers.

And another reason I thinks its for real, I knew a guy who was considering the same idea, 'til it was pointer out to him the legal implications and the ROI, he quickly decided his retirement money was best placed elsewhere.

For some strange reason the romance soon fizzled out.

There are way too many farang eager to come here and retire they jump at the first opportunity presented to them.

I dare say if the OP had spent a few years in Thailand living full time he would soon have discarded this idea.

Personally I think as far as the OP is concerned, his ass is grass.

[mccw]

He said 2million land build cost 8 million

60k pm income = 720,000bht per year

Equals a 7.2% gross return

This is not too bad at all.

Singapore, London, Hong Kong, New York etc all make around 3-4% at the moment.

Student rentals in UK can be 7+% but more risk with laws protecting tenants rights in case they decide not to pay, legal fees, court and everything. + agents fees and repairs.

His investment is not bad at all. Compare shares making a few paltry % or bank deposits even worse, bonds and shares can be lost completely, while his "wife's" appartment is always there.

His problem is not his investment but his debts/ choice of biz partners.

A couple of points.

You don't need to loan:

-The 400k for visa is not needed. Go to Loas and they give you value of 6months tourist visa.

- the car on your DinL name so let her default if she isn't reasonable enough to work and contribute to the payments.

- you live on 4 rai of land. Start growing some food, get some chickens, seriously. Just chill out simple life until wife realises you don't have wads of cash hidden off shore you can call on. See how it goes. Don't make it worse by loaning more and going completely underwater

[MobileContent]

He said 2million land build cost 8 million

60k pm income = 720,000bht per year

Equals a 7.2% gross return

This is not too bad at all.

Singapore, London, Hong Kong, New York etc all make around 3-4% at the moment.

Student rentals in UK can be 7+% but more risk with laws protecting tenants rights in case they decide not to pay, legal fees, court and everything. + agents fees and repairs.

His investment is not bad at all. Compare shares making a few paltry % or bank deposits even worse, bonds and shares can be lost completely, while his "wife's" appartment is always there.

His problem is not his investment but his debts/ choice of biz partners.

A couple of points.

You don't need to loan:

-The 400k for visa is not needed. Go to Loas and they give you value of 6months tourist visa.

- the car on your DinL name so let her default if she isn't reasonable enough to work and contribute to the payments.

- you live on 4 rai of land. Start growing some food, get some chickens, seriously. Just chill out simple life until wife realises you don't have wads of cash hidden off shore you can call on. See how it goes. Don't make it worse by loaning more and going completely underwater

Got a friend in Singapore. Rented a shophouse and converted it to a guesthouse. Rental per month = S$ 1500 for 7 rooms. He rent each room for 59 S$ PER DAY. Net profit around 6000 S$ per month. They key is not focus on students but on tourists. BTW he too got a guesthouse in Hong Kong which even makes more money as it is next to the HKU.

The OP should have find a place to lease/rent for a start to familiarize himself with the apartment situation in Chiang Rai but my guess Mrs. told him its a good investment and family standby to assist him against monthly payment of course.

I have been thinking for the past 2 years to open a small apartment in Sakon Nakhon or a resort but I am only willing to build it if some tour operators guarantee me that they can fill up at least 30% of the rooms from the tours that starts either in Nongkai, Mukdahan or Udon Thani. I got confirmed only 20% so I declined and keep now digging for 40% commitments. As the rooms are on allotments I would have guaranteed income on a daily basis even if the inbound operator doesn't take up the rooms which I could then either rent out per night or short-time.

What the OP should focus on is Internet. Hostalworld, Agoda etc. and frankly speaking it's quiet easy to fill up 24 apartments on a daily basis. I have been in the business for the past 15 years to fill up hotel rooms on a daily basis in the category of 200-400 rooms.

To the OP, please feel free to send me a PM and also attach me some photos of your rooms and the GEO location.

[mccw]

Mobile content.

Your friends Singapore biz- might sound great but many risk factors to be aware of if considering. Like the length of the lease and how much he had to invest in the conversion. Occupancy is a bit question mark. Spending significant sums on a building wich isn't yours and then crossing fingers that it turns out ok isn't really acceptable to everybodies risk tolerance. Good for him it worked out, but targeting tourists isn't always the best because occupancy ? and competion is often fierce and unpredictable especially in Thailand.

