Are middle class Thais wealthier than middle class Europeans/Americans

[rayongchelsea]

Yes.

If both Husband and wife work.

[soomak]

USA - Thailand:

The median American makes roughly $27,000 a year after tax = $2,100 per month = 65,000 baht per month.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

The median Thai outside of Bangkok, makes probably 12,000 baht/month, maybe even less.

In Bangkok, maybe 20,000 baht/month.

There are differences in the cost of living: overall the US is 70% more expensive, according to what I could find.

Still, the median American would be twice as wealthy as the median Bangkokian, and 3+ times of the median non-Bangkokian Thai.

Europe - Thailand:

Well Europe is a diverse place, but if we look at the wealthier countries (Germany, France, UK, Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Ireland, Italy, Belgium), I believe the differences would be the same or even larger.

[Stradavarius37]

Have you met your gf's other 2 bf yet?

[Bender]

That why we have the Big Mac index.

And for any item, it will take more "time-work" for the thai middle class to purchase it than the western middle class.

By example, for a ticket subway, back home 2 euro, Thailand 40 baht.

It will take maybe half an hour for the thai middle class to earn this money while for the western it will just 10 minutes

Another example Ticket movie theater: back home 10 euro, Thai 160 baht.

It will take less than one hour of salary for the western guy to afford to watch a movie, while for the thai middle class he will need to work more than 2 hours.

And that true for rent, gazoil, food, cloth...

My number are not really accurate, but what i see in the reality, its the middle class in Bkk, who canot afford all the useless expensive items are struggling with debt.

[soomak]

USA - Thailand:

The median American makes roughly $27,000 a year after tax = $2,100 per month = 65,000 baht per month.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

The median Thai outside of Bangkok, makes probably 12,000 baht/month, maybe even less.

In Bangkok, maybe 20,000 baht/month.

There are differences in the cost of living: overall the US is 70% more expensive, according to what I could find.

Still, the median American would be twice as wealthy as the median Bangkokian, and 3+ times of the median non-Bangkokian Thai.

Europe - Thailand:

Well Europe is a diverse place, but if we look at the wealthier countries (Germany, France, UK, Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Ireland, Italy, Belgium), I believe the differences would be the same or even larger.

Just one correction:

$27,000 a year after tax = $2,250 per month = 70,000 baht per month.

[manarak]

That why we have the Big Mac index.

And for any item, it will take more "time-work" for the thai middle class to purchase it than the western middle class.

By example, for a ticket subway, back home 2 euro, Thailand 40 baht.

It will take maybe half an hour for the thai middle class to earn this money while for the western it will just 10 minutes

Another example Ticket movie theater: back home 10 euro, Thai 160 baht.

It will take less than one hour of salary for the western guy to afford to watch a movie, while for the thai middle class he will need to work more than 2 hours.

And that true for rent, gazoil, food, cloth...

My number are not really accurate, but what i see in the reality, its the middle class in Bkk, who canot afford all the useless expensive items are struggling with debt.

The big mac index only reflects reality in countries where McDonald's is the cheapest offer for a non-subsidized meal.

In countries where cheaper meals are available (especially in countries with scarce beef and potato supply), these meals should be considered for the index instead of the big mac.

[Thai at Heart]

I can best illustrate this with my girlfriend. She has or is able to afford:

1) 2 houses on a generous plot of land. No mortgage

2) 3 cars. At least one of them fully paid.

3) she is able to send her kid to a very expensive private school. The tuition fee is more than $5000 per year. But that is not enough she gets private lessons too and other extracurricular activities.

4) she has 2 housekeepers

5) she wants to buy an extra condo in bangkok

6) in general gas and parking fees are no problem. She just pays them. I think it adds up to about 5000-7000 per month alone. Food and other items are no problem either no matter what the price or how often she goes shopping.

This lifestyle is impossible for me in Europe. In fact its not even possible for me to get in Thailand.

By wealth measure she is not middle income. She may not come from money or have a name, but I would say that is not middle income in Europe or Thailand.

[Thai at Heart]

It's hard to work out a Thais worth, I live in a small village, we bought our land off an old dear who lives in a shack

When it came down to finalising payments etc, her son turned up in a 4wd Porsche, I asked my wife

Does she have money?

