new front tire or new set?

[KRS1]

My front tire is getting bald and starting to feel the negative effects of it now.

Cant decide whether to get a new front Pirelli Rosso 2 for 3400 baht, or just get a new set of (front & rear) IRC IZ-003 racing tires for 5000 baht.

The back has about 50% left and is a Pirelli.

btw, when the front Rosso 2 starts to get bald it starts to resist turning...not good !

What would you do?

[galoubet]

Your front and rear tyres will never wear out at the same rate especially if you like accelerating hard so I'd stick with the tyres you prefer (if those are the Pirellis). Replace the front tyre now, the rear when it wears out and both tyres should be near their end at the same time when you can choose to replace them together with whichever brand you prefer.

I run Bridgestone 021 tyres on my BMW R1150R roadster in the UK and they wear out pretty quick but grip very well especially when leant over. On my R1200C cruiser in Thailand I have Michelin Commanders that have a very long life and grip surprisingly well. The Michelins are pretty hopeless in the wet (but I rarely venture onto wet roads). The Bridgestones are good wet tyres. Never tried Pirellis.

Edited September 28, 2013 by galoubet

[KRS1]

Your front and rear tyres will never wear out at the same rate especially if you like accelerating hard so I'd stick with the tyres you prefer (if those are the Pirellis). Replace the front tyre now, the rear when it wears out and both tyres should be near their end at the same time when you can choose to replace them together with whichever brand you prefer.

I run Bridgestone 021 tyres on my BMW R1150R roadster in the UK and they wear out pretty quick but grip very well especially when leant over. On my R1200C cruiser in Thailand I have Michelin Commanders that have a very long life and grip surprisingly well. The Michelins are pretty hopeless in the wet (but I rarely venture onto wet roads). The Bridgestones are good wet tyres. Never tried Pirellis.

Im having a hard time deciding because i want to try those IRC IZ-003 racing tires....lol...and the price difference is pretty substantial.

decisions decisions...i read up on them and they sound pretty interesting. They have kevlar in them to control heat and sidewall support, and for the cost of 3 pair in the future i could only get 2 pair of Pirellis.

I tried them on a friends bike and they handled differently in the curves, very fast in corners...i think, but not sure...that this was do to the extra support in the sidewalls. I run the Pirelli Rosso 2 at their limit now and get them to skip fairly often.

But i like the Pirellis because they are a very neutral tire....the IZ-003 as soon as you lean a little, they want to goooo.

[monty1412]

I wouldnt go for IRC tyres full stop.. stay with Pirelli front and use up your rear and then look at complete set change on next change... lots of good comments re new Angel GT's

[Gsxrnz]

Tyres are very much a personal choice. If you replace your front with the Pirelli now, then the front/rear should be near their life at the same time.

As for the ultimate replacement, really up to you what you're comfortable with. If you're pushing a tyre beyond it's design capabilities, or your riding style doesn't suit them, you have to consider changing. For me the BT016 was the ultimate tyre on my GSXR1 on the road and the track. I seemed to get the tyre pressure combinations right, I trusted them, I could feel them, they gave good feedback and were really forgiving.

Arguably they were not the best tyre for the kind of riding I was doing, and let's forget about the technical specs for a minute, I just fell in love with them. The more I pushed them the more I trusted them and my Gixer seemed to like them as well. I suspect that tyres, as with bikes themselves, grow on you and you grow into them.

The first time I used them was on a track day. I'm super cautious on brand new tyres so used the practice laps to wear them in. I found that after only four laps they were behaving very respectably after cautious riding. An old aggressor was in front of me in the 2nd lap of the actual race and my brain went into "fark you" mode and I chased him down and passed him, forgetting the new tyres. It wasn't until after the race he asked me what I'd done to the bike since last week as there were corners he knew he could usually outride me, but not that day. I could only put it down to the tyres.

The point is, you don't need the ultimate tyre to ride well, you just need to find the tyres that give you the confidence to ride them to like they were designed to be ridden.

[KRS1]

I wouldnt go for IRC tyres full stop.. stay with Pirelli front and use up your rear and then look at complete set change on next change... lots of good comments re new Angel GT's

The IZ-003 are a new breed of tire developed in collaboration with Japanese and Thai research. Many people run them for track use.

I think it was newf on this forum that suggested them.

[seedy]

I usually go thru 2 rears to one front.

Agree with post above - tire choice very personal. If you have confidence in them, you can go more quickly.

As I age I find that a more forgiving tire suits me well. My Ricky Racer days are behind me - unless I can get another track bike. Then ...

