Owning a Minimart/Supermarket

[oogster8]

Bball1 great you had great results. But please stop with pie in the sky shit. Op doesnt have 40 years to build up a portfolio of re investments. His family hungry now!

[bocceball1]

Bball1 great you had great results. But please stop with pie in the sky shit. Op doesnt have 40 years to build up a portfolio of re investments. His family hungry now!

I realize now that you may not be the sharpest tool in the box or the brightest light in the sky......But if you take the time to read ALL my posts you will see that, yes I did go off topic, if only because I responding directly to another post....

BUT I have been IMHO trying to give the OP constructive advise (something you should try)..on what to do in his situation!

[oogster8]

This whole thread is silly to tell you the truth. Only value is entertainment. How is anyone to give advice -no mention of baht involved, experience of op, etc. All i see is shit..............lol.

Whats wrong with telling familee members to go get jobbs!

[davejones]

Bball1 great you had great results. But please stop with pie in the sky shit. Op doesnt have 40 years to build up a portfolio of re investments. His family hungry now!

Yes, exactly my thoughts. What's the point of coming up with an investment that takes 40 years to come good. You can't get 10% return on that today, so there's no point mentioning it.

[davejones]

This whole thread is silly to tell you the truth. Only value is entertainment. How is anyone to give advice -no mention of baht involved, experience of op, etc. All i see is shit..............lol.

Whats wrong with telling familee members to go get jobbs!

We don't k now anything about the family. Maybe they're not able to earn much and a market would be a better idea in the circumstances. But we don't know anything about his family, so there's not much point speculating.

[davejones]

Bball1 great you had great results. But please stop with pie in the sky shit. Op doesnt have 40 years to build up a portfolio of re investments. His family hungry now!

I realize now that you may not be the sharpest tool in the box or the brightest light in the sky......But if you take the time to read ALL my posts you will see that, yes I did go off topic, if only because I responding directly to another post....

BUT I have been IMHO trying to give the OP constructive advise (something you should try)..on what to do in his situation!

Nothing constructive at all in advising op to start a 40-year investment that may or may not work. To be honest, you should be getting much more than 10% return on an investment like yours if it's 40 years old. If I work out ROI like you do, then I'm getting over almost 30% return on my investment of 13 years. So where did you go wrong. I had others that I made 25% from day one, but those days are gone.

By your own admission you're making 3%. You could sell up and make more money elsewhere, so why are you settling for 3%?

[bocceball1]

Bball1 great you had great results. But please stop with pie in the sky shit. Op doesnt have 40 years to build up a portfolio of re investments. His family hungry now!

I realize now that you may not be the sharpest tool in the box or the brightest light in the sky......But if you take the time to read ALL my posts you will see that, yes I did go off topic, if only because I responding directly to another post....

BUT I have been IMHO trying to give the OP constructive advise (something you should try)..on what to do in his situation!

Nothing constructive at all in advising op to start a 40-year investment that may or may not work. To be honest, you should be getting much more than 10% return on an investment like yours if it's 40 years old. If I work out ROI like you do, then I'm getting over almost 30% return on my investment of 13 years. So where did you go wrong. I had others that I made 25% from day one, but those days are gone.

By your own admission you're making 3%. You could sell up and make more money elsewhere, so why are you settling for 3%?

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”

Albert Einstein

I hope your drunk because you really can't be as stupid as you sound.....

First off I NEVER advised OP to start a 40 year investment

As for the 3% THATS what an investor would get NOW if they bought the property from me....I bought in for $25,000 40 years ago...I now make $4500/month income and which makes my stake now worth $1,500,000 .....You figure out my return....OH I forgot....you never learned math.

[davejones]

It doesn't matter what you made. It doesn't help the OP that you turned 25K into 1.5M in 40 years. Almost anyone could have done that in the last 40 years. How does that help the OP? It's completely irrelevant.

My maths is great thanks very much.

