river kwai trips/transport

[allyoops]

I have looked at the forum but so far unable to see relevant topics.

I am arriving on nov 2 and have 3 days before a week in pattaya .I would like to go to the river kwai ,hellfire pass ,was museum .

is there a way of getting there and staying overnight or for a couple of days .I was there once before and was lucky enough to buddy up with two chaps and we shared a private driver.unfortunately it all ended up a bit rushed and the weather was not kind to us.

I have seen ads for the one day trips but these trips don't really appeal.

[David48]

My sister went this these guys ... http://www.thailandtours.com.au/?act=u01

Different options.

She thoroughly enjoyed it.

[cpofc]

One day trips to K'Buri are as useless as the are tiring and only serve as 'been there' value. Hellfire Pass is 70K up the road and just getting down into the cutting and back again in the tropical heat is a big task when you are not so young anymore. You need at least an overnight stay if you want to do everything..

The Guesthouses along Mae Nam Kwae Road, alongside the river are quite good these days. Even got swimming pools now! Check out Phong Phen Guesthouse, an old favourite of mine.. good accomodation, good food, nice people and relaxing. I love it up there and I am well overdue for another visit to 'veg' out by the river.

Just organise a taxi/car and driver to get you there and your set. You can organise yourself once you get there.

I reckon the food in K'Buri is of the best and cheapest in the Kingdom and there is enough to see and do to fill up a few days.

[NoshowJones]

One day trips to K'Buri are as useless as the are tiring and only serve as 'been there' value. Hellfire Pass is 70K up the road and just getting down into the cutting and back again in the tropical heat is a big task when you are not so young anymore. You need at least an overnight stay if you want to do everything..

The Guesthouses along Mae Nam Kwae Road, alongside the river are quite good these days. Even got swimming pools now! Check out Phong Phen Guesthouse, an old favourite of mine.. good accomodation, good food, nice people and relaxing. I love it up there and I am well overdue for another visit to 'veg' out by the river.

Just organise a taxi/car and driver to get you there and your set. You can organise yourself once you get there.

I reckon the food in K'Buri is of the best and cheapest in the Kingdom and there is enough to see and do to fill up a few days.

What I noticed in K'buri was the lack of 7-11s in the main part around the bridge area. That is because there are venders selling the same things as 7-11, but only a lot more expensive, be warned.

[cpofc]

One day trips to K'Buri are as useless as the are tiring and only serve as 'been there' value. Hellfire Pass is 70K up the road and just getting down into the cutting and back again in the tropical heat is a big task when you are not so young anymore. You need at least an overnight stay if you want to do everything..

The Guesthouses along Mae Nam Kwae Road, alongside the river are quite good these days. Even got swimming pools now! Check out Phong Phen Guesthouse, an old favourite of mine.. good accomodation, good food, nice people and relaxing. I love it up there and I am well overdue for another visit to 'veg' out by the river.

Just organise a taxi/car and driver to get you there and your set. You can organise yourself once you get there.

I reckon the food in K'Buri is of the best and cheapest in the Kingdom and there is enough to see and do to fill up a few days.

What I noticed in K'buri was the lack of 7-11s in the main part around the bridge area. That is because there are venders selling the same things as 7-11, but only a lot more expensive, be warned.

The 'main' tourist part of which you speak, around the bridge area, is where all the day 'trippers' go in their big tourist buses. it is just a common old tourist trap, like so many around the world. Just going up to see the 'Bridge' is a waste of a trip. Come back a Klm or two from the Bridge along Mae Nam Kwae Road and you have 7/11's and all the other things you need at more than reasonable prices.

One thing to avoid (unless this is what you want) is the more expensive resort hotels located outside of the city. Transport is still a problem in K'buri and getting to and from these ritzy hotels after a night out is a big PITA.

[jackr]

Kan Wikitravel:

"Transport Tour:, Tour agencies in Bangkok commonly sell a package that includes Toyota minibus transport from your Bangkok hotel to the falls and back, with lunch and the park entrance fee of 200 baht included, for 1,100 baht, circa early 2011. The packages are generally standardised and non-negotiable in price. Some tours also include a stop at the bridge over the River Kwai, so inquire.

