Verizon (USA) phone in GSM Country (Thailand)?

[dingodingo]

Verizon tells me that their 4G LTE phones work in GSM countries (like Thailand) with a Thai SIM. They said that I can get the phone unlocked by Verizon and pop in a True Move SIM card and the phone will work. From my knowledge this isn't true - that Verizon is CDMA and Thailand is GSM so it won't work. Yes, Verizon 4G LTE phones have a SIM card, but I thought that was only for the 4G LTE.

I spoke with a rep in the Verizon store and then called Verizon customer service and asked. I was very specific about using a Thailand GSM SIM card and and asking if I would be able to make calls, and have both 2G and 3G, and the answer was YES!

Before I spend a buttload on a Verizon phone, I want to know that someone has done this because it's contrary to what I know in my head.

Anyone have experience putting a Thai SIM card in their Verizon 4G LTE phone?

[Langsuan Man]

Verizon doesn't make phones, they only sell phones (or give away phones with a contract) Tell us the make and model of the phone you have and then someone may be able to answer your question

[Shurup]

Are you coming to Thai for vacation or do you live here? IF you live here, why not buy phone here?

[lomatopo]

Yes, need to know the exact make/model. And more about your plans, tourist? staying longer?

Some Verizon models can/do support SIM/GSM/3G. Assuming they give you an unlock code it might work.

You may be able to "roam" as well, but again that is make/model dependent, and may prove to be cost prohibitive?

You may be better off asking in a U.S.-centric travel forum?

https://community.verizonwireless.com/thread/804262

Any phone would need to be capable of accepting a SIM (e.g.: SGS4, Moto X), be able to be unlocked by Verizon (customer in good standing for some period of time - 6 months?), support GSM 900/1800, and 3G/850-900-2100, the latter if 3G data is required.

Edited October 6, 2013 by lomatopo

[georgehale]

Not all Verizon phones will work in a GSM system because some phone are built for CDMA only. Verizon does have some models that are built for both CDMA and GSM which they refer to as world phones. You just have to be sure that you are purchasing one of these dual system phones. If you have one of these phones and you inform Verizon that you want service for a period of time while you are in Thailand, they can activate it for accepting and making calls on a roaming basis. The problem is that the roaming fees are $1.98/ minute but you get to keep your US phone number.

[dingodingo]

Sorry for the delayed response. Please don't take my lack of immediate response as non-appreciation. I sinerely appreciate the help. Thank you!!!

To answer some of your questions...

Phone Make/Model

I'm buying the Samsung Note 3, but this phone has many variants (N9000, N9005 LTE version, N900T T-Mobile, and more)

Why buy in America?

I'm currently moving back and forth between the USA and Thailand. If I buy a phone here, it's 1) cheaper by a few bucks and 2) has 4G that works in the US where it's quite available.

Why Verizon?

The coverage for Verizon (a CDMA Carrier) is much better in the states than AT&T and T-Mobile (the GSM Carriers)

Verizon "WORLD" phones

I know Verizon sells or used to sell phones that were CDMA and GSM - specifically for people on world travel - this is not what I'm talking about.

What Verizon tells me

Verizon says that ANY of their 4G LTE phones will work in GSM countries with a local SIM. In other words, Verizon says that I will be able to put a Thai SIM into my Verizon Samsung Note 3 and it will work in Thailand.

My Doubt

This is contradictory to what I'd previously thought about CDMA vs. GSM carriers - and I have doubts about spending $700 on a phone that won't work well in Thailand. I imagine it might work like they say, but maybe will only be a 2G phone or something (I'm clear it won't be a 4G phone).

So I'm inclined to

I'm in clined to buy a T-Mobile Samsung Note 3 and then use it in Thailand. The only drawback to this is crappier coverage in the states, which can be frustrating. The T-Mobile phone will work on my True Move-H account and get 3G speeds and maybe even 4G speeds when they roll out to Chiang Mai (where I live). I think, but am not sure, that True and T-Mobile use the same 4G frequency.

But I'd like to know

If anyone has experience with a Verizon 4G LTE phone working with a Thai SIM card I would love to know about it, as that would mean I'd go with the Verizon Note 3 instead of the T-Mobile Note 3

Hopefully I've been a little more clear this time and I really do appreciate your help.

THANKS!!!

Edited October 20, 2013 by dingodingo

[NanLaew]

For use in the US, you should 'buy' whatever Verizon handset gives the best Verizon 4G service for the price. Newest and most expensive does not equate with best and most cost efficient.

