British national arrested in Nairobi mall attack

[transam]

these lot should of never have been given a british passport in the first place

Exactly.

[DagonKhan]

I think the key point 7x7 made is about the consular assistance itself. It's a complete waste of time. All they will do is make sure the local laws are followed, it's not as if anything they do is really that "helpful". As the spotlight is on the Kenyans, I should imagine that will happen anyway.

Sent from my GT-S7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[7by7]

these lot should of never have been given a british passport in the first place

Exactly.

No one here knows the circumstances of this man at the time of his naturalisation. However, when he was he was naturalised he must have met the same requirements as the Thai spouse and partners of members here who have been naturalised as British did; which could include a criminal record check.

If he is convicted of this, or any terrorist offence, then procedures are in place to remove his British citizenship

[Mossfinn]

The F.O has stated he is of no interest in regard to the Westgate atrocity, shall we still hang him guy's? Or shall we allude to further hyperbole, calumny, and outright hatred toward a B.C, unwarranted with the information we know at this time.

[Scott]

Some inflammatory, baiting and off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. Please stick to the topic and stick a little closer to the facts. Here's the rule that will be followed:

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[Steely Dan]

these lot should of never have been given a british passport in the first place

Exactly.

No one here knows the circumstances of this man at the time of his naturalisation. However, when he was he was naturalised he must have met the same requirements as the Thai spouse and partners of members here who have been naturalised as British did; which could include a criminal record check.

If he is convicted of this, or any terrorist offence, then procedures are in place to remove his British citizenship

Perhaps, after a ten year legal battle, with the European courts batting against us, whilst the hapless taxpayer picks up the tab.

[Scott]

I am going to let that one stand SteelyDan, but let's please stick to the topic. How on earth can you be talking about revoking someone's citizenship when they have not been found guilty of anything? (The question is rhetorical).

[boomerangutang]

If it happened in Thailand, and the dude was rich, he'd probably be in Singapore by now.

[transam]

these lot should of never have been given a british passport in the first place

Exactly.

No one here knows the circumstances of this man at the time of his naturalisation. However, when he was he was naturalised he must have met the same requirements as the Thai spouse and partners of members here who have been naturalised as British did; which could include a criminal record check.

If he is convicted of this, or any terrorist offence, then procedures are in place to remove his British citizenship

If King Kong was born in the UK he would be British. I just don't like reading headlines......''British guy does this, British guy does that''. Then I read the guys name, nothing to do with the UK, yet the world thinks it's me or my family.

[7by7]

Ever heard of a guy named Mohamed Farah?

A devout Muslim, born in Somalia, a British citizen.

You must have been really upset when you read the headlines "British athlete wins double gold at London Olympics."

Edited September 26, 2013 by 7by7

[bkk_mike]

these lot should of never have been given a british passport in the first place

Exactly.

No one here knows the circumstances of this man at the time of his naturalisation. However, when he was he was naturalised he must have met the same requirements as the Thai spouse and partners of members here who have been naturalised as British did; which could include a criminal record check.

If he is convicted of this, or any terrorist offence, then procedures are in place to remove his British citizenship

If King Kong was born in the UK he would be British. I just don't like reading headlines......''British guy does this, British guy does that''. Then I read the guys name, nothing to do with the UK, yet the world thinks it's me or my family.

You cannot assume in this day and age when you see someone's name if they're British or not.

Might I point out that a certain famous Thai singer (google Bird thongchai) was born Albert McIntyre.

As for Somalians - the country is the definition of a basket case. Any Somalians that got out and were able to make a go of things in another country, I have no ill will for. (But by make a go of things - I do mean the ones who work for a living.) You should also remember that part of modern-day Somalia was a British colony called Somaliland, so we're at least partly responsible for the mess that the country is in.

Edited September 26, 2013 by bkk_mike

[ableguy]

Well we know the former wife of one of the 7/7 bombers was there and killed in the operation. Not hard to believe she would have possibly helped recruit from the uk.

The religion of peace and love strikes again.

is this proven .?

[Tchooptip]

these lot should of never have been given a british passport in the first place

Exactly.

Unreservedly.

[Mossfinn]

Well we know the former wife of one of the 7/7 bombers was there and killed in the operation. Not hard to believe she would have possibly helped recruit from the uk.

The religion of peace and love strikes again.

is this proven .?

Nope. She is still on the run because of a dodgy passport, with the information known to us right, she had nothing to do with the atrocity, let alone be killed there.

[MAJIC]

these lot should of never have been given a british passport in the first place

Exactly.

No one here knows the circumstances of this man at the time of his naturalisation. However, when he was he was naturalised he must have met the same requirements as the Thai spouse and partners of members here who have been naturalised as British did; which could include a criminal record check.

If he is convicted of this, or any terrorist offence, then procedures are in place to remove his British citizenship

And should he be charged and/or convicted of any terrorist offence,he will no doubt have some difficulties answering the the following questions from Page 10 of the British Citizenship Application form AN. of course no charges have been made,up to now!

www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/form_an.pdf

Edited September 26, 2013 by MAJIC

[folium]

these lot should of never have been given a british passport in the first place

Exactly.