[KRS1]

Tyres are very much a personal choice. If you replace your front with the Pirelli now, then the front/rear should be near their life at the same time.

As for the ultimate replacement, really up to you what you're comfortable with. If you're pushing a tyre beyond it's design capabilities, or your riding style doesn't suit them, you have to consider changing. For me the BT016 was the ultimate tyre on my GSXR1 on the road and the track. I seemed to get the tyre pressure combinations right, I trusted them, I could feel them, they gave good feedback and were really forgiving.

Arguably they were not the best tyre for the kind of riding I was doing, and let's forget about the technical specs for a minute, I just fell in love with them. The more I pushed them the more I trusted them and my Gixer seemed to like them as well. I suspect that tyres, as with bikes themselves, grow on you and you grow into them.

The first time I used them was on a track day. I'm super cautious on brand new tyres so used the practice laps to wear them in. I found that after only four laps they were behaving very respectably after cautious riding. An old aggressor was in front of me in the 2nd lap of the actual race and my brain went into "fark you" mode and I chased him down and passed him, forgetting the new tyres. It wasn't until after the race he asked me what I'd done to the bike since last week as there were corners he knew he could usually outride me, but not that day. I could only put it down to the tyres.

The point is, you don't need the ultimate tyre to ride well, you just need to find the tyres that give you the confidence to ride them to like they were designed to be ridden.

I know 'fark you' mode very well...lol

The Rosso 2 were good, but i think ive outgrown them now.

But even when they skip it doesnt freak me out, because i know they will rebite

Before anyone mentions it, its not the air pressure...i only run high psi when doing top speed runs....at 40 psi, the rosso 2 will equalize to 32 front 34 rear by themselves within the week.

[Gsxrnz]

Suspension settings and tyre pressures - the two Black Sciences of motorcycle racing.

[KRS1]

you aint kidding, my fork springs are starting to go now too.

[ll2]

ircs are for track and it might take longer to warm them up for normal use.

i say get one front pirelli rosso and wait for the rear and change them both again later.

[Gsxrnz]

you aint kidding, my fork springs are starting to go now too.

I'd say before you start getting too involved in evaluating tyre performance, might pay to get the springs looked at. Better suspension will let your tyres perform properly.

Less than optimum springs will give you a totally different feel and performance with whatever tyres you go for. I don't mean the ride, but serious braking and cornering performance can be majorly affected. In fact, give me a dodgy tyre on good suspension, or a good tyre on dodgy suspension, I'll take the dodgy tyre combo any day.

The pre-load and sag can't be trusted, and the compression and rebound won't be able to perform satisfactorily if the springs are dodgy. Nothing worse than heavy braking over a bumpy surface and the compression and rebound are fighting each other because the spring can't respond fast enough.

It's also a recipe for a tank-slapper if you're accelerating with WOT and the front ends a bit on the light side. If the front tyre comes slightly off the ground or just becomes light and hits rough surface on getting firm contact...........can you say, ejector seat!!

It's a bit like riding one of these.

As an afterthought, you may want to clean the rivet spacings on your discs as well. These get clogged with brake and general dust and lose the ability to float freely, often leading to the impression that the tyre pressures or suspension need looking into or even major shudder. If the discs cannot float, feedback is very confusing. I just use a degreasing spray and an appropriate sized shaft inserted into the rivets to move them around. If they can turn, they're generally free and will float. Take off your callipers and tie them out of the way, don't want degreaser on your pads!

I know a bloke that sold a perfectly good bike because it apparently had warped discs and he had major shudder under braking. He didn't want to shell out for new discs. All it wanted was the rivets clearing so the discs could float - I gave them a thorough clean after I bought it.

[KRS1]

ircs are for track and it might take longer to warm them up for normal use.

i say get one front pirelli rosso and wait for the rear and change them both again later.

I have literally 1.5 mm left on the rear before it hits the indicators, sorry should have been more detailed in first post.

the IZ-003 are very soft cold, i think the kevlar may be there to keep temps down.

[ll2]

^

just change them both then if it is only 1.5 mm left at rear so you wont go to the tire shop again 1000 km later.

[monty1412]

what bike are you riding KRS1 ?

[T_Dog]

KRS1.. Do both... What tire shop are you using these days by the way?

Edited September 29, 2013 by T_Dog

[KRS1]

what bike are you riding KRS1 ?

In Thailand a CBR 250.

[KRS1]

KRS1.. Do both... What tire shop are you using these days by the way?