Tour packages that visitors can purchase from the nearby hotels/resorts in Kanchanaburi may include a stop to the Erawan waterfalls and other selected tourist attractions such as elephant riding, bamboo rafting, Tiger Temple and Hellfire Pass. These packages range around 1600 baht and include all transportation to and from the resort, the park fees, lunch, and an English-speaking guide.

In July 2011, many tour agencies and hotels were offering tours for 1,000-1,100 baht including entrance fees, lunch, elephant walk, bamboo raft ride, River Kwai Bridge, and a choice of Hellfire Pass or Erawan Falls. Not all combinations of tours leave every day so check a few days ahead if you're after something specific."

[kevvy]

dont go the the tiger(drug them)TEMPLE

[arthurwait]

River Kwair just in case you have to tell a Thai you want to go there.

The bridge isn't even the bridge, don't get too excited. Hellfire pass is worth a trip and quite haunting.

[cpofc]

Many books are available these days but one of the very first narratives of Ex POWs is this one. Which I have kept with me among my personal things.

If you are spending anytime in the Kingdom at all and have not been to this sacred place, you MUST go.

Slaves of the Son of Heaven: A Personal Account of Australian POW 1942-1945 - Roy Hamilton Whitecross

First published in 1951, this account of the author's experience as a Private in the 8th Division of the AIF from 1941 tells of his incarceration as a Japanese POW in Malaya, Burma, Thailand and Japan. Recalls his time working on the Burma-Thailand railway, and the deprivation and suffering he and his fellow prisoners endured. Includes an epilogue telling of the fates of some other members of the 8th Division.

here is a brief extract...


........ the failure of a carefully planned, determined attempt to escape by Captain Mull, Spr. Bell and Pte. Dickenson.

A few miles north of Moulmein, Dickenson went down with malaria. In accordance with the pre-arranged agreement he dropped out while Mull and Bell went on.

Dickenson was later taken by the Japanese and shot on the spot.

His two companions travelled another 100 miles north before being intercepted by pro-Japanese (Burmese) native police. In the thick jungle Captain Mull was shot in the leg and Bell, realising the game was up refused to leave him.

The native police closed in. They killed Captain Mull and smashed Bell's arm with another shot before even attempting to take them. Both Australians were unarmed.

Bell was brought back to Thanbysizayat three days later. His wounded arm was in a shocking condition. There, he refused to have it dressed or attended to.

“Keep the bandages and dressings for someone who might get a little benefit from them,” he said. “I went into this with my eyes open.’

On the morning of his execution Bell was perfectly composed. He asked that he be not tied to the stake in the usual fashion and that his eyes be not bandaged.

Colonel Nagatomo attended the shooting and even shook hands with Bell, saying, “You are a very brave man.”

Bell (A tall Queenslander) looked down at the Jap and replied, “There are plenty more where I come from.”

He walked slowly to his grave, looked into it, shrugged his broad shoulders, and was shot.

Lest we forget.

[tahaan]

The bridge isn't even the bridge, don't get too excited. Hellfire pass is worth a trip and quite haunting.

The bridge is the bridge. The existing bridge is one of two built and shows damage from allied bombing.

[cpofc]

The bridge isn't even the bridge, don't get too excited. Hellfire pass is worth a trip and quite haunting.

The bridge is the bridge. The existing bridge is one of two built and shows damage from allied bombing.

THE BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI - THE TRUE STORY

The Famous Bridge on the River Kwai is located in Thailand's Kanchanaburi Province, at the City Of Kanchanaburi, which is 128 Klms West of the City of Bangkok.

Many former POWs will scowl at the mere mention of the famous 1957 Hollywood Movie that starred William Holden and Alec Guiness. It is pure Hollywood, distorted, sanitised and tame. However if the movie only accomplished one single thing in its history it is that it kept the memory alive. The memory of one of the darkest chapters in the Allied history of World War II.