Oh yes she own many Rai , she have big money, her son have hotel in Bangkok

I have been humbled , I thought most of the people in Isaan where living hard

The older generation don't seem to show their wealth

Thais don't earn money to get wealthy they make money. It's a subtle difference.

Owning land is not earning money.

[Bender]

That why we have the Big Mac index.

And for any item, it will take more "time-work" for the thai middle class to purchase it than the western middle class.

By example, for a ticket subway, back home 2 euro, Thailand 40 baht.

It will take maybe half an hour for the thai middle class to earn this money while for the western it will just 10 minutes

Another example Ticket movie theater: back home 10 euro, Thai 160 baht.

It will take less than one hour of salary for the western guy to afford to watch a movie, while for the thai middle class he will need to work more than 2 hours.

And that true for rent, gazoil, food, cloth...

My number are not really accurate, but what i see in the reality, its the middle class in Bkk, who canot afford all the useless expensive items are struggling with debt.

The big mac index only reflects reality in countries where McDonald's is the cheapest offer for a non-subsidized meal.

In countries where cheaper meals are available (especially in countries with scarce beef and potato supply), these meals should be considered for the index instead of the big mac.

In fact to be more accurate, here the definition of the Big Mac Index

The Big Mac Index had become the global standard in determining the purchasing parity power between two CURRENCY by comparing the cost of Mc Donald’s Burger between the two countries.

They realize later it was to much inconstancy, because from one country to the another, the big mac is not really the same size and quality.

And you have the Alternative Big Mac index, where they truely compare the purchasing power. How long it take to buy a similar product in different country.

I might agree with you, about we can not compare purchasing power between two country with a single item. Because moslty a cheap item might be a rarity in other country.

But you totally missed my point. As a said previoulsy if you take essentials items (or even non-essential items), then you can make a real comparaison.

The midle class thpurchasing power in Thailand is quite similar to the low wage in western europe... yes sir!

[manarak]

The midle class thpurchasing power in Thailand is quite similar to the low wage in western europe... yes sir!

I agree as far as necessities and consumer electronics are concerned.

But Thai middle class is able to pay for ownership of a house in much less than 40 years and eats out rather than at home. They can also employ staff to help out with domestic tasks.

The lifestyle is quite different.

Regarding the "alternative big mac index": since the index considers only the burger without fries and without drink, I would compare it to a good kao man gai for... how much is kao man gai nowadays? 45 or 50 baht?

Median Thai income is estimated to approx. 12.000 baht, if we assume this represents 8 hours daily and 6 days a week, we get a salary of approx. 1.10 baht a minute, which puts the price of a kao man gai at 40 minutes of work, which is very close to the global average of time needed for a big mac.

[Thai at Heart]

That why we have the Big Mac index.

And for any item, it will take more "time-work" for the thai middle class to purchase it than the western middle class.

By example, for a ticket subway, back home 2 euro, Thailand 40 baht.

It will take maybe half an hour for the thai middle class to earn this money while for the western it will just 10 minutes

Another example Ticket movie theater: back home 10 euro, Thai 160 baht.

It will take less than one hour of salary for the western guy to afford to watch a movie, while for the thai middle class he will need to work more than 2 hours.

And that true for rent, gazoil, food, cloth...

My number are not really accurate, but what i see in the reality, its the middle class in Bkk, who canot afford all the useless expensive items are struggling with debt.

The big mac index only reflects reality in countries where McDonald's is the cheapest offer for a non-subsidized meal.

In countries where cheaper meals are available (especially in countries with scarce beef and potato supply), these meals should be considered for the index instead of the big mac.

In fact to be more accurate, here the definition of the Big Mac Index

The Big Mac Index had become the global standard in determining the purchasing parity power between two CURRENCY by comparing the cost of Mc Donalds Burger between the two countries.

They realize later it was to much inconstancy, because from one country to the another, the big mac is not really the same size and quality.

And you have the Alternative Big Mac index, where they truely compare the purchasing power. How long it take to buy a similar product in different country.

I might agree with you, about we can not compare purchasing power between two country with a single item. Because moslty a cheap item might be a rarity in other country.

