Where are you on Maslov's Pyramid?

[StreetCowboy]

Perhaps a better question would be "Where are you on Sisyphus' hill?"

[MILT]

[kirk0233]

Maslow modified his hierarchy in 1969 to include self-trancendence.

A Rectified Version of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs
Motivational level Description of person at this level

Self-transcendence Seeks to further a cause beyond the self and to experience
a communion beyond the boundaries of the self through peak experience
Self-actualization Seeks fulfillment of personal potential.
Esteem needs Seeks esteem through recognition or achievement.
Belongingness and love needs Seeks affiliation with a group.
Safety needs Seeks security through order and law. Physiological
(survival) needs Seeks to obtain the basic necessities of life.

A rectified version of Maslow’s hierarchy includes the top line of Table 1, self-transcendence.
The implications of this change in Maslow’s thought must not be underestimated. The earlier
model positions the highest form of motivational development at the level of the well adjusted,
differentiated, and fulfilled individual self or ego. The later model places the highest
form of human development at a transpersonal level, where the self/ego and its needs are transcended.

[maybefitz]

I have always been a fan of the psychological analysis contained in Maslow's Hierarchy. Self awareness, (Buddhist 'Dharma') is something I'm working on, and is consistent with the self-esteem level of the pyramid.

I have only learnt of this since coming to Thailand, so to answer the Op's question - yes, I have improved living here in Thailand. To actually enjoy moments of serenity, no hassle, no significant problems, to love and be loved - these are happening to me now on a regular basis, So, self-actualisation is where I am at the moment. I've always said, that this is what those fellas walking round in yellow sheets are looking for - I maintain it's possible, nay, more likely by living a good life outside of some wat.

[Emdog]

Just a couple of observations. As you move up on the scale, it is not like the lower levels are forgotten completely, just that you have taken care of them enough to be comfortable to move on to the next level of struggle or whatever you want to call. I like to think I am on self actualization level: being an old fart and not having to hustle for a living helps. And I have a good network of friends here and abroad.

Where I think lots of farangs get into peril regarding Thai ladies is that the farangs may be seeking community/love level, but the girls are on the safety/survival level, which are two very different goals. She is with you for the money, safety and survival, and you are foolish enough to think she is with you for that luxury item known in the West as "love".

[flyingdoc]

Yes, the bloke with the dog certainly was Pavlov!

I think moving to Thailand could involve a move up the pyramid, but would it be the same sized pyramid as back home?

[SjaakNL2013]

According to the Dr. Freud Circel I am happy

but

the Heidrich Rectangle make that I can fly to the moon.

[Travel2003]

Interesting.

The question from OP was: So looking at the attached image where do you see yourself, and do you think moving to Thailand moved you on this pyramid?

Instead of simple answers (afraid of being ridiculed I guess), it released an avalanche with "hobby psychiatrists" trying to explain what Maslov really really really meant by using this the pyramid.

That's my personal psycho evaluation of this issue.

ohh, I'm late for my session.........

[TomTao]

I would slot into the esteem level, I believe that I meet most of the requirements of the top tier, except that I do have some prejudice.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SeabagsFull]

Moving to Thailand was sort of a test for me & helped to affirm my belief of self-actualization, as represented on Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

Interestingly, Maslow himself was subject to the morals of the day, which might explain why he linked morality as the ultimate goal of our growth. In truth, morality depends heavily on one's background, upbringing, & ... wait for it .. religious beliefs! This means that each person's personal pyramid can look different from everyone else's. For example, a common perview of Christians is that they feel they have a moral obligation to "cure" those who are not "saved." They genuinely believe what they are doing is moral, yet they cause more harm -- especially when pushing their perspective by force onto other cultures -- than good.

I have but a single moral rule, something which was echoed in the 1960s play, Hair: I have & will never intentionally harm another human being, except in the defense of myself, family, or perhaps someone else. It all comes back to karma .

[kannot]

is there a lower level?

[indyuk]

Before moving to Thailand, then 63 years of age I had fallen from the top of the Pyramid to the bottom. Now after another ten years in Thailand at 73 years of age I have floated back up to 'Esteem' where I hope I shall stay for the duration of my remaining years. It's really simple, at this stage of my life Thailand fits me like a glove and I trust that it always will.

[Khun Jean]

I don't fit in a 'box', and i don't fit in a 'pyramid' either.

I am much less of a 'mis'fit here in Thailand then in my country of birth and country of upbringing.

[Cheapcharly]

If you are really over the pyramid, you would not use so many "I", "I am" in your talk.