Your low budget hotel could work ok. I look in to it too. Its good because Thai more than foriegn target. I don't know where your getting the occupancy ideas from but to be safe i worked off 50% occupancy target and if more its a bonus. But consider the extra costs, 24hr front desk, security, laundry, housekeeping, great risk of unprotected damages etc etc.

say one room at 2500 long term, but 300bht per night at 100% say 30 days = 9000 x his 24 rooms = 216,000pm

50% = 108,000

30% = 64,000

Costs of staff say 3x 12-15k pm for front desk, house keepers another 25pm, security 15k

So just staff your at over the 30% figure

Then you've got all them sheets to laundry. Ellectric and water is all on you instead of making a cut off the tenants.

So realistically 50% occupancy is worse than renting monthly. You'd get probably 25k pm.

Then there is trust issues of staff declaring every renter who turns up with out bookings. Il unless living insite and alway around not so easy to check. More time and management- headaches.

You'd need occupancy of 70-80% to be breaking even with the long terms. So your gambling on that last 20% occupancy to make all that extra head ache and time worth your while. Not only worth your whole but not loosing you money instead if less.

I decided against it as soon as I got in to the nbers properly and thought it through practically on how much management headaches dealing with all those Thai staff.

If doing it it would really need to bigger scale; so not the ops place. In a location with really high demand.

These figures are just roughly talking and can be less if whole family wants to run it and not pay staff. Sounds like they live a way off, planned for a quiet life and hard enough to get the others to lift a finger let alone commit to such a lot of work.

His plan to keep it simple would have been just fine if he/ the women hasn't bought the new cars. 60k a month is plenty even for the whole extended family to live off if they hadn't got greedy; especially if utilising the land so practically no food bills; no rent to pay; ellectric and water penuts.

Maybe he should go and live in the temple for a couple months and let the women default on cars; once they are gone can go back, buy a motor bike, have a Chat with the women about this the result of over extending oneself in to debt, "see we lost the cars and deposit money, what a waste" , "lets save the remaining money after living cost from rentals andonly but when we can afford it". Being a monk for a bit the culturally must pay him a bit more respect and probably hopefully be scared of karma enough not to kick him out or screw him over.

Let the cars get taken away and they must listen/ realise how reality.

Unfortunately OP seems to not want to accept realitity either though.

[mccw]

So to the OP, question really is not a money problem at all- the real problem is how to get family to see / accept reality. I bet loosing the cars will do the trick. Just let it happen. Take care yourself.

[tango]

I take it that there's nothing including property, land, cars in the OP's name; he simply foots the bills as the proverbial walking ATM. This is how many farangs, including myself at one stage, position themselves for a financial flogging because of 'love' etc. Reality raises its head normally only when it's too late.

Wife not wanting to help is a really serious bad sign: it seems this is not a marriage but a cash-cow one-way relationship. She should be the one, not the OP, seeking out loans; from her extended family, friends, banks, etc.

As was wisely advised the OP absolutely must stay well clear of so-called 'finance' companies and local area 'lenders' - all mafia, and all protected when it comes to putting the boots to those not paying up each month; and in the CMai area their rates are 10% per month.

The OP knows of course in his heart of hearts that it's over.

He's been raked over, picked clean, and brought to ruin no less by the person and persons he loves.

He should now plan for a 'silent' (telling no one including "wife") strategic withdrawal. He has to face the fact that his Thai (mis)adventure is over like so many before, currently, and after him. Put aside monies now to cover airfare home to an arranged temporary living situation with family or friends in the UK(?). Pray he doesn't have any medical issues in the meantime. Depart surreptitiously with a cover story he's off to a new bank manager who seems willing to help: hop on plane, have a much needed scotch and kiss it goodbye from the aircraft window.

Personal financial recovery will take time - but it will happen; but the lifting of the stress he's now under will be in large measure it's own reward. Possibly return sometime late in the future to see the wreck his 'spouse' either avoided or is immersed in.

Good luck OP - Like you, many of us are down the road taken, I'm sorry to say.

[fletchsmile]

You are really leaving yourself open to be flamed. Nobody in their right mind would take on loan repayments of 50,000 Baht per month with an income of 60,000.

Trying to pay off loans early involves penalties, so if you can get another loan, you are not likely to benefit even if the interest rate is lower.