But you totally missed my point. As a said previoulsy if you take essentials items (or even non-essential items), then you can make a real comparaison.

The midle class thpurchasing power in Thailand is quite similar to the low wage in western europe... yes sir!

In the medium term it will tell if a currency is over our under valued, and it isn't that inaccurate.

[manarak]

Thais don't earn money to get wealthy they make money. It's a subtle difference.

I agree to some extent... but making the difference between making and earning requires some sort of moral judge - that's where the thought begins to stink.

[Bender]

The midle class thpurchasing power in Thailand is quite similar to the low wage in western europe... yes sir!

I agree as far as necessities and consumer electronics are concerned.

But Thai middle class is able to pay for ownership of a house in much less than 40 years and eats out rather than at home. They can also employ staff to help out with domestic tasks.

The lifestyle is quite different.

Regarding the "alternative big mac index": since the index considers only the burger without fries and without drink, I would compare it to a good kao man gai for... how much is kao man gai nowadays? 45 or 50 baht?

Median Thai income is estimated to approx. 12.000 baht, if we assume this represents 8 hours daily and 6 days a week, we get a salary of approx. 1.10 baht a minute, which puts the price of a kao man gai at 40 minutes of work, which is very close to the global average of time needed for a big mac.

Sorry but i really disagree... with your opinion and your number.

So let start, i sum up your point in italics because i am confused between your definition of middle class, median income or maybe household income...

_the thai middle class will be able to pay their house in 40 years

yes if the dad, mother and childrenS all get a job, yes they can pay it back.

Otherwise i disagree....

_the middle class eats out rather at home

Not wrong, but you forget to add, its all the thai society that eat out.....the 40 BAHT meal.

Because some canot afford to have a kitchen in their rabbit box...

About the middle thai class you didnt specify where and what they do eat.

I will have a hard time, believing they eat every night and day at fuji restaurant, their salary is not quite high enough, or maybe they just eat salad.

_the middle class do have domestics.

Yes some, others NO

I do frequent a lot thai middle class, all dont have domestics... you do watch to much movie.

Yes some, middle "to upper" class might have illegal burmese that get paid few thousands baht each month.... slavery???

_ the median income is 44 baht per hour;

First you didnt specify if you consider them as the thai middle class,

because with 44 baht per hours you will NOT be able to eat at fuji each night, to have your own domestic, and pay your house in less than 40 years...

_the big mac I would compare it to a good kao man gai which is very close to the global average of time needed for a big mac.

You confused me so much.... we do compare the thai middle class purchasing power VS EUROPEANS/AMERICAN...not the world!

So if i follow your figure, it will take 44 minutes work to earn enough money to buy some simple chicken rice for a thai.... while in EUROPE/USA it will take less than 20 minutes to earn enough to buy

a (brand name famous and luxurious ) burger (see my previous post)

Mmmmmmh so its take 2 times more work-time to buy food for a thai..... these fact doesnt suit your logic.

I can go on for hours about your biased logic , but why we dont make our own chart. And lets compare the purchasing power between thai and Europe.

We can choose 5 essentials items and 5 non-essentials items, the low wage and middle class wage thai VS Europe/Us

and see which one is struggling to reach the end of the month....ok? ????

Edited October 5, 2013 by Bender

[NeverSure]

Comparing values in dollars is like comparing apples and pears.

What counts is the substance - a house that costs 500k in the USA would cost only about 150k-200k in Thailand.

Comparing houses in the USA to houses in Thailand is like comparing apples and pears.

Would the Thai home have central aircon (and heat in the US?) Would it be on a really good paved street with sidewalks, curbs and gutters with handicap ramps in the curbs? Would it have true sanitary sewer and safe water?

Would it have a readily available fire hydrant meeting standards for flow and pressure? Would it have smoke detectors and alarms throughout? Would the electricity be properly grounded? Would it have GFI plugs in the kitchen, bathrooms and laundry rooms, in the garage and all outside plugs?

Would it have a minimum of a two car garage with an automatic opener?

Would it and the infrastructure of the neighborhood meet all US codes?

I don't think so.

My Thai house has everything you mention except central aircon, safe water and the hydrant.

But I guess your example US house lacks the competition pool table, the 15 meter swimming pool, the jacuzzi and the sauna, as well as probably one bed room or two.