Since we are born, all we see is people focusing on themselves.... Stop to think about yourself once in your pity life of human being.

We are just a stomach on 2 legs...

Universe is 17billions year old, you represent nothing down here.

Remember! We are nothing.... (for now)

(see, I omit the 1st person).

[Swiss1960]

If you are really over the pyramid, you would not use so many "I", "I am" in your talk.

Since we are born, all we see is people focusing on themselves.... Stop to think about yourself once in your pity life of human being.

We are just a stomach on 2 legs...

Universe is 17billions year old, you represent nothing down here.

Remember! We are nothing.... (for now)

(see, I omit the 1st person).

No, you don't

[Forethat]

Still amused over the fact that some tend to believe Maslovs pyramid is some sort of rating or measurement that can be used to classify individuals. You cant BE on a level.

Time to start looking at Myers Briggs 16 personality types or something? Posts on here like "I am on this or that level in the pyramid" is like being asked what time it is and reply "Monday!"

[OldChinaHam]

GuestHouse

I for example can recall serious long term illness and being right their struggling on the bottom."

You know, Mr. GuestHouse, this is one of your better more introspective topics, though who did not already know you were a thinking man's man.

Interesting that you mention illness and being at the bottom. I have been there in the past, and only experience like this can teach one what the pyramid means at the visceral or gut level.

I recall a bum we students used to call Vent Man, because he sat on the vents near the U of P Hospital in the winter time. Some wiseasss actually wrote a story for The Almanac about this guy after "interviewing" him for a few days.

Most people here do not know what it is like to be on the bottom rung of the Maslow ladder. Probably even Maslow himself does not know.

I think it is better to be homeless in Thailand than sitting on a vent in the wintertime in Philly, any old day.

But I also think it is nice to have aircon, internet, and running water in Thailand, if you are a bit higher up on the pyramid.

I consider myself very blessed to be in Thailand, doing exactly what I truly want to do.

Who knows, in Thailand, maybe even I can become self-actualized.

We'll see.

Again: Nice topic, which I often think about, when I have nothing better to do then reminisce about the good old days, when we studied Maslow, and researched why chimps could never vocalize Thai, or any other human language.

Edited October 16, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[MJP]

Still amused over the fact that some tend to believe Maslovs pyramid is some sort of rating or measurement that can be used to classify individuals. You cant BE on a level.

Time to start looking at Myers Briggs 16 personality types or something? Posts on here like "I am on this or that level in the pyramid" is like being asked what time it is and reply "Monday!"

I'm somewhere between plankton and toaster.

[SeabagsFull]

GuestHouse

I for example can recall serious long term illness and being right their struggling on the bottom."

Interesting that you mention illness and being at the bottom. I have been there in the past, and only experience like this can teach one what the pyramid means at the visceral or gut level.

I recall a bum we students used to call Vent Man, because he sat on the vents near the U of P Hospital in the winter time. Some wiseasss actually wrote a story for The Almanac about this guy after "interviewing" him for a few days.

Most people here do not know what it is like to be on the bottom rung of the Maslow ladder. Probably even Maslow himself does not know.

I think it is better to be homeless in Thailand than sitting on a vent in the wintertime in Philly, any old day.

But I also think it is nice to have aircon, internet, and running water in Thailand, if you are a bit higher up on the pyramid.

I consider myself very blessed to be in Thailand, doing exactly what I truly want to do.

Who knows, in Thailand, maybe even I can become self-actualized.

We'll see.

Well said, OldChinaHam #47. I remember reading about a homeless man in San Francisco who had inherited over $700,000. He hired an accountant to handle his money & chose to continue living on the streets. He drank heavily, & for some reason, found his "happiness" in the shadows. Whenever he wanted some money, he'd visit his accountant. There was one spell where he found a girlfriend & stayed in a hotel for a month, then he was back on the street again. So where is he on Maslow's pyramid?

I too suffered an illness & found myself not thinking or philosophizing about much of anything. I like the Buddhist way of trying to find the good in things & not focus on the suffering, kind of like looking for a silver lining in everything. So was I -- or you -- really near the bottom?

I remember studying about Abraham Maslow's Humanism versus B.F. Skinner's Behaviorism in high school. Maslow's idea (mid 20th Century) was that we can all evolve to a higher state of existence if we're allowed to explore ourselves & the world around us, while Skinner held that, with a whip & a carrot, he could indoctrinate any child to grow up in a way society thought best. You can see examples of Behaviorism all across the planet, from Islamic struggles to American politics to police forces in nearly every country.