For use in Thailand: Buy a dual SIM handset here*, using the same criteria, ie. which one gives the best coverage with your selected Thai carrier. The Verizon SIM is in the 2nd slot. As you mentioned, enable global roaming (voice) only for your trips to Thailand.

Most new handsets from a US carrier are usually linked with new minimum yearly contracts so I don't see where they are necessarily cheaper in the US, especially when they STILL lock the handsets.

* or you can google up myworldphone, a NYC-based company that sells unlocked handsets.

[lomatopo]

Personally I would buy the N9000 variant and use it with AT&T or T-Mo in the U.S.A., either directly or via one of their many, many, many MVNOs, and with any of the service providers here in Thailand. But this would be highly dependent on exact locations. I use T-Mo directly, via their $3/day plan during my short but frequent trips to the U.S. I get 3G on their re-farmed 1900 MHz network (from AT&T) in L.A., S.F., Chicago, NYC, Wash DC. Boston.

I can't see how you can avail yourself of Verizon's 4G/LTE network in the U.S. without purchasing their variant (Developer's Edition: SM-900V, $699), and subscribing to some sort of "month-to-month contract?

T-Mobile uses 1900 MHz/3G, and 1700/2100 MHz (AWS) for both/either 3G and 4G.

TrueMove H uses 850 MHz for 3G via CAT, 2100 MHz for 3G via RealMove and 2100 MHz 4G/LTE in some locales.

The N9005 N3 variant might "future-proof" you for 4G/LTE here in Thailand, but that's probably a stretch given the obstacles currently in place.

4G/LTE actually is more of a benefit for the service provider than the end-user; 3G should be more than adequate for all mobile data requirements for the next ~ 4 years.

I'd still need more details re: your requirements, time spent in various countries and even exact location(s) in the U.S. before refining any recommendations. A Google Nexus 5 might end up being a better, more cost-effective solution?

[Shurup]

If you're in the States now, you can slip your Thai SIM in and test it with any phone you want (assuming you have credit on it), then go from there..

I'm not so sure you can get a phone cheaper in the states, yes you can get a discount if you sign a contract, but then you'd end up paying for your monthly plan, which will be a waste of money if you're part time here and part time there. No service provider will sell you a phone for a loss, they will make money one way or the other.

Plus the phone will be locked and you may end up paying to get it unlocked.

[brucegoniners]

As an update to this thread, I purchased the latest, greatest, LG G3 from Verizon Wireless, the "coolest phone in the world". Guess what? While my iPhone 5 from Verizon works both on CDMA and GSM here on all frequencies (including 4g LTE), my latest greatest G3 does not.

Not I'm in the position where I'm going to attempt to return the G3 when I go back to the states at the end of the month, beyond the 30 day return period.

Assuming they take it back, does anybody have experience as to what devices PURCHASED IN THE USA FROM VERIZON WIRELESS besides the iPhone, work here on 4G LTE?

It doesn't matter if it was purchased here or anywhere else. I need answers about phones purchased from Verizon.

I even went to LG and they told me the U.S. builds won't work on 4g here.

FRUSTRATING!!!

[Langsuan Man]

Did you insist that the phone Verizon sold you is unlocked? I doubt it since most carriers in the US will not unlock phones voluntarily

The US Congress recently had to pass a law to legally allow a phone to be unlocked after the contract period expired since unlocking a previously locked phone was against the law

I purchased a Nexus 4 which came unlocked so I can use a SIM from either Verizon or AT&T or my DTAC SIM when in Thailand

If the Verizon phone was purchased on contract then it most certainly will not work in Thailand, except on roaming, which is an expensive way to be able to use one phone in two places

[brucegoniners]

Did you insist that the phone Verizon sold you is unlocked? I doubt it since most carriers in the US will not unlock phones voluntarily

The US Congress recently had to pass a law to legally allow a phone to be unlocked after the contract period expired since unlocking a previously locked phone was against the law

I purchased a Nexus 4 which came unlocked so I can use a SIM from either Verizon or AT&T or my DTAC SIM when in Thailand

If the Verizon phone was purchased on contract then it most certainly will not work in Thailand, except on roaming, which is an expensive way to be able to use one phone in two places

All Verizon phones come unlocked. That is not the issue. The issue is that for some strange reason LG phones sold in the U.S. do not work on LTE here.