There is much more to the Death Railway than just the Bridge - The railway is 415 Klms long and was without question the most remarkable engineering feat, not just of world War Two, but perhaps since the construction of the Panama Canal!

The terrain was entirely inhospitable, unmapped and unexplored, yet the Allied POWs, along with their Native Labour counterparts suffered and died in such large numbers as to enable its completion in the unbelievable time of 16 months! It has always been said that there is one Allied POW dead that lies under every sleeper in its 415 Kilometre length.

For my country, Australia, the Death Railway has become the symbolic monument and heart of the War in the Pacific, December 1941 - August 1945. Whilst Gallipoli, in Turkey, is more symbolic of the Birth of Australia as a free nation and our sacrifice to the 1914-18 War in Europe, the Death Railway and particularly 'Hellfire Pass' ranks second to it as an Australian Pilgrimage and place to be at Dawn on the 25th April every year. - ANZAC DAY.

Ironically, 'The Bridge', which stands out as a world icon to the Death Railway, was located in the city of Kanchanaburi where there was much better conditions for the Allied POWs and therefore a lot less loss of life. In fact only 9 Allied POWs died in its construction. Not so with the Jungle Camps located along its entire 415 Klm length, where loss of life due to starvation and malnourishment, disease, exhaustion, torture, execution, beatings and ill treatment was commonplace and on a massive scale.

Philip John Denton Toosey C.B.E., D.S.O. (PICTURED LEFT) - built bridge number 277 on the Burma-Siam Railway line (aka: The Bridge on the River Kwai) born on 8th December -1904 in Birkenhead, England and died 22 December 1975.

Toosey was born at 8 South Bank, Oxton, Birkenhead. He was educated at home until the age of nine, then at Birkenhead School to the age of thirteen and then at Gresham's School, Norfolk. His father prevented him from going to Cambridge and so he was apprenticed to a firm of Liverpool cotton merchants. In 1927 he was commissioned in an artillery regiment (4th West Lancashire) of the Territorial Army. In 1929 his commanding officer appointed him his assistant at Baring Brothers, merchant bankers. He married Muriel Alexandra (Alex) Eccles on 27 July 1932 and they had two sons and a daughter.

In August 1939 he was mobilized and saw brief action in Belgium in May 1940 before retreating back into France. He was evacuated from Dunkirk. Following a course at the Senior Officers' School, he commanded and trained a home defence battery at Cambridge. In 1941, promoted lieutenant-colonel, he was appointed to command the 135th Hertfordshire Yeomanry regiment. In October 1941, his unit was shipped to the Far East. He was awarded the Distinguished Service Order for heroism during the defence of Singapore. Because of his qualities of leadership, his superiors ordered him on 12 February 1942 to join the evacuation of Singapore, but Toosey refused so that he could remain with his men during their captivity.

Toosey and his men were required (contrary to the Hague Convention) to build railway bridges over the Kwai Yai near where it joins the Kwai Noi to form the Mae Klong in Thailand. (The Mae Klong river above the confluence was renamed the Kwai Yai river in 1960.) This was part of a project to link existing Thai and Burmese railway lines to create a route from Bangkok to Rangoon to support the Japanese occupation of Burma. About a hundred thousand conscripted Asian labourers and 16,000 prisoners of war died on the whole project, which was named the 'Death Railway'.

A camp was established at Tamarkan, which is about five kilometres from Kanchanaburi. In the Tamarkan camp, Toosey worked courageously to ensure that as many as possible of the 2,000 Allied prisoners would survive. He endured regular beatings when he complained of ill-treatment of prisoners, but as a skilled negotiator he was able to win many concessions from the Japanese by convincing them that this would speed the completion of the work. Toosey also organised the smuggling in of food and medicine, working with Boon Pong Sirivejjabhandu. Boon Pong was a Thai merchant who was also a captain in the Free Siamese Army. Boon Pong supplied camps at the southern end of the railway taking great risks and was awarded the George Medal.