Getting a loan to pay a loan is never a good idea anyway. Very irresponsible borrowing in the first place.

totster

You should let Mr.Obama on that one Totster - totally agree.

To OP,

As the first reply said: Sell the land and use it to pay off your debts, or at least as much as you can of them leaving 400k for your visa.

Then sit down with the family work out what you can really afford to spend, and learn to live within your means. The wife probably won't be too happy selling land, but at least it will be a wake up call too her for how bad things are.

Based on the numbers supplied your business doesn't sound worth 12mio to me if it only generates the level of income you mention unless it's an asset based or other some other valuation, in which case there may be assets from there you could sell. Given it's your only source of income, probably not a good idea to sell it either until you find something else that could replace that income. Otherwise I'd see you selling the business, then the family spending the proceeds, and zero income coming in.

Cheers

Fletch

Cheers

Fletch

[rgs2001uk]

He said 2million land build cost 8 million

60k pm income = 720,000bht per year

Equals a 7.2% gross return

This is not too bad at all.

Singapore, London, Hong Kong, New York etc all make around 3-4% at the moment.

Student rentals in UK can be 7+% but more risk with laws protecting tenants rights in case they decide not to pay, legal fees, court and everything. + agents fees and repairs.

His investment is not bad at all. Compare shares making a few paltry % or bank deposits even worse, bonds and shares can be lost completely, while his "wife's" appartment is always there.

His problem is not his investment but his debts/ choice of biz partners.

A couple of points.

You don't need to loan:

-The 400k for visa is not needed. Go to Loas and they give you value of 6months tourist visa.

- the car on your DinL name so let her default if she isn't reasonable enough to work and contribute to the payments.

- you live on 4 rai of land. Start growing some food, get some chickens, seriously. Just chill out simple life until wife realises you don't have wads of cash hidden off shore you can call on. See how it goes. Don't make it worse by loaning more and going completely underwater

I will take your figures to be correct.

I have rental properties in the UK, one of them worth 10 million baht gives me 40k baht per month.

I dare say by the time the OP knocks off tax and non rentals he was probably looking at about 50k per month.

I have seen nothing here that makes me want to sell my properties and invest here.

The OP is guilty of being nothing more than an innocent abroad, probably pussy struck and somewhat naive.

[mccw]

Rgs- I agree with you. I'd really recommend certain areas of UK or US market for most people if the 1 or 2 house is the limit. Certainly safer than putting everything you have in to some one else's name. But in some cases it could be ok; for example you already have alternative income and want to either hedge currency movements and / or make sure your family is taken care of inter generationally/ after your gone and beyond.

Even if it is all you have but know your wife longer/ better, maybe have kids together etc; every situation is different, no disrespect to the op, people can change and surprise; everything always has risks attached.

Personally I have a super stingy wife, haha, we've been married for almost 7 year and have two kids together. She has an excellent brain, knows the value of money; she has an even lower risk tolerance than me. When ever I come up with a scheme she loves to pick it to pieces risk by risk and talk "but what ifs", on every worst case scenario. We are a good team.

We have created a few good income producing rental properties in the UK. Moved back uk to do it. Bought a house 2 years ago in Brighton for 175k, I've spent 15, building an extension under pd rights, new laminate flooring upstairs, lick of paint and turned the double length living room in to 2 double bedrooms with a simple partition wall and knocking door through to kitchen. So I've turned a 3 bed house to a 5bed. Rents at £1850pm; high demand in good student area. So im not saying one can't get good returns in England with a bit of effort (prices have risen a lot though in some areas; example- that house to by now would be 225 or so asking price to start with; as it is now an agent wanted to put it on sale now at 275k) (can PM me for link if like to buy it any one- that's still a nice 8+% gross return)

Thinking to put my profits in to Thai to make some Bht in case the £ heads south again. Demographics, debt and continueing deficits make me nervous. Not jumping ship completely, but balancing a bit is no bad thing, also having safe cash income with out the mortgage debts risks hanging over will be nice in case of the worst.