No one here knows the circumstances of this man at the time of his naturalisation. However, when he was he was naturalised he must have met the same requirements as the Thai spouse and partners of members here who have been naturalised as British did; which could include a criminal record check.

If he is convicted of this, or any terrorist offence, then procedures are in place to remove his British citizenship

If King Kong was born in the UK he would be British. I just don't like reading headlines......''British guy does this, British guy does that''. Then I read the guys name, nothing to do with the UK, yet the world thinks it's me or my family.

Nice line but sadly not correct.

Unlike the USA where being born on US soil automatically confers on the child US citizenship, the situation re the UK is far more nuanced, see below:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/eligibility/children/britishcitizen/borninuk/

*then I read the guys (sic) name, nothing to do with the UK".....blah,blah Sounds like you are the type of person who thought that Laurie Cunningham should not have worn an England shirt as he looked a "little different".

Gosh looking different, name sounding different it's all so scary....

[Mossfinn]

Be careful Folly, we might agree with each other. However do you know why the rules were changed in the UK regarding automatic citizenship to those born here?

[MAJIC]

"A Foreign Office spokesman declined to comment on the report, saying only that the British authorities were aware of the arrest of a Briton in the Kenyan capital and stood ready to provide consular assistance."

So consular assistance is forthcoming for those that have committed extreme misconduct in foreign countries,which has brought the UK into disrepute,but not to get ordinary British Citizens back home,who have fell on hard times,safely. And this man is far from a ordinary British Citizen!

Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_09_25/British-national-arrested-in-Nairobi-mall-attack-9544/

"but not to get ordinary British Citizens back home, who have fell on hard times, safely.". "And this man is far from a ordinary British Citizen!".

Along with other quotes in this thread are spanking of racism. He is a British passport holder...that is all you should be reacting to....he is allowed no more, no less of the services from the British Consulate than you or me or anyone carrying a British passport.

So explain to me how he is not an ordinary British passport holder......What is an ordinary British Passport holder.......

Just wait and see what this Guy is charged with.I'm not biting,so have a Troll somewhere else!

[MAJIC]

"A Foreign Office spokesman declined to comment on the report, saying only that the British authorities were aware of the arrest of a Briton in the Kenyan capital and stood ready to provide consular assistance."

So consular assistance is forthcoming for those that have committed extreme misconduct in foreign countries,which has brought the UK into disrepute,but not to get ordinary British Citizens back home,who have fell on hard times,safely. And this man is far from a ordinary British Citizen!

Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_09_25/British-national-arrested-in-Nairobi-mall-attack-9544/

"but not to get ordinary British Citizens back home, who have fell on hard times, safely.". "And this man is far from a ordinary British Citizen!".

Along with other quotes in this thread are spanking of racism. He is a British passport holder...that is all you should be reacting to....he is allowed no more, no less of the services from the British Consulate than you or me or anyone carrying a British passport.

So explain to me how he is not an ordinary British passport holder......What is an ordinary British Passport holder.......

Lets wait and see what he is charged with!

[Mossfinn]

Magic, it is a misspell, he means speaking

[7by7]

these lot should of never have been given a british passport in the first place

Exactly.

No one here knows the circumstances of this man at the time of his naturalisation. However, when he was he was naturalised he must have met the same requirements as the Thai spouse and partners of members here who have been naturalised as British did; which could include a criminal record check.

If he is convicted of this, or any terrorist offence, then procedures are in place to remove his British citizenship

And should he be charged and/or convicted of any terrorist offence,he will no doubt have some difficulties answering the the following questions from Page 10 of the British Citizenship Application form AN. of course no charges have been made,up to now!

www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/form_an.pdf

As he is already a naturalised British citizen he wont have to answer that question again as he wont be applying for naturalisation again!

From SKY news: "The British High Commission in Kenya confirmed they were offering the suspect consular assistance but did not believe he was a key player in the mall attack."

[7by7]

Be careful Folly, we might agree with each other. However do you know why the rules were changed in the UK regarding automatic citizenship to those born here?

Anyone born in the UK before 1 January 1983 is a British citizen; unless their parents were diplomats with diplomatic immunity.

There are some variations with regards to the dates of the change with regard to the children of EEA and Swiss nationals, but basically anyone born in the UK from 1 January 1983 is only automatically British if at least one of their parents is British or legally settled in the UK; i.e. holds Indefinite Leave to Remain or the equivalent.

See If you were born in the UK or a qualifying territory for the full details.

Why the change? I don't know for sure, but at a guess to stop pregnant women visiting the UK to give birth so that their child could be British and to stop the children of those in the UK temporarily, e.g. students, or illegally being automatically British.

None of which is really relevant to this topic as the man in question is British by naturalisation, not birth.

[folium]

Be careful Folly, we might agree with each other. However do you know why the rules were changed in the UK regarding automatic citizenship to those born here?

Pray enlighten us, Mossy.....