[build6]

I know a bit about this. You need to check that the phone has both CDMA *and* GSM hardware. I'm not familiar with the Samsung models you're looking at, but I do know this is the case for the Verizon iPhone 5S, at least (yup, most people are buying components they'll never use). So yes, you are on the CDMA network in the US, but they did not physically remove the GSM hardware from the iPhone, and once activated/unlocked by Verizon, the GSM bits can work in the rest of the world. The iPhone supports a lot of bands so it works (almost) anywhere. So, likewise, it seems plausible that at least some of the other phones Verizon sells come with both CDMA and GSM hardware incorporated, and can be activated by Verizon for use abroad. I don't know if it really is *every* LTE phone they offer (and anyone with experience with US telcos will know that "just because one of the reps say it, doesn't necessarily mean its true"), but its not automatically untrue. You need to double check the specific model you want (can't help you there, though. Don't have experience with any Samsung's personally)

[RichCor]

I know a bit about this.

You need to check that the phone has both CDMA *and* GSM hardware.

I'm not familiar with the Samsung models you're looking at, but I do know this is the case for the Verizon iPhone 5S, at least (yup, most people are buying components they'll never use). So yes, you are on the CDMA network in the US, but they did not physically remove the GSM hardware from the iPhone, and once activated/unlocked by Verizon, the GSM bits can work in the rest of the world. The iPhone supports a lot of bands so it works (almost) anywhere. So, likewise, it seems plausible that at least some of the other phones Verizon sells come with both CDMA and GSM hardware incorporated, and can be activated by Verizon for use abroad.

I don't know if it really is *every* LTE phone they offer (and anyone with experience with US telcos will know that "just because one of the reps say it, doesn't necessarily mean its true"), but its not automatically untrue. You need to double check the specific model you want (can't help you there, though. Don't have experience with any Samsung's personally)

Brucegoniners is upset ("frustrated") because something they saw or heard promised this particular CDMA version LTE phone would work in GSM countries automagically, like the iPhone, even though, unlike the iPhone, the Samsung lacked a GSM radio.

Just because a phone has an LTE label doesn't mean it will work on every LTE network. Might as well swap it with the word 'Fast' when trying to verify network compatibility for all the good it will do you.

Unless they can find text on a Verizon website that states the Samsung phone would work in GSM countries I don't believe Verizon will give them anything beyond the time of day.

As for other Verizon phones that would work, just look at the Verizon website and look for phones that are "Global Ready"

VERIZON Global Roaming FAQs

Can I roam outside the US with my device?

It depends on what type of device you have. We offer two types of global devices:

• Non-global ready (CDMA only) phones: This phone is designed to run on the network technology available in the US and more than 30 other countries (primarily in North America, the Caribbean and some Asian countries). However, it’s not designed to roam in the majority of international countries.
• Global Ready™ devices: This type of device can be used in the US as well as in more than 220 other countries. It's built with one or more of the following technologies in addition to CDMA:
  • • CDMA and/or 4G LTE:
    • Dual Band GSM
    • Quad Band GSM
    • UMTS capabilities

Visit our Global Phones and Devices shopping page.

To determine if your phone will work in a specific country, and to find out more about coverage and pricing information, visit our Trip Planner.

Note: 4G LTE devices will fall back to 3G/2G speeds when roaming globally.

[brucegoniners]

Thanks guys, but I got my answer. The band for LTE here is 2100 MHZ. The Galaxy S5 works on that frequency. The LG for some inexplicable reason does not.

[RichCor]

Thanks guys, but I got my answer. The band for LTE here is 2100 MHZ. The Galaxy S5 works on that frequency. The LG for some inexplicable reason does not.

Thailand LTE requires a device compatible with LTE Band 1

( Wikipedia: List of LTE Networks by Continent )

If you had purchase the AT&T LG G3 D850 it has

GSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz,

UMTS 850/1900/2100,

LTE Bands 2/4/5/17/29, Roaming 1/3/7, and CA*

Unfortunately, Verizon still requires full CDMA radios for voice calling (VoLTE not fully deployed nation-wide)

so the LG G3 VS985 specs were tweaked

GSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz,

CDMA 1.9 GHz

CDMA PCS/800 MHz

LTE Bands 4/13*

So, the Verizon could provide voice calling in Thailand, but absolutely no mobile Internet (3G or LTE 4G)

[brucegoniners]

Thanks guys, but I got my answer. The band for LTE here is 2100 MHZ. The Galaxy S5 works on that frequency. The LG for some inexplicable reason does not.