Also; Tax wise if your higher rate payer in UK on property but non resident then moving some to another country can save you big. For example say you have 50grand income in UK taxed at 40% = 30k in pocket; but if you made that 50grand in USA, as starting a new tax brackets up from zero, your actual tax would be more like 15% ie on total across the brackets ; so in your pocket you have about 10grand extra per year! 40odd instead of 30. Same applies but differently to Thailand, depend how structuring it but can claim plenty expenses for your normal life, petrol etc, biz income tax rate and spread with the personal brackets to be least possible. UK once passed 40% bracket means almost anywhere is bound to be better tax rate because you are stating from scratch; accepting a slightly less % ROI might be balanced by the tax saving. You then gain currency hedge/ economy, political etc risk mitigation. Global perspective.

But

I bet the op and most don't pay any tax on this scale in Thailand.

[oogster8]

Man you guys are too SoFT. Im thinking the missus will have immigration take a look at hubbies paperwork the day his visa expires and have him deported!

Talk talk talk. What good is talking with OBAMA? He has his own agenda, same with this lovely wife...............lol.

Edited September 28, 2013 by oogster8

[yoshiwara]

You are really leaving yourself open to be flamed. Nobody in their right mind would take on loan repayments of 50,000 Baht per month with an income of 60,000.

Trying to pay off loans early involves penalties, so if you can get another loan, you are not likely to benefit even if the interest rate is lower.

Getting a loan to pay a loan is never a good idea anyway. Very irresponsible borrowing in the first place.

totster

To OP,

Then sit down with the family work out what you can really afford to spend, and learn to live within your means.

Cheers

Fletch

This really is a crucial step. Sitting down with your wife and working out how to deal with the matter without going into more debt.

Since disposable assets are in your wife's name this has to be done anyway.

You will discover also whether you have a partner going through life or something else.

[MobileContent]

I take it that there's nothing including property, land, cars in the OP's name; he simply foots the bills as the proverbial walking ATM. This is how many farangs, including myself at one stage, position themselves for a financial flogging because of 'love' etc. Reality raises its head normally only when it's too late.

Wife not wanting to help is a really serious bad sign: it seems this is not a marriage but a cash-cow one-way relationship. She should be the one, not the OP, seeking out loans; from her extended family, friends, banks, etc.

As was wisely advised the OP absolutely must stay well clear of so-called 'finance' companies and local area 'lenders' - all mafia, and all protected when it comes to putting the boots to those not paying up each month; and in the CMai area their rates are 10% per month.

The OP knows of course in his heart of hearts that it's over.

He's been raked over, picked clean, and brought to ruin no less by the person and persons he loves.

He should now plan for a 'silent' (telling no one including "wife") strategic withdrawal. He has to face the fact that his Thai (mis)adventure is over like so many before, currently, and after him. Put aside monies now to cover airfare home to an arranged temporary living situation with family or friends in the UK(?). Pray he doesn't have any medical issues in the meantime. Depart surreptitiously with a cover story he's off to a new bank manager who seems willing to help: hop on plane, have a much needed scotch and kiss it goodbye from the aircraft window.

Personal financial recovery will take time - but it will happen; but the lifting of the stress he's now under will be in large measure it's own reward. Possibly return sometime late in the future to see the wreck his 'spouse' either avoided or is immersed in.

Good luck OP - Like you, many of us are down the road taken, I'm sorry to say.

I couldn't have said it better.

Had once myself be in this kind of relationship. 1.8 million Baht burned within two months but luck it only happens once in 24 years and I finished it after 4 months. As they often say the first one is most of the time the wrong one. Now i have a stingy wife for almost 3 years and she just don't want me to spend anything.

For the OP, the money is gone. Besides two cars on a loan your Mrs. actually do well because you build her a 24 apartment block. She will find a way to complete it after you are gone. One car will be sold and you might left her a home and she might stay with her daughter so one car will be surely enough.

For the OP, wake up, you are not the first and not the last that burned all his money in the Land of Smile. If you would have done your homework and use some common sense this would have never happened.

[oogster8]

I just saw this, it may help op with his visa issues.

Thai Retirement Visa www.speedy-visa.com
No Savings? No Pension? Don't worry we guarantee to get your visa.

Front page ad on THAIVISA- must be legitimate.

[harrry]

I would not bet on it. It probably was one of those google ads....some of those definitely do not help Thai Visas reputation.

[NBD]

Can you rent your house out and live in one of the apartments? Sell or rent out at least one car. If feasible and profitable go home for a few months, get some work and get your finances in order.

Your fundamental problem is too many outgoings and not enough income and more debt will not solve this.

Sorry but it is that simple.

Unless you are the British government and believe you can borrow yourself rich.