Help Needed Between The Cultures

[marshbags]

We have a 12 year old daughter and she is always getting mixed up due to her mother, Thai and me, English giving her different guidance.

Communication is a big problem even though our daughter speaks and understands both langauges.

I am constantly trying to explain that we have different up bringings and therefore sometimes our views seem to be miles apart.

It is an ongoing problem and causes unecessary unrest in the home and confussion

I admit i cannot speak enough Thai due to problems with the tones and sounds so i cannot always explain fully my way to do different things as against what my wife thinks.

I always get mixed up and the older i get the more difficult it is to remember most of them and pick the language up.

My wife on the other hand speaks and understands most English so we communicate this way in our home.

Patience is needed i know but i cannot come to terms with some of cross culture differences and our daughter seems to play on this situation and plays us against each other.

( Mama says this, Papa says that ect.) and gets angry with us.

A typical 12 year old i reckon, but now old enough to understand and show consideration on the differences....... Is she ?

Some advice and new imput much appreciated please to enable our lives to be a bit more peaceful and content.

We stop her privilidges as a punishment in varying degrees by the way but she now seems to not care and adapts accordingly.

marshbags

Edited April 27, 2006 by marshbags

[sylvafern]

I can't give much advice as my son is only 18 months old but I can forsee this happening in my case too. Now that our son is starting to become his own independent person we have differing opinions on what counts as 'being naughty' and how best to deal with it. One thing I try to do is stick by my partner if he's already sent him to the 'naughty spot' or whatever so that my son doesn't see we feel differently about something, and then talk to my partner afterwards about it and try and agree on the best way to deal with certain types of behaviour. Interested to hear what other people have done in their cases.

[wolf5370]

My 6 y/o tries this little game. Asks mummy "Can I have a buscuit", mummy tells her to wait until after dinner. She comes in to me and asks the same question - hoping I will give the opposite answer and her excuse would be that Daddy said she could have it.

Therefore, if Mummy is in, I always start with "What did Mummy say?" - she either says "Nothing" (i.e. I haven't asked her yet" or the anser she was given (lieing would be too risky a venture for her). If the former, I say "Ask Mummy" , the latter, I say "Well there you go then". Works well for us.

Sometimes it happens the other way around and I say no, but Mummy says 'yes'. If I find out, then I grass her up to my wife in front of her. She usually gets a 'look' then from Mummy that makes her feel ashamed.

At 6 I haven't got as far as some of the problems a 12 y/o may have. My wife was not allowed a boyfriend until she was 20, and then we were chaperoned. I would think if she, at 12 say, came to me and asked if I would take her and Billy-Bob to the cinema for their date, there coukld be a sticky situation. I guess I would speak to Mummy about it and aim for chaperoned kissless cinema trip. Whatever, I'm sure they'd be tears somewhere.

The best advice I could give to this situation would be consider if your wife's view, assuming contradicary to your's, was worse for your daughter than yours. If so, then talk to your wife about it and get an understanding. If, howvere, her decision - 'no ear piercing until 16' etc - does her no real harm, then go with the flow. Most Thais kids have better manners than most Western kids, so something is going right. With luck, this should give you the best of both worlds (cultures) and will end in fewer tears (remember you will always get tears from the kids at some point, she wants to be an adult before she is legally or physically mature enough for it - that's life).

Good luck

[greenwanderer108]

I'm only a parent of 3 weeks now but I forsee all the great times to come...

Perhaps, for your daughter to truly come to terms with you and your upbringing/background, she should experience it first hand. Has she any relatives back in farangland...i.e. couzins, grandparents, etc..

Whenever I had problems/misunderstanding similar to what you described with my pops, he would send me to stay with grandpa for the summer...That might bring in a greater appreciation if she is in fact only around Thai culture/norms all her 12 years.

[BKK90210]

I think the most powerful role model in a child's life is the parents. Children will mirror what they are exposed to. If they are exposed to stress, tension, frustration, or anger, they will mirror that behaviorally as well as internally. They reflect what they experience.