The point is, a good restaurant meal in the US is "worth" 50 dollars, while a good restaurant meal in the LOS is "worth" 15 dollars.

If comparing dollar values, one would conclude that the US meal is more than 3 times superior, yet in reality both are good meals and therefore equivalent.

That's why GDP figures cannot be compared.

Average disposable income adjusted by purchasing power has to be used for comparisons.

For your argument with the car, you need to compare all costs, not just the purchase price.

Do a comparison including all repair costs, costs for cleaning the car, tyres, etc. over 3 years and include the resale price.

$50 for a good restaurant meal in the US? Sure, you can spend that if you live in a big enough town, but even the big chains like Roadhouse Grill and Outback Steakhouse don't have anything that expensive on the menu. I can have a good meal there for 1/2 that or less, with a tip. The beef will be American beef too, so that isn't apples and apples. You can eat in the US without fear of getting sick, it will be clean, the water will be safe as will the ice...

You have a house just like that? With curbs and gutters and sidewalks and house gutters and downspouts plumbed into storm drains in the street, and good street paving and if it's in town, all underground utilities including electricity, cable TV and internet, phone, a well run ambulance service within 5 minutes...

Do you think I haven't seen and smelled Thailand? Do you think I haven't smelled it and on some days in some places almost gagged? Do you think I haven't seen what they call paving, or what they call sidewalks?

Cars? When in Thailand they start out at more than double, and gas costs more, I have a no brainer here. I don't know of a single car built in Thailand that can be sold in the US due to safety standards. They simply won't pass the crash tests.

Anyone who seriously believes that middle class Westerners aren't wealthier than middle class Thais is asleep.

As a parting shot, take a look at this crash comparison, and improvements in the last few decades. That little silver Chevy has a crumple zone in the front, and I wouldn't be surprised if the doors would still open, and the driver be able to simply get out and walk away.

[manarak]

The midle class thpurchasing power in Thailand is quite similar to the low wage in western europe... yes sir!

I agree as far as necessities and consumer electronics are concerned.

But Thai middle class is able to pay for ownership of a house in much less than 40 years and eats out rather than at home. They can also employ staff to help out with domestic tasks.

The lifestyle is quite different.

Regarding the "alternative big mac index": since the index considers only the burger without fries and without drink, I would compare it to a good kao man gai for... how much is kao man gai nowadays? 45 or 50 baht?

Median Thai income is estimated to approx. 12.000 baht, if we assume this represents 8 hours daily and 6 days a week, we get a salary of approx. 1.10 baht a minute, which puts the price of a kao man gai at 40 minutes of work, which is very close to the global average of time needed for a big mac.

Sorry but i really disagree... with your opinion and your number.

So let start, i sum up your point in italics because i am confused between your definition of middle class, median income or maybe household income...

_the thai middle class will be able to pay their house in 40 years

yes if the dad, mother and childrenS all get a job, yes they can pay it back.

Otherwise i disagree....

_the middle class eats out rather at home

Not wrong, but you forget to add, its all the thai society that eat out.....the 40 BAHT meal.

Because some canot afford to have a kitchen in their rabbit box...

About the middle thai class you didnt specify where and what they do eat.

I will have a hard time, believing they eat every night and day at fuji restaurant, their salary is not quite high enough, or maybe they just eat salad.

_the middle class do have domestics.

Yes some, others NO

I do frequent a lot thai middle class, all dont have domestics... you do watch to much movie.

Yes some, middle "to upper" class might have illegal burmese that get paid few thousands baht each month.... slavery???

_ the median income is 44 baht per hour;

First you didnt specify if you consider them as the thai middle class,

because with 44 baht per hours you will NOT be able to eat at fuji each night, to have your own domestic, and pay your house in less than 40 years...

_the big mac I would compare it to a good kao man gai which is very close to the global average of time needed for a big mac.

You confused me so much.... we do compare the thai middle class purchasing power VS EUROPEANS/AMERICAN...not the world!

So if i follow your figure, it will take 44 minutes work to earn enough money to buy some simple chicken rice for a thai.... while in EUROPE/USA it will take less than 20 minutes to earn enough to buy

a (brand name famous and luxurious ) burger (see my previous post)

Mmmmmmh so its take 2 times more work-time to buy food for a thai..... these fact doesnt suit your logic.