I got the Pirelli Rosso 2 at CNX Kawasaki...and someone told me the IZ-003 are available at Sangchai Honda. (not sure have to check) I got them at Saa Ducati for friends last time at a bit of a mark up.

I get tires installed at the tire shop in front of Siam TV, best shop in town for tire mounting 120 baht per wheel, keep an eye on how they jack it up though.

For Michelins in the past i got them at the chang puak, ratchapat uni intersection, chain lube there is 80 baht a can also.

I would not choose Michelin Pilot Sportys again. Although there appears to be lots of tread left, they start to lose grip after 4k kilometers

Edited September 29, 2013 by KRS1

[KRS1]

you aint kidding, my fork springs are starting to go now too.

I'd say before you start getting too involved in evaluating tyre performance, might pay to get the springs looked at. Better suspension will let your tyres perform properly.

Less than optimum springs will give you a totally different feel and performance with whatever tyres you go for. I don't mean the ride, but serious braking and cornering performance can be majorly affected. In fact, give me a dodgy tyre on good suspension, or a good tyre on dodgy suspension, I'll take the dodgy tyre combo any day.

The pre-load and sag can't be trusted, and the compression and rebound won't be able to perform satisfactorily if the springs are dodgy. Nothing worse than heavy braking over a bumpy surface and the compression and rebound are fighting each other because the spring can't respond fast enough.

It's also a recipe for a tank-slapper if you're accelerating with WOT and the front ends a bit on the light side. If the front tyre comes slightly off the ground or just becomes light and hits rough surface on getting firm contact...........can you say, ejector seat!!

It's a bit like riding one of these.

Pogo-Stick.jpg

As an afterthought, you may want to clean the rivet spacings on your discs as well. These get clogged with brake and general dust and lose the ability to float freely, often leading to the impression that the tyre pressures or suspension need looking into or even major shudder. If the discs cannot float, feedback is very confusing. I just use a degreasing spray and an appropriate sized shaft inserted into the rivets to move them around. If they can turn, they're generally free and will float. Take off your callipers and tie them out of the way, don't want degreaser on your pads!

I know a bloke that sold a perfectly good bike because it apparently had warped discs and he had major shudder under braking. He didn't want to shell out for new discs. All it wanted was the rivets clearing so the discs could float - I gave them a thorough clean after I bought it.

I never realized that about the free floating rivets. I dont have any brake problems, but i'll take a look at them too though.

warped front rotors suck, bad part is that you cant tell by just looking at them !

[William Osborne]

. I run the Pirelli Rosso 2 at their limit now and get them to skip fairly often.

This more likely due to lack of slipper clutch and you not blipping the throttle on downshifts and nothing to do with tires....plus you got a single cylinder lump under you ?

On a CBR 250, with the Rosso or the Michelin Sports, I would say you would be hard pressed to find the limit on fast road riding, as these are designed for bikes with way more cc/bhp for fast road/ occasional track use....

end of the day, even the stickiest race tires won't disguise the input of a ham-fisted rider.

[KRS1]

. I run the Pirelli Rosso 2 at their limit now and get them to skip fairly often.

This more likely due to lack of slipper clutch and you not blipping the throttle on downshifts and nothing to do with tires....plus you got a single cylinder lump under you ?

On a CBR 250, with the Rosso or the Michelin Sports, I would say you would be hard pressed to find the limit on fast road riding, as these are designed for bikes with way more cc/bhp for fast road/ occasional track use....

end of the day, even the stickiest race tires won't disguise the input of a ham-fisted rider.

ehhh...another troll comment, dont you have a bridge to collect toll at?

They arent even ZR rated, they are H & W rated...so your comment about them being designed for bikes with more HP and CC are strictly coming out of your ass as always...

The dual compound is only applied to the rear tire. http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/motorcycle/sheet/diablo_rosso_2.tab?tab=10

Go modifiy your Honda Dream bitch.

http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/pirelli-diablo-rosso-ii-rear-tires

Edited September 29, 2013 by KRS1

[William Osborne]

The Rosso 2 has a 70/30 road/track bias and would have same compound for Superbikes as CBR250.

As said,whatever 'skipping' is going on is due to other factors....plus, why do you say you increase pressure to 40 psi for fast runs... you should be dropping pressure to about 29/31 psi for fast riding

interested to know, where to they skip ? on corner entry or exit ?... is a series of skip/grip/skip/grip or a small slide ?

..

[KRS1]

The Rosso 2 has a 70/30 road/track bias and would have same compound for Superbikes as CBR250.