When Disciplining Your Kid, make sure you sit down and discuss the problems in length with your wife and come up only one agreed set of , rules and consequence beforehand…otherwise you will confuse your child. It's crucial that your child knows that her mama and papa are going to do the same thing. If you explain what a punishment will be, and then don't act on it, you will have less credibility the next time.

1) Be Realistic in Your Expectations of Your Child.

Don't ask your child to do anything he/she cannot do. Make sure that what you are asking of your child is a behavior within his or her reach — if it's not, your child will get frustrated and be less likely to listen to you in the future.

2) Give Your Children Predictable Consequences.

It's important for your child to understand that the same result will come from the same behavior. Make your child feel like he/she has control over their life: If your child behaves in "Way A," they need to be sure that they will always get "Consequence B." If he/she can count on the rules staying the same, they're more likely to abide by them.

3) Define Your Child's Currency.

Find out what your child values — it could be a toy, a particular activity, or even a privilege like getting to stay awake to a particular hour Once you understand what your child values, then use them as a form of discipline.

4) Use Child-Level Logic.

Explain your values in terms your child can understand. Take the time to explain the reasons behind why you are asking he/she to behave in certain ways — if your child understands the kinds of behavior you'd like them to avoid, they're more likely to apply that reasoning to different situations, instead of learning to stop one behavior at a time.

[marshbags]

I think the most powerful role model in a child's life is the parents. Children will mirror what they are exposed to. If they are exposed to stress, tension, frustration, or anger, they will mirror that behaviorally as well as internally. They reflect what they experience.

When Disciplining Your Kid, make sure you sit down and discuss the problems in length with your wife and come up only one agreed set of , rules and consequence beforehand…otherwise you will confuse your child. It's crucial that your child knows that her mama and papa are going to do the same thing. If you explain what a punishment will be, and then don't act on it, you will have less credibility the next time.

1) Be Realistic in Your Expectations of Your Child.

Don't ask your child to do anything he/she cannot do. Make sure that what you are asking of your child is a behavior within his or her reach — if it's not, your child will get frustrated and be less likely to listen to you in the future.

2) Give Your Children Predictable Consequences.

It's important for your child to understand that the same result will come from the same behavior. Make your child feel like he/she has control over their life: If your child behaves in "Way A," they need to be sure that they will always get "Consequence B." If he/she can count on the rules staying the same, they're more likely to abide by them.

3) Define Your Child's Currency.

Find out what your child values — it could be a toy, a particular activity, or even a privilege like getting to stay awake to a particular hour Once you understand what your child values, then use them as a form of discipline.

4) Use Child-Level Logic.

Explain your values in terms your child can understand. Take the time to explain the reasons behind why you are asking he/she to behave in certain ways — if your child understands the kinds of behavior you'd like them to avoid, they're more likely to apply that reasoning to different situations, instead of learning to stop one behavior at a time.

................................................................................

...........................................................

Thank you for all your imput and replies, and it certainlty helps to read others have similar experiences and i certainly take on board your much valued support.

She has been to England and is always explained of actions and why, how it effects others and consequences regarding doing things wrong.

I in particular spend lots of time guiding her to do the right thing and to always consider how it effects others.

We really do have the above ground rules for discipline and right and wrong and do so because we love her.

There is no point in getting mad and frustrated ect. and telling children off without first trying to explain and get them to be more social conscious and aware of there actions.

The only one of the above that is a problem is No.3

All the rest of the observations are mirrowed practically word for word on actions in our home ect., also it is a long time, plus several warnings before we get upset, especially after all these years.

Sure she gets upset initially when we do this but then just accepts it and does the tasks set as a form of punishment.

Reading, writing stories, writting what she thinks of herself, and our reasons for being upset.

Ect.Ect.

Incidently another sad thing is she does her best to upset us when we go out and it now comes to the point where it,s difficult to keep giving her last chances and we prefer to stay home as it causes less stress and upset.

How many of you have been out and your children have thrown a tantrum and been really naughty in front of others, practically all i think.

It is very difficult, especially when they are older and we have to act diplomatically to minimise the drawing attention to her behaviour.

How do you deal with this apart from staying home and finding other ways to occupy her time.