I can go on for hours about your biased logic , but why we dont make our own chart. And lets compare the purchasing power between thai and Europe.

We can choose 5 essentials items and 5 non-essentials items, the low wage and middle class wage thai VS Europe/Us

and see which one is struggling to reach the end of the month....ok? ????

errrmmm.... my logic appears biaised because you biaised almost every statement I made...

I wrote "Thai middle class ... eats out rather than at home"

not

_the middle class eats out rather at home

(you actually write the opposite from what I wrote)

I wrote "salary of approx. 1.10 baht a minute"

not

_the median income is 44 baht per hour

(if you use my calculation, it's quite easy to compute 66 baht per hour)

You confused me so much...

I think so...

[manarak]

$50 for a good restaurant meal in the US? Sure, you can spend that if you live in a big enough town, but even the big chains like Roadhouse Grill and Outback Steakhouse don't have anything that expensive on the menu. I can have a good meal there for 1/2 that or less, with a tip. The beef will be American beef too, so that isn't apples and apples. You can eat in the US without fear of getting sick, it will be clean, the water will be safe as will the ice...

You have a house just like that? With curbs and gutters and sidewalks and house gutters and downspouts plumbed into storm drains in the street, and good street paving and if it's in town, all underground utilities including electricity, cable TV and internet, phone, a well run ambulance service within 5 minutes...

Do you think I haven't seen and smelled Thailand? Do you think I haven't smelled it and on some days in some places almost gagged? Do you think I haven't seen what they call paving, or what they call sidewalks?

Cars? When in Thailand they start out at more than double, and gas costs more, I have a no brainer here. I don't know of a single car built in Thailand that can be sold in the US due to safety standards. They simply won't pass the crash tests.

Anyone who seriously believes that middle class Westerners aren't wealthier than middle class Thais is asleep.

As a parting shot, take a look at this crash comparison, and improvements in the last few decades. That little silver Chevy has a crumple zone in the front, and I wouldn't be surprised if the doors would still open, and the driver be able to simply get out and walk away.

ok you win

[Bender]

errrmmm.... my logic appears biaised because you biaised almost every statement I made...

I wrote "Thai middle class ... eats out rather than at home"

not

_the middle class eats out rather at home

(you actually write the opposite from what I wrote)

I wrote "salary of approx. 1.10 baht a minute"

not

_the median income is 44 baht per hour

(if you use my calculation, it's quite easy to compute 66 baht per hour)

yes sorry for my mistake, its not 44 baht but 66 baht per hour salary.

Your huge mistake about the purchasing power for a chicken rice VS burger, did confuse me.....

44 to 66, Yes what a huge difference, of course with 66 baht/hour, now for sure you can afford to buy a house, have a domestic. But please let me know how you do.

How lucky they are!

ps:

about "the thai middle class eating out rather than at home" you did throw it like it was an luxury thing that only middle class thai can afford when in fact (even with your 66 baht/hour ) you can only afford a 40 baht meal....(yes dont forget you have 3 meals in a day, drink also to pay for your rent, ride, cloth,......)

Mate you are completely out because you see mostly the thai middle class throught ...your foreign wallet and your imagination.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Bender

[TimTang]

You're kidding, right? Average per capita income Thailand, less than US$6k. US, $50k. The US doesn't charge import taxes making all major items cheaper by far. Computers, cars, TV's, etc. US grows its own food making Western food far cheaper.

Wealthier? Which middle class Thai owns a home worth US$500k? (15 million baht.)

I just bought a new Honda CRV for 800,000 baht, (US$25,000.) It would be more like 2 million baht in Thailand. It's 4 wheel limited slip drive, sun roof - loaded. A middle class Thai can't afford that if only because of the taxes causing it to cost 2.5x as much.

Someone is dreaming if he thinks 3rd world Thais are anywhere near as wealthy as Westerners.

Thais don't pay taxes? Try buying a car or anything imported.

Comparing values in dollars is like comparing apples and pears.

What counts is the substance - a house that costs 500k in the USA would cost only about 150k-200k in Thailand.