I recall thinking that, if someone held Abraham Lincoln's head under water with a knife within his reach, would he stab his oppressor in the head if that were his only target? If so, would that mean Lincoln suddenly was catapulted to the bottom of the pyramid, his "need" being at the lowest hierarchical point?

I'm not smart enough to judge Maslow's work, but I do think he was -- had to be -- influenced by the norms of the time. With Elvis Presley making his name in the U.S., & absolutely no one (other than Communist sympathizers who fearfully remained quite) questioning the wisdom of whether or not God existed (hell, President Eisenhower even got Congress to make "In God We Trust" the national motto), I believe Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs might look different had he created it today.

[benalibina]

The pyramid.

Where am I ? Gotta say, i truly dont know. Truly dont. On a way touching every side of it. Financially i am at the bottom, just surviving. Need(ed) to reflect alot about myself. Why i am who i am. That reflection was/still is, painfull. On a way i am mentally very strong but emotionally very weak. I found out. I have had my life ran by emotions after a near fatal heartattack 14 years ago. Has changed my outlook on life. After that heartattack my mum was taken into a caringhome 6 months later. Saw there daily for 2 years the elderly people who were totally dependant on others. The end of life !! Had a bitter taste from that to see how professionals treat the elderly there.

The phase now is dreadfull most moments because i am faced with people close to me who oppose everything important i stand for in life. Not even angry about it. Feel sorry for them. So the phase i am in now brings, or is going to, me closer to my real self. The only thing which connects me still with thailand is the fact that my kids still live there. If not, i would be happy never to come back there anymore. Bygones would be bygones.

[Naam]

The answer is very much depending on your upbringing and on your personality (ego). "Basic life needs" as Maslow put it in his 8-level tree later in his studies depend on what you had in your childhood. The requirements for "social needs" (love, belongings) heavily depend on your personality, loners will require much less. Also depending on your personality, self-esteem might be more important so some people than love needs.

Yes, understood, but the question is not why, because there are as many why's as there are people - the question is 'where to individuals see themselves on the pyramid?'

i tried hard, but i don't see myself anywhere on this pyramid.

[farang000999]

Sex. Then Food.

Edited October 17, 2013 by farang000999

[canuckamuck]

I'd be over the top but the pointy part hurts me arse.

[xenophon]

This theory has long been discredited but still enjoys wide usage amongst pop psychologists. Aside from the obvious political implications (e.g. if you are very, very poor, you are incapable of philosophical reflection or not concerned about higher level needs), it is just plain neither valid nor useful - except for cosmo readers and such.

[OldChinaHam]

The answer is very much depending on your upbringing and on your personality (ego). "Basic life needs" as Maslow put it in his 8-level tree later in his studies depend on what you had in your childhood. The requirements for "social needs" (love, belongings) heavily depend on your personality, loners will require much less. Also depending on your personality, self-esteem might be more important so some people than love needs.

Yes, understood, but the question is not why, because there are as many why's as there are people - the question is 'where to individuals see themselves on the pyramid?'

i tried hard, but i don't see myself anywhere on this pyramid.

Maybe, you are inside the pyramid,

In one of the secret passages,

Formerly frequented by,

King TutenKamin,

Of Egypt.

[StreetCowboy]

This theory has long been discredited but still enjoys wide usage amongst pop psychologists. Aside from the obvious political implications (e.g. if you are very, very poor, you are incapable of philosophical reflection or not concerned about higher level needs), it is just plain neither valid nor useful - except for cosmo readers and such.

As I understand it, people start off using the internet for email related to their jobs; then, they use the internet to find out useful information; then, to bicker with strangers to make themselves feel superior, then, they start to use the internet as an environment in its own right to make friends and conduct business, until finally they cease to exist at all in the real world.

SC

Yerdedonthair, Cowboy!

[OldChinaHam]

This theory has long been discredited but still enjoys wide usage amongst pop psychologists. Aside from the obvious political implications (e.g. if you are very, very poor, you are incapable of philosophical reflection or not concerned about higher level needs), it is just plain neither valid nor useful - except for cosmo readers and such.

It is possible that you are underestimating the power of the concept. It is important to keep in mind that we can achieve more, collectively, if we stamp out poverty.

Just for example.

[Cheapcharly]

You are all on the troll pyramid.!

You are all in Thailand, because you hide yourself from feds!

[infinity11]

NOT directly thai related, but indirectly related (for me)

a very interesting question worthy of hours of discussion

before i even have a stab at it, i wonder did OP answer himself yet? no time to read all