Anyway we will continue showing our love while trying to make our family lives better and guiding her for her future, please someone up there, may she change for her own benefit if nothing else and have a safe and happy life.

Again thanks to everyone and keep smiling

marshbags

P.S. How strange that George was posting the good news on our new forum while we where actually having one of these moments. ????????????????????????????????

Edited April 29, 2006 by marshbags

[greenwanderer108]

Incidently another sad thing is she does her best to upset us when we go out and it now comes to the point where it,s difficult to keep giving her last chances and we prefer to stay home as it causes less stress and upset.

How many of you have been out and your children have thrown a tantrum and been really naughty in front of others, practically all i think.

It is very difficult, especially when they are older and we have to act diplomatically to minimise the drawing attention to her behaviour.

Reminds me of some European condom ad I saw...Zazoo condoms or something. I tried to upload it to the thread, but it's a video file which had an error.

Anyway, it was the one where daddy took little boy to grocery store and he wanted the sweeties but dad stood his ground not letting him have it....and bam the biggest public fit....hillarious

Oh...the times to come

To spank or not to spank...for that is the question

[sbk]

I think it may also be difficult because your wife is teaching her alot of Thai cultural values surrounding the expected behavior of women, while you have different values and cultural expectations.

For instance, in most Thai families I have seen, the daughter is expected to stay and help the mother with the housework, fulfill "traditional" female roles while the son is not required to do any such thing. Whereas you, most likely, would expect both to help out and don't have such traditional roles in mind for your daughter.

I suspect she is getting mixed signals about what is expected and is probably confused.

As for throwing temper tantrums when you want to go out, well, it seems to me she is asserting her control over the family behavior and by giving in you are reinforcing her control. Best solution? Leave her home while you go out.

[bina]

sbk right on the spot....

there are lots of good info about behavior modelling without all the negative punishment things... u might look some up... it does work...

not using things for rewards but ignoring bad behavior, responding positively to good behavior, setting reasonable limits with a way out for neither side to lose face (negotiable actions)....

i had to deal with a 12 yr old daughter geting migraines every time i went out for more then ten minute alone... conclusion, i would rush back home, pay lots of attention etc for migraine (a reward)... i learned to spend more time with her, take her with me to many things that might even bore her until she decided on her own that she would prefer to stay at home w/o me , and she didnt need the migrains to get my attention... migraines tapered off (also due to hormones of pre teenager but they occurred every evening at bedtime surprise surprise)....

just example but kids are good at minipulating and playing two sides against eachother...

forgot to mention, my ex lives near me with large extended family israeli, and i am american so we also have cross cultural 'head ons' ... daddy is more discipline oriented, what he says must be done, i am more democratic and discuss things, more laid back... but we came to agreements about where to draw lines (dating, night time curfews, school work, etc)... in beginning the 12 yr old played many games... if she comes running to me on daddy's day because daddy doesnt allow her to spend the night at a friend, well, too bad, i send her back, and its reciprocal...

remember, 12 yr old girls are pre pubescent and hormonal they are girl/women, but to thai, they are already woman only and should be doing dutys at home etc, but thai may spoil more in some ways (what u consider spoiling)

Edited April 29, 2006 by bina

[BKK90210]

Don't be concerned with being the "cool dad" in public. It's your job to be a parent, not a friend while showing ability to be both loving and firm at the same time.

I would speak or discuss to your 12 yrs old, about this problem, like she's an adult and she may act like one. Sit down with her beforehand and negotiate a set of rules and regulations “When Going Out” that are realistic and that you can both live up to.

Either tell her to stay home next time if she misbehaved in public again….or when she makes the effort to break this negative behavior, be sure to acknowledge the change by giving her rewards like more freedom to do things (teens love this!), thus showing her that it is possible to rebuild trust again. This positive reinforcement will encourage her to keep up the good behavior.

[skylar]

You don't specify what kind of issues she is bringing up, so we can't pin it down to being a cross cultural problem or just a tween problem.

It also depends on how your daughter is being socially conditioned - she is going to clash with your expectations of her behaviour much more if she in being brought up in Thai society as opposed to expat or farang society.