You're right! Rather than comparing dollar for dollar it would be more appropriate to compare "Quality of Life". I believe a Thai can achieve a higher quality of life with less income than would be typical in a western society.

[MrHammer]

It's very simple. In the US and most European countries the government takes the middle class money and gives them to the lower classes in the form of welfare or indirectly through trade unions.

That is why the middle class gets much less, because the lower classes are being subsidized by the middle class money.

Take away welfare, like in Thailand, and yes many americans would still have themselves a black maid or mexican handyman on staff.

Don't hate just because many (of you) westerners believe in the so called 'equality'. The cost of subsidizing the least productive is massive.

Oh yeah, and the rest mentioned here is right too. Thais spend much less on rent than most westerners. I spend a lot on rent and consider myself middle class and I see a lot of expensive BMWs and Audis in my condo. Thais spend their money where it can be seen, smartphone, clothes, car, restaurants. Yeah, its tasteless from a european viewpoint, but they're nueovo rich so what you can you do.

[TimTang]

You're kidding, right? Average per capita income Thailand, less than US$6k. US, $50k. The US doesn't charge import taxes making all major items cheaper by far. Computers, cars, TV's, etc. US grows its own food making Western food far cheaper.

Wealthier? Which middle class Thai owns a home worth US$500k? (15 million baht.)

I just bought a new Honda CRV for 800,000 baht, (US$25,000.) It would be more like 2 million baht in Thailand. It's 4 wheel limited slip drive, sun roof - loaded. A middle class Thai can't afford that if only because of the taxes causing it to cost 2.5x as much.

Someone is dreaming if he thinks 3rd world Thais are anywhere near as wealthy as Westerners.

Thais don't pay taxes? Try buying a car or anything imported.

Comparing values in dollars is like comparing apples and pears.

What counts is the substance - a house that costs 500k in the USA would cost only about 150k-200k in Thailand.

Comparing houses in the USA to houses in Thailand is like comparing apples and pears.

Would the Thai home have central aircon (and heat in the US?) Would it be on a really good paved street with sidewalks, curbs and gutters with handicap ramps in the curbs? Would it have true sanitary sewer and safe water?

Would it have a readily available fire hydrant meeting standards for flow and pressure? Would it have smoke detectors and alarms throughout? Would the electricity be properly grounded? Would it have GFI plugs in the kitchen, bathrooms and laundry rooms, in the garage and all outside plugs?

Would it have a minimum of a two car garage with an automatic opener?

Would it and the infrastructure of the neighborhood meet all US codes?

I don't think so.

You're correct in saying Thai homes would most likely not be up to US spec. but most new homes in Thailand are built of brick and concrete while the roofs are made from steel framing with ceramic shingles. I could be wrong but from my observation house fires are a rarity in Thailand. Because of the construction materials Thai houses are less prone to fire; that's pure speculation and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

[ronnybill]

Do you guys actually know what a middle class is? its not some one who earns $100,000 but $1,000,000's . Some one who earns on the low $100,000 is just professional working class

[manarak]

errrmmm.... my logic appears biaised because you biaised almost every statement I made...

I wrote "Thai middle class ... eats out rather than at home"

not

_the middle class eats out rather at home

(you actually write the opposite from what I wrote)

I wrote "salary of approx. 1.10 baht a minute"

not

_the median income is 44 baht per hour

(if you use my calculation, it's quite easy to compute 66 baht per hour)

yes sorry for my mistake, its not 44 baht but 66 baht per hour salary.

Your huge mistake about the purchasing power for a chicken rice VS burger, did confuse me.....

44 to 66, Yes what a huge difference, of course with 66 baht/hour, now for sure you can afford to buy a house, have a domestic. But please let me know how you do.

How lucky they are!

ps:

about "the thai middle class eating out rather than at home" you did throw it like it was an luxury thing that only middle class thai can afford when in fact (even with your 66 baht/hour ) you can only afford a 40 baht meal....(yes dont forget you have 3 meals in a day, drink also to pay for your rent, ride, cloth,......)

Mate you are completely out because you see mostly the thai middle class throught ...your foreign wallet and your imagination.

you win too

[jimbobs1]

It's hard to work out a Thais worth, I live in a small village, we bought our land off an old dear who lives in a shack

When it came down to finalising payments etc, her son turned up in a 4wd Porsche, I asked my wife

Does she have money?