[MAJIC]

@ 7by7 Reply to Post No 51

7by7 we are speculating here,of course he won't be applying for British Citizenship again,(a bit of a gloat eh!) and if it turns out he is mixed up in Terrorism,(whoever small,who would want him to?

I suspect that even if he is cleared of any misdemeanours he will be under suspicion for a very long time! and don't forget,for acts of Terrorism the Naturalised British Citizens can still lose their Citizenship,for acts of Treason.And also if the original application was falsified,i.e lies on the application form, it can be revoked!

[7by7]

"a bit of a gloat, eh" <deleted> does that mean? Simply pointing out your error.

Yes, any naturalised British citizen who is convicted of an offence such as terrorism can be stripped of their British citizenship; I said so much earlier in this topic and also a long time ago in British Citizenship Basics!

•ILR can be removed and the holder deported from the UK if they are convicted of any criminal offence which results in imprisonment. A naturalised British citizen can have their citizenship removed, but only if it is deemed to be in the public interest. That basically means being convicted of an extremely serious offence such as terrorism. Even then it would not be removed if the person would be made stateless by doing so. Obviously both ILR and citizenship can be removed if either were obtained by fraud or deception.

But at present this man has not even been charged with, let alone convicted of, anything.

There is also no evidence that I know of to indicate that he may have used deception in his naturalisation application.

You are speculating to feed your and others irrational prejudices.

[transam]

"a bit of a gloat, eh" <deleted> does that mean? Simply pointing out your error.

Yes, any naturalised British citizen who is convicted of an offence such as terrorism can be stripped of their British citizenship; I said so much earlier in this topic and also a long time ago in British Citizenship Basics!

•ILR can be removed and the holder deported from the UK if they are convicted of any criminal offence which results in imprisonment. A naturalised British citizen can have their citizenship removed, but only if it is deemed to be in the public interest. That basically means being convicted of an extremely serious offence such as terrorism. Even then it would not be removed if the person would be made stateless by doing so. Obviously both ILR and citizenship can be removed if either were obtained by fraud or deception.

But at present this man has not even been charged with, let alone convicted of, anything.

There is also no evidence that I know of to indicate that he may have used deception in his naturalisation application.

You are speculating to feed your and others irrational prejudices.

As you are an expert on this stuff perhaps you can enlighten me.

Abu Hanza ( sorry about the spelling) was born in the UK, his parents were not, but is now in the USA on Terrorism charges. His extended family are now being taken care of by the tax payer. I believe in a vast house.

What are your thoughts about that.?

[7by7]

What relevance that has to this topic, only you know. But I will answer.

I have no idea whether or not Abu Hamza's family are being 'taken care of by the tax payer' in any sized house.

Perhaps you can provide the evidence to back up this claim.

I am sure that any state benefits they may be receiving are ones to which they are entitled; unless you are suggesting benefit fraud of some kind.

Whether his family are receiving any state benefits or not; it is Abu Hamza who is facing terrorism charges in the US; not his family. It is Abu Hamza who is serving time in a US gaol awaiting trial; not his family.

Are you seriously suggesting that a criminal's family should face the same punishment as the criminal?

If so, do you apply that to all criminals, or only Muslim ones?

BTW, he was born in Egypt, not the UK, and was naturalised as British as the spouse of a British citizen. We all know that facts aren't your strong point; but even you should be able to get basic, easily found ones like that right!

Edited September 27, 2013 by 7by7

[transam]

What relevance that has to this topic, only you know. But I will answer.

I have no idea whether or not Abu Hamza's family are being 'taken care of by the tax payer' in any sized house.

Perhaps you can provide the evidence to back up this claim.

I am sure that any state benefits they may be receiving are ones to which they are entitled; unless you are suggesting benefit fraud of some kind.

Whether his family are receiving any state benefits or not; it is Abu Hamza who is facing terrorism charges in the US; not his family. It is Abu Hamza who is serving time in a US gaol awaiting trial; not his family.

Are you seriously suggesting that a criminal's family should face the same punishment as the criminal?

If so, do you apply that to all criminals, or only Muslim ones?

BTW, he was born in Egypt, not the UK, and was naturalised as British as the spouse of a British citizen. We all know that facts aren't your strong point; but even you should be able to get basic, easily found ones like that right!

TRY reading some UK news some time. I do.

If he was born in Egypt that is great for my position on stuff. Will update myself tomorrow.

[7by7]

What news; links, please.

I see you've avoided the awkward questions; again.

We all know your position on 'stuff.' That is all Muslims are plotting to overthrow western democracy, kill all those who wont convert and subject the rest to medieval laws and punishments.

We've heard your ignorant rants before; don't bother repeating them.

[transam]

What news; links, please.

I see you've avoided the awkward questions; again.

We all know your position on 'stuff.' That is all Muslims are plotting to overthrow western democracy, kill all those who wont convert and subject the rest to medieval laws and punishments.

We've heard your ignorant rants before; don't bother repeating them.

Who is your ''We'' .

Death and destruction of the innocent in our time is being caused by one group around our planet. YES or NO. ?

Sorry forgot, your answer will be yes, so please tell ''us'' what group it is.........

Edited September 27, 2013 by transam