Thailand LTE requires a device compatible with LTE Band 1

( Wikipedia: List of LTE Networks by Continent )

If you had purchase the AT&T LG G3 D850 it has

GSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz,

UMTS 850/1900/2100,

LTE Bands 2/4/5/17/29, Roaming 1/3/7, and CA*

Unfortunately, Verizon still requires full CDMA radios for voice calling (VoLTE not fully deployed nation-wide)

so the LG G3 VS985 specs were tweaked

GSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz,

CDMA 1.9 GHz

CDMA PCS/800 MHz

LTE Bands 4/13*

So, the Verizon could provide voice calling in Thailand, but absolutely no mobile Internet (3G or LTE 4G)

Actually that's only partly true. Worked fine on 3g, but not 4g.

[Sam Drucker]

Is there any website that gives detailed specs (such as LTE bands, GSM and UMTS frequencies) for the different handset variants (such as AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon)?

I am facing the same thing as the OP. Currently a happy customer of T-Mobile, and I know my T-Mobile Samsung Note 3 worked flawlessly on the AIS 3G 1800 system last winter. I really love T-Mobile in the USA; the customer service has been outstanding. But their network is focused more on population coverage, while Verizon's has more geographic coverage. I am going to start doing some extensive travel in the USA (for work), many times in rural areas, and it may make sense to switch to Verizon because of coverage. In any case, I'd just like to stay with one smartphone, whether in the USA or Thailand. Don't want to switch phones between countries, as the smartphone becomes so much a part of life. Don't want to transition between phones if I don't absolutely have to. I'm sold on the Note series, and expect to pick up a Note 4 next week from T-Mobile. Unfortunately, my Note 3 got run over.

I will say these compatibility issues can be frustrating. Last year I brought a Thai-purchased 3G Note II to the USA to use on the T-Mobile network (It did not have 4G/LTE capability.) Voice was okay, although it constantly showed a "Roaming" indicator. On the data side, it rarely worked in 3G mode. Most of the time, just Edge.

[lomatopo]

Spectrum is diverging a bit between the U.S. and Thailand. Many phones/models/variants support GSM 1900 (T-Mo, AT&T, a few smaller regional providers), 3G 850 (AT&T) and 3G 1900 (T-Mo, spectrum re-farmed from AT&T). T-Mo and AT&T resell services through a vast array of MVNOs (Straight Talk, Simple, Cricket, et al.)

I think Verizon, AT&T, Sprint and T-Mo have the most coverage, in descending order. That said, it's not unusual to find areas without coverage from even the leading providers.

Most of the providers give detailed specs on their websites re: frequency.

http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/samsung-galaxy-note-4.html

International

Quad Band GSM; UMTS: Band I (2100), Band II (1900), Band IV (1700/2100), Band V (850); LTE: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 17

A Note 4 from T-Mo would work in Thailand, provided it is unlocked, and can accept another SIM (GSM 1800/DTAC; 3G/2100 MHz/AIS/DTAC (850 3G also/TrueMove H(850/3G also), LTE/2100 (band 1) on DTAC and TrueMove H. (I get LTE with DTAC almost everywhere I go, albeit in metro-Bangkok)T-Mo does now offer roaming in Thailand, AIS/2100 MHz 3G for me, and many low-cost int'l roaming (voice, text and data options).

For the OP, many Verizon phones are denoted as "world" phones ( a globe emblem next to the supported models ), which means they can take a third-party SIM and operate on some/many GSM and 3G frequencies, without any need for un-lock codes. My niece is using her Verizon iPhone 5S with AIS/3G 2100 MHz during her semester abroad in Chiang Mai.

T-Mo supports GSM 1900, 3G/1900 and LTE on AWS (1700x2100; a unique spectrum not supported on every variant). My Thai Nexus 5 does not support AWS, but a U.S. N5 would. I get 3G on 1900 MHz from T-Mo just about everywhere I go in the U.S., but I am, for the most part, in metropolitan areas. I pay $3/day for unlimited voice, text and data, as my trips are brief (just on my way back to Thailand after a week here). If I stayed longer I'd get a monthly plan. BTW, T-Mo did change their expiry so now you may have to pay $3/month to maintain your number.

Edited October 7, 2014 by lomatopo

[RichCor]

Is there any website that gives detailed specs (such as LTE bands, GSM and UMTS frequencies) for the different handset variants (such as AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon)?