[bocceball1]

Doodlejones and Mccw

Not sure where either of you get the 3% ....Try READING

I wrote earlier

"Your entirely correct! This property if sold today would probably only provide a 3% return.....but since I been an owner for over 40 years in it ....its basicly my retirement income.

The lower the return the less the risk usually.

As you have stated you have to do your research and "due diligence"

READ that again "If sold today would probably only provide a 3% return"....That means that THE NEW BUYER would get that return on HIS investment

Ignorance is bliss they say....so you two must be really happy

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. Topic is about the possibility of opening a shop in the Kalasin area of Isaan, not about rental properties in the USA or UK.

[mccw]

For any investor , in Thailand or elsewhere, it is valuable to compare the return to what the current value is , because today's price is what can be realised and so by extension then that money could fetch better actual returns at today's values else where , ie equity value is making 3% or 9% at today's prices. Simple

[bocceball1]

For any investor , in Thailand or elsewhere, it is valuable to compare the return to what the current value is , because today's price is what can be realised and so by extension then that money could fetch better actual returns at today's values else where , ie equity value is making 3% or 9% at today's prices. Simple

It must be nice to have such a "simple" view of investments ....I will keep brief why my investment (and the return by extension) is not as simple as you think (that is if you are)

First off.....Yes ...the BUYER will get a 3% return on what they Pay....BUT what they pay is NOT what I get....I have to pay a real estate commission, capital gains tax,

recapture of simple income (more taxes to pay at 50% rate)....all of which reduces the amount received by me to the point where the return on said money received is over 10% ...AND having a property that is 5 star with almost NO risk returning over 10% with cost of living increases built in is more than I could ask for in retirement ......Hope you all do as well ....but I think not.

As for OP ...At least he is thinking now about his situation for which I wish him luck....As I said before I believe he needs a "gimmicK" to get people to stop....Giant Dinosaur, Pink Psychedelic elephant...whatever....Maybe a western themed building, or a Castle look with a moat ....whatever....get the people to stop then sell them ...coffee, souvenirs, market goods, sodas, food (restaurant)...etc.......THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX

“This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movement of small green pieces of paper, which was odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.”

Edited October 14, 2013 by bocceball1

[bocceball1]

To the OP....just a thought

I've seen dozens of companies falter by going for the immediate payoffs rather than long-term growth. In three hours at work, you could get something substantial accomplished, and if you failed to accomplish it you felt the pain right away. If you spent three hours at home with your family, it feels like you haven't done a thing, and if you skipped it nothing happened. So you spend more and more time at the office, on high-margin, quick-yield tasks, and you believe that your staying away from home for the sake of your family. I see many people tell themselves that they can divide their lives into stages, spending the first part pushing forward their careers, and imagining that at some future point they will spend time with their families----only to find that by then their families were gone.

Just a thought.....Balance.

Edited October 14, 2013 by bocceball1

[brit1984]

To the OP....just a thought

I've seen dozens of companies falter by going for the immediate payoffs rather than long-term growth. In three hours at work, you could get something substantial accomplished, and if you failed to accomplish it you felt the pain right away. If you spent three hours at home with your family, it feels like you haven't done a thing, and if you skipped it nothing happened. So you spend more and more time at the office, on high-margin, quick-yield tasks, and you believe that your staying away from home for the sake of your family. I see many people tell themselves that they can divide their lives into stages, spending the first part pushing forward their careers, and imagining that at some future point they will spend time with their families----only to find that by then their families were gone.

Just a thought.....Balance.

Maybe I am just misunderstanding your intellect again due to me youth but this post seems irrelevant / nonsensical to me.

Did you sleep ok last night?

[bocceball1]

To the OP....just a thought

I've seen dozens of companies falter by going for the immediate payoffs rather than long-term growth. In three hours at work, you could get something substantial accomplished, and if you failed to accomplish it you felt the pain right away. If you spent three hours at home with your family, it feels like you haven't done a thing, and if you skipped it nothing happened. So you spend more and more time at the office, on high-margin, quick-yield tasks, and you believe that your staying away from home for the sake of your family. I see many people tell themselves that they can divide their lives into stages, spending the first part pushing forward their careers, and imagining that at some future point they will spend time with their families----only to find that by then their families were gone.