He maintained discipline in the camp and, where possible, cleanliness and hygiene. His policy was of unity and equality and so refused to allow a separate officers' mess or officers' accommodation. He also ordered his officers to intervene if necessary to protect the men. For his conduct in the camp, he won the undying respect of his men. He was considered by many to be the outstanding British officer on the railway.

Behind the backs of the Japanese, Toosey did everything possible to delay and sabotage the construction without endangering his men. Refusal to work would have meant instant execution. White ants were collected in large numbers to eat the wooden structures and the concrete was badly mixed. Toosey also helped organise a daring escape, at considerable cost to himself. (In the film the fictional colonel forbids escapes.) The two escaping officers had been given a month's rations and Toosey concealed their escape for 48 hours. After a month the two escapees were recaptured and bayoneted. Toosey was punished for concealing the escape.

Two bridges were built: a temporary wooden bridge (pictured above) and a few months later a permanent steel and concrete bridge which was completed in 1943. At the end of the film the wooden bridge is destroyed by a commando raid. Actually, both bridges were used for two years until they were destroyed by Allied aerial bombing, the steel bridge first in June 1945. (There had been seven previous bombing missions.) The steel bridge has been repaired and is still in use today.

After completion of the steel bridge the majority of fit men were moved to camps further up the line. Toosey was ordered to organize Tamarkan as a hospital, which he did despite difficulties including minimal food and medical supplies. The Japanese considered it the best-run prisoner-of-war camp on the railway and gave him considerable autonomy. In December 1943 he was transferred to command Nong Pladuk camp, and in December 1944 he was moved to the allied officers' camp at Kanchanaburi where he was the liaison officer with the Japanese.

He and some other officers had been separated from his men at Nakhon Nayok camp and was being held there as a hostage when Japan surrendered in August 1945. At that time, Toosey weighed 105 pounds (47 kg). (Before the war he weighed 175 pounds.) Despite his weak state, Toosey insisted on traveling 300 miles (500 km) into the jungle to oversee the liberation of his men.

After the war, Toosey saved the life of Sergeant-Major Saito (not a colonel as in the film). Saito was second in command at the camp and was thought to be not as bad as many of the guards. Toosey spoke up for him and as a result Saito did not stand trial. Over 200 Japanese were hanged for their crimes and many more served long prison sentences. Saito respected Toosey greatly and they corresponded after the war. Saito said that "He showed me what a human being should be and he changed the philosophy of my life." After Toosey died, Saito travelled from Japan to visit the grave. Only after Saito died in 1990, did even his family know that Saito had become a Christian.

After the war Toosey resumed his service with the Territorial Army and was promoted brigadier. He retired from the TA in 1954, and was awarded a CBE in 1955. Toosey also returned to banking with Barings in Liverpool and expanded their services greatly.

He worked for the veterans all his life, and in 1966 became President of the National Federation of Far Eastern Prisoners of War. He refused repeated requests by the veterans to speak out against the film, being much too modest to seek any glory or recognition for himself. Eventually Toosey realised that the public perception was based on the film and so agreed to be interviewed by Professor Peter Davies, providing 48 hours of taped interviews on the understanding that they were not to be published until after Toosey's death. Eventually Davies documented Toosey's achievements in a 1991 book entitled The Man Behind the Bridge (ISBN 048511402X) and a BBC Timewatch programme.

A book by a granddaughter, Julie Summers, The Colonel of Tamarkan, was published in 2005 (ISBN 0743263502).When Alec Guinness won his Oscar for the role as Colonel Nicholson in the film Bridge on the River Kwai nothing could have been further from his mind than the feelings of the real life colonel who, as prisoner of the Japanese in the second world war, was forced to build a bridge over a major river in order to help the Japanese supply route from Thailand to Burma. After all, the role was entirely fictional. It was based on a film which itself was based on a novel by a then little known French writer called Pierre Boulle.