The best place would be to look as the phone specs published on the Carrier Website, followed by the mobile Manufacturer website.

There are many sites that try to post the specs and feature-sets of mobile sets sold around the world, such as GSMArena.com and PhoneArena.com but you can't always rely that the posted specs or feature sets are accurate, nor how the specs or feature sets are different between branded carriers or model variations. You should always refer back to the carrier and manufacturer website when checking and comparing specifications.

Take a look at the carrier's offering of 'Global' or 'International' labeled phones.

If you can, try finding a phone that works on the US carrier of your choice that also has the band support used in countries you plan to visit.

Thailand currently utilizes BAND 1 (2100 MHz), with some Thai carriers also utilizing BAND 5 (850 MHz) and BAND 8 (900 MHz) for 3.9G and LTE Data and Voice. Future auctions may also see BAND 3 (1800 MHz) re-licensed from GSM only use to 4G/LTE.

According to Wikipedia, "The LTE standard covers a range of many different bands, each of which is designated by both a frequency and a band number. In North America, 700, 750, 800, 850, 1900, 1700/2100 (AWS), 2500 and 2600 MHz (Rogers Communications, Bell Canada) are used (bands 4, 7, 12, 13, 17, 25, 26, 41); 2500 MHz in South America; 800, 900, 1800, 2600 MHz in Europe(bands 3, 7, 20);[32][33] 1800 and 2600 MHz in Asia (bands 1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 11, 13, 40);[34] and 1800 MHz and 2300 MHz in Australia[35][36] and New Zealand (bands 3, 40).[37] As a result, phones from one country may not work in other countries. Users will need a multi-band capable phone for roaming internationally."

[spookysully]

Hello, I've been reading through this thread and haven't (not a tech savoy phone guy) found what I'm looking for. At least I don't think I have... I live in Thailand, Bangkok to be precise and thanks to my brother in the states, have just received a new Samsung S6 from Verizon which is supposed to have the 2 networks CDMA and GSM as well as a sim slot. I can't even turn the thing on because its asking me to activate it? Its looking for the Verizon network I think because it just sits and spins and says that it cannot find what its looking for.

Does this sound like something anyone has seen before? I'm clueless and want just a bit of info before I go to a shop to ask for help here.

Cheers!

[Langsuan Man]

Hello, I've been reading through this thread and haven't (not a tech savoy phone guy) found what I'm looking for. At least I don't think I have... I live in Thailand, Bangkok to be precise and thanks to my brother in the states, have just received a new Samsung S6 from Verizon which is supposed to have the 2 networks CDMA and GSM as well as a sim slot. I can't even turn the thing on because its asking me to activate it? Its looking for the Verizon network I think because it just sits and spins and says that it cannot find what its looking for.

Does this sound like something anyone has seen before? I'm clueless and want just a bit of info before I go to a shop to ask for help here.

Cheers!

Is the S6 locked to verizon? (Can I use foreign sim cards?)

The Samsung Galaxy S6 comes with a built in sim card and a non-removable battery. So yes, it IS locked into Verizon with THEIR sim card, if that is the carrier where you purchase the phone through.....

Source:http://www.verizonwireless.com/smartphones/samsung-galaxy-s6/

So despite the pronouncement by some members here Verizon says their phones (at least the Samsung Galaxy S6) is locked to the Verizon network

[spookysully]

Thank for the response! I can get it unlocked here in Bangkok no?

[Langsuan Man]

Thank for the response! I can get it unlocked here in Bangkok no?

Probably, Yes

[BKKdreaming]

Hello, I've been reading through this thread and haven't (not a tech savoy phone guy) found what I'm looking for. At least I don't think I have... I live in Thailand, Bangkok to be precise and thanks to my brother in the states, have just received a new Samsung S6 from Verizon which is supposed to have the 2 networks CDMA and GSM as well as a sim slot. I can't even turn the thing on because its asking me to activate it? Its looking for the Verizon network I think because it just sits and spins and says that it cannot find what its looking for.

Does this sound like something anyone has seen before? I'm clueless and want just a bit of info before I go to a shop to ask for help here.

Cheers!

4G Verizon phones have both CDMA and GSM ,

I brought an Verizon iPhone over last trip and it worked fine ,

Did you try putting a Thai Sim card in it ?

Since its looking for a CDMA signal it just keeps "spinning"

try a Thai sim card , it may already be unlocked for GSM