Just a thought.....Balance.

Maybe I am just misunderstanding your intellect again due to me youth but this post seems irrelevant / nonsensical to me.

Did you sleep ok last night?

No offence taken........and yes ...its probably your youth...No problem, I will try to explain how it relates....

Op is living in the Middle east for 3 years ("spending the first part pushing forward their careers, and imagining that at some future point they will spend time with the family")

I was just pointing out that sometimes we spend TOO MUCH TIME trying to achieve security for the family when all the family wants is YOU!

And if we wait to long to realize that ....it all disappears...(ie the family is gone)

sometimes its best to just ignore that which you don't know rather than declaring your ignorance!

Edited October 14, 2013 by bocceball1

[mccw]

Bocca

What should be simple but appears incredibly difficult for you is calculating return on current values. If that 1,5 million dollars is real and not imagined then you have it locked up in the real estate which is yielding 4500/ 3% gross before tax. That 1,5 million is real money that you have; not just money the next guy buying it off you would have to spend to see "his" return of three %, its your equity and your return right now.

That's my last attempt to explain.

I made the same mistake for about 2 years. Then realised if I sold at the value of the day and repositioned I could make even more.

Good your happy and want a low risk simple life; but yours is a less than 3% net return while if you used my services for example I could make you triple that net by investing in higher yielding properties and by going international and spreading you tax liability / threshold and allowances / brackets, you can pay less tax and keep more that way too. The idea of eggs all in 1 basket is not really low risk either; diversifying location and currencies would be what I would do/ am doing myself.

Chock dee

[khwaibah]

This is what Big C is building for the smaller towns. This Big C Market is in Prasat (population 15k+-) just south of Surin (population 50K +-).

.

[mccw]

Throwing the word scam about is very rude. I explained already what I am only just starting to think to offer and it is nothing at all scam like.

From your first post you were rude to all and sundry with an unpleasant manner and your 40year old investment has nothing to do with the OPs position at all, why did you even bring it up? Just fancied a spot of boasting which back fired in to a face loss realisation that you can't calculate returns properly; now your throwing a bit of tantrum; diddums.

On the other hand mine and others suggestions of what can be achieved today at today's prices and returns is 100% relevant to the OP. Pointing out your wrong view of 10% return instead of your real world under 3% is also relevant for the OP and others as an example of how costly this incorrect view can be and how if retiring in Thailand with perhapse only 1 property yielding so low return they would be better off repositioning to make triple that. Double or triple the difference is not a trivial amount for most people.

Edited October 14, 2013 by mccw

[mccw]

This is what Big C is building for the smaller towns. This Big C Market is in Prasat (population 15k+-) just south of Surin (population 50K +-).

.

The medium sized tescos springing up everywhere in the north also. Really the supermarket business is best left to the big boys I think. Economies of scale etc, hard to compete.

[oogster8]

To the OP....just a thought

I've seen dozens of companies falter by going for the immediate payoffs rather than long-term growth. In three hours at work, you could get something substantial accomplished, and if you failed to accomplish it you felt the pain right away. If you spent three hours at home with your family, it feels like you haven't done a thing, and if you skipped it nothing happened. So you spend more and more time at the office, on high-margin, quick-yield tasks, and you believe that your staying away from home for the sake of your family. I see many people tell themselves that they can divide their lives into stages, spending the first part pushing forward their careers, and imagining that at some future point they will spend time with their families----only to find that by then their families were gone.

Just a thought.....Balance.

Maybe I am just misunderstanding your intellect again due to me youth but this post seems irrelevant / nonsensical to me.

Did you sleep ok last night?