What few knew and fewer still understood was that the story of the bridge on the river kwai was loosely based on a notorious episode in the Second World War. The irony was that whereas in the film Colonel Nicholson had had to help the Japanese to build their bridge, in reality the Japanese were skilled engineers and the main role of the real life colonel, Phil Toosey, was to ensure that the men under his command suffered as little as possible at the hands of their unforgiving captors:

Toosey was a merchant banker in civilian life but had been an active officer in the Territorial Army since 1925. When he was caught up in Singapore, the worst military defeat in British history, he refused to take the easy way out and be evacuated to India but chose to remain with his men.

The Colonel of Tamarkan is 400 pp and has over 90 illustrations, many published for the first time including a photograph of Phil Toosey taken in October 1943 in captivity.

[JAS21]

Its not too difficult to get a bus there. Have a look at Good Times Resort, has excellent reviews and they also have there own travel company which has been going for quite a few years ... just google Good Times Travel Kanachanburi.

We have stayed there twice in the last few months and been impressed both times ... I have no idea if they can arrange transport from BK though.

[BB1955]

Plenty of places to stay and there are a lot of taxis that will take you whereever you want to go . Very doable in two days . We went and stayed four days after the second day we had seen everything and ready to leave .....

[cpofc]

True. But then, The traveller sees what he sees, the tourist sees what he has come to see

years ago (before it became as popular as it is today) I used to spend a couple of weeks at a time there, doing Songkran in K'Buri and then staying on through for ANZAC DAY.

[hellodolly]

Be sure to see the cemeteries they are well laid out and kept up. Each grave has a bronze plaque on it. When we were there they had a group of Thais cleaning each one and putting some sort of preserver on it.

Australia foots the bill for them. Very peaceful In one of them there is a plaque. On it Is a short history a part of it says after the Rail road was built the whole thing was turned over to the Japanese it was the Koreans who had been the guards. He goes on to say their living conditions improved under the Japanese.

The Australians have also built and maintained a very wide and sturdy set of stair ways and ramps down to hells fire pass. You can't help but to wonder if they had to go up and down the hill every day. That would be a real challenge even in good health.

We hear the horror stories but what we don't hear was that the Allies had it better than the Asiaans. There was far more Asians killed than the allies.

[cpofc]

Be sure to see the cemeteries they are well laid out and kept up. Each grave has a bronze plaque on it. When we were there they had a group of Thais cleaning each one and putting some sort of preserver on it.

Australia foots the bill for them. Very peaceful In one of them there is a plaque. On it Is a short history a part of it says after the Rail road was built the whole thing was turned over to the Japanese it was the Koreans who had been the guards. He goes on to say their living conditions improved under the Japanese.

The Australians have also built and maintained a very wide and sturdy set of stair ways and ramps down to hells fire pass. You can't help but to wonder if they had to go up and down the hill every day. That would be a real challenge even in good health.

We hear the horror stories but what we don't hear was that the Allies had it better than the Asiaans. There was far more Asians killed than the allies.

yes but you do really need to understand the major reason for this. Whilst the Asian indentured labour would have been more acclimatised, more used to hardship, and more used to a very bad diet, unlike the military, there was no order, no structure, no discipline, no planning, no education, no medical expertise, no mateship or camaraderie, I.E. When cholera would hit the native labour camps it would all but wipe them out.

A well known former Australian Labor Politician, Tom Uren, and POW on the Railway uses a story in his 'Maiden Speech' to Parliament upon election as a Government Minister, about what happens when a unit breaks down and the values of Australian mateship and egalitarianism etc. (Labor Values of the day) Worth a read of it if you can get hold of it from somewhere.

A force of about 800 Brit POWs marched into the jungle and made camp across a stream from the Australians. From the word go, it was everyman for himself. The officers got the pick of what there was of any stores and equipment etc, then the NCOs, then the grunts if anything was left at all. Every man for himself. A complete breakdown. The law of the jungle ensued. I can't remember the entire speech, only the guts of it. In the Australian Camp everything was allocated to the wounded, sick and dying as a priority and rank did not come into the equation, although discipline was still maintained. Within a short time only 400 brits walked out of that camp, and by the time it was finished only a handful survived.

