UKBA Thai Criminal Convictions

[pj123]

I have a Thai friend who has been convicted under the copyright law for running pirated software on his company computers. I have no sympathy for him as he can can afford to pay for legit software. However I am rather concerned about his next UK visa application. I know he should disclose any conviction and that this type of conviction should not be a problem (I hope), but does the UKBA do a Thai criminal records checks on Thai applications for tourist visas?

Edited September 24, 2013 by pj123

[wooloomooloo]

Give false information and, if discovered, your friend's feet won't touch the ground.

Be honest and life will be less complicated in the long run. A refusal at least gives your friend scope for possible appeal, depending on what visa he applies for.

[pj123]

I have found an advice note from the Home Office dated 2009 that deals with this issue. Copy attached. If the offence committed would be liable for a maximum prison sentence of 12 months or more IN THE UK, then a visa or leave to enter the UK “should normally be refused”.

My understanding of a reading of the English Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988 is that the offence my friend committed would result in a maximum sentence of 3 months in the English courts.

The UKBA can also refuse a visa "on the ground that exclusion from the United Kingdom is conducive to the public good; if, for example, in the light of the character, conduct or associations of the person seeking leave to enter it is undesirable to give him leave to enter."

I don't believe they would use this argument for such a minor offence.

This advice note needs to be treated with caution as it is four years old.

However, for anyone who is disclosing a conviction with a maximum sentence of less than 12 months, I would think it advisable to get written advice from a UK solicitor confirming this and include this with their visa application.

UK Immigration & Crime.pdf

[7by7]

I cannot comment on the severity or otherwise of the sentence your friend would have received had he committed the same offence in the UK.

As far as future UK visa applications are concerned; the relevant part of the immigration rules is Para 320(2)( b )( c ) &(d)

320(2) the fact that the person seeking entry to the United Kingdom:

( b ) has been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to a period of imprisonment of at least 4 years; or

( c ) has been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to a period of imprisonment of at least 12 months but less than 4 years, unless a period of 10 years has passed since the end of the sentence; or

(d) has been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to a period of imprisonment of less than 12 months, unless a period of 5 years has passed since the end of the sentence.

See also RFL10 - When can I refuse on the grounds of criminality?

So, even if his sentence was less than 12 months, it seems from the above that he is unlikely to be granted a UK visa for at least the next 5 years.

That is if he received a custodial sentence. For a non custodial one the period is 12 months. See Para 320(18)(a) of the rules.

However, from reading your OP the impression is that your friend is considering not declaring this conviction in his application (apols to him if I have read it wrong).

That would be a big mistake.

Regardless of how minor the original offence, making a false declaration in a UK visa application is treated very seriously.

The penalty ranges from a ban from entering the UK as a visitor for up to 10 years to a ban from entering the UK in any capacity for life.

Edited to remove smileys and replace with ( b ) and ( c )!

Edited September 25, 2013 by 7by7

[Basil B]

I would have thought this would have been a civil matter and not a criminal one.

IE using pirated software as opposed to copying and distributing it.

Also would this be a criminal offence in the UK?

[Kevin1908]

I would have thought this would have been a civil matter and not a criminal one.

IE using pirated software as opposed to copying and distributing it.

Also would this be a criminal offence in the UK?

I must admit I was surprised when I read the post. Shock horror, a Thai person is using pirated s/w. When I bought the ex g/f a laptop in a large retailer in Panthip we were given the option of a legit installation or round the corner for a pirated installation. This is a large retailer. I can only assume this guy didn't offer a high enough bribe.

[Basil B]

AFAIK. Convicted does not mean he has been sent down.

I am no expert on Thai law but I am sure this would be a civil matter unless it was a major theft/fraud, as far as the software companies go all they want is money, they are unlikely to get anything if it went through the criminal courts other than publicity for the case and hope it scares other users of pirated software into upgrading to legit software.

Have there been any successful prosecutions of the guys at Tuk Com (apart from the BiB liberating their stock)?

[7by7]

Even though it is rife in the Kingdom, using pirated software is a criminal offence in Thailand; as it is in most countries.

This article is 5 years old, but does make it clear that raids take place, businesses are fined and there is even a 250,000 baht reward for reporting the use of illegal software to the Business Software Alliance.

See also Bid to reduce pirated software from The Nation in January 2013.

As said above, if the sentence imposed on the OP's friend was a fine, i.e. a non custodial sentence, then he would only be banned from the UK for 12 months.

Edited September 26, 2013 by 7by7

[Time Traveller]

Although it's not the UK, I know a case of a Thai citizen with a similiar conviction for a (single) copyright offense from many years ago and was granted a US immigrant (not tourist) visa after declaring this at the time of application. One off minor crimes are usually not a problem as long as they are disclosed and honest about it. But expect to be questioned in detail about the circumstances. Another note is that what it considered minor in one country does not necessarily mean it is minor in another country.

[Basil B]

I was about to say in the UK it is not an criminal offence but then I read this:

Criminal IP offences may be taking place in your workplace in a variety of ways. These include:

• employees selling copies of protected works or supplying fake goods within the working environment;
• company servers and equipment being used to make available (i.e. uploading) infringing content to the internet with the knowledge of management;
• using the work intranet to offer for sale infringing products to colleagues;
• external visitors entering your premises, to sell counterfeit and pirated items;
• using unlicensed software on business computer systems with the knowledge of management.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/ipenforce/ipenforce-crime/ipenforce-role/ipenforce-group/ipenforce-workplace/ipenforce-workplace-matters/ipenforce-workplace-matters-criminal.htm

Fine up to £50K and/or 10 years in clink...

As I understand it the ECO has to use their judgement on this and relate any offence and punishment as what would have been the punishment for a crime if it had happened in the UK.

What I am trying to say is would an ECO refuse entry because someone had been sentenced for committing adultery in a muslim country? remember Taksin seems to have no problem entering the UK when he wants.

[7by7]

RFL10.6 What if the offence occurred outside the UK?

Paragraph 6 of the Immigration Rules provides that a conviction means 'conviction for a criminal offence in the UK or any other country'. Offences do not need to have an identical named provision or carry similar penalties in the UK provided there is a comparable offence - for example, homicide and murder. Therefore where a check reveals that a person has a conviction outside of the UK, it should be treated as if the offence occurred in the UK. Similarly, where sentences received outside of the UK do not have an identical or similar provision, the ECO must find a domestic sentence which is the nearest equivalent. Offences which do not constitute a criminal offence in the UK - for example, homosexuality or proselytising, should be discounted.
(My emphasisi)