No offence taken........and yes ...its probably your youth...No problem, I will try to explain how it relates....

Op is living in the Middle east for 3 years ("spending the first part pushing forward their careers, and imagining that at some future point they will spend time with the family")

I was just pointing out that sometimes we spend TOO MUCH TIME trying to achieve security for the family when all the family wants is YOU!

And if we wait to long to realize that ....it all disappears...(ie the family is gone)

sometimes its best to just ignore that which you don't know rather than declaring your ignorance!

You into comedy now. No offense as i dont know dynamics of family but i doubt anyone other than wife wants a foreigner around unless he is an atm!

Lets get real now!

He wants them to fend for themselves once he quits his middle east gig. You figgre it out!

Personally i think this guy is doomed.

[metisdead]

Off topic bickering posts and replies have been removed.

[mccw]

To the OP

Motel or workers accommodation + coffee and fruit trees on all that land. Safer than perishable goods and stock, logistics etc problems that a supermarket would have.

[rgs2001uk]

To the OP....just a thought

I've seen dozens of companies falter by going for the immediate payoffs rather than long-term growth. In three hours at work, you could get something substantial accomplished, and if you failed to accomplish it you felt the pain right away. If you spent three hours at home with your family, it feels like you haven't done a thing, and if you skipped it nothing happened. So you spend more and more time at the office, on high-margin, quick-yield tasks, and you believe that your staying away from home for the sake of your family. I see many people tell themselves that they can divide their lives into stages, spending the first part pushing forward their careers, and imagining that at some future point they will spend time with their families----only to find that by then their families were gone.

Just a thought.....Balance.

Maybe I am just misunderstanding your intellect again due to me youth but this post seems irrelevant / nonsensical to me.

Did you sleep ok last night?

No offence taken........and yes ...its probably your youth...No problem, I will try to explain how it relates....

Op is living in the Middle east for 3 years ("spending the first part pushing forward their careers, and imagining that at some future point they will spend time with the family")

I was just pointing out that sometimes we spend TOO MUCH TIME trying to achieve security for the family when all the family wants is YOU!

And if we wait to long to realize that ....it all disappears...(ie the family is gone)

sometimes its best to just ignore that which you don't know rather than declaring your ignorance!

You into comedy now. No offense as i dont know dynamics of family but i doubt anyone other than wife wants a foreigner around unless he is an atm!

Lets get real now!

He wants them to fend for themselves once he quits his middle east gig. You figgre it out!

Personally i think this guy is doomed.

Lets go back to the OPs original post where he states,

I need to start a decent family business since I plan to retire from my work in the Middle East in another 3yrs time and join my family in Thailand and this is the only thing that in the long run can grant me a permanent residency in the country.

At best the OP is misinformed, at worst he is being led up the garden path, only the OP can answer.

As has been pointed out there are other options available to him.

I have worked in the ME and have sat in snack bars and listened to the utter crap the Old China Hands talk, usually go by the nickname of "Bangkok Bob", I know for a fact the same idiots are still there talking the same crap they were 10 years ago.

I dont know what type of work the OP is involved with, but when he says retirement, is that due to age or a personal choice.

I would like to think he has least a plan B, and thay may well include going back to the ME if things go tits up here.

Getting employment in the ME these days isnt as easy as it once was, I personally knows guys that had to wait months and some cases years to get back, those were guys who came here to set up a business and live the good life.

Seeing as the OP hasnt been back we can only speculate, only he can fill in the missing details.

The least the OP should do is head over to the visa form and read up on PR or failing that seek legal advice here in Thailand.

I sure as heck wouldnt be listening to the wise ones in the snack bar, or to family members upcountry.

Up to him as they say.

[scobie redux]

I think the phrase permanent residency has caused confusion in the thread. My sense is that we are reading it as the legal defifnition, and he simply means he is looking for advice on the sort of business that will let him reside here permanently.

there is a difference.