[tahaan]

yes but you do really need to understand the major reason for this. Whilst the Asian indentured labour would have been more acclimatised, more used to hardship, and more used to a very bad diet, unlike the military, there was no order, no structure, no discipline, no planning, no education, no medical expertise, no mateship or camaraderie, I.E. When cholera would hit the native labour camps it would all but wipe them out.

A well known former Australian Labor Politician, Tom Uren, and POW on the Railway uses a story in his 'Maiden Speech' to Parliament upon election as a Government Minister, about what happens when a unit breaks down and the values of Australian mateship and egalitarianism etc. (Labor Values of the day) Worth a read of it if you can get hold of it from somewhere.

A force of about 800 Brit POWs marched into the jungle and made camp across a stream from the Australians. From the word go, it was everyman for himself. The officers got the pick of what there was of any stores and equipment etc, then the NCOs, then the grunts if anything was left at all. Every man for himself. A complete breakdown. The law of the jungle ensued. I can't remember the entire speech, only the guts of it. In the Australian Camp everything was allocated to the wounded, sick and dying as a priority and rank did not come into the equation, although discipline was still maintained. Within a short time only 400 brits walked out of that camp, and by the time it was finished only a handful survived.

I agree about the need to maintain discipline and structure. Uren was talking about Hintok and the leadership of another hero, Weary Dunlop. His words:

" just before the wet season came in, about 400 Britishers came in out of H Force and for temporary arrangements they had tents. The officers took the best tents, the senior NCOs took the next best and the men got the dregs. And you know, within six weeks less than 50 of those men marched out and less than half of those survived ultimately. They either died of cholera or dysentery and, I said in my maiden speech, that only a creek divided us: on the one side the law of the jungle prevailed and on the other side the principles of socialism."

It's not just an Australian thing as the leadership of Toosey shows. As for setting a fine example, how about that of Cmdr 8 Div, Maj Gen Gordon Bennett? ?

[Waterloo]

As others have said don't take the day trip option way to rushed!

When you do hell fire pass do take plenty of water and a good pair of shoes or boots, not a good idea to do it in flip flops.

The Thai army do an excellent job with the support of australlian money of keeping hell fire pass and the attached museam in excellent condition.

Well worth taking a short trip on the railway, but I wouldn't do the full trip from bkk way to slow.

Don't let anyone tell you none of the bridge dates back to WW2, the film was total bo%*!cks

[prodriver]

Be sure to see the cemeteries they are well laid out and kept up. Each grave has a bronze plaque on it. When we were there they had a group of Thais cleaning each one and putting some sort of preserver on it.

Australia foots the bill for them. Very peaceful In one of them there is a plaque. On it Is a short history a part of it says after the Rail road was built the whole thing was turned over to the Japanese it was the Koreans who had been the guards. He goes on to say their living conditions improved under the Japanese.

The Australians have also built and maintained a very wide and sturdy set of stair ways and ramps down to hells fire pass. You can't help but to wonder if they had to go up and down the hill every day. That would be a real challenge even in good health.

We hear the horror stories but what we don't hear was that the Allies had it better than the Asiaans. There was far more Asians killed than the allies.

Just to put the record straight, it is not only Australia that finances the upkeep of the graves. It is undertaken by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission based in Maidenhead. The participating member countries are Australia, Canada, India, New Zealand, S.Africa and the U.K.

[allyoops]

thanks for putting that right prodiver .i get sick of hearing the ozzies claiming all the glory and slagging off the brits.

i have lived in ozz for 23 years and i must say in general the aussies are a great bunch .there is a certain few though who cannot pass by a dig at the poms.sometimes it is pathetic to listen too.

after all this time and all the suffering is it really necessary to denigrate anyone .

[allyoops]

so its either a day or two trip or a private car .

how much would a car be to get there and onother to get back a day or two later.

[cpofc]

yes but you do really need to understand the major reason for this. Whilst the Asian indentured labour would have been more acclimatised, more used to hardship, and more used to a very bad diet, unlike the military, there was no order, no structure, no discipline, no planning, no education, no medical expertise, no mateship or camaraderie, I.E. When cholera would hit the native labour camps it would all but wipe them out.