As said,whatever 'skipping' is going on is due to other factors....plus, why do you say you increase pressure to 40 psi for fast runs... you should be dropping pressure to about 29/31 psi for fast riding

interested to know, where to they skip ? on corner entry or exit ?... is a series of skip/grip/skip/grip or a small slide ?

..

its 75/25 compound, and the bi compound is only applied to the rear tire http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/motorcycle/sheet/diablo_rosso_2.tab?tab=10

click > 'technical data' > 'compound'

H speed rated, scroll down to product details, the 110 and 140 are not the same as the other sizes

http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/pirelli-diablo-rosso-ii-rear-tires

40 psi for straight lines to speed test only.... 29 /31 psi is for amateurs and handle sloppy at 29 psi....if you had a pair and ride fast youd know, they equalize at 32/34 after a week, so im actually riding at that psi normally....once again if you had a pair and checked it - youd know.

[William Osborne]

40 psi for straight lines to speed test only.... 29 /31 psi is for amateurs and handle sloppy at 29 psi....if you had a pair and ride fast youd know, they equalize at 32/34 after a week, so im actually riding at that psi normally....once again if you had a pair and checked it - youd know.

i guess that is why all the amateur racers run thereabout pressures ... the faster guys even run lower pressures

..can't believe you are quoting tire pressures after a week ??,,,you should be checking pressures cold and then check again after a hard ride..should be about 34 psi when up to temp but God knows what your pressures are if you start at 40 psi

Anyway, still interested where you are finding he limits of the Rosso , coming into the corner or exit ??

[Richard-BKK]

Many people under-estimate the importance of motorcycle tires, personally I would not mix the Pirelli Rosso with any other tire.

Most tire manufactures tell us to replace front and back at the same time, but I have good experience with 2 front tire in the lifetime of one rear tire (I always use the same tire). It's only becomes difficult if the rear tire really comes near replacement...

I hear good things about the IRC IZ-003, but to say it's a serious replacement for the Pirelli Rosso2 is pretty big step for me... Maybe you need to checkout the Continental ContiSport Attack 2, pretty good tires (it's the stock tire for the BMW S1000RR and HP4)... and cost less than the Pirelli (still I would not mix it with the Rosso 2...

Edited October 1, 2013 by Richard-BKK

[KRS1]

40 psi for straight lines to speed test only.... 29 /31 psi is for amateurs and handle sloppy at 29 psi....if you had a pair and ride fast youd know, they equalize at 32/34 after a week, so im actually riding at that psi normally....once again if you had a pair and checked it - youd know.

i guess that is why all the amateur racers run thereabout pressures ... the faster guys even run lower pressures

..can't believe you are quoting tire pressures after a week ??,,,you should be checking pressures cold and then check again after a hard ride..should be about 34 psi when up to temp but God knows what your pressures are if you start at 40 psi

Anyway, still interested where you are finding he limits of the Rosso , coming into the corner or exit ??

you want to know where the rosso 2 are slipping, go buy a pair and ride them hard, comments from people who do not ride them hard or even own them are worthless.

Do you really think all the professional riders set their tires at 29 psi? No...they experiment what psi is fastest for their riding style, trial and error in tuning just like anything else.

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/tires/146_0206_motorcycle_tire_pressure/

Edited October 1, 2013 by KRS1

[KRS1]

Many people under-estimate the importance of motorcycle tires, personally I would not mix the Pirelli Rosso with any other tire.

Most tire manufactures tell us to replace front and back at the same time, but I have good experience with 2 front tire in the lifetime of one rear tire (I always use the same tire). It's only becomes difficult if the rear tire really comes near replacement...

I hear good things about the IRC IZ-003, but to say it's a serious replacement for the Pirelli Rosso2 is pretty big step for me... Maybe you need to checkout the Continental ContiSport Attack 2, pretty good tires (it's the stock tire for the BMW S1000RR and HP4)... and cost less than the Pirelli (still I would not mix it with the Rosso 2...

I never said i was going to mix !

[ll2]

man, changed my dunlop d222s to pirelli rosso2s yesterday and such great tires those pirellis. glued to the road now ans safer on wet. reviews are true!

[KRS1]

man, changed my dunlop d222s to pirelli rosso2s yesterday and such great tires those pirellis. glued to the road now ans safer on wet. reviews are true!

yes they are good tires, no real complaints for everyday semi aggressive riding.

but im looking for something better to get a little more aggressive.

[ll2]

^ then supercorsas will fit you well krs but you need to warm them up a lot before anything aggressive.