As for the supermarket idea, sounds tough to me. A lot of work. Low margins. Cut-throat competition and horrendous start-up costs with too much tied up in working capital.

[h90]

How about a coffee shop....Coffee Today etc.? kinda like a rest stop thing! Won't have to worry about the high inventory costs or the low margins (which is one of the problems with a market). The big stores (Tesco and Big C) make up for it in volume.

Good luck though

Why not have a small supermarket where you can get a nice coffee as well?

[h90]

I think the phrase permanent residency has caused confusion in the thread. My sense is that we are reading it as the legal defifnition, and he simply means he is looking for advice on the sort of business that will let him reside here permanently.

there is a difference.

As for the supermarket idea, sounds tough to me. A lot of work. Low margins. Cut-throat competition and horrendous start-up costs with too much tied up in working capital.

And someone honest must stay all the time in the supermarket. Else equal customer and staff stealing half the things. In combination you loose money and would be better of without working.

[sd_cruze]

Thank you everybody for your posts, there was a lot of questions asked and I hope I can provide most of the answers.

Firstly why a P.R. & not go for citizenship?

I am an Indian, as far as I’m aware my country does not allow holding dual passport. I have properties back in India which I do not want to risk in loosing if I change passports, but yes I would like to settle down in Thailand,

My wife & child are Thai citizens currently living in Thailand, I am living/working in the Middle East as an expatriate. So the plan is to live with the family in Thailand.

Why do business?

Now it's because of my passport (Indian) I will not find a decent work in Thailand to support my family, have to accept the facts.....Thailand is not very friendly/supportive to us Indians therefore doing business seems like the only option left., I have had previous experience in working in major supermarket during my younger years as a college student however that was many years ago, but my current experience in the Supply Chain & Logistics will be advantageous.

Someone mentioned about a coffee shop?

Why not have a coffee spot inside the supermarket, also can rent out a small corner area for it...

Retirement visa / married visa?

I have been on married visa since last 7yrs, with it allows you to only visit the Kingdom under multiple entry rules. Currently am 37yrs old and my plan is simple, I want to live Thailand by the time I turn 40, can't work so need to start up a business which can earn me a decent living.

About the business

Please try to understand that Tesco / Big C / Tops super etc. are all major players in this industry and they are completely out of my league, so I am not even thinking in such high levels.

My plan is to have something within 1 Rai for the starting, later can extend depends on the business growth.

My family can be a part of front line, but it will be myself running the operations. (Keeping in mind the 60/40% rule of expat owners)

Thank you all once again for expressing your thoughts and views.

Keep the posts coming though as I would love to read some more.

Best regards

Stephen

[oogster8]

You seem to be a very intelligent INDIAN. Please forget your mini mart idea and go in another direction. Segway-how can there be 20-25 Indian tailor shops operating retail store fronts between Nana and Asok bts stations. Is there that much business or are they fronts for nefarious businesse going on in back?

Edited October 15, 2013 by oogster8

[mccw]

SD Cruz

I'm sure if you have this info in the first then a lot of the negative comments would not be coming on so strong. I still think its a risky and hard buisness and there are easier ways to make money. But- You have experience and logistics and supply chain training, so I'd say you are a rare case and can probably make a go of it. You realise its a new work for you and not just a set up and sit back like many retirees tin pot ideas.

Good luck to you sir.

[brit1984]

sd_cruze - not sure what you mean about limited business opportunities for Indians - plenty of successful Indian / Thai-Indian entrepreneurs and also working in corporate jobs up to CEO/CFO/MD level

i recommend you set up a consultancy offering your services - if you base yourself in bangkok you will have plenty of opportunities to make just as much money as your supermarket idea (probably much more) but with much less effort and much much less investment / risk

you can register a company, get some business cards / pitch materials printed and put down a deposit on a small office downtown for ~100,000 baht, with ongoing overheads ~30,000 baht/month (compared to +10,000,000 upfront to build and stock a minimart and ongoing overheads +200,000 baht/month)