Oh yes she own many Rai , she have big money, her son have hotel in Bangkok

I have been humbled , I thought most of the people in Isaan where living hard

The older generation don't seem to show their wealth

Thais don't earn money to get wealthy they make money. It's a subtle difference.

Owning land is not earning money.

So she rents that land out for people to farm , sugar cane , rubber etc so she's not earning money

I am quite confused by that statement

[farang000999]

Do you guys actually know what a middle class is? its not some one who earns $100,000 but $1,000,000's . Some one who earns on the low $100,000 is just professional working class

Edited October 6, 2013 by farang000999

[homeownership]

Middleclass Thais are certainly better off than Middleclass Europeans.

In the UK of you earn over £50,000 the government tax you 40% off your income. Then theres National Insurance, Council Tax, Road Fund Tax, TV Licence, 20% VAT.

Hardly worth working is it. Certainly worth living in Thailand.

[yourauntbob]

You're kidding, right? Average per capita income Thailand, less than US$6k. US, $50k. The US doesn't charge import taxes making all major items cheaper by far. Computers, cars, TV's, etc. US grows its own food making Western food far cheaper.

Wealthier? Which middle class Thai owns a home worth US$500k? (15 million baht.)

I just bought a new Honda CRV for 800,000 baht, (US$25,000.) It would be more like 2 million baht in Thailand. It's 4 wheel limited slip drive, sun roof - loaded. A middle class Thai can't afford that if only because of the taxes causing it to cost 2.5x as much.

Someone is dreaming if he thinks 3rd world Thais are anywhere near as wealthy as Westerners.

Thais don't pay taxes? Try buying a car or anything imported.

Comparing values in dollars is like comparing apples and pears.

What counts is the substance - a house that costs 500k in the USA would cost only about 150k-200k in Thailand.

Comparing houses in the USA to houses in Thailand is like comparing apples and pears.

Would the Thai home have central aircon (and heat in the US?) Would it be on a really good paved street with sidewalks, curbs and gutters with handicap ramps in the curbs? Would it have true sanitary sewer and safe water?

Would it have a readily available fire hydrant meeting standards for flow and pressure? Would it have smoke detectors and alarms throughout? Would the electricity be properly grounded? Would it have GFI plugs in the kitchen, bathrooms and laundry rooms, in the garage and all outside plugs?

Would it have a minimum of a two car garage with an automatic opener?

Would it and the infrastructure of the neighborhood meet all US codes?

I don't think so.

most important, would the construction hold up and will the house look respectable after 15 years. will the house still be standing in 40-70 years?

[bocceball1]

Manarak said "What counts is the substance - a house that costs 500k in the USA would cost only about 150k-200k in Thailand."

your right .....if you live in Issan ....or most anywhere outside of Bangkok

BUT most of the middle class Thai's live in Bangkok.......not many houses (if any) cost "150k-200k" in Bangkok....Cheap to build (10k/meter} ...Its the land that's outrageously expensive.

[stickylies]

comparing a standard thai house with a standard house in western europe is a joke. the house i live in is 100% middle class ("FANCY") and it's just a cheap box in bricks. being able to afford 2 houses means nothing in this country. my neighbour earns 19.000bt/month and has 2 houses.

[abrahamzvi]

If one refers to the real middle class in Thailand - a family of 4 one earner making net around, or maximum, baht 100,000 p.m., they are worse off than in the US, Australia or Europe. They most certainly unable to send their 2 children to private schools charging at least Baht 20,000 p.m., nor shopping in the expensive malls. You are correct in saying that domestic labour is much cheaper here than in western countries, and so is housing. On the average a middle class family of 4 would enjoy in the west a similar standard of living as here, without the benefits of domestic help. The other factor is that public schooling in most western countries is nearly free and of a much higher standard than in Thailand. For 2 school attending children it makes all the difference in the world, if you don't have to pay exorbitant school fees like in private schools in Thailand!

[moe666]

Since the Op never stated what the girl friends salary is and what she does for a living other than living with mom and pop, we are not talking a realistic comparison.