A well known former Australian Labor Politician, Tom Uren, and POW on the Railway uses a story in his 'Maiden Speech' to Parliament upon election as a Government Minister, about what happens when a unit breaks down and the values of Australian mateship and egalitarianism etc. (Labor Values of the day) Worth a read of it if you can get hold of it from somewhere.

A force of about 800 Brit POWs marched into the jungle and made camp across a stream from the Australians. From the word go, it was everyman for himself. The officers got the pick of what there was of any stores and equipment etc, then the NCOs, then the grunts if anything was left at all. Every man for himself. A complete breakdown. The law of the jungle ensued. I can't remember the entire speech, only the guts of it. In the Australian Camp everything was allocated to the wounded, sick and dying as a priority and rank did not come into the equation, although discipline was still maintained. Within a short time only 400 brits walked out of that camp, and by the time it was finished only a handful survived.

I agree about the need to maintain discipline and structure. Uren was talking about Hintok and the leadership of another hero, Weary Dunlop. His words:

" just before the wet season came in, about 400 Britishers came in out of H Force and for temporary arrangements they had tents. The officers took the best tents, the senior NCOs took the next best and the men got the dregs. And you know, within six weeks less than 50 of those men marched out and less than half of those survived ultimately. They either died of cholera or dysentery and, I said in my maiden speech, that only a creek divided us: on the one side the law of the jungle prevailed and on the other side the principles of socialism."

It's not just an Australian thing as the leadership of Toosey shows. As for setting a fine example, how about that of Cmdr 8 Div, Maj Gen Gordon Bennett? ?

Yes, that's the Force. H Force. Sorry I couldn't remember the exact figures Oh no, don't get me wrong, as per my article on Toosey. I just wanted to highlight a major cause of the high death rate of the indentured native labor. The terrible H Force situation I just used as an example of when good leadership is absent, and that a breakdown can happen even in something as well ordered as the British Army. I am not bagging you at all. The Railway Man, Eric Lomax. What happened to him was ther esult of 5 of them caught with a Radio at the camp in K'Buri. Either 2 British Officers and Three Australians, or the other way around. As for Bennett, it not unusual for our best soldiers to not be career soldiers. Gen Monash also springs to mind.

I read Russell Braddons, 'The Naked Island Many Years Ago. He is also an Australian former POW. When he had cerebral malaria, which was generally fatal, another Australian Soldier kept him hydrated by fetching and giving him drinking water until he finally got well. Saved his life. Not uncommon on the railway. But.

Braddon survived and returned to Melbourne. A year or two later he received a letter, and a bill. From the man who had kept him from dying. He itemised every Jam Tin of Water he gave him and how much.

Braddon wrote back and said he would be glad to give him the money provided he could do it at peak hour on the steps of Flinders Street Station in full view of the public, along with Press and Cameras!

He never received a reply.

[cpofc]

so its either a day or two trip or a private car .

how much would a car be to get there and onother to get back a day or two later.

No, not a day or two. leave in the morning you'll be there for a late lunch. Although it is the same distance as pattaya, they charge more because a return gfare from K'uri is not guaranteed, for them, where it is by the Taxi Mafia in Pattaya.

Get a cab to Mo Chit, Sai Tai, and get the bus to K'uri. They take not much longer than a cab anyway. Although it has been a few years since I did it by bus. Or get a cab. Any where between 2000-3000 Bht should get you out of trouble.

In the last few years as more people started to go there, the empty cabbies looking for a fare back to the capital, loiter around the front of the Allied War Cemetary.

[salavan]

_{thais are takers}

[hellodolly]

River Kwair just in case you have to tell a Thai you want to go there.

The bridge isn't even the bridge, don't get too excited. Hellfire pass is worth a trip and quite haunting.

exactly

The Australians have built a series of stairs and ramps down to the old rail road bed. It is very sturdy and about 2 meters wide. I am some what handicapped and had to take them one step at a time so it took me longer than the others. How ever it was worth it as I was going back up I could not imagine the builders having to get up and down that hill with no artificial means.

Be sure to take in the cemeteries. They were also built and maintained by the Australian Government. We saw two of them. They were very peaceful and well laid out and maintained at one of them we saw a crew polishing the Bronze plaque's. There was also a Plaque hanging on the entrance to one that related a little of one man's experience. He said that as soon as they completed the work the whole job was handed over to the Japanese and their living conditions improved. Apparently it was Korean guards during the construction.

The bridge itself was just a rail toad bridge probably didn't take that long to build it. I am told it is not the original one any how.

Edit

GD spelling

Edited October 16, 2013 by hellodolly

[tahaan]

[quote name="hellodolly" post="6931667"

The bridge itself was just a rail toad bridge probably didn't take that long to build it. I am told it is not the original one any how.

Edit

GD spelling

It is the real bridge!

The bridge standing today was the second built at K'buri and was brought to Thailand from Java by the Japanese. They had already built a timber bridge that was used while construction of the second was under way. Both were regularly bombed by the allies during the latter stages of the war and damage can still be seen on the original metal spans of the remaining bridge.

A visit must include a trip on the railway over the Wampo viaduct and on to Namtok where you can get a bus on to Hellfire Pass. The last time I travelled on it I think we payed over 300 B on the outward trip on a train full of tourists but only around 10 on the way back because the tourists on their organised tours had got off to return by road leaving the train to the Thais.

The cemeteries were not built by the Australians. Of the two in K'buri the most moving is at Chunkai over the river and the site of the original hospital camp burial ground. I think there may be a reciprocal arrangement in place with the UK where Australia manages cemeteries in Asia and the UK looks after Australian graves in Europe and Africa but don't quote me.

The Japanese interpretor in the book and soon to be released film, The Railway Man worked for the allied team recovering POW bodies from the up country railway construction camps for re burial in the three Commonwealth cemeteries on the railway after the Jap surrender.

[David48]

I've not been there, but are photos my sister took ...

.

[arminbkk]

I started a thread on the Travel Forum where I also asked about travel to and staying in Kanchanaburi.

I got some helpful replies there.

But does anyone know of decent reasonably priced (i.e. under THB 1,500 p/night) hotels in Kanchanaburi,

close to the relevant sites, from where one can book tours or arrange transport to the sites?

[cpofc]

I started a thread on the Travel Forum where I also asked about travel to and staying in Kanchanaburi.

I got some helpful replies there.

But does anyone know of decent reasonably priced (i.e. under THB 1,500 p/night) hotels in Kanchanaburi,

close to the relevant sites, from where one can book tours or arrange transport to the sites?

River Kwai Hotel, is easy walking distance. (has a good live band and restaurant at the entrance) There are numerous tourist services you can suss out on Mae Nam Kwae Road. Do you need a hotel? Some of the Gusethouses on Mae Nam Kwae Road are excellent and you are right where you need to be.

[JAS21]

I started a thread on the Travel Forum where I also asked about travel to and staying in Kanchanaburi.

I got some helpful replies there.

But does anyone know of decent reasonably priced (i.e. under THB 1,500 p/night) hotels in Kanchanaburi,

close to the relevant sites, from where one can book tours or arrange transport to the sites?

River Kwai Hotel, is easy walking distance. (has a good live band and restaurant at the entrance) There are numerous tourist services you can suss out on Mae Nam Kwae Road. Do you need a hotel? Some of the Gusethouses on Mae Nam Kwae Road are excellent and you are right where you need to be.

I thought that I had already told you ..Good Times Resort, basically brand new and very friendly about 1000Baht/night and they also have their own travel company ... called I think Good Times Travel ... and they speak excellent English..

We always. in the past. stayed at the Felix but in future will stay at Good Times Resort ... it's frequently full so going on chance is a risk. Booking dot com have it. .. I also have their phone number but you won't get it any cheaper by booking direct ... PM me if you want the number.

By the way the travel company has been established about 12 years

Edited October 17, 